In today's interview, Dr. Peter Angood explains why the best way to empower physician leaders is to join the American Association for Physician Leadership.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

American Association for Physician Leadership's Benefits

The 50-year-old AAPL was founded to empower physician leaders and managers. The evolution of healthcare has evolved and grown increasingly complex. And it is imperative that physicians assume leadership roles in all aspects of healthcare.

The range of services offered by the AAPL is quite impressive:

1. Strong and in-depth information sources (journals, newsletters, and archives);
2. Webinars, Podcast Series, and 85+ educational courses;
3. The Certified Physician Executive Credential; and,
4. Access to advanced business degrees with 5 Universities and 7 Master's Degree specializations.

The benefits of membership are supported by dedicated employees and an excellent technical platform. And the organization provides 350 to 400 educational programs each year.

Importance of Certified Physician Executive

The CPE provides certified physicians with practical insights and a strong healthcare network. Acquiring the designation also requires at least a full year of meaningful experience in leadership and management work. Recruiters now recognize the value of the CPE and often list it as a desired credential in job candidates.

…some of the search firm consultants out there, if they're honest with you, they'll tell you [they] would rather have a candidate with a CPE than a candidate with a master's program.

Summary

Joining the AAPL will help surround you with other physicians already working in management and executive leadership roles. By networking with other members, you will find mentors and coaches to help you follow your leadership path.

By attending live or online courses, you will develop your business and management skills, while demonstrating your commitment to leadership to practice partners and current and potential employers.

If you pursue the CPE and or fellowship, oyo will distinguish yourself as a recognized physician leader.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

• American Association for Physician Leadership
  • CPE Program
  • Masters Programs
  • Fall Institute
  • Physician-Mapped Leadership Assessment & Development Tool.
• How a Great Physician Executive Combines QI Expertise with Strategic and Operational Skills – 198
• Are You Ready to Become a Certified Physician Executive? – 219
• 5 Steps I Took to Be a Hospital Executive – 175
• Advice for an Emerging Physician Leader – 032
• Dr. Peter Angood's email address: pangood@physicianleaders.org
• NewScr!pt

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 264

What Is the Best Way to Empower Physician Leaders?

- Interview with Dr. Peter Angood

John: I've spoken about the AAPL many times on the podcast over the past five years mainly because it was a big part of my career transition. I was working as a physician advisor and a little bit of medical directorships and joined the AAPL. And eventually it really helped me to pursue my job as a chief medical officer for a hospital. I thought I would devote an entire episode to this topic today, the American Association for Physician Leadership. And who better to have on as a guest than the president and CEO of the organization, Dr. Peter Angood. So hello, Peter, it's nice to have you on the podcast.

Dr. Peter Angood: Hey John, thank you so much. And I very much appreciate the opportunity and I look forward to our conversation.

John: This should be fun. We're going to give it about 30 minutes or so. There's so much. The organization is really very complex and has a lot of offerings, but before we get into the details of the AAPL, how about just a thumbnail sketch of your background and how did you end up there at the organization?

Dr. Peter Angood: Oh gosh, thank you for the opportunity. I'm a surgeon by background. I spent a better part of 25 years in the academic side doing trauma surgery, surgical critical care. And both of those are multidisciplinary and very systems oriented. So, as I got into mid-career, I found myself thinking more and more about how to create larger scale systems change as opposed to patient-by-patient hospital by hospital.

I was very fortunate as I made that shift, I became the first chief patient safety officer at the joint commission. And that was just one of those career opportunities that really opened my eyes to a lot of the intricacies of our industry and how complex healthcare is actually. I looked after all of the safety initiatives at the joint commission and we did a lot also internationally as well as a bunch of work with the world health organization. Again, that national international exposure was wonderful.

I did that for a number of years and then shifted over to the national quality forum and looked after their safety initiatives and NQFs are all about measurement and how do we get better measurement tactics inside of healthcare. I spent a very brief bit of time with GE Healthcare looking after their patient safety organization.

So, a little insight to the for-profit side of life, but those experiences, John, made me really appreciate that it's all fun and fine to be doing policy development and deployment and all that sort of stuff. But those organizations often didn't have enough physician insight as to really how to deliver care. Take GE for example, a multi-billion-dollar international organization and their true appreciation of how healthcare is delivered from a physician perspective, if you will, was absent.

After those experiences and my ongoing desire for trying to create larger change, I was looking for an opportunity to work in that gap zone, if you will, where I'm still involved and aware of what's going on at that policy level, but also strongly connected to the front line. And I was very fortunate to be chosen as the successor CEO. AAPL at the time was the American College of Physician Executives. The organization is nearly 50 years old now, and I've been here about 10 years and it's been just a wonderful journey in the organization. Truly does sit right in that gap so it influences the policy side, but also very strongly tied to the frontline.

John: Yeah. It's grown, it's morphed over the years. And so, we're glad to have you there. It's been awesome since you've been there these last 10 or so years.

Dr. Peter Angood: Out there. Yeah.

John: Yes. Why don't you give us in a nutshell what the AAPL is? If someone is listening that never heard of it or maybe has heard of it, but has really not looked into it. What is it? What does it do? How does it help physicians with their career advancement?

Dr. Peter Angood: Sure. Well, as I mentioned, it's nearly 50 years old as an organization and the originating CEO, Roger Schenke was a clear innovator in his own right back in the day. And he ran the place for 35, 37 years. And almost I think created the whole concept of physician executives, physician leaders.

While he was running the ship, wound up with a strong constituency of physician leaders who mostly were mid-career, mostly looking at administrative roles in hospitals. And the pinnacle was you get to be a CMO. And yet healthcare's continued to evolve, as you said, in the opening, healthcare's very complex as an organization and so we've become more complex. And as we've been transforming the organization from Roger's beginnings, we really took a different philosophy and that is our society as a whole really continues to look at physicians as leaders.

And the medical profession is still by and large, strongly trusted, and the medical profession is a lead profession. I've taken the philosophy at some level, all physicians are leaders and how do we help physicians embrace that? It's like a responsibility, but it's also a privilege. And so, we're really all about that leadership development, but also professional development along the entire trajectory of a career.

We've expanded and diversified the variety of things that this organization offers. So, we've got very strong and deep information resources. We run a couple of journals, a number of newsletters. We've got a great archive. We've got webinars. We have our own podcast series, had some great guests on that, but then as well, we've obviously continued to expand our educational offerings. We have 85 plus different courses. We have our certified physician executive credential, which is an industry recognized credential. And then you can continue on to become a fellow of the organization. And that's not an automatic, you got to earn the fellowship, all those sorts of things.

And then as well, we have partnerships with five universities and offer seven different master's degrees in there. We've got a large community as you might well expect, and we've got a terrific technical platform to support all of this, the information resources, the education, the networking, the community.

And what a lot of people don't appreciate is that we also do a lot of institutional organizational work. As those of us who are physicians know there's a long-spotted history of the medical staff versus the general administrative staff of hospitals. And they don't always get along. But with the employment trends in about a half of physicians are now employed, many of them by hospitals and health systems, what we're finding is that those institutions are looking for ways to better integrate and engage and to get physicians into leadership roles. And the traditional HR offices are not necessarily all that good at that.

And so, we are working with a good number of institutions. We probably put on 350 - 400 programs a year with different types of organizations to help them with not only the physician leadership pieces, but how to better manage with their medical staff and that whole interface as well. And that's been just wonderful.

And then, yeah, there are a couple of pieces within the international arena. There are not that many countries that have similar organizations such as ours. There are maybe 12 or 14, and they all tend to view us as that best organization, sort of best of breed type of thing into that. And we were just doing some analytics on some of our website stats and purchasing stats. And could you believe this, John? There were 135 countries represented who had been poking around on our website and trying to sort things out. Physician leadership is strong, we're strong and it's just a privilege to be in that role where people want to learn more about it. It's a new era for physician leadership. It really is.

John: Yeah. Things are always evolving. And yeah, I think I've definitely spoken with physicians from other countries and they're looking for assistance in thinking about what direction their career should go and how to get more exposure to leadership and management principles and working together with teams and so forth.

Now, the last thing you mentioned in that whole long litany was working with these organizations. Now I'm kind of thinking some of that with the medical staff is like dealing with let's say burnout and resilience. Does that get into that? Because that seems to be something that's in big demand.

Dr. Peter Angood: Oh yeah. And all those of us that have been in this profession, we all know burnout was happening before the pandemic. The pandemic has brought it forward. The stats are horrible. And yet the way I view it, physicians are resilient as a breed. We got these incredibly long education tracks and then that whole startup of your practice. And so, to walk around telling physicians to be more resilient is kind of a lost cause in my mind.

John: You are talking my language there. We are already resilient.

Dr. Peter Angood: We are.

John: To deal with these other issues.

Dr. Peter Angood: And that's the point, John. It's those other issues, the systems and processes that create frustration that then lead down to the anxieties and the stressors and take this job and shove it kind of attitude that shows up sometimes. And our approach is really kind of in a few different ways. One is clearly there are some individuals who are truly burnt out and they need some assistance and they have to be helped and it's unfortunate, but that's just a reality.

John: True.

Dr. Peter Angood: But we also have to help organizations appreciate and understand that improving their systems and processes will go a long way to improving workforce wellness. And then the third piece therefore then is how to help the physicians in other healthcare professionals to understand better that systems change takes time. Don't just sit and complain about it, but look for ways to engage, help to create more change in the systems and processes. And that will help with sort of an improved awareness of why you're feeling frustrated. And it gives you a longer-range view on things.Because of the respect that the physicians get in organizations inherently and the medical profession as a whole, if we have a strong responsibility to engage in trying to help all of the organizations, whether it's our private practice, our hospital, our post-acute care systems, help them all because folks tend to listen to physicians. So, it's a wonderful opportunity to help abate the burnout by taking that broader based approach.

John: That kind of ties in with something we were talking about before we went live or went on the recording. And that is how the AAPL, although it's an organization for physicians run by physicians, you told me that we were kind of getting involved with other nonphysician components of the system.

Dr. Peter Angood: Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up, John. For a number of years now, multi-professional team-based care has been out there. And a lot of it started in ICUs and emergency departments, transplant programs, all those sorts of things. And so, it's natural that leadership begins to become more interprofessional as well. And as many of your listeners will recognize there's dyad models and triad models. Some of them work, some of them don't. All those sorts of things.

But what we're recognizing in our institutional programs is that as much as 20% - 25% of the participants are actually nonphysicians and organizations are looking more and more for physicians to be the CEO of places. And in that type of setting, obviously then that interprofessional leadership is critical. For those organizations that are more progressive, they're very much encouraging interprofessional leadership. And so, physicians are like "Hey, we're trained and we like being the boss of the team." That's a cool thing, but that's shifting and you can be a strong contributor of a team without having to be the leader of the team.

John: Yeah. That's something that I was not aware of. The extent to which the AAPL was getting involved in that component. So that's awesome. I do want to go back to something you mentioned briefly earlier and you were talking about the different programs and that's the CPE, because I get a lot of listeners who ask about, "Should I get an MBA? Should I get a CPE?" And then I kind of explain what that means. But why don't you give us your take on that? What is the CPE? Who would benefit from it and maybe even how that ties into the MBA and similar business degrees?

Dr. Peter Angood: Yeah. Let's state the other obvious upfront though first, and that is unfortunately medical schools and residency training programs still pretty much do not offer any leadership education or management training. It's gradually shifting a little bit, but that's still going to take a good number of years before that's more common within the undergrad graduate and postgrad areas.

In many ways then AAPL functions as this bridge organization. And as we've said, both of us, healthcare's a complex industry. There are still phenomena occurring. You seem to be a good person, patients like you, your results are pretty good. Your peers seem to like you, congratulations. You're the new CMO here. And you have no background experience. You're holding this high responsibility, high stakes job. How the heck am I going to do this?

So the reality is in this day and age, is that for those individuals who are wanting to help create more change, want to get engaged creating change, you pretty much need some further education and certainly more experiences, whether it's committee work, project work, et cetera. You got to figure out this new arena of leadership and management and how best to fit in there. And again, as we said a few minutes ago, you don't just get to go in and do the command-and-control thing that we've trained to do. So, that takes a new skillset. And as I said at the beginning, it's been 15 years since I've been in the operating room as a trauma surgeon, but I'm still unlearning all that behavior as a trauma surgeon.

John: Yeah, it's different.

Dr. Peter Angood: It is different. I go through all of that to answer your question finally. With the need for some added education, you can do some fundamental stuff and you can do a variety of courses, but we've recognized and for 20 plus years have had this certified physician executive credential. And that is now about 170 hours of coursework. Majority of it is sort of prescribed and there's about 20% of it is elective time.

And then at the end of that 170 hours, there's a three-, three- and half-day capstone weekend, which uniformly is transformative for the people that come in and participate. And the way we view the CPE is different than a master's program and it's very complimentary. And we have had several individuals who've got master's degrees come through the CPE program, do the capstone event and they'll off say, "Darn, I wish I knew about this CPE program before my master's because it's so much more practical, so much more real and it provides me the better tools in which to really do my job." Master's degree programs are great and that's why we offer some. But often as we all know, they're more theoretical, not necessarily healthcare based. And they'll give you a good construct of some of the higher learnings needed to manage and lead, but they don't give you that practical insights. And they don't necessarily give you a strong healthcare network either, which is the benefit of the CPE.

So, you need something, the higher performing organizations that are looking to recruit physicians into leadership roles are often looking for advanced degrees of some sort. And I would love to say that the CPE trumps everything else. No, it's complimentary to those master's degrees. And I can't think of an individual who's taken it that's been disappointed.

John: Not everyone actually completes it when they start it because it is rigorous and it does require some demonstrated performance at the end in terms of what the goals of the program are. Correct?

Dr. Peter Angood: Correct. Yes, absolutely.

John: And by the way, I've mentioned this before in the podcast, I do see that the CPE is sometimes mentioned in job postings for physician executives which is very interesting. And it's been several years that that's been true. So, it really shows that it's a separate complimentary demonstration of one's expertise and experience because like you said, MBA is like book learning. I mean, unless you've actually done it. And I think the CPE also requires at least a year's experience doing some kind of leadership and management work. So, it really shows to those recruiters that there's a different level of ability and expertise there.

Dr. Peter Angood: Yeah, you're absolutely right. That by the time you get to capstone, you've got a well reformulated leadership philosophy, you'll have had to do a project and you will have had to have some experience as you describe. And a dirty little secret, some of the search firm consultants out there, if they're honest with you, they'll tell you I would rather have a candidate with a CPE than a candidate with a master's program.

John: I want to mention before we get to the very end actually the website for the AAPL, which is physicianleaders.org, correct?

Dr. Peter Angood: Correct. Yes. And fresh news. By the time you put this podcast out, I think our new fresh-looking website will be up too. So, I'd encourage folks to have a look.

John: We'll have to all go and take a look at that. Excellent. All right. Let's see. I want you to tease something out a little bit, because you said that CPE is complimentary. A lot of my listeners will ask me this question. "I want your advice. And it's probably difficult to give, but should I get an MBA? I'm unhappy in what I'm doing now. I'm doing some medicine, I'm thinking of moving into some kind of management position. Should I go get an MBA?"

Dr. Peter Angood: Yeah. We often tease. You give a physician a textbook on a weekend and by Monday he'll come back and he's an expert or she's an expert on whatever the topic was. So part of our reflex is to want to learn more.

John: Right.

Dr. Peter Angood: I think there's a deeper set of issues underneath that question. And it gets back to in part we're not exposed to leadership and management through our training, we are idealistic and altruistic by nature. And so, we're looking to create larger scale changes beyond our practice. Not everybody, there's a lot of docs out there perfectly happy seeing their patient volume every day and all that stuff and I commend that. I'm not saying you shouldn't do that.

But even if you're running a practice, you're a leader. The staff are looking to you, the patients are looking to you, your consultants are looking to you, et cetera, et cetera. And so, the onus is on us to sort of own the need to sort of improve our leadership and management as best as we can. And I think if we recognize that then as individuals, or even as a group practice, it's worthwhile getting everyone exposed at least some introductory elements of management, leadership, et cetera.

Organizations, especially the higher performing organizations, more and more are expecting all of their clinical leaders, whether it's a physician and nurse, et cetera, to have some type of added credentialing or education. And I've been told by some of our CPE folks who are strong believers in the CPE, but they're in recruiting type jobs in their delivery system. Their delivery system is like "Hey, you got to recruit the docs with a master's or some other added credential." And so, there's an industry expectation that's evolving.

Does that mean you got to have an itch to create change and go into leadership? You don't have to get a master. You don't have to get a CPE, but just know that the industry oftentimes is looking for something. So, you have to be able to explain your choices. And for time pressures, monetary pressures, family pressures, there's a lot of people who can't afford to do a master's or a CPE, but recognize you have to be able to explain that as you go.

John: Yeah. And there's no way around it, I guess. It's kind of a chicken and egg, but I would say that too, if you join the AAPL and start taking some courses, that demonstrates your commitment and that kind of ties in with the CPE later. What I was advised is if you can get some level of management or leadership job and then get that company to pay for the rest of your education at getting the MBA and or the CPE at the same time, that might be a way to go.

Dr. Peter Angood: Yeah. And what we're seeing more and more is the institutional are sponsoring those kinds of programs. And a little bit of a shameless plug but we've got our fundamentals cluster of courses. You don't have to do the CPE. And we've also got a series of what we call the academies, which are shorter segment focus types of offerings. So, there's the CMO academy. There's the quality academy, there's the safety academy, there's the finance academy. And those types of things can be shown as credentials. And again, to your institution, you're showing commitment to want to do more with leadership and management.

John: There's so many options at the association that didn't exist when I joined 28 years ago. It's great. It's a fantastic organization. So, let's see, if people have questions or are curious, number one, I know you're on LinkedIn, of course. So, if people just want to learn more about you and your background and so forth, again, I'm going to let you give us the website for the AAPL one more time.

Dr. Peter Angood: Sure, sure. It's www.physicianleaders.org. And if your listeners want to reach out to me either through LinkedIn, or you can catch me through my email address, which is pangood@physicianleaders.org. Also, if you're interested, we have a bunch of advisors that can help you sort of guide yourself in terms of where you want to go. And hey, we got a whole bunch of psychometric assessment tools out there as well. You can get a better sense of who you are and what you are. And our technical platform will really help guide you in many, many ways with recommendation engines.

John: The list of services keeps growing as we just spend another minute. So that was a question I was going to have before we close. A lot of physicians asked me about coaching and you said you have advisors at the organization. So how does that work exactly? Is that free if you're a member? Are there paid coaches?

Dr. Peter Angood: There's a spectrum of stuff there, John. The advisors I just mentioned are more staff who will help you understand AAPL better and how to navigate it. But we also offer a lot of professional development services and I neglected to mention that earlier and that's anywhere from we can help you build a better resume cover letter and LinkedIn profile. We can help you with interview skills. We have some mentorship matching and then as well we have a network of executive coaches for those who may want to pursue that line as well. And for some folk's coaching's very, very beneficial. It's shifting coaching. It used to be thought you're in trouble, you better get a coach, but that's not the case anymore. If you just want to get better at who you are, coaching can help. And we've got a nice network of those, but the mentorship is a good way to go also.

John: Yeah. The CEOs and CFOs have been using coaching for years and years, and it's definitely not a negative that's for sure. Okay. Well, that last bit you told me about was actually new to me as well. So, I really appreciate that. Well, we're at our time now, so Peter, this has been fascinating. It's the most in-depth review of the organization I've heard in a long time. So, I really appreciate taking the time and sharing that with me and our listeners.

Dr. Peter Angood: Well, thank you, John. It's been a real privilege to be here. It's a wonderful profession that we all have, and it's a complex industry and physician leadership is really on the forefront of helping to create the next stage of change in the industry. So, it's good stuff.

John: Absolutely. All right. Thanks Peter. And with that, I'll say goodbye.

Dr. Peter Angood: Bye John.

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The post What Is the Best Way to Empower Physician Leaders? – 264 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Today I will present factors affecting your decision to become a Certified Physician Executive.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

What Is the Business School Mindset?

Dr. Patty Fahy states that the BSM reflects these beliefs:

• “…graduates are assured that an MBA degree has prepared them to manage in any industry: a tattoo parlor, a government entity, or a hospital system (emphasis mine – JJ).
• “Managers are an elite caste, separate from those who are managed, monitored, and controlled.
• “Efficiencies gained by controlling the behavior of professionals and other workers garner financial rewards…
• “The principle that… an action is rational only if it maximizes self-interest…”

Not all hospitals are managed in this way, all of the time. But, when I was Chief Medical Officer, there were definitely times when I could feel the BSM “vibe” coming through… even though I worked at a non-profit hospital.

This leads me to believe that Business School Mindset leads to a different kind of BSM… Bulls**t Medicine. – Dr. John Jurica

To counter this, I implore my colleagues to pursue a career in hospital management. Such a career is intellectually stimulating, pays well, and is the only way we’re going to steer this industry in a new direction.

Getting Ready to Become a Certified Physician Executive

One way to accelerate your career progress as a leader is to become a Certified Physician Executive.

The Certifying Commission in Medical Management grants the Certified Physician Executive designation. It demonstrates to employers that the holder of the certification has the knowledge, skills, and core competencies to be an effective manager and leader.

Listeners have asked me to compare earning the CPE to obtaining an MBA. However, one should not compare the two, because the CPE can only be obtained after completing the MBA or equivalent business and management training.

Summary

There is evidence that employers use the CPE as a factor when considering job candidates. And there are several ways to meet the requirements for the CPE. But they all include getting the basic business and management education, plus real-world healthcare management experience. Physicians should consider several factors when deciding how to best acquire the CPE designation if they choose to pursue it.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

Links for Today's Episode:

• 3 Reasons to Pursue the CPE Qualification – 033
• The Ultimate Resource to Spark Your Transformation to Physician Leader with Dian Ginsberg – 024
• Certifying Commission in Medical Management
• Canadian Certified Physician Executive Website

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 219

Are You Ready to Become a Certified Physician Executive?

John: Today, I thought I would discuss another topic related to the pursuit of a job in hospital management. I mentioned this topic in a recent daily email and episode #33 of the podcast back in 2018.

Let me paraphrase what I wrote in the recent email related to this topic. It's really related to physicians working in the hospital environment, both as a clinician and then possibly as a leader. This is what I wrote about. I had read an article on Kevin MD by Patty Fahy MD. So, Dr. Patty Fahy. In it, she said that she was talking about BSM. It's an acronym for Business School Mindset. She thought I had a big impact on physicians and how they're working and the environment that they're in, which oftentimes is not very favorable.

The author, Dr. Fahy gives examples of the BSM mindset. Here are quotes from her article.

"Graduates are assured that an MBA degree has prepared them to manage any industry, a tattoo parlor, a government entity, or a hospital system. Managers are an elite cast, separate from those who are managed, monitored, and controlled. Efficiencies gained by controlling the behavior of professionals and other workers garner financial rewards. And the principle that an action is rational only if it maximizes self-interest".

Those are the characteristics that Dr. Fahy says represent BSM or the Business School Mindset. I don't know if all hospitals are managed in this way all of the time, but when I was chief medical officer, there were definitely times when I could feel the BSM vibe so to speak coming through, even though I worked at a nonprofit hospital.

This leads me to believe that the business school mindset leads to a different kind of BSM, what I call BS medicine. The approach that doesn't recognize a physician-patient relationship, or that puts quality safety and dignity behind the bottom lines. That's the BSM that I'm talking about. And I think we're caught in that. We're caught sometimes in that business school mentality and it leads to really miserable working conditions.

And so, the question is what are we to do? And I see three logical answers to that question.

The first is to keep working in the medical-industrial complex until we can't take it anymore and then retire. I think I've had a lot of colleagues that have done that. They've toughed it out and then just retired as soon as they could.

Number 2 is to leave for a nontraditional career, which of course, that's something that I talk about all the time.

And number 3, is to work your way into hospital management as either CMO, COO, or CEO and fix the system from within. And you probably already know that I'm partial to option number 3 because I believe we need a whole lot more physicians leading health care if we want to reduce both forms of BSM in our healthcare system.

Please consider a career in hospital management because it's intellectually stimulating, it pays very well and is the only way we're going to steer this industry in a new direction.

And by the way, as far as the income goes, I just went to salary.com today. And the median salary for a CMO is $418,000 with a range of $319,000 to $549,000. When I say it's lucrative, I'm really serious. It pays well over any primary care practice. And even for specialties, it's a much better lifestyle and you still make a good income.

One of the things that I'm convinced of is that if you want to consider a hospital management career, it's important for you to understand what the CPE is. That's what I want to talk about today. We all know what an MBA is. An MBA is a business degree. And then there is the MMM and MHA and other types of business degrees.

But the CPE comes up from time to time because it represents something that employers are sometimes looking for in the hospital setting. CPE stands for Certified Physician Executive.

As I was going through some CMO job descriptions before preparing for today's presentation, I looked specifically to see if the CPE was listed. And I found two hospitals in North Dakota and one hospital in Pennsylvania, just in a short review of the job ads that I saw. And they listed the CPE as a preferred designation. And the reason is that it represents something that puts the holder in a position perhaps a little bit better than simply having completed a business degree.

But the thing is, it takes more time and it takes some money to achieve. And so, I want to talk about this. And part of this came from a question that I received from a reader or listener back a few months ago, specifically asking whether I thought it was important to proceed with getting the CPE.

I want to try and answer that again. I addressed this, like I said, back in 2018, but let me bring things up to date today and really take a moment to walk through this for those of you that might be interested. This is how I look at the CPE as compared to an MBA. And it's not a fair comparison, I'll explain why in a minute. And these are my thoughts. These are my opinions as a holder of the certification and a former CMO and a member of the American Association for Physician Leadership, which is the AAPL, which originally created the certifying commission in medical management to create and to provide the designation of CPE.

Keep in mind, I am not speaking for the AAPL, although I've been a member of the AAPL for more than 25 years. And I have actually been involved in several of the committees that are involved with evaluating those that are sitting for the CPE, so to speak, by participating in the capstone.

Let's back up and talk about some definitions, and then we'll get into some more detail on this.

What is the CPE? The Certified Physician Executive designation. It's granted by the certifying commission and medical management. And it's designed to show that the holder of the certification has the knowledge, skills, and core competencies to be an effective manager and leader.

And to me the CPE is valuable because it demonstrates that not only does a holder have that MBA training. Now, remember MBA is a degree. It's kind of book learning, but the CPE has the MBA or the equivalent degree or the equivalent training and demonstrates experience in management and or administration.

And also, has sat through what they call a capstone, which is an opportunity for these applicants for the CPE to demonstrate that they can apply all of these principles in real-life situations, rather than simply take some curriculum and pass a few exams.

Let me get into a little more detail on it. An MBA is granted like any other degree. You complete a certain core curriculum plus some electives, and it ensures a certain level of knowledge. It's usually finances, marketing. In the programs that address physician executive MBA, they do focus on things like healthcare finances and the situation that we find ourselves in, the business principles in healthcare itself. Some programs do have a mandatory project that gets completed during the term of the schooling. So that gives them a little bit of real-life application of what they're learning.

But again, I'm going to mention why the CPE is distinguished from that. Because the CPE requires not only the knowledge base, which you can get from an MBA and MMM, and MHA or a similar degree, but it also requires that you have at least a year of clear management and leadership experience that does not include running a small private practice. And it has to be in a setting where you're really in a matrix with lots of other people. You're interacting. You're applying your communication skills, your marketing skills, your finance skills in a real-life situation. And so, it's more than just the book learning.

And in fact, you have to get a letter acknowledging and attesting that you have demonstrated these skills that are being sought for the CPE during those activities. If you've served as a medical director for a year or two or three, or you've been a CMO already, or you've done other things, let's say chair of a big committee at an academic institution and you've had exposure to management, to finances, to HR issues, to legal issues, then you can qualify for the CPE.

And on top of that, then you also need to spend four days doing what's called the capstone where you're getting a little bit more education about some of these topics, just to pull it all together. And you're actually being assessed for your ability to communicate and to lead teams and other skills of that nature.

To compare the CPE to the MBA is not really valid. The MBA or its equivalent is required to be even qualified to request certification for the CPE. That's why it's different. It does give you a little edge. If you have the CPE, it indicates that these skills are demonstrated, and it gives you a little edge. As I said, there were at least three hospitals just to my 10-minute review earlier today that said that the CPE would be recommended or preferred.

If you're competing with two or three or four people, and they all have the equivalent of an MBA or an MMM or something like that, and you have the CPE designation, which really attests pretty well to the fact that you've got the skills and experience to apply those skills, then you're going to have a bit of an edge over those others. That is I think primarily where it comes in handy.

The other thing to keep in mind, though, when we talk about this is that you can meet the requirements without having one of those degrees. In a way, if you were going to get the MBA or the MMM, or MHA, anyway, my case was actually an MPH. I got some credit for that. Well, then that's fine. And you can use that as the basis for proceeding onto the CPE if you're in some kind of leadership or management position.

But sometimes you can meet the same requirement by taking the equivalent courses through the AAPL. The AAPL is known for providing education and training and management and leadership for physicians since it was called the American College of Physician Executives.

They have a lot of ultra-high-quality courses that many physicians have taken. You can use this alternative pathway. Many hospitals and health systems provide leadership training through the AAPL, or physicians themselves will seek the training on an as-needed basis through the AAPL. And so, they do these courses and over time, there is a core curriculum through the AAPL, that if you accomplish that, then you've basically shown that you have the equivalent book learning that would be obtained through the MBA or other similar degree.

You can think of different scenarios here. If you've already taken, let's say one half to two-thirds of the CPE coursework through the AAPL, it may definitely be quicker and less costly to simply complete the curriculum through the AAPL than to enter an MBA program and spend $50,000 - $70,000.

I'm not saying that the AAPL courses are cheap, but even if he had to do another 5 or 6, 7, 8 courses, it's going to be much quicker and less expensive than matriculating in a business degree program.

The other thing to keep in mind is that sometimes the AAPL, or actually the certifying commission on medical management, which grants the CPE will accept courses done for a business degree that maybe you didn't complete. That's the other way that that can be effective.

You want to be efficient. You want to use and get the information you need. But there is no reason if you've already taken a course in healthcare finance to take another course in healthcare finance as part of your MBA or vice versa. You should be able to get credit for that in whichever direction you go.

It can be complicated. If you find yourself in a situation where you have some of the AAPL courses and you're contemplating going to a degree program, then you would check with the degree program, see if any of those courses would apply to the degree, and then you might get a reduction in your tuition, and it would speed things up.

And vice versa, if you've done let's say six months on a business degree, and now you've already got some other AAPL courses and you want to apply for the CPE, you can find out if those courses from the other business degree would apply to that.

There are certain business degrees that are aligned with the AAPL. For example, the master of medical management is a specific program geared for physicians only. And there was a lot of overlap in the content of the MMM and the courses through the AAPL.

So, you would want to really ask both sides of that if it would apply. In other words, you would check with the AAPL. They have a career or education department that will tell you if you've done some of the work for the MMM that would apply for the CPE if let's say you decided to finish it up with the AAPL courses.

Now, if I was just getting started, I would investigate my options. I would look at the cost, the location, the time commitment, and I would just figure out which one is the most efficient way to go. If you haven't been exposed to any of those, then you can make a valid decision.

On the website at the AAPL, which I'll put a link to in the show notes, for those that are listening to this on the podcast, you can go there and it will give you pretty clear which direction to go in. And it explains which of the business degree programs have courses that would cross over, or which ones would accept the AAPL courses.

Again, to find out for sure, it'd be best to check with staff at the AAPL. I think if I were starting out, this is like the master plan you might have in your mind if you were going to do this. I would look around, find a good low-cost convenient option to get your business degree. I would probably go to something like the University of Illinois, or even a smaller public university.

There's one nearby that's called Governor State University. And I know many people that have gotten their MBA through that. It's a four-year college. It's not a big-name college, but you get the MBA. And then if you want to go ahead and move on to the other requirements for the CPE. And then while you're doing that, you should acquire some clear management experience either by finding a paid medical director position, being on one or two really important, big committees where you're involved in big projects, let's say in a hospital.

And that way, when the degree is done, or the coursework is done, then you'll have the management experience. And then you can apply for the capstone and things will move forward very smoothly. If you get the MBA, but you really don't get any management experience in the meantime, you can't apply for the CPE.

Before I go, I do want to mention, I found this just recently. I didn't know this existed, but there's something called the Canadian Certified Physician Executive - CCPE. I don't know that it's exactly equivalent to the CPE that we're talking about today, but I know it does exist and you can look that up online. I will put a link in the show notes, again, for those who are listening to the podcast.

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Disclaimers:

Many of the links that I refer you to are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you.

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post Are You Ready to Become a Certified Physician Executive? – 219 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

This week on the PNC podcast, John discusses the importance of treating your practice like a business with business coach and consultant Dr. David Norris.

Background

David also describes his journey to financial consultant, author of The Financially Intelligent Physician, and business sales broker.

Throughout his clinical training, David was always fascinated by the financial and business aspects of running a practice. He asked his teachers and mentors about this, but was told that he would learn those things during his residency.

After completing his residency, David joined a practice and worked his way up to partner and then board member. Once he was privy to the financial workings of the business, he questioned some of the business decisions. But he was not informed enough to know what to do about them.

“I had eighty-something families depending on me to make good financial decisions.”

Dr. David Norris

However, he continued to study and learn. And he decided that he needed to get a real grip on the business side of running a practice. So, he pursued his MBA at Wichita State, filling in most of his knowledge gaps.

Business Practices

While working on his MBA, David created a survey and sent it out to physicians to gauge their financial knowledge. He quickly realized that many doctors did not have a good grounding in finance, despite owning and managing their own practices.

From the survey feedback, David identified three key areas in which physicians lacked expertise:

1. Financial intelligence,
2. Negotiations, and,
3. Change management and process improvement.

He recognized a real need for physician-focused financial and business training and began producing educational materials. This led him to start speaking on the subject, and taking consulting gigs while still practicing.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country, with over 650 graduates. Unlike other programs, which typically run 1 – 1/2 to 2 years, this program only takes a year to complete. And Economist Magazine recently ranked the business school #1 in the world for the Most Relevant Executive MBA.

University of Tennessee PEMBA students bring exceptional value to their organizations. While in the program, you'll participate in a company project, thereby contributing to your organization.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations. And they've become entrepreneurs and business owners.

By joining the University of Tennessee physician executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to advance your career. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office by calling (865) 974-6526 or go to vitalpe.net/physicianmba.

Writing the Book

David had been thinking about writing a book on finances for physicans since receiving the results of the survey. A few years into doing consultancy work, he formed a training company with three associates, and recognized the need for good training materials.

“I would save all your money and spend it on the editing.”

Dr. David Norris

This was the impetus for his book. David dedicated himself to writing the book and completed it within a year, carving out one hour every day to devote to it. Recognizing this as a niche market, he decided to self publish through Amazon, with good success. Looking back, David noted the importance of spending money on good editing.

The publishing of the book was a catalyst for David's consulting career. He decided it was time to commit to being a business coach and consultant and he formed an LLC. He wanted to go part-time in his clinical work to support that. Unfortunately, staying on part-time at his practice was not an option.

To complicate things, David was offered an opportunity to set up a perioperative clinic. While he was tempted, it did not line up with his mission and purpose. So, he left his practice and took a part-time position so he could focus on his consulting.

Becoming a Business Coach and Consultant

Consulting now takes up most of David's time, although he still practices clinically. Through his consulting, he was also introduced to the world of mergers and acquisitions. The Vista Group, an M & A brokerage, recognized his acumen and brought him in as a partner to handle their healthcare division. In addition to consulting and practicing part-time, he oversees the buying, selling, and funding of medical businesses.

Click here to download the Free TRANSCRIPT

 

Asked about his perfect career balance, David acknowledged that he would still like to cut down on his clinical work further, with more hours for mergers and acquisitions, and the majority spent on his consulting business.

“My mission and purpose is to help my fellow physicians become stronger through business education.”

Dr. David Norris

Before our interview ended, David had a few key pieces of advice for any of our listeners that want to pursue a new career or find other sources of income:

• Even if you're passionate about your niche, make sure there is a market for it.
• State a clear mission and purpose.
• Develop a business plan.
• Don’t be afraid to get help. 
• Admit your weaknesses, and don’t think you know everything about building a business.

Summary

David's discovery that most physicians do not fully understand how to run a practice properly is probably not a huge surprise to most of you. Physicians are trained thoroughly on medical concepts, but not the mechanics of running a business.

Thankfully, there are growing numbers of consultants like David to support physicians in making good business decisions. If you are interested in learning more about managing your practice as a business, or becoming a business coach and consultant yourself, David is happy to share his experiences. You can connect with him via his website using the links below.

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Links for today's episode:

• David's Website
• David's LinkedIn
• The Financially Intelligent Physician (affiliate link)

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Thanks to our sponsor…

Thanks to the UT Physician Executive MBA program for sponsoring the show. It’s an outstanding, highly rated, MBA program designed for working physicians. It might be just what you need to prepare for that joyful, well-paying career. You can find out more at vitalpe.net/physicianmba.

I hope to see you next time on the PNC Podcast.

If you enjoyed today’s episode about this business coach and consultant , share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

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Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton.

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Disclaimers:

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life or business. 

Many of the links that I refer you to, and that you’ll find in the show notes, are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you, that I have personally used or am very familiar with.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. It should not be construed as medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counsellor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

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The post How to Be a Shrewd Business Coach and Consultant – 111 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

For this interview, I found an expert at a firm that’s focused on recruiting physician managers, directors and executives for hospitals, medical groups, health systems and managed care companies. In the future, I hope to talk to someone who is focused on other fields, such as utilization management firms and pharmaceutical companies.

An Expert Physician Recruiter

Paul Esselman has spent more than two decades helping to recruit physician leaders.

Paul is Senior Executive Vice President and Managing Director of Cejka Executive Search, a nationwide leader in executive search, specializing exclusively in the health care industry for over 35 years.

Photo by rawpixel on Unsplash

As Managing Director, Paul provides strategic oversight and operational direction for the Cejka Executive Search team. He provides client consultation for senior-level executive search engagements focused on C-suite positions, and organization development, and succession planning strategies.

For our purposes, Paul is an expert recruiter of physician leaders in a variety of healthcare settings.

Paul Esselman Did A Great Job Answering My Questions

Paul describes his role at Cejka Search. Then he explains that Cejka recruits both clinical physicians AND physician executives. He provides an overview of the types of organizations he works with, and the positions to which he is likely to be recruiting.

I heard some interesting insights into the way the demand for certain types of positions, such as Chief Medical Officer, Chief Clinical Officer or Chief Strategy Officer have changed over recent years.

According to Paul, many organizations are beginning to devote more resources to developing leadership talent within their organizations.

We spent time digging into the topic of physician salaries, and Paul was fairly forthcoming about that. Most of you will see an increase in your overall salary and benefits, unless you’re in a procedural or surgical specialty and are very busy.

Photo by Jens Johnsson on Unsplash

He explained his opinion about advanced business degrees and the potential benefit of completing the CPE (Certified Physician Executive) designation. These topics have been discussed previously in My Interview with Dr. Kate Atchley and 3 Reasons to Pursue the CPE.

We spent a few minutes talking about the need for good references, and the appropriate references to solicit. And he emphasized the importance of working with a mentor and developing a 3- to 5-year career plan.

Contact Mr. Esselman

You can reach Mr. Esselman via email at pesselman@cejkasearch.com. And you can find current positions posted at the web site at cejkaexecutivesearch.com.

It’s a good idea to check there every couple of weeks to see how the job postings change.

And DON’T FORGET – you can begin your journey by following this podcast on iTunes. Please take a minute to leave a rating and review.

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If you liked today’s episode, please tell your friends about it and SHARE it on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn.

And join me next week for another episode of Physician Nonclinical Careers.

Right click here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Disclaimer:

The opinions expressed herein are those of me and my guest, where applicable. While the information published in written form and in audio form on the podcast are true and accurate, to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed herein will lead to success in your career, life or business.

The opinions are my own, and my guest's, and not those of any organizations that I'm a member of, or affiliated with. The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only and should not be construed as advice, such a medical, legal, tax, emotional or other types of advice.

If you take action on any information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult a professional, e.g., attorney, accountant, career counsellor, etc., before making any major decisions related to the subject matter of the blog and podcast.

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Where noted in parentheses, I receive a small stipend for referring you to a site, such as Amazon, where you may purchase a product discussed in a podcast, show notes or blog post. This does not affect your cost for the product. I only promote products that I have purchased, or used myself, or that respected colleagues have recommended.

The post What Do Recruiters Look For In a Physician Leader? with Paul Esselman – 041 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.