speaker Archives - NonClinical Physicians

Best First Resources to Use Before You Start Your Nonclinical Career Journey

John Jurica — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 12:45:08 +0000

Exploit These Free and Low-Cost Tools – Episode 322

In today's episode, John dives into a treasure trove of the best first resources for physicians to access when seeking to transition into a nonclinical career.

He covers a range of tools and guidance. They range from a comprehensive website to a nudge in the right direction, this episode is a starting point for your nonclinical career journey.

Our Episode Sponsor

This week's episode sponsor is the From Here to There: Leveraging Virtual Medicine Program from Sandrow Consulting.

Are you ready to say goodbye to burnout, take control of your schedule, increase your earnings, and enjoy more quality time with your family? You’re probably wondering how to do that without getting a new certification or learning a whole new set of nonclinical skills.

Here's the answer: The quickest way to achieve more freedom and joy is to leverage virtual medicine.

Dr. Cherisa Sandrow and I discussed this in Podcast Episode 266. Cherisa and her team are now preparing to relaunch their comprehensive program for building and running your own telehealth business.

If you want to learn the tools and skills you need to live life on your own terms – then you should check it out today. After completing the 10-week program, you’ll be ready to take your career to the next level.

The program starts soon, and there are a limited number of openings. To help you get a glimpse into the program, Sandrow Consulting is offering a series of FREE Webinars. Go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/freedom to sign up and learn why telehealth is the quickest way to begin your career journey.

Our Show Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete.

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Other Best First Resources to Help You

In this session, John provides an overview of fundamental resources for clinicians exploring nonclinical careers. He starts with books that address the process of career change head-on:

John recommends several podcasts and online communities. They provide practical advice, real-life career change stories, and platforms for networking:

Docs Outside the Box Podcast with Dr. Nii Darko
Career Rx Podcast with Dr. Marjorie Stiegler
Doctors Changing Medicine Podcast with Dr. Nneka Unachkwu
BootstrapMD – Physician Entrepreneurs Podcast with Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
Physician Nonclinical Career Hunters Facebook Group
Physician Side Gigs Facebook Group
Alternative Careers for Doctors Facebook Group
Remote Careers for Physicians Facebook Group

In addition to these resources, John mentions SEAK, an organization dedicated to teaching physicians about nonclinical careers. SEAK offers online courses, books, and an annual conference. The annual conference held in Chicago in October serves as a comprehensive resource for career changers, featuring informative lectures and face-to-face access to dozens of expert mentors.

Other Online Resources

John also touches on the emerging trend of physician coaching, recommending the website physiciancoaches.com, which provides a directory of physician coaches in various specialties.

There are also useful websites such as Doctors Crossing, by Dr. Heather Fork, and Dr. Heidi Moawad's website Non Clinical Doctors.

Lastly, John reminds us of online summits like the one offered by NewScript in April called the Nonclinical Career Summit. The annual Summit provides free live access to 12 lectures over 3 evenings at no cost. Afterward, the recordings are available for lifetime access for a small fee. The 2023 lectures are still available at the NewScript Nonclinical Career Summit website.

Summary

John explores an array of resources for physicians navigating their transition into nonclinical and nontraditional careers. These resources encompass everything from in-depth conferences to online summits and physician coaching services. It's a comprehensive guide for those embarking on their journey to nontraditional medical careers.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

Pivot by Jenny Blake (Amazon affiliate link)
Do You Feel Like You Wasted All That Training? by Michael McLaughlin (Amazon affiliate link)
Physicians' Pathways to Non-Traditional Careers and Leadership Opportunities, edited by Richard D. Urman and Jesse M. Ehrenfeld (Amazon affiliate link)
50 Nonclinical Careers for Physicians, by Dr. Sylvie Stacy (Amazon affiliate link)
Nonclinical Physicians Website
Physician Coaching Directory
Physician Nonclinical Career Hunters
Physician Side Gigs
Doctors Crossing by Heather Fork
Non Clinical Doctors by Dr. Heidi Moawad
From Here to There: Leveraging Virtual Medicine Telehealth Program by Sandrow Consulting
NewScript Nonclinical Career Summit website
NewScr!pt

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Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 322

Best First Resources to Use Before You Start Your Nonclinical Career Journey

John: This is the fourth session. I'm trying to be real consistent and do these every week at the same time. I was thinking about what I would talk about today if we didn't have a lot of questions. In the future, I'll try to come prepared with questions from those that are being sent by email or posted in NewScript. Otherwise, we can take questions during the session.

But today what I want to talk about is just an overview of some of the basic resources for clinicians who are looking to change careers. I'm going to focus on careers today. In NewScript, of course, we talk about a lot of different things from burnout to self-limiting beliefs, to starting a small business, to finding something else to do part-time. Today, I'm just going to look at some resources that are focused mainly for physicians that are applicable to those early in the process of career change.

I'm going back a few years because I've done some podcasts and I've written some blog posts on some of these issues. And the resources that I generally talk about are books and maybe courses. I don't think I'm going to touch on any courses today. Mostly low cost resources, podcasts that have been out there for a while, and other resources that I've come across.

I'm just going to get started with the books. Now, oddly enough, the first resource I'm going to talk about is not really geared to specifically clinicians or even physicians. But it's a book called "Pivot: The Only Move That Matters Is Your Next One." It's a book by Jenny Blake. It's been out for a few years. She might even have a second edition out. I'm not sure. I don't think so.

But I found that the model that she walks through for finding and pursuing your first major job when you've been, let's say, in a profession for a while, it's a really good model. It addresses some of the mindset issues. It talks about how to plant yourself first and doing assessment, things like your interest, your passions, and also something that you're good at, which in our case, most of the members in NewScript are good at very, very many things. But I do recommend that.

And by the way, I'm going to go through a lot of these resources today. I'm not going to type these in the chat as we go. But what I'll do is I'll put everything that I mentioned today just on a one page resource, and I'll send it basically to everybody. I'll just go into NewScript and I'll do a post out to everybody. And attached with that post will be this list of resources that I talk about today.

I like that book. Most of the books I'm going to talk about, I have copies of here to show you. And the video that we're doing today will of course be recorded and there'll be a replay. So you can look at the video, but I don't have all the books to show you because some of them, I have an only electronic version of it. That's the first one I want to mention.

The second one is another one that's been out a long time. And again, I can show you this one. I think it was the first one that I ever purchased and read by Michael McLaughlin. It's called "Do You Feel Like You Wasted All That Training? Questions From Doctors Considering a Career Change." It's actually written in a format of questions and answers. It's literally about 150 pages of questions and answers. Everything from the results of considering a career change, the emotional, the feelings that can engender in you and then where to look for options and so forth. It's a little bit dated, but again, I'll put that in the list, but it's a good one.

If you look up the name of the authors on these, you'll find these books. For the first one, if you look up Jenny Blake, you'll be able to find her book. They're all on Amazon. If you look up Michael McLaughlin, you'll find his book. So, that's a good one. That's a Q&A and that's a general one for physicians. That's why it's really good. It addresses not doing a specific career. He has a LinkedIn group, I believe. I think it's called PNR. Anyway, if you look up in LinkedIn, Nonclinical Careers, you'll come up with his LinkedIn group. It's been there for a while and there's a little bit of activity there.

Then another one, it's been around a long time, and it's also a little different in the sense that it's a little more of an academic approach, but with specific jobs. And they're split up in a more, like a university would kind of look at career transition for physicians and other clinicians. And it's called "Physicians' Pathways to Non-Traditional Careers and Leadership Opportunities." I think this one is a little less practical but it's still useful and it can give you some good ideas. I'll put that on the list.

Now, the other one that I don't have a physical copy of, but I've read it online. It's like an Amazon version of the book called "Careers Beyond Clinical Medicine", and it's by Heidi Moawad. If you look up Heidi Moawad, she's the one that went from clinical to a nonclinical job over a decade ago, maybe two decades. And she is a neurologist. She's one of the early people I talked to about going into a utilization management or case management type position. And so, again, if you look up her name, you'll find that she talks about specific careers. She did a lot of personal research. The book I mentioned before, the more academic one actually has multiple authors because each chapter's by somebody different. But Heidi Moawad, again, she's kind of seen as an icon. She also has a website called Nonclinical Doctors. But if you look up Heidi Moawad on Amazon, you'll find her book. It has some really good insights and a list of types of careers, which you can also find on her website.

And then kind of the more recent one that I consider the Bible of nonclinical careers now is the one by Sylvie Stacy, "50 Nonclinical Careers for Physicians." This is about as complete as you're going to get that has a list of the most common nonclinical careers. And she covers some areas that many of us don't touch on very often like jobs and government as a whole section on jobs and government, and a section on public health, which includes the CDC level and NIH and other government jobs. And then the state public health, and then the local county public health and everything in between.

But she has it broken down by insurance companies, hospitals and health systems, consulting jobs, medical writing, marketing and advertising. She even addresses some of the radio personalities, TV personalities. Everything is sort of described in there, some estimates of what the income would be, which are probably not that accurate just because even within a year or two these things get dated.

But it's definitely one that if you're looking for a simple low cost resource. You don't have to read the whole book, you just look in those sections that are pertinent. And the thing about this is, it was published by the American Association for Physician Leadership. You can get it there or I think you can get it on Amazon as well.

Sylvie Stacy used to run the Look for Zebras website, which she has since sold that had a lot of the same information, which has now been compiled into this book, which was published at least three or four years ago now.

I usually promote or mention a couple of other books of friends of mine, colleagues, who are actually both podcasters as well, and are well-known in the nonclinical career arena. One is called "The Positioned Physician." I have a copy, but I don't have it handy. It's by Michael Woo-Ming. You might know him better as again, a podcaster. And if you look up "The Positioned Physician", you'll see that he has a second edition out.

And it's really more about setting up either a cash only medical company, or clinic, and also starting a consulting or coaching business. And it goes through there and it talks about some of the practical things from the standpoint of business, but also some of the mental hoops to jump through before you do something like that. And as I said, he updated it just a couple years ago. The newest edition is out and it's not expensive.

The other one is by Dr. Andrew Wilner called "The Locum Life." And it's specifically for those who are looking to go into locum tenens work as an alternative to typical clinical work. Now, obviously it is clinical, just as Mike Woo-Ming's book talks about opening an aesthetic or weight loss clinic that's also clinical. But obviously, they're clinical in a way that basically avoids the issue of dealing with an office, dealing with billing, dealing with working for a large corporate structure.

As a locums doctor, you technically may often do that, but you're kind of at arm's length. You don't get involved in the politics. You usually get paid more because they're struggling to fill those slots and it's usually obviously a temporary position. That's another book that I would recommend.

Now the other thing I want to talk about is some other resources that are not books. Here are some of the podcasts that I would recommend you consider besides watching or listening to my podcast. Docs Outside the Box is interesting. It's not always about careers, but there's a lot about careers in there. And it started, oh, good six or seven years ago. A lot of episodes where he is interviewing people doing interesting things with their careers.

The other would be the Career Rx with Marjorie Stiegler. That is a really good one. Lot of advice and a lot about pharma because that's the industry that Marjorie is now working in. She is an anesthesiologist, but she's now working mostly in pharma and then producing the podcast. And she has several courses, which can be of benefit as well.

The other one I would mention is EntreMD by Nneka Unachukwu. She's been on my podcast two or three times. She has maybe more things, but if you look up Dr. Una, you'll find everything that she does. And she has some courses and she focuses more on enhancing your income of your practice, improving your practice, and then also nonclinical non-practice based businesses and so forth. She's really dedicated to helping physicians and other clinicians thrive and overcome burnout by just doing something that they love. And then I would also mention the podcast BootstrapMD, which is Mike Woo-Ming's podcast.

Sometimes when I'm talking about this topic, I'll mention coaches. There are a lot of coaches out there now, a lot of physician coaches who coach physicians. It's very popular, but it's in high demand as well. And I think that the coaches that I know the best are really either full or not really doing one-on-one coaching anymore because they just have converted to doing group coaching and courses and things. Because it's an easier way to leverage that instead of going one by one. But there are many individual physician coaches.

And there is a company or an online resource run by Mike Woo-Ming called physiciancoaches.com, which has about 300 or 400 physician coaches in there doing different types of coaching. If you want to look somewhere where you can go through and see what type of coaching they do, what their background is, what their experience is, for most of the coaches, there's that kind of information. I would suggest that.

There are Facebook groups, of course, that are dedicated to this. And there's actually probably a lot more now than what I'm fully aware of, but I know that Laura McCain's group, Physician Nonclinical Career Hunters, PNC Hunters. Physician Nonclinical Career Hunters. I used to be an admin for her for that group until a couple of years ago. I know that it has over 20,000 members. It's fairly active, which is nice because in the smaller groups sometimes there aren't any posts for quite a while. Between herself and the people in there, they're always asking questions. And then there's a lot of coaches that will jump into that. So, if you're not in Physician Nonclinical Career Hunters Facebook group, I suggest you consider joining it.

You can always go to Facebook and use some kind of a pseudonym. You don't have to put in information that will expose your identity to at least the members that are in the group. Now at the Facebook level, you might have to put information in there so that they'll have it, but at least it won't be out to the public. There are many people in that group that have strange kind of pseudonyms. So, that's one way to get around that issue. But there's a lot of information there. And Laura also posts things in there as files that you can access.

Nisha Mehta has Physician Side Gigs, which has been around a long time, and it's probably got close to 100,000 members. It's a very diverse group. I think it seems to be more dedicated to women, but either way it doesn't really matter. There's all that information there. So you can check that out. There's another group called Alternative Careers for Doctors. There's one by Jonathan Vitale called Remote Careers for Physicians. As its name implies, he and his members, which I don't know, I think it's well over 10,000 members now talk about mostly remote careers, but that could be a lot of things. I think the vast majority in that group are dedicated to utilization management type, insurance jobs for insurance companies, payers of various sorts. But it's a good one. It's pretty active and a lot of ideas come out of that.

There's a lot of resources on Heather Fork's website, Doctors Crossing. A lot of freebies that are very useful. Lists of let's say UM companies. I think that's it as far as the basics. So you've got your podcasts, you've got your books, you've got your websites of the coaches that I mentioned today.

Those are the main basic resources for those that are just getting started that need something to get them going. Of course, when you're in NewScript, you can post a question about anything and somebody will generally answer. And so, I guess that's all I wanted to talk about today.

All right, I see there's a question here about SEEK. It's very apropos, very timely, and I think the others who listened to the replay may benefit from that. In fact, it was funny because I had interviewed Dr. Savi Chadha, who's an MSL, and his posts, his interview is going to be posted this coming Tuesday. And he mentioned at some point in that interview that he was a faculty for SEEK, and basically he serves as a mentor at SEEK.

SEEK is an organization that is actually dedicated to teaching mostly physicians about nonclinical careers. And it kind of dates back to the very early days, way before I started my podcast. And in fact I used one of the SEEK meetings as a way to identify guests for the podcast, because what SEEK does is they produce online, and it used to be on CDs and tapes, booklets and so forth, but they produce these courses for physicians in particular who are looking to switch to a nonclinical job.

I don't know the backstory completely, but it is run by two or three partners, father and son, and another partner. They're all attorneys. And I think they got into it because they were getting involved in teaching physicians how to become expert witnesses, which was like a really awesome part-time job. Most people that are expert witnesses, of course, don't quit practice because usually they can't work as expert witnesses after that. There's a few exceptions to that.

Anyway, then they started doing courses on becoming an expert witness, and some of those are really awesome. They also created a large directory of expert witnesses that you can pay to be in, and they will send you business because other attorneys buy that manual.

But one of the major parts of their whole enterprise is this annual SEEK meeting, which is every October in the Chicago area. For people that know Chicago, it's in Rosemont at one of the big conference centers. It's not downtown Chicago, but it's actually relatively close to O'Hare Airport for those that fly in. But I live close enough that I can drive to it.

Anyway, the way it is structured, the main part is two days, and you have a big plenary session at the beginning. Everybody's in the room. There's some big name so to speak who speaks on a topic about looking for a new nonclinical career. I went there as a participant, not as a mentor or a presenter, but I've been there twice as a participant, mainly to meet the people that were doing the presentations. And the presentations are very good. They're like 40 minutes each, 40 minutes to an hour. And you have back-to-back lectures going on.

You've probably gotten the same flyer that I have, and I think they do one session at a time, so you don't have to choose. There might be some concurrent sessions going on, but while they're doing the sessions, like I said, it is over two days. They'll cover a good 20 topics more or less in pretty good detail.

You'll have some talking about how to go into consulting, how to become a UM physician advisor for an insurance company or a medical director, how to do expert witness work, what kind of jobs are there in pharma, and so on and so forth. So, it's actually a good resource. And you get a booklet with the slides from everybody, and usually each person's going to give you some resources like where to find the job.

It's not necessarily for someone who has a particular job in mind, because you'll probably only have one or two hours devoted to that. Let's say you want to go into pharma. But if you're still at the beginning and you're really trying to sort through what your options might be, and they'll oftentimes get into the salaries and they'll get into how would you apply for this job? How would you prepare for the job, and so forth? So, it's a really good intro.

It is going to be held in October and it might be worth it. You come away with a lot of information. And the other thing that I should mention before I let you go is that during the conference they have mentors. There's at least 40 mentors. That means people like Laura McCain and I don't know if Heather Fork still does it, but she used to do it. Michelle Reilly used to do it. And Tom Davis, my partner in NewScript, he used to do it. I don't think he's going this year.

There's a lot of pretty big names, people that have written books, some of the books I've mentioned. I think Heidi maybe has been there before. Like I said, that's where I went to get some guests. There's a lot of information. You get to sign up to sit down with each of these mentors for 15 minutes. It's really quick. And you're trying to squeeze these things in with the other let's say a hundred or so participants or attendees. You're going to the live ones, during breaks you're all trying to get into the mentors and sometimes you have to skip one or two of the lectures if you want, or maybe skip all of them on a given day so you can sit down with each of the different mentors, pick their brains about the jobs that they do or what they're talking about.

And so, I don't get any compensation for promoting it. I tend not to promote it actively very much anymore, but it's there and it's the only one like it that I'm aware of. And now here at NewScript, of course, we did a summit last April and we're probably going to do this again next April, which is an online kind of a version of that, but it doesn't have the mentorship, which is really a big piece of that conference. It'd almost be worth it being able to commiserate with 40 or 50 mentors while you're there.

I hope that's helpful. If you have any questions about that, you can contact me in NewScript or send me an email.

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The post Best First Resources to Use Before You Start Your Nonclinical Career Journey appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

How to Market Your Surgical and Nonsurgical Careers Like a Pro – 321

John Jurica — Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:35:07 +0000

Interview with Dr. David Geier

In today's episode, Dr. David Geier explains how to market yourself using a combination of social media posts and public speaking. David is an orthopedic sports medicine specialist who recently added integrative medicine to his clinical practice.

Dr. Geier first appeared on our podcast in August 2018, in Episode 49, as a groundbreaking orthopedic surgeon and sports medicine specialist. Since then, he's continued to innovate and has recently embarked on new clinical endeavors.

Our Episode Sponsor

This week's episode sponsor is the From Here to There: Leveraging Virtual Medicine Program from Sandrow Consulting.

Here's the answer: The quickest way to achieve more freedom and joy is to leverage virtual medicine.

Our Show Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete.

Surgical Career Evolution: Beyond Social Media

In the world of medicine, staying connected with patients and colleagues through social media has become increasingly important. Dr. David Geier, a seasoned medical professional, has masterfully harnessed the power of social media to enhance his medical practice. These are the strategies he employed to leverage social media effectively.

Content Creation and Engagement with AI
One of Dr. Geier's standout strategies is content creation. He recognized that a consistent flow of engaging content is vital to reach and retain an online audience. To streamline this process, he embraced AI tools, such as Copy.ai, to generate ideas for blog posts and content. By doing so, he ensured a regular output of valuable information for his followers.
Making Medical Information Accessible
He emphasizes the importance of making medical information accessible to a broader audience. Understanding that complex medical jargon can alienate the average person, he opts for clarity and simplicity. His content resonates with his target audience on social media.
Sharing Medical Advances and Insights
Dr. Geier doesn't stop at content creation. He uses social media to discuss advancements in the medical field. By sharing these insights, he positions himself as an informed and forward-thinking medical professional in the eyes of his audience.
Observing Trends
In addition to sharing his insights, David actively observes and acts on trends in medicine and social media. He observed the growth of integrative and functional medicine, as well as the growth in AI. This led to his making major strategic decisions about his practice and in his marketing efforts.

Shift to Preventive Medicine & Non-Surgical Care

David shared valuable insights on transitioning from a traditional medical practice to his focus on preventive medicine and non-surgical approaches. He emphasized the importance of staying well-informed about the latest research and treatments, as well as maintaining a strong commitment to patient care.

Embrace innovation and leverage technology, such as AI, for tasks like content creation. – David Geier, MD

Summary

To connect with David, visit his website at drdavidgeier.com. You can reach out to him via the contact form on his site. You can also find him on various social media platforms under the handle “drdavidgeier,” including X, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook, where he enthusiastically engages with fellow physicians venturing into podcasting and video creation.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

Download This Episode:

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If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 321

How to Market Your Surgical and Nonsurgical Careers Like a Pro

- Interview with Dr. David Geier

John: Today's guest first appeared on the podcast here in August of 2018. That was episode 49. That was a long time ago, and he was quite a groundbreaker then in terms of he was using social media, he had a podcast. He was using other platforms basically to market himself and his business and his practice. But since then, he has continued to do new things, break new ground and even sort of shifted his clinical activity a little bit. I definitely wanted to get today's guest back to the podcast. So with that, Dr. David Geier, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. David Geier: Oh, thanks for having me. I cannot believe it's been that long. I did remember that it was before COVID, but I just did not remember it being five years ago. That's scary how quickly time seems to pass.

John: Well, usually when people say that, it's because they're so busy, that it just goes by like that.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah, that's a good point. Absolutely.

John: Because I know you've been into doing a lot of different things. It's going to be great to hear about it. I don't want to reiterate everything that we said at the last, but give us a little thumbnail of back when you were in practice, why you jumped into social media and why your practice was really a little different from most other orthopedists in terms of connecting with patients. And then we'll get into the more recent stuff.

Dr. David Geier: Well, it was interesting way back in 2008 or so, I was running a sports medicine program at an academic medical center here in Charleston. And anybody that's worked in academics knows I'm trying to build a sports medicine program and I'm trying to work with marketing to get more exposure. We need dollars to get team relationships and various components to help us grow. But in academics, you have to go through all these different layers to then a lot of times get a "no."

But the person that worked that was spearheading musculoskeletal health and the musculoskeletal program at that program talked to me and said, "Hey I think you'd be great at social media." And this is back when really Twitter and Facebook were just starting. And she's like, "You should do a website and you should do Twitter and Facebook." And I had no idea like, "What in the world? I'm a surgeon. I cut on people, I stand on the sidelines at football games." And she's like, "No, I think you'd be great. I hear you talk to people about injuries."

And so, sort of clueless to the whole thing, I was like, "All right, I'll give it a try." Not knowing at all, one, how much time I was going to end up putting into it, but then how much I would enjoy sharing information, not just one-on-one with a patient, but one on a hundred, one on a thousand. Because it could be seen not just by tons of people, obviously, but at different points in time. They didn't have to watch it live. They could see it later. And so many people commented over the years and it ballooned into this thing because so many people went to see a doctor and they tell me, "I had no idea what he said. I didn't understand a word he said or why. That's the only option I had. And so your articles and your videos, or your podcasts like I used to do back then were so helpful."

And it sort of ballooned. You get this positive feedback and then you network with other physicians, in my world, athletic trainers and physical therapists. And it just became this community. And it just took off. It started as a way to grow that sports medicine program, but it very quickly peeled away from that a little bit and it turned into writing a regular newspaper column for the Charleston newspaper. It turned into very, very frequent TV interviews and radio interviews down here. And just so many different opportunities. Honestly, it took on a life of its own and became something that was taking me 20, 30 plus sometimes more hours a week and then I had to sort of navigate those challenges.

But I don't regret it for a minute. I feel proud that I was sort of on the leading edge of that. I will say that I've backed off a little bit. Not completely, we'll talk about that, but there are people that have taken that baton and run. But it was really, really cool that I got into it having literally no idea what I was getting myself into. But it turned into something that quite honestly, not only changed my career, but it changed my life.

John: Yeah. That's awesome. And I remember back in that episode, because I was listening back to it a little while ago, I think you had said at that point you had already done a thousand media presentations or jobs. I guess we're talking about vignettes and when people interview you or do something like that, right?

Dr. David Geier: Yeah. Well, it's probably over 3,500 now because now I'm the chief medical expert for two TV stations here. And I'm on every day, sometimes three, four times a day in recorded segments. But back then when it was one off things reporters would reach out to me. It was a lot of time. I don't regret it. I love communicating and doing interviews in Spokane, Washington and all these places. A lot of things I never would've guessed came of it. It's great. It still is great.

John: One of the questions I always get is, as a quote, whatever it is, as a dermatologist, as an orthopedist, can I really do that kind of thing? And I guess my question to you is, I don't think you're just talking about ortho, you're the resource for at least some of these places just for anything medical. Is that right?

Dr. David Geier: I don't get as much medical, even though I do get more of that now. And we're going to talk about my practice pivot here in a little bit. But I do get a little bit because people see me on TV and as my role as chief medical expert for those two TV stations, I'm talking about all kinds of medical topics. I probably do get more that way. But even online, I still focus primarily on orthopedics and sports medicine. But you're right, and I've heard this from other physicians that are active in social media. Once people become comfortable with you, whether it's watching your videos or reading your articles, it's just natural for them to say, "Hey, by the way, I've got X problem or X condition." And it does sometimes get away from what you do.

I've always found that interesting, that people reach out to physicians they don't even know. But they do know them in a way because they've spent time listening to a podcast, watching their videos, reading their articles. And I think there's something really valuable about that. I hear so many physicians talk about how much time they're going to put into it. But part of the reason so many of us went into medicine is to help people. This is just a different way to do that. It's not that one's better than the other. It's just a different way to reach people and help people.

John: Are you to the point now where so many people are reaching out to you or you're already committed to do these regular interviews or a short speech or something? Are you still promoting yourself in newer ways? Are you doing anything on social media or is that going in another direction? How's that going?

Dr. David Geier: No, that's a great question. Because I'm the king of "Try this, see if it works. If it works, keep doing it. If it doesn't work, bail." There's a whole lot of things that I have done for a little while and stopped. But then there's a lot of things I kept up with. One of my podcasts, the Dr. David Geier show, I think I got to like 420 episodes. Got it up to right close to COVID. And then I just decided "Hey, let's move on."

YouTube has been consistent for me since 2015 or something. I've got close to 100,000 followers. I've been very consistent there. But I've dabbled in a lot of things. I tried TikTok videos for a little while. I tried YouTube shorts and Instagram reels. I might go back to that at some point. It was a lot of work for something I wasn't feeling like I was getting that much out of.

I did try a podcast about a year and a half, two years ago. That was a live show that then I turned into a podcast. And that was a lot of fun to do, especially live. But it was a lot of work and I wasn't feeling like I was getting that. That's when I was trying to promote my new practice mode and it wasn't helping me there. So I sort of scaled that back. I might go back to that because I really like the live interaction that you can do now with live streaming and things.

There's a lot of different things that I've tried, but right now it's focusing YouTube mostly and then the traditional media that I do. I used to put on social media as well, but there gets to a point where if you create so much content, you sort of overwhelm viewers, overwhelm readers. So, I'm sort of cognizant of that too. And I'm on TV so much here locally that if I put that out on Twitter every day or x every day, I drive everybody crazy.

John: Now I know my listeners are going to have these questions, so I'm going to substitute for them. On any of the YouTube stuff, that's kind of your main thing now in terms of connecting with patients and clients and people in general teaching. Are you doing any monetization of YouTube, passive or active or anything like that?

Dr. David Geier: I do. And I will say I did resist that for a long time. I had a couple videos on my YouTube channel early, but I really started in earnest really going at it weekly, sometimes more than weekly in 2015. And I probably didn't start monetizing it until maybe 2019, 2020, somewhere in there. And I thought long and hard about it. I grew my channel to 20,000 or 30,000 before I started monetizing it.

And it wasn't as much to make money. I'm not going to lie. I don't get that much from it when you hear these other people that are making tens of thousand a month or more. It is nothing like that. But it was a way, as much as anything, just helped me. I put way more in expenses. You can't see, but I've got a whole TV studio here in this office with four key lights. I've got a hair light, I've got a pre-amp, a DSLR camera, a boom mic. All that stuff costs money. I have a virtual assistant that helps me edit the videos and put captions. All that stuff just costs money.

The amount I get from YouTube every month doesn't come close to covering any of that but it helps a little bit. And honestly, just for a short five second ad at the beginning of videos, even though it's not specific medical advice and I'm very specific about that in my YouTube videos, essentially they are getting advice in the sense, they're getting information about what an injury is. That's a little honestly better than just reading a WebMD article or Mayo Clinic article. I don't feel that bad about it. But again, I went a long time saying, "You know what? I don't want to do that. That's how I justified it. I'm not saying I'm right. That was just my thought process.

John: No, I think it makes sense. Let me ask you then, I shift gears to the speaking, because you're being interviewed, you're doing presentations and so forth. Do you do any paid speaking?

Dr. David Geier: I do keynote speaking. I do have a burnout talk, a physician burnout talk because I've been through that myself. But I don't do any like Pfizer. Well, Pfizer wouldn't be something for orthopedics. But Arthrex sends you out to talk about a surgical technique and implants and stuff. I don't do any of that kind of paid speaking, but I do keynote speeches on burnout or leadership or personal excellence. I'll get a few thousand dollars in travel paid for by some of those.

I don't do a lot of that. I was actually doing a lot right before COVID and then obviously COVID killed the speaking industry. That's starting to open back up but I do it more if it's the right opportunity, not necessarily to make money. Because it's hard to leave your practice and leave your family. Really, if it's a good opportunity with a good audience and an audience that would be receptive, especially to the burnout message, that's why I do it. The fee is more than anything just to sort of reimburse me for the cost and time of leaving my family and practice.

John: Well, you mentioned the burnout and talking about burnout. That kind of intrigued me. Now, I don't remember if your burnout occurred before we spoke last time or since, but tell me just a little bit about that and what do you talk about and what are you noticing now? Because this has been a big issue even before the pandemic. I think it exploded during the pandemic. I'd just like to get your perspective on that.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it was way before we did our podcast. This was back at 2012, 2013. Toward the end of my eight years at that academic medical center. I was working really hard at just trying to build a sports medicine program and run it. Doing all of that work I was talking about social media wise as well sort of on top of that. And then as a lot of us in medicine know, there were a lot of changes going on back then that weren't necessarily what I wanted as a physician. I had a stable OR team and we got this new OR manager that made all the surgeons lives hell. And there was just a lot going on.

So, it was external change compounded with me just running myself into the ground. And I hit this situation where I wasn't sleeping, I wasn't eating well, I wasn't spending time with my kids and I was just miserable. I was getting angry all the time and I couldn't really figure out why.

And I had that awful OR nurse manager. I won't tell the whole story, but sort of opened my eyes that I was the problem. Now to be fair, she was a lot of the problem and she ended up getting fired. But I realized that there was some truth to that, that I was responsible for a lot of this stuff that happened.

And so, I had to make changes to myself that took about 18 months, committing to getting more sleep and committing to saying "no" to a lot of things and committing to delegating stuff that I shouldn't be doing, committing to spending time with my kids no matter what. If that meant not attending faculty meetings so I could go to my kids' soccer game, so be it.

I ended up actually leaving that academic institution about a year later. But it took me a long time to get through that burnout. And to your point, we are seeing more and more even unrelated to COVID. As you are well aware, this started even before COVID. All the electronic medical records changes, the hospital ownership of practice and being pushed to see more patients in less time and having to do more and more of the tasks ourselves as physicians. That to be fair, anybody could do, you don't necessarily need a physician, but that's all time that's on physicians keeping them away from their families and away from hobbies and things.

So it is getting worse, but fortunately there is more of an attention on this now. Not just the physicians and them making their own changes, but I do get the sense that hospitals and these institutions care and are trying to make changes. But it's hard. You got bottom line financial interests and then you've got physician well-being interests and where that balance is, it's not going to be the same at any institution, but that's going to play a large role in what medicine looks like over the next 10 years. I really believe that may drive if it continues the way it's going people out of medicine or like an integrative practice, cash-based practice. Or we're going to get a handle on this and we're going to figure out ways to help physicians be quality physicians, but also have healthy lives.

John: Well, I'm kind of encouraged a little bit that you've noticed at least some more recognition of this. When I've asked other colleagues in the past, like, "Okay, tell me a couple of the hospitals that you're familiar with that have now taken burnout seriously." And it's like a big zero or they started a program and it was trying to teach resilience. And it's like, "Well, I'm already working 18 hours a day. Why being more resilient? How's that going to help?" Those kinds of things.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah. And every institution is different. There's no question. I have absolutely heard what you're talking about when I give speeches and these people come up to me and they're like, God, I left medicine because I experienced the exact. I tell my story and they're like, "I know exactly what you're feeling." And I hear from medical students saying, "I'm really worried this is going to happen to me."

But I do see evidence that it's starting to change. I hear of hospital systems where they spend the money to get scribes for physicians just to help them get out the door before it's dark outside. And there's a variety of different things. A lot more meet and greets. Because I think relationship between physicians, connections and communities and getting to know each other is so important. And I see a lot of hospital systems really working on that. And I think that's a good thing. There are some trying, but as you're saying, yes, there's a long, long way to go.

John: When you're asked to speak on that topic, is it usually a group of doctors? Is it usually a residency? Is it a hospital? What's your experience?

Dr. David Geier: I've never gotten asked by a residency. That's actually really good. It tends to be either medical organization. I did MGMA, the practice managers group not that long ago, which was really good because they're the ones that now will go and implement some of the suggestions I talked about. But a lot of times it's more medical societies. It'll be the Society of Neurology. I'm not going to say specific ones. Or it'll be a county medical society in some big city that can bring me in.

I like it when there's some way to access medical students and residents, but unfortunately, I don't get that opportunity much. But when I have had that opportunity, I think that's where it's really important because if you can sort of go into medicine saying, "Hey, I'm going to prioritize my wellbeing. I'm still going to take good care of patients, but I know what potentially can happen if I run myself into the ground and allow myself to be run into the ground. I think that that's better.

I think the challenge comes to those of us that have been in medicine for years and years or decades, and we've always done things a certain way and now we're being forced to change. I'm hoping the medical students that didn't have rigid patterns already, maybe they'll be able to adjust to the new world of medicine. And it is very new compared to what you and I probably trained under. I really hope the medical students is a different battle for them than what the people that started a while ago really dealt with.

John: Yeah, I hope so too. We're going to segue into what you're doing now a little bit more, what's different now about your practice and so forth. But I want to mention your website because I hate to wait till the end in case someone doesn't listen to the end. It's drdavidgeier.com.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah, drdavid. And then nobody gets the spelling wrong, but I own every domain name of any possible way you can misspell it so you'll end up on it. Dr. David Geier. D-R D-A-V-I-D G-E-I-E-R is how I spell it. And then all the social media is that same handle @drdavidgeier. It doesn't matter what the platform is, but yeah, I appreciate that.

John: Yeah. And if somebody wants to get motivated to do something, I'd say just look you up on YouTube and find you a channel, because it just shows you what you can do if you just spend a little time to organize and get in front of the camera.

Dr. David Geier: And it isn't hard. So many people are like "I could never speak on camera. I could never write." Just start. If you read my first articles, they were horrendous. My first few newspaper columns were God awful. Really bad. My first few YouTube videos, really, really bad. Not just from a tech standpoint, but I was terrible. But it's reps. I bet and this is no criticism of you, but I bet your first few podcasts are nothing like they are now.

John: Yeah.

Dr. David Geier: Just start and you don't have to do every day of the week, literally once a week. And you batch them, you do four at a time and you get a month's worth done all at once. Just start. I really believe, maybe not everybody, but so many physicians, once you start, you may find you actually like it and like communicating in this sort of online world. I think it's really gratifying.

John: Yeah, I think if you listen to my first few podcasts that would be kind of hard to listen to. But we learn over time and it becomes just natural after a while. And you'd be surprised how much you think you don't have anything to say, but it's really not if you learn certain tricks and how to brainstorm in that. You could probably sit down and come up with 20 topics yourself right now and sit down in front of a camera and do it just because people are asking you questions and you can answer those questions. And that's basically what we're doing.

Dr. David Geier: That absolutely is one of the best brainstorming ideas you can have. Literally keep a sheet of paper somewhere or a notebook when people ask you questions. Especially if you hear the same question two or three times in clinic, do a video or do an article on that because I promise people are Google searching for that or searching on YouTube for that. And that's easily the best source of content you could ever have is just what are your patients asking you.

John: Yeah, absolutely. Great advice. Now tell us what you're doing now that's different from what you started doing the first I don't know 10 years or so because it does have some new aspects to it. I'm really anxious to hear about that and I'll probably have to pick your brain about some clinical.

Dr. David Geier: I practiced for 16 years as what I call a traditional orthopedic surgeon. You have an orthopedic injury, very often you fix it surgically, put it back together, that kind of thing. And loved it. Sports medicine, it's mostly arthroscopic surgery. But just over two years ago I pivoted to basically get away from surgery into what I call anti-aging orthopedics. I joined a practice where I was actually a patient myself that was integrative medical practice. They do a lot of hormone replacement, a lot of things, preventative medicine and you just feel better, obviously live longer, but feel better as you live longer.

Actually, my doctor actually helped me through that burnout phase. I realized I was low in a bunch of different health markers, so we've really worked to get that fixed. But then I realized, "Man, there's a lot of things out here that are available that you just can't use in traditional medicine and traditional orthopedics because it's either considered experimental by the FDA or it is approved by the FDA, but you have to use it off-label."

And so, she talked to me and said, "Hey, would you like to come on as bone and joint health?" She and another doctor do, again, integrative medicine. It's sort of all different aspects of medicine, but for a lot of those patients who have arthritis, they have other joint pain and things like that.

And so, I was a little nervous about leaving traditional medicine and insurance-based medicine and surgery but I made the leap maybe a little early, but I don't regret it now. But getting away from surgery and trying to help people avoid surgery with some of these anti-aging and regenerative medicine techniques, we were talking about this before we started, I spent a year studying for my anti-aging and regenerative medicine boards. I had to take a written exam, do an oral exam, which was just awful because I don't remember cardiovascular medicine and all.

I had to learn all these different types of medicine all over again but it was well worth it. At least at the time I got that certification in September of last year 2022. I was only the second orthopedic surgeon in the country to have that board certification.

But it's been great. 40-ish percent of my patients fly in or travel in to see me here in Charleston, South Carolina. It's great. It's a big shift. I miss surgery a little bit, but I realize not that much. And I'm really grateful because I can hopefully help a decent percentage of people not need that surgery. Not just now, but hopefully down the road. So, it was a big change and that's been really the last two, two and a half years of my life.

John: Now the work that you're doing in that regard, does it still require a medical license? Are you doing injections? Are you doing other things like that?

Dr. David Geier: Yeah. No, it's all still a medical license. Now three board certifications. When people think of regenerative medicine, people typically think of stem cells. I don't really do stem cells, even though there are some orthopedic surgeons that do it. There's some things about stem cells that I think make it not terribly effective as a treatment here in the US at least for orthopedics.

But some of the things that we do, some non-physicians do osteopaths and things like that, they don't tend, at least as far as orthopedic conditions, really know what they're treating. Not all, but a lot. They just have their one preferred treatment. They use it over and over and over with people, and I'm not a big fan of that. But yeah, it's all very, very well researched. It's not just, "Hey, let's just try this and see if it works." It involves things like peptides and some regenerative treatments, maybe like exosomes or PRP modalities.

We have hyperbaric oxygen chambers in our practice. We have shockwave and a number of other different things, off-label medications to stop the damage in arthritis and things like that. And a lot of combination treatments. Not just one thing over and over, but different things based on the problems and the specific nature of the patient.

We have our own pharmacy that's regulated by the state pharmacy board and we use FDA approved compounding pharmacies for the raw ingredients that our pharmacy uses and things like that. I think it's great. I'm glad I didn't have to set it up. The doctor that started the practice started it 20 years ago, and so it's a well-oiled machine now. But there's a lot to it. I'm very fortunate that I was invited to be a part of it, but I do think that that's largely where we'll see if orthopedics heads there, but I think all of medicine or at least a lot of it is headed that way.

And the burnout thing was really interesting because so many of the integrative medicine physicians on meeting, that's largely why they left their insurance-based practices is burnout type issues. I'm curious to see if burnout drives a huge growth in integrative medicine, cash-based medicine, preventative medicine. I don't know. We'll see. That wasn't really the reason I did it, but that's what I'm hearing from other physicians that are getting into that world.

John: Yeah, it sounds like a little bit like the people I've talked to that have gone into functional medicine. And so, there's also some other things like that. It's where they can still be a physician and some of those things, truly, they're more of a consultant, but they get to use that physician brain and help clients, help patients.

I think a lot of the approaches that are being discovered and applied that aren't surgical and aren't traditional medicine have beneficial effects that we don't know and understand fully. And that means to me that they're going to be working for things that those other areas just didn't ever have a solution for, at least to date.

Dr. David Geier: It's exciting. Medicine, at least what is going on in the labs, it's progressing very quickly. The challenge a lot of times is that a lot of times the research is coming along faster than the regulatory bodies can examine that evidence. And so, there's a lot of things that seem to work very well that the FDA through no fault of their own just hasn't gotten around to sort of dealing with. And so, you hear the patients, the general public say, "Hey, we're so far behind Europe."

And it's good and bad in some ways. Obviously you want to make everything safe for people, but it is also leading to this growth of the integrative and functional medicine physicians who I really do think generally try to keep an eye on the research and don't push the envelope too far. But unfortunately, I think then you do have people that, "Hey, I can make cash for this and make a lot of money, maybe non-physicians that do push it too far." And so, it is really an interesting space. It'll really be interesting to see how this plays out over the next decade or so.

John: Yeah, I'm interested to see what happens and I'm going to keep looking for guests to come on and tell me more about it in the future. That was a good introduction for us. Do you have a few more minutes? I have one more thing I want to ask you about.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah, absolutely.

John: Because something I read, or maybe it was our conversation, you mentioned AI. I don't know too many physicians have integrated even into writing an article, much less anything else. But I think you have used certain types of AI tools for some of what you do.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah, I actually played around with the tool. I was sort of an early adopter and there's a million AI tools, everybody knows Chat GPT, but of one that I have no relationship other than I pay money to use it. And there's probably better ones now, but I used one called Copy.ai. And to be fair, I haven't gone so far as to say, "All right, I'm going to let it write a video script for me, or I'm going to let it write a blog post." I know they can do that. I've tried it out just to see what it creates.

Where I've found AI to be helpful, we were talking, this is going to sound completely cheesy, but it works. You were talking about great ways to brainstorm and we were talking about writing down questions patients ask, but literally you can search, you can make, depending on how you organize the tool and it's search function and how you set it up, "Give me 10 topic ideas for blog posts about pseudogout" or something like that that'll spit out common symptoms. Things that you honestly could do. But you could brainstorm 50 topics in a heartbeat.

I do know physicians, I was for a short period of time in this mentorship of cash-based physicians in various parts of the country and various specialties. And the guy that ran it was a big proponent of using AI and some of the people in that group tried it, and they write all of their blog posts using AI and they'll just change grammar words and things like that.

It is that good when you remember that you're writing in Layman's terms. You do not want to write, I would argue in very, very detailed scientific terms, because the average person will read your blog post and have no idea what you're talking about. And AI does a pretty good job of translating it into English, but you have to be using these tools. And that's why I don't know that Chat GPT, the times I tried it was terribly helpful. But Copy.ai and I know there's others, it can generate a bullet point, like an outline for a topic, and then within each bullet point a few points within that and you cross out the ones you don't want and you rearrange the ones and then it'll generate a script or a blog post and then you can edit that. And it's surprisingly good.

But at the end of the day, you as a physician sort of need to keep an eye on it, read it, make sure that it's technically right, and that it makes sense to the reader or viewer or listener. But it is amazing what's out there. I'm not going to say that it replaces us, but it can do a lot of the heavy lifting. And when we're talking about creating content, I've been amazed. I don't know how I'll necessarily use AI going into my actual practice, but at least from a every now and then I need to come up with something, yeah, I think it can be helpful.

John: Yeah. I think for people that are thinking about a blog, a podcast, an online course, anything that requires creating content, particularly if it's repetitive. I haven't had a lot of experience with it, but I know that one of my team sometimes uses. I can tell it's an AI thing because I read it and I go, "Okay." But all I do is I just chop up the sentences and I put it in my own exactly voice and that saved me 80, 90% of the time. It's another "no excuse" for not doing this stuff. You don't have the time? It'll take you two minutes to just edit this thing.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah. It really is impressive. You could have it write a 500 word article and you can tell because it may repeat a point, maybe different words, but it's basically saying the same thing or it seems out of order because I don't know how well it thinks through a human train of thought, but it's surprisingly good. If you said "Generate a 500 word blog post on pseudogout", literally 10 seconds and there it is. And then you just go behind it. I don't want to necessarily encourage you to defer the whole content creation to AI, but it is a good start. If you've got writer's block and you are like, "What am I going to write about?" that's another way to at least get started.

John: Yeah. I think we're just scratching the surface. I heard something on the radio or somewhere where somebody told some type of AI to write a 500 page screenplay and five minutes later they had it. And they said it wasn't bad. It was a really good screenplay. Okay, this is crazy.

Dr. David Geier: Well, I think it'll be interesting, and I am not an expert on EMRs electronic medical records at all, but I do wonder when AI is starting to be used for EMRs. I think there's a lot of potential with that in terms of improving our lives. Obviously the information has got to be accurate and all that, but I think there is potential that AI could be really useful. And I say that as an outsider to these systems, but I actually think it could be very helpful, just what I've seen in the social media content world. I've got to believe there's a way to make it useful for physicians in just documenting clinic visits and hospital visits and things like that.

John: Yeah. I hadn't thought about it, but now that you mention it, it just seems like with the right tweaks and the right protections, it could be one of the solutions to this dreadful EMR that we have to work on.

Dr. David Geier: And there's money to be made in it, which makes me think it's already being worked on. Because everybody knows the EMR issue is a huge issue. And the EMR companies, there's a lot of money for them to be made if people pivot to them because it's easy to use. So, it's coming for sure.

John: Okay. Just tell us again how to get in touch with you, how to follow you, the best places.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah. The best place is my website, drdavidgeier.com. There's a contact form I'd love to hear from you if you are listening to this podcast. Even if it's just to say, "Hey, I want to start doing content." I'd love to just know other people that are content providers. So reach out. I get comments and questions from all over the world, so I love interacting.

The links to my social media are on my website, but everywhere, every platform, it's drdavidgeier, whether that's X, which I actually love consuming. I don't post it that much there, but I love consuming. YouTube I'm obviously on. Instagram and Facebook, definitely reach out. I love, love, love, love to meet physicians that are starting to get into podcasting and video creation. I just love it. I wish we could all do it, quite honestly.

John: Hey, I really appreciate the comments today and everything you've shared with us. And with that, I'll just thank you and say goodbye.

Dr. David Geier: Oh, absolutely. I really, really enjoyed it and I hope we can do it in another four or five years. I'll be curious where medicine is and where you and I are at that point.

John: All right. Bye-bye.

Dr. David Geier: Take care.

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The post How to Market Your Surgical and Nonsurgical Careers Like a Pro – 321 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Behind the Scenes Look at Planning the First Nonclinical Career Summit – 294

John Jurica — Tue, 21 Mar 2023 19:23:18 +0000

The First NewScript Summit is Ready to Roll

This week John and co-founder Tom Davis and their team are putting the final touches on NewScript's first Nonclinical Career Summit. It is designed primarily for NewScript members but is open to anyone interested in learning more about nontraditional opportunities for clinicians.

The Summit is a free live event that will be held next week! Mark your calendars for April 11 to April 13 from 7:00 PM to 11:00 PM Eastern Time.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete.

What is NewScript?

NewScript is a community of mentors, career transition experts, and clinicians. It is designed for licensed healthcare workers seeking professional fulfillment and resources to help overcome burnout and transition into more fulfilling nonclinical and nontraditional careers.

As the community grows, John and Tom decided to present the Summit for these reasons:

To help clinicians who are dissatisfied with their jobs.
To broaden our reach and spread our message.
To leverage the expertise of our Mentors and enable them to reach an even larger audience.

What Is the Summit Agenda?

This 3-day event consists of 12 live lectures and Q&A sessions with 4 topics covered each day.

Below are the speakers and topics being covered.

Tuesday, April 11, starting at 7:00 PM Eastern Time:

Jen Barna on Success Coaching
Norman Chapin on pursuing an Advanced Degree
Andrew Wilner on Locum Tenens
Cherisa and Alex Sandrow on Telemedicine/Telehealth

Wednesday, April 12, starting at 7:00 PM Eastern Time

Debra Blaine on Writing and Self-Publishing
Nerissa Kreher on Pharma Jobs
Jeep and Vanessa Naum on Marriage in Professional Couples
Tom Davis on Venture Capital Advising

Thursday, April 13, starting at 7:00 PM Eastern Time:

Maria Abunto on Becoming an MSL
Jonathan Vitale on Remote UM Jobs
Chelsea Turgeon on Location-Independent Work
12. John Jurica on Hospital Management Jobs

SUMMARY

In today's episode, John discusses the planning for the first Nonclinical Career Summit sponsored by NewScript, including the goals and expected outcomes. He discusses why he and his partner chose a 3-day live Zoom Conference Call format.

The faculty experts will be providing a lot of information beneficial to physicians and nonphysicians, including APNs and PAs, dentists, podiatrists, oral surgeons, social workers, and other therapists.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

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Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 294

Behind the Scenes Look at Planning the First Nonclinical Career Summit

John: Sorry if today seems like it's going to be a 25-minute promotional episode but I think we can get some good information from this. Really putting together a summit like this brings together a lot of the things I've been working on for many years. From doing marketing and emailing and social media and creating the podcast and learning how to use video and audio and run Zoom meetings and all that.

So, let's move on and let's talk about that today. That's really what I want to cover. Let's get into first of all what a summit is. Now summits have become very popular recently, and it may be a little bit amusing because really what distinguishes a summit from other types of conferences, I would say a summit is a type of conference.

But let's see how it may be different from the typical conference you might be attending live or online. Well, first of all, most summits are online. They're an online form of conference. The second thing is that the live or the basic version of a summit is usually free or extremely low cost. And then usually there's access to recordings or ancillary or bonus content that's normally sold for an additional fee. You get the free aspect of the summit. In our case, it's almost 12 hours. There are breaks in there, but it's 12 hours over three days of lectures followed by Q&A.

And the whole thing, like I said, is free. You can learn a lot, and you can take notes, but if you want to get recordings and you want to get all the bonuses that might come up to support the lectures, then you're going to have to buy the all access pass.

And usually it's focused on one particular theme. A lot of times it's something related to business, like real estate investing or careers or marketing or any other business topic. And it generally involves anywhere from 10 to even 30 or 40 presentations done over a few days up to a week.

And the other thing that usually happens with the summit and why there are so many support programs built, have grown recently to help support summits is that usually the presenters are also serving as affiliates to help market the program. So, in other words, the speakers we have, most of our speakers are mentors on NewScript, but we have some other experts that Tom and I know. We ask them if they want to go ahead and get on and give a lecture for 30 minutes, answer some Q&A for 20 minutes, and in exchange, they can get a little bit of authority, be part of something that's a positive thing. And they can also promote this to their followers, their listeners, some of their customers, and their email subscribers and make some marketing affiliate commissions. And so, it all kind of pulls together.

Now, the way they vary sometimes is a lot of summits are pre-recorded. They'll record all of the lectures and maybe even have some sort of pseudo Q&A, but they'll just record the sessions and then they'll either drip them out during the week or during the day, or each day they'll post, let's say if they're doing a three day summit or a four day summit, they'll post one third or one fourth of the lectures for that day. People can access it at their own rate and then wait till the next day when the others are dripped out and the next day and the next day. And again, usually during that time it's being promoted and people are buying access to the recordings.

Now, sometimes they're done live, which is what we decided to do. And part of the reason was that I did a survey and I pretty much asked people what they wanted. People that are on my email list, people in NewScript. And they basically said they wanted to do it in the evening, that they wanted it to be live and have a Q&A.

And there have been other summits that I've attended that this is the process that's been used. And it's really good because there's a lot of interaction and it seems more real. And really when you're learning, if you can ask questions, it's a whole lot better than just listening to a prerecorded 20 or 30 minute video that may have some good content, but then you can't follow up.

We decided, "Okay, we're going to go low tech, we're just going to run it on our Zoom. We're not going to pre-record anything." There's a little exception of that because we had a couple of speakers that for whatever reason, it would be almost impossible for them to be live on the summit because of the timing. We have a couple of them that are going to be recorded, but they'll be posted during the live event. So, we're not going to send those out to people that have signed up. If they want to really get the free version of even the recordings they have to attend, you'd have to attend.

So, we decide to do it that way, make it live, make it exciting. There might be glitches. We're prepared as best we can for that. And that's what we're going to do. And the night that we do it, the three nights that we do it from April 11, April 13, we're going to be recording the sessions including the Q&A. We're going to get those posted as quickly as we can. And anybody that buys you all access pass will have access to those forever. Plus it'll be not just the video recordings, but an audio version plus any bonuses that we have. I'll talk about the bonuses later.

I wanted to go through in detail how we approach this and the principles we decided to follow. We're going to keep it as low-tech as we can. We're not going to hire some outside firm to try and coordinate and put this whole thing together and market it and so forth, only because they take a huge chunk of money, and we're trying to keep this as low cost as possible. Hence the fact that there are 12 hours of free content. Just show up and it's there for you.

We want it to be convenient. As I said, the survey said people wanted it during the week, they don't want to screw up their weekend. And because people can't usually work during the day, it's going to be run in the evenings for four hours. As I thought about this, I thought, "What did I get myself into? I'm going to sit on a Zoom call for four hours, three nights in a row." I think I might go nuts, but I think it'll be fun actually, and I'll be really pumped when the time comes.

It needs to be affordable, which it will be. Even the all access pass is going to be so low cost, it's just crazy. We wanted to do it live to have that Q&A and we wanted it to be really powerful and impactful. We really want to help the people we serve.

Tom and I run NewScript and so we kind of gear this for them, clinicians who are looking to get away from burnout and lack of satisfaction and fulfillment in their jobs and feeling that they're being taken for granted at their jobs. And so, it's that audience, but obviously, there are a lot of people who aren't in NewScript that have the same feelings and are looking for the same things. And so, we're going to be putting this out to a very, very large audience.

All right. So, what did we do? I talked about the survey, we talked about the timing. When we first started talking about this, I think was in October of 2020. And I thought, "Well, let's see. We got three or four months, maybe we should just try and do this in the middle of January.

We're past all the holidays and everything should be quieting down." Of course, I'm talking to you now. I'm recording this in March. So that obviously didn't work out, but we looked at our calendars and Tom in particular said it's going to be tough to squeeze that in. I've got some things going on in January. So, it looks like maybe April will be better. And I'm glad we did that because there are a lot of things we had to do upfront to get this thing rolling.

And so, I'm really happy that I still have another few weeks to finish up what my part in putting this together is. And then once we made that decision, then it's kind of like Stephen Covey used to tell us "You start with the end in mind." Starting from, okay, here's what we want to create.

What do we need to do to plan this thing? I have some experience in planning big projects. I was basically in charge of the implementation of the first integrated full hospital electronic medical record, which meant it had to integrate with radiology and the pharmacy and the nursing, and all the doctors who had never done order entry before. In that project, we had at least seven different committees, call them subcommittees, and they were all working on their part of it. Of course, everything for the summit is basically Tom Davis and me. And so, it's a mini version of that.

What do I want to go into first? Well, we decided also that we wanted to try to stick with the most popular topics that were asked about in NewScript and outside of NewScript in terms of burnout and overwhelm and starting a business, starting a new clinical, or nonclinical position or non-traditional clinical position or job, side gig, full-time activity.

We wanted to use our mentors. We have over a dozen mentors now in NewScript. They're all experts on those kinds of things. Some are experts in particular industries like pharma or hospitals or academic settings or insurance or things like that. Some are coaches. Some have other expertise. We wanted to use as many of them as we could. So, we started by creating the draft schedule and we started reaching out to people to get commitments for the topic. It was early enough that I don't think the timing was going to be a big deal, meaning that we were so far out (two, three months) in advance that most people had open schedules.

We thought back and forth about how to promote this, and how to post it. Originally I was going to post all of the recordings on my Teachable account, where I have the Nonclinical Career Academy. It has a pretty slick affiliate section because what can happen is I can get affiliates for Teachable to promote my courses. Some of you may have seen that from time to time.

But at the end of the day, consulting some other people and talking, we decided to set up a separate WordPress website, and then add a plugin that could handle all the affiliate marketing, meaning that it would create the affiliate codes for people who are promoting this. It would track who sold things, and who sold access to the all access pass, and then it would automatically process their commissions as the payments came in.

And by the way, we thought about, again, keeping this affordable. And this is another feature of summits, is that a lot of times what they'll do is you've got the free version and then if you purchase the bonus side or the all access pass or there are different terms used for it to get the recordings, to get other things, then there's a small fee. In our case, it's $19. So you can get all 12 hours of everything we're doing for $19 if you sign up for that all access pass before the start of the summit on April 11th.

Now if you wait till after, there are going to be some people that won't even know about the summit, of course, for whatever reason until the summit is going, and then people might be sharing that with their friends and so forth. So, we're going to be marketing it during that week, of course. Once it kicks in on the 11th, then the all access pass increases to $39. Again, nothing. This is a ridiculously low price, but it's going to go up. And part of that is just to promote people to get off the fence and sign up because the price is going to go up.

We'll see probably a little peak on the 10th or 11th in the morning before the price goes up. Then during the summit for three days, if you come in, you're halfway through the live event and you say, "Well man, I really want those lectures, so I'm going to sign up for the pass. It's going to be $39 to do that."

Now, at the end of that three-day period we're going to be promoting it hard on the last day, and then the next day on that Friday, the price goes up to $79 now. That way, in retrospect, if someone goes to the whole thing or attends a lot of the lectures and says, "Boy, in retrospect that was really awesome and I didn't really take a lot of notes, so I want to purchase it." Then for two days, we'll be selling it for $79, and then after those two days pass, we'll be sending out a bunch of emails, letting people know, on that third day after it ends, the price is going to go up to $279 I believe.

It'll be up to us and our affiliate promoters who basically for the most part are speakers to decide if afterward, they want to sell it. And they can do that. They can do it intermittently. We can do it sometimes maybe three months later. We'll decide, "Hey, we had a great summit looking back and maybe we'll promote it again and sell it." And so, we'll keep doing that for probably several months afterward. So, that's how it works. We kind of came up with that plan.

And then we had to think about bonuses. Definitely, the recordings will be something worth a lot, but we thought, "Well, some of the lectures will have supplementary materials and we could try to distribute those during the live event." It's a little difficult. The easiest thing to do is take those bonuses, it might be a checklist, it might be a list of some topic. If the topic is about starting a UM job, it might be a list of companies. If it's about telemedicine, it might be a list of people or companies that hire physicians to work in telemedicine. For me, it's a list of 70 nonclinical jobs.

And also I'm going to put in there, because I'm talking about hospital management, one of the bonuses is going to be access to a 10-course bundle, all related to hospital management jobs. And so, I'm just going to put that up there for free. So, another reason to maybe spend $39 or $79. That course alone is worth about $270 if I remember correctly.

I had to figure out all that stuff ahead of time and how to communicate with our speakers and affiliate marketers, how to get that set up. And I had an associate, one of my social media people, actually is the guy that does my website, set up the website and the affiliate component of that.

And then we had to write a marketing schedule and plan. What does that mean? That means for us to do marketing of the summit, but also to write a bunch of emails, put together some images, some social media posts that the affiliate marketers and speakers could use without having to spend a lot of time promoting it to their customers, their followers, their listeners, readers, whatever it might be.

As of this recording, I'm about three-quarters through writing that. I've already written about 12 or 13 emails. And again, they're completely optional for people to use. They're the ones I'm going to use. But it makes it easier when people don't do a lot of affiliate marketing to be able to say, "Hey, I'm going to pull that email over. I'm going to change a few things about it, make it my own, send it out, and let my followers think about coming to hear me speak." Because each of these affiliates, for the most part, are speakers and to possibly sign up for the all access pass.

We had a lot of conversations about whether we would be able to do this with Zoom. I have a software called WebinarJam, which is actually created to do webinars. It has a lag in it and also it does not enable people to interact verbally at all on WebinarJam. And it's great software. I've made many webinars on that and promoted them, but you can't interact verbally. And so, you have to rely on the chat for people to put in their questions. It works okay.

But we thought we really want this to be live. We'll probably use the chat for most of the questions, but if we want to get someone on and say "I don't quite understand your question, why don't you raise your hand or we'll unmute you and you can ask your question directly, and we'll do our best to answer that question live during the Q&A." Right now, we're 80% of the way there, and so far so good. The thing that we're going to have to face, we need to do another dry run with a bunch of people on the call so we can make sure everything works appropriately in the version of Zoom that I'm using.

And the other thing we have to do is figure out how we're going to turn around the recordings because obviously, we'll be creating four different sessions per evening during the summit so we can hopefully try and get the video and audio recordings edited and ready for placement in the website within a day or two of the actual event. That's another thing we're working on, and trying to coordinate right now.

Those are the main things that we talked about and that we had to do to get this thing off the ground. Right now I'll just summarize where we are with the actual summit. We're on track to deliver those 12 lectures in Q&A sessions starting with four speakers on April 11th at 7:00 PM Eastern, 4:00 PM Pacific, and then four more on the 12th and four more on Thursday the 13th.

The speakers that we have, you may have heard of these people before because I think most of them have been on my podcast, if not all of them. So, let's see. We got Jen Barna who's talking about success coaching. Norman Chapin on pursuing advanced degrees. Andrew Wilner on locum tenens. Cherisa and Alex Sandrow on telemedicine, telehealth. Debra Blaine on writing and self-publishing. Nerissa Kreher on pharma jobs. Jeep and Vanessa Naum. His name is George, but he goes by Jeep. Jeep and Vanessa Naum who are going to be talking about marriage and professional couples particularly as it relates to the stress of burnout or pursuing a new job, new career, which is very stressful on families.

Tom Davis on venture capital advising. Jonathan Vitale on remote UM jobs. Chelsea Turgeon on location independent work internationally. She has a very interesting story. She's been on my podcast, but she's going to get into this in great detail and she's learned even more than she told us about when she was on the podcast a year or so ago.

I'll be talking about hospital executive jobs and I'm pretty certain that I've got someone to cover medical science liaison, which is really an important topic. It's one I talk about a lot because it's one that's accessible to physicians who don't have residency training. It's good for those with residency training and experience as well, but it's one that's commonly sought by those without residency training or board certification. My plan is that that will be Dr. Maria Abunto. All of my speakers are physicians. All of my speakers are physicians although NewScript is designed and run for all clinicians, licensed clinicians who work in the usual healthcare environments where they're abused and taken advantage of.

But a lot of the material that we're going to be talking about would be useful as well to nonphysicians like APNs and PAs and dentists and podiatrists and oral surgeons and social workers and other therapists in the hospital or office setting. We think it's going to be great. And if it goes well, then we'll plan on doing it in the future again. Maybe tweak it a little bit and expand it and we'll go from there.

That's really all I wanted to talk about today. I don't know that I hit every last topic, but these things just need to be approached like any major project. I wrote a project plan which sometimes they're called a Gantt chart. It's basically a large graphic in which each sub-project task is listed on one side. I guess that'd be the Y-axis. And then on the bottom is the X-axis, which has the dates. So I made mine a weekly and what was supposed to happen during each period of time.

And then that way you have this big graphic visual look at when things need to be done. You can check against your plan, you can adjust the plan, you can add things to it pretty easily. I just do it on Excel. That's how physically I put the plan together with Tom. But basically, we split up the different activities and just got going. And so far so good.

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The post Behind the Scenes Look at Planning the First Nonclinical Career Summit – 294 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Why This Critical Care Specialist Launched a Healthcare Technology Company – 203

John Jurica — Tue, 06 Jul 2021 10:00:58 +0000

Interview with Dr. Jonathan Baktari

Today's guest is a fascinating healthcare technology company CEO. Dr. Jonathan Baktari received his medical degree at Ohio State. He then completed his internal medicine residency at Northwestern University and Pulmonary/Critical Care Fellowship at UCLA.

He was at the peak of his medical career when he saw a new opportunity.

Applying everything he’d learned as a doctor, medical director, and educator, he launched two businesses—a vaccine clinic and a drug-testing enterprise—that are driven by technology and designed for fast, customer-centric service. And he’s continuing to write his second career chapter as a healthcare CEO.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete.

Launching a Healthcare Technology Company

Dr. Baktari’s company e7 Health was named the best technology company in the healthcare space in 2019. e7 Health is a systems company that has developed its own electronic cloud-based software to benefit patients and clients.

Don’t think the FIRST thing you’re going to do has got to be THE thing. – Dr. Jonathan Baktari

In addition to vaccines, antibody testing, and many other medical services essential to employers around the country, e7 is now providing at-home COVID-19 testing all over the U.S.

Developed a Thriving Business

By identifying a problem for employers and developing a team to address those problems, he was quickly able to develop a thriving business. And he provided great insights into how to succeed in growing a business similar to his.

It takes leadership and the ability to find and hire experts in specialized fields such as technology. It also involves dedication and persistence. As Jonathan told us, it is often the people you meet while building your FIRST thing who open the doors for the NEXT thing.

Summary

Jonathan has really made a splash in his field. He is leading a rapidly growing company. And he shared useful insights with us during this engaging conversation.

I especially liked his comment about working through so-called failures or setbacks when he said, “Don’t think the FIRST thing you’re going to do has got to be THE thing.” I love that.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

Links for Today's Episode:

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Episode 202

Why This Critical Care Specialist Launched a Healthcare Technology Company

John: Today's guest has come a long way from practicing pulmonary and critical care medicine, but he certainly built his businesses on his clinical background. So, I'm really happy to welcome you to the PNC podcast. Dr. Jonathan Baktari. Welcome.

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: Hi, John. Thank you so much for having me.

John: This is going to be fun. There's a lot we can learn from you I think. You've done a lot of things and I'm always interested in hearing how someone does a startup that's in healthcare, but not a clinical startup. So, we usually start by just asking you to give us a little bit of background about yourself, like your education briefly, and your beginning clinical practice when you got out of residency and fellowship.

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: Right. Well, thank you. So, I actually went to college at Case Western Reserve University, got a degree in biology and psychology. Then I went to Ohio State for medical school, which was amazing. And then subsequently, I went to Northwestern University in Chicago for my internship and residency in internal medicine. And then lastly, I wind up at UCLA for my pulmonary critical care fellowship. And then I finished that out and then I took sort of a quasi-clinical faculty position at University of Hawaii. And then subsequently got recruited to a big pulmonary critical care private group here in Las Vegas and did that for some number of years. And then worked my way into administrative and regular nontraditional medical entrepreneurship.

John: So you spend a lot of time from what I was looking at your bio in doing some UM, and then you became like a regional medical director for an insurance company. So, did you start UM at the hospital setting or in the insurance setting or third-party? How did that all work?

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: So it was actually pretty much both. My first job was being medical director for Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield for the state of Nevada. That was an insurance company, obviously. Then I was medical director for the Culinary Health Fund, which is a health fund that's run by the culinary union. So they have their own health funds. So I was their medical director. And of course in between that, I was chief of medicine at one of the hospitals. And I was briefly head of an ICU, medical director of an ICU. So, there was a whole hodgepodge of traditional what doctors do when they're involved in administrative stuff. But yeah, then after that I became medical director for utilization management for hospital systems.

So I've worked for hospitals and I've worked for the insurance side, which is interesting. And I've worked on the clinical side and I also during all that time was at a clinical faculty at three different med schools over my career. So, I talk about having the vantage point of four pillars, like doing clinical, doing teaching, being on the insurance side and being on the hospital side. And I think a lot of inspiration I got was seeing it from everyone's point of view.

John: Now, if I remember correctly, I was working in the hospital as a CMO, there was a time when it seemed like hospitals were very interested in hiring people into their executive team that had experience on the insurance side. Because they were looking at ACOs and how are we going to manage these patients if we have to take risks? Was that part of that whole effort for you?

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: I mean the hospitals I'm sure were interested in because I have all this experience on the insurance side. The one thing I would say about doctors who venture off outside of traditional medicine, the one thing I found is one door always opens up another door. It's like nobody comes to you and grabs you out of your clinical practice and says, "Hey, would you like to be head of this insurance company or head of this hospital?" or whatever. It's always one door opening another. If you get offered a position on a committee in a hospital, take it, if you have interest in it, because that's not the point, that committee may not be the point, but that being on that committee will actually open up another door.

John: I mean, just what you learn on a committee like that. It's just different from clinical medicine. It's just a new scale, being on a committee, managing the committee. So, I'm thinking you would have been set up perfectly to continue in leadership and insurance companies or a health system, but then all of a sudden I see something totally entrepreneurial going on here. So, how did that come about from this whole background in which was really in corporate medicine in a sense, at that level.

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: That was almost as big of a leap as leaving clinical medicine and going into administrative medicine, then leaving administrative medicine, which is more corporate and literally being the entrepreneur and just literally following you. I think part of it is you get to see the pros and cons and how much impact you can have being clinical. And then you can see how much of an impact you can have being on the corporate side. And then you can see the kind of impact you can have in terms of doing things the way you want to do it, based on what you see maybe needs to be improved.
The downside of course is as you go from clinical to working for a corporation to starting your own thing, you kind of feel like you're jumping out of a plane with less and less of a parachute every time, because there is no backstop once you get to that point. I mean, it is what it is. And you could say a lot of pros and cons of clinical medicine, but the one great thing about it is you always have a paycheck and there's always income coming. And there's always this trade-off.

John: Most physicians are pretty risk averse. I mean, we're trained to be clinically and most of us shun the idea of starting something brand new from scratch. But tell me how you did that transition. Were you still working in one field and you decided to do the startup? And how did that whole thing transpire?
Dr. Jonathan Baktari: Yeah. With almost all of them, I always say if you're working 40 hours a week in clinical, you need to start working 80 hours a week in clinical administration. And once you got a foothold in, pull the clinical back. And I'm saying the same thing when you go to entrepreneurship, there's always a two to three year transition time because it allows you to really not panic and scramble, if the first thing you do doesn't turn out your way. But it does require you to initially work more so you can in theory work less, if that makes sense. So initially, you have to invest more time, and not just come back.
But yes, then eventually I cut my clinical back at half-time, after I felt like I had gotten a strong foothold into administrative. And even when I went from administrative to entrepreneurship, I cut the administrative back to half-time and focused on entrepreneurship until I was ready to do that full-time.

John: That sounds very logical, very intentional. That's very good. Not everyone can do that, but it sounds like you had a good plan. So what was the niche or the problem you are solving with that first entrepreneurial venture .I'd just be interested in your thought process on that.

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: Specifically, or why did I want to go into entrepreneurship? What was I trying to change globally or specifically when we started? Like specifically?

John: Like specifically, when you started the first venture, but then also tell us about the big picture.

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: The big picture, let's start with that is initially when you do administrative medicine and you do clinical medicine, like for example, when one of the things I found really frustrating when I was a clinician is a lot of times I saw hospital improvements.
Like when a hospital wants to make an improvement. For me, it was often very frustrating because all the improvements were done, to me, it seemed like a lot of improvements were done on the back of the doctors. Oh, you got to write your orders more legibly back when they were being written. You got to input more data here. You're not filling out that form. Which is fine, but often if you think about it back, now they have hospitals that are often hospital employees, but when the doctors are not hospital employees, a lot of the work is put on the back of the doctors because they're not paid.
And so we can just pile and often not in an efficient manner. In other words, it wasn't like leveraging technology. It was just, okay, doctors need to fill out this and do this and verify that. Which was good, but why not invest in technology to make the doctors do what they're supposed to do? And also the regular staff.

So, I think it was this lack of investment in technology. There was no real incentive to do it. And remember, electronic medical records took forever to take hold. There was a lot of inertia. Now of course everyone takes it for granted, but we could have had electronic medical records a decade sooner. But I think there was not enough "Why should we do it?" And so that was very frustrating to see that we weren't leveraging technology. And no one could say the medical establishment is really good at catching on to the latest wave of technology, right? We were the last ones in.

John: We were at least a decade behind.

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: Right. And then we're always doing it with a gun to our head. So I think it was that frustration with the lack of technology globally that I noticed at least on the clinical side. And then when I went to the administrative side, again the administrative side I found was very rewarding. I got a lot of skills, but it was really hard to make changes. It was like moving the Titanic. Almost every corporation will tell you to change or make progress. So when you factor those two things, you say, "Okay, we need to leverage technology and we can't be slow to make every change". If you put that together, what is the environment that addresses both those immediately? When it's your technology and your environment. And you're not making decisions with committee after committee, after committee.

The lure of that seems so obvious. And so, that's how I eventually got to where I got. Because we've become a software development company masquerading as a healthcare company. And we're able literally to make change. Like when COVID hit, oh, my gosh, our software development team got together. We are integrating with and launching nationwide all home and work saliva testing. We're going to integrate with a lab. We're going to create a patient portal. We're going to create a company portal. We had the team ready to go. And we were on the very few that rolled that out pretty early in the pandemic, nationwide COVID saliva testing, FDA authorized. We teamed up with a lab at Rutgers University. And again, if it was a corporation, I don't know how long that would have taken, but when there's a pandemic going on, you want to literally meet and say, "Okay, that's really great, we're working on this, but now we're going to rework it on this".

John: Right. Yeah, things don't happen that quickly in a big corporate structure at all. Everything has to be planned out. It has to be part of a strategic plan most of the time. So, I guess I'd like to know a little bit of the picture behind the curtain there. So, you're not a computer guy, right?

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: I'm not a computer guy, but I got to tell you I've always had the latest cell phone.

John: Okay. So, you weren't afraid of it.

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: I'm not a computer guy per se, but I'm at the forefront. I'm the champion of pushing technology in our organization because I see the value of what technology can do if done correctly, which in our organization, it's got two main focuses. Remove human error in delivering care and improve quality and two, reduce friction for the user experience for the patient and for the staff.
I don't know if you want to get into this, but let's just take electronic medical records. If you were going to build electronic medical records for anyone, and you want it to be successful, the one thing you would tell your software developers is, the most important thing about any electronic medical records is how well it does in getting reimbursed from third parties. Because it could provide all the great user experience, but if you don't get reimbursed for Medicare Medicaid, it won't really matter.

So you have to understand now that I've been in this electronic medical records world, the number one thing that software developers have to keep in mind when they're creating them is that we can't afford to go down 20% on our reimbursement when someone switches to our EHR EMR. So, once you know that you're beholden to this third party as the main driver of your software, a lot of other things take a back seat, and that's the physician and medical staff user experience. How much is really focused on preventing human error in delivering care, and how much could we focus on improving quality and care, leveraging technology.

If you can get the third party as your main focus and focus on those other things, we've created electronic medical records that don't exist anywhere in the world. Not because we're so smart, not because we're so good, not because we have the best developers. It's just that no part of our software deals with third-party reimbursement. So, that allows us to do magical things. We have 10,000 positive reviews on our website. I don't think any company in the world has 10,000. And all of it speaks to our technology and the user experience that that brings them.

John: So the healthcare is vast, it's huge, it's inpatient, it's outpatient, it's nursing homes, it's whatever. So you had to start somewhere. You didn't start with this technology that solved a problem for everybody. So, just give us a little taste of like, what was it you were trying to solve and how did you build this thing without going into too many steps? But how did you get the team together? Where'd you get the funding? That kind of stuff.

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: That was amazing. Well, if you want to know the tidbit, originally, it was a travel medicine clinic that does preventative care for travel medicine. And we quickly realized that we had all of these adult vaccines and a refrigerator that could be used for other things. For example, people have no idea that corporate America spends billions of dollars on vaccines, physicals and annual hearing tests, vision tests, to comply with government regulations and to keep their employees safe. It has nothing to do with primary care or urgent care. And same thing with schools, allied health schools, and other institutions, defense firms, construction companies. All of these have a plethora of preventative health care measures they need to do to comply with government regulations and other government bodies. And also to keep their employees safe.

And nobody was looking at that as a prime focus of the business. They were just doing it sort of as I call it as a "side hustle" to whatever else they were doing. And we said, "Well, why don't we take all those side hustles and put them as the main hustle?" If I can call it that. Because when you do something as a side hustle, the people who are getting the service know that you're doing this as a side thing, right?

So, when you walk into urgent care to get a pre-employment drug test or physical, I think you can figure out that this is not really what they do. Or if you go to an occupational med place to get a TB skin test for nursing school or whatever, you're going to figure out this is not their core business, but probably because you're sitting next to someone with a gash on their forehead. And you're just there to get a flu shot and a TB skin test. So you can start nursing school or you can get a job at a hospice or something.

So, it became very obvious that this whole area of adult vaccination for organizations, for schools, for employers and for retail clients was being ignored. What would happen if we took all of that and made it out of business? And had the exclusion of primary care, urgent care and OCC med.
And then if we added technology, for example, if you come into one of our clinics and you ask for anything, let's say you asked for a vaccine, but you have an allergy that excludes you from having that vaccine, in our system, if the staff tries to put it in, it won't let you, if you've already put that allergy. We even checked with the state database before you come in to see. You may not know you had it as a kid, we may know and not offer it to you. So, these are just small examples of what technology can do. That's on the quality side.

But on the reducing friction we are probably the only medical institution I know in the country that doesn't have a medical records department. And the reason we don't have a medical records department is there's nothing we can do for you that wouldn't be in your patient portal by the time you got to your car.

John: Nice. Now does this communicate with the purchasers as well? Like the companies that need this for their employees?

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: Yeah, so it's amazing because what we do is, we even have a company portal. So, as long as the patient signs off that the company can have access to that service for HIPAA reasons, yes, it will be uploaded and we can custom make the portal for that company's need. If the company says we have five locations and we'd like them compartmentalized based on location, based on departments, we'd like to search it based on the calendar year. We can customize that company portal to be a solution for the company. So, they're not in the data management business.

John: Very cool. All this we're talking about now is the current e7 Health. That is the organization that is doing this now. Are there any new things that you're starting to branch off into? It sounds like over time you have taken on additional roles in that space.

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: Well, yeah, e7 stands for seven books of business. So we do all seven, but they're all interrelated in the sense that a lot of our clients use more than one book of business. And what we're doing now is just any third party software that we were using, we're now integrating those third party software and creating it on our own so that we will be complete. We still use Slack and other third party software. So as every quarter rolls by, we have a list of one quality improvements and a list of third party software that we can integrate into our system.

John: Can you give us some idea, like either the scope of the business now in terms of the size or number of clients or something, and the change over time? It'd just be interesting to know because I know you're out west compared to me, I'm in the Chicago area. So, you're out west somewhere in Nevada, but tell us about that.

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: Yeah. We have two clinics in Southern Nevada and we focus on those. We've been around for 10 years, our revenues grow 20% or more year over year if you average it over those 10 years, and that shows no sign of stopping. From a revenue model. And you asked earlier how we do it? We bootstrapped it and we have no outside investors. We have no debt. We basically took a lot of our profits and just reinvested it in to get us this far. So that's been our model.

John: All right. That's a true entrepreneur, just growing and growing. And so much is based on technology. Do you have a sizable team in terms of the technology team at this point?

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: Yeah, we have I would say a group of software developers that, and the nice thing is we have resources to bring in additional people that are contracted, but yeah, we have a group of 5 or 10 core people, and then we have ability for specific projects to contract out more.

John: Well, this all sounds very exciting. This sounds like it is fun. It's probably a lot of headaches and a lot of work too, but it's fun. So, what kind of advice do you have for physicians out there who are kind of in a similar place where you were 10, 15 years ago? Medicine's fine. But they just have an interest. Maybe there's some problems out there that need to be solved. And so, what comments would you make to them?

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: I think the biggest struggle is psychological because no matter what complaints you have about clinical medicine, you're probably making a decent paycheck every month or whatever. And it's really psychological, especially if you have a family, a mortgage or to say, "Hey, I'm going to rock that boat because of this potential thing". And I think that's the biggest hurdle. No matter what you think. If we just went to the hospital doctor lounge and talked to your typical doctor, a high percentage of them would want to do something else if they could snap their fingers.

The question really is are you willing to rock the boat? And I think that's the biggest hurdle. Look, doctors are super smart. They're great, a very intelligent bunch. What keeps them from doing administrative medicine, starting a company, getting involved in other things, it's literally as I always tell my colleagues who were thinking about it, it's a pool that doesn't have a shallow end. You just have to jump into the deep end. And that's a financial thing. Also, I think we talked offline. You just spent 15, 20 years, however long to get to where you are. And then you got to say, you know what? That was really great. I'm glad I went to that residency. I'm glad I did that fellowship. And I'm glad I became a senior partner in the group, but let's check all that and move to something else. So that's almost next to impossible if you frame it like that, if you're really thinking like that. Who does that? Who fills up their shopping carts and has it all full and then says I'm not going to buy anything?

And so I think those are the two psychological barriers. I think how do you tell your family, "Hey, this really nice paycheck we're getting might be in jeopardy and how do you say to yourself, well what was that fellowship for? What was that residency for?" Even in my group, I'm a senior partner now, how do I walk away from that?

John: Well, as you're telling me that, and I'm thinking even about your situation, first of all, and here's what I would say to people. That it isn't a step back or a step off to move from let's say clinical to something else. In my mind, what you're doing is a step up, it's a step beyond. You've taken all the clinical and all that other experience you've had. And now you're even building something that's going to potentially have a much bigger impact. So, it's hard to look forward to that though, because it takes so long to get there, it seems.

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: It takes so long. And you're going to have to go through this transition period where you may be doing both. And so, you're like looking at potentially working more for a couple of years and potentially making less.

John: There's usually that dip that can occur at the beginning, but the rewards at the end, if it works, they're usually pretty good. And even if it doesn't work, you learn and you move on.

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: Not to get anecdotal, but I have a friend of mine who was a CMO for 20 years and that it was just one position and he was doing clinical, but both. And we were talking one day and he had some other opportunities and it's comfortable what he had. And initially I said, you got to jump in the deep end. And when he finally did give it up, initially, I think the first 6 to 12 months, like what have I done? And now he's so happy, when everything's settled.

John: It's not a trivial decision by any means, but yeah, the majority of the time works out because physicians are very resourceful and they can make it work if they are really committed to it and they enjoy it, especially. All right, we're going to run out of time here soon. So, e7 Health, it is kind of regional at this point, local? If I was in Chicago, I couldn't access e7 Health service?

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: No. We're just focusing on Southern Nevada right now. But our long-term plan is to come up with a strategy to grow nationally.

John: All right. Well, I still would recommend people look at e7health.com just to get an idea of what it looks like. It's good to look at a website and say, "Okay, what the heck has he got going?" But also at your website jonathanbaktarimd.com they can learn more about you there. We haven't talked about all your speaking engagements and you're kind of a local expert on COVID.

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: I know. We're doing a lot of teaching and we're doing a lot of COVID. We did a lot of stuff during the pandemic. A lot of that's on our website. E7 and our other projects are on the website, but yeah, it's a great way to keep up with us. And of course, if anybody wants to connect directly, LinkedIn is also an option. Go on my profile and we can connect.

John: Okay. We'll put links to everything in the show notes. Any last words of advice for a physician who's sitting on the fence right now and might be thinking about adding something to his or her plate?

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: Well, I guess the only other advice I would say is don't think like the first thing you're going to do has got to be duffing. The first thing you do will give you some insight and often people you meet during that first thing will potentially help open the door for the next thing. And it always works like that. And I know you have had administrative positions, you didn't go from, "Oh, I'm seeing patients" to a CMO. It's always one door opening another.

John: Absolutely. That is awesome advice. All right, Jonathan, thank you so much for being with us today. I've really enjoyed listening to what you've done and I'll be happy in the future to kind of see where things go.

Dr. Jonathan Baktari: Thank you so much, John.

John: All right. Bye-bye.

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The post Why This Critical Care Specialist Launched a Healthcare Technology Company – 203 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Why Locum Tenens Is the Best Way to Practice on Your Own Terms – 202

John Jurica — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:00:17 +0000

Interview with Dr. Stephanie Freeman

Today, my guest explains why locum tenens is the best way to practice on your own terms. This is especially true when starting your career following residency or fellowship.

Dr. Stephanie E. Freeman is a board-certified critical care specialist, best-selling author, speaker, and consultant. In addition, she is the expert in helping doctors discover alternative careers in medicine.

As Founder and Chief Medical Advisor of DrStephanieICU.com, Dr. Stephanie discusses real-world career strategies to help physicians “think outside the box” regarding their careers. By sharing advice on how to find alternative careers, Dr. Stephanie helps physicians practice medicine on their own terms.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete.

Stephanie earned her medical degree from the University of Alabama School of Medicine. She completed her Internal Medicine Residency at Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center and her Critical Care Fellowship at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center.

She also completed a Geriatrics Fellowship at Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center. And she obtained an MBA at Auburn University.

Locum Tenens Is the Best Way to Practice

Stephanie started working in a private medical group after completing her fellowship. The group attempted to transition from its traditional outpatient-based practice to an in-house hospital-based service. It did not go well, and ultimately Stephanie lost her job with the group as a result.

But that provided an opportunity for her to complete her MBA. And while searching for her next opportunity, she discovered locum tenens. She was amazed by the practice model. It aligned well with her needs and her desire to run other side hustles.

Coaching and Speaking

Stephanie's enthusiasm is contagious. So is her love of locum tenens as a way to practice on her own terms. If more of us would follow her example, I think we might enjoy our clinical careers much more. She has developed her speaking and coaching by teaching others about locums and other nonclinical careers.

To learn more about all that she does, you should visit her website at drstephanieicu.com. Better yet, if you want to access Stephanie’s Free 5 Step Process for getting a locums position, go to freelocumstraining.com.

Licensed to Live Conference July 16 & 17, 2021

I know that I’ll learn more about locums myself when I attend Dr. Stephanie’s presentation at the upcoming Licensed to Live Conference in Philadelphia. It’s not too late to join Stephanie and me there. I will be sharing my expertise about unconventional career options based on almost 4 years of interviews with experts on the topic.

You can learn all about the conference at www.licensedtolive.com. Don’t forget to use my Coupon Code “nonclinical” (all lower case) to get a $50 discount on the registration fee. That also lets Dr. Jarret Patton know that I invited you.

Summary

The passionate coach and speaker Dr. Stephanie Freeman explains her reasons for choosing locum tenens as the best way to practice. And she provides advice and inspiration for physicians looking to bring more freedom and success to their professional lives.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode that you can download or read.

Links for Today's Episode:

Dr. Stephanie Freeman's Web Site
Free Locum Tenens Training
Licensed to Live Conference (Use “nonclinical” coupon code for a $50 discount)

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Episode 202

- Why Is Locum Tenens a Doctor's Top Career Alternative? - Interview with Dr. Stephanie Freeman

John: In less than three weeks from the release of this episode, I will be participating in the live licensed to live conference at the Marriott Philadelphia hotel, organized and presented by Dr. Jarret Patton. I can't wait. And one of the esteemed presenters at the conference is here with me today. She's a sought-after speaker, author of several books, expert on entrepreneurship, nonclinical careers, and locum tenens where she's done a lot of. So, Dr. Stephanie Freeman, welcome to the PNC podcast.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: Thank you so much John for having me. I'm so excited and honored to be here.

John: Well, it's my pleasure because I love to hear about non-traditional careers. So that's where the locums come in. I also like to talk to other people who are doing coaching for physicians or with physicians and teaching entrepreneurship. So, we have a lot to cover today. Before we get into the nitty-gritty here, I need to know about your background a little bit and clinically what you have been doing, but where your education was. And then we can segue into what you're up to now.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: Yes. So, I'm Dr. Stephanie Freeman. I'm a double board-certified critical care physician, born and raised in Alabama. So, the accent is a real accent. I am a true southerner. I was born and raised in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. I live in Houston, Texas. So, like I said, I am a true southerner.

I did medical school at UAB School of Medicine. I did an internal medicine residency at Wake Forest University School of Medicine. Then I did a geriatrics fellowship, and then I did a critical care fellowship at the University of Pittsburgh. And then I got my MBA at Auburn University and I'm double board-certified twice over. And it's about time for me to recertify in internal medicine in 2023. And so, those recertification years, whew, they kind of come at you quickly.

And I've been doing locums since 2008. And so, I am a locum's expert. I live the locum's life. I am currently on a locum assignment in Alaska right now. I work anywhere between 14 and 21 locum shifts a month. So, I am truly living the locum's life.

John: Awesome. So, we're going to definitely get into that because I have a lot of questions about just your personal experience with locums. But I do want to segue a little bit, or at least make a right turn here because I know you're doing other things. You're teaching other physicians, you're a speaker, you've written several books. So, tell us how those activities started out.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: You know how in medical school and in residency, there was always that one physician that was always doing other stuff, that always had like a side hustle going on, that was always the one that was moonlighting? I was that physician. I was that girl. Because it goes back to how I was raised. My parents got divorced when I was young and my mother is a teacher and she just retired after 42 years of teaching. And so, my mother was the teacher and she was raising two kids on a teacher's salary and it was tough. But she always had extra jobs. In addition to the full-time teaching, she always taught extra jobs, always did extra stuff, just so that she could take care of us. And so, I picked up that from her.

And then my mom was also an entrepreneur as well. She always told us about the importance of owning your own business. Then she had always been a strong believer that entrepreneurship was the way to go. So as a matter of fact, my mother was the one who told me to go back and get my MBA because she's an English teacher. She reads, she knows about the different trends that are coming because she spends all day reading because she's an English teacher.

And so, she was like, "You really need to go back and get your MBA because I really foresee that that's something that physicians are going to need". So, I kind of had that in my bones. Always about, I love medicine, but I love entrepreneurship. And there are so many other things that I want to experience and do and be.

I would tell you that I fell into locums and that it was a fairytale story, but there are no such things as fairy tales. Actually, the way I fell into locums was the fact that after I finished my training at the University of Pittsburgh and John, you know how we are all so idealistic when we finished training. And we think that we're just going to save the world because we think that everybody's going to welcome us with open arms and experience, love us for what we have to offer as physicians who want to change the world. Well, we know it doesn't happen like that.

So, my first job out of fellowship, here I was finishing up a critical care fellowship at the University of Pittsburgh. The University of Pittsburgh was where critical care was born. So, we're all about critical care and right here, right now with the intensivist model, I had really fallen in love with Pittsburgh and I wanted to stay and there was this nice little community hospital 10 minutes from my house. And I thought I was just going to work there and settle down and get married and have a family. And that didn't work.

So, I take this job with the private group. And so, you know where I'm going with this. So, a private group, pulmonary critical care doctors, here I am coming from an academic center that was used to the intensivist model. This private pulmonary critical care group is not used to that, but they're trying to transition to an intensivist model, and needless to say it didn't work out. So, my contract was not renewed and I was devastated. Because you don't hear about physicians undergoing contract non-renewals are A.K.A being fired. Nobody tells us about that in residency and fellowship. Nobody tells us about that.

The traditional physician employment model is either you are employed as a physician or you're in private practice or you're in academics. And the traditional model is that you stay at one job forever. So, we weren't prepared. And I was not prepared for this churning of the medical marketplace. And I was surprised and devastated needless to say, but remember, I'd always been that fellow and that resident that always had a moonlighting gig. I always had something in my back pocket. So, I was just able to be like, "Okay, well this isn't working out. Let me just call so and so from the hospital down the street, I still have privileges. Let me just slide into their schedule". Fine. No worries.

Then I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And I had these other business ideas that I was kind of dibbling and dabbling in. And my mom was like, "You really need to consider getting an MBA if you're going to do all of this extra stuff". And I was like, "Sure, I'll do it".

And the way I fell into doing locums, it's the funniest thing. I was at a critical care conference with my critical care bestie. One of the locums' companies had a display and I was like, "Huh, what is this?" And they just started talking to me. I was like, cool. They explained to me what locum was, but you have to remember, I had always done moonlighting. So, I was used to that concept of sliding in, filling in for a shift or a couple of shifts where I'm needed, leave, get paid, rinse and repeat.

I was already used to that concept. So, I was like, "You can really do this". So, when I took my first locums assignment, I was like, this isn't bad because I went, worked, and had a nice time. Money was in my account the next 10 days. And at that time, I was transitioning to getting my MBA. And I was like, I'll just work enough shifts to pay my bills, to support what I need to do. And I can focus on getting my MBA. So, that's really just how I got started with my locum's journey. It was kind of by accident, but by design.

John: All right. I got a comment on some of those things. First, you're right, in terms of the traditional way that we practice, because we're the type of business as a physician that you have to usually build a practice. So, if you're going to be a hairdresser or you're going to be a barber, or you're going to be a plumber, or are going to be a physician, you want to build a practice over time. It's kind of gone out the window now with the way people are churned through, you got a two-year or three-year contract, "Oh, we're not going to renew it for whatever reason". So, there's a lot of that now. And it has changed a lot. So, you didn't know though what locums wasn't necessarily, other than what you were doing with moonlighting, but once you found out, you really were attracted to that model.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: I had no idea that it was a thing. I knew moonlighting was a thing, but I didn't know it was a thing and an entire industry. And there were higher agencies who did nothing but that. Because where we're coming through, we weren't exposed to that. And if we weren't supposed to, it was kind of like, "Oh, what's wrong with them? Why can't they get a real job?"

John: What was that first one like? Was it something that was recurring like every month after month, certain days? Or was it like a set for six weeks or weekends? How was that whole structure of that first one?

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: Maybe in a critical care physician, we work in shifts. So full-time critical care is like fourteen 12 hour shifts a month. And so, the staffing model is kind of like seven days on, seven days off 12-hour shifts either day or night shifts or day shifts with call. So, for that first assignment, I went to Pikeville, Kentucky. That's a whole nother conversation. I went to Pikeville, Kentucky. I worked at this hospital seven days in a row and took call at night. And at the time, for me, the money was bonkers. It was ridiculous. I'm like, "Y'all are paying how much money? Sign me up!" And so, I went really in the middle of nowhere, middle of Appalachian, black girl, black doctor, and I came out alive, survived it.

John: So, was that recurring? How long were you doing those seven days shifts?

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: I think I did that assignment for maybe four, maybe six months. And that's kind of typical for these things because when you take a locum's assignment it is usually because of one or two reasons. It's usually because the place is trying to build a program or they just lost some physician. So, they only need you for a couple of months until they're able to recruit and onboard their new physicians. And that's exactly what locum is. Locum is Latin for placeholder. That's exactly what you are. You're holding a place until a permanent physician arrives. And usually, they only need you for two or three months, three or four months, and you just fit into the schedule like they need you. And then it's off to the next assignment.

John: You've been doing locums for a long time, from what I understand. So, you've mentioned some of the reasons you like it or love it. Tell us some of the reasons why it's a good option for physicians. Particularly I would think someone who was looking to do something different, wants a little more freedom.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: Absolutely. It's a great option because it allows you time to transition. We are all so tired. We've been in school for 20 years. And then when you get out of school, it's this constant grind, not of just being a physician, but also of having to, like you say, build a practice or establish yourself, or build a rapport or get being an attending physician under your feet.

And then there are the finances that everybody deals with. But we're not honest enough about it. So, you got these loans or you have these other obligations you need to pay back. But then again, at the same time, you're tired of living in self-deprivation. So, then you want to have a nice lifestyle. You want a house in a nice neighborhood, in a good school district. You want to be able to start taking some vacations.

Locums gives you the opportunity to say, "Okay, this traditional medicine thing isn't working for me. And I may not have quite figured out what I want to do, but I need to figure it out. But meanwhile, I need to be able to pay my bills". Locums give you the opportunity to transition. So, you can go from being an employed physician that has a whole bunch of restrictions, because you know that the employer physician contract is very restrictive. You may not be able to moonlight. You may not be able to write a book. They want to claim your intellectual property. You may not be able to go speak anywhere. They want to give you permission. You may not be able to do case reviews or legal depositions.

When you're an employed physician, there are so many things that you can't do. Meanwhile, we are all multitalented and the whole world needs all of us. And you want to transition to some of the other things, but you still have bills to pay.

So, I look at sometimes locums as being that middle ground that's going to help you get to your promised land because you can leave traditional employment, transition to nontraditional careers, nonclinical careers, but locums will give you the finances that you can still do it. Because you can still moonlight. You can still do locums because you're an independent contractor. You're still making a great salary, but you don't have the restrictions of an employed physician.

So, these places where I go work, they know me as Dr. Freeman. They don't know me as Dr. Stephanie. They don't know that I do locum coaching. They don't know that I have books. They don't know that I have webinars. They don't know and they don't care because they've contracted with Dr. Freeman. Dr. Freeman is going to work these 14 days. Dr. Freeman is going to do her job and take care of the patients and not mix and mingle things.

While I'm working for them, I'm doing critical care work. But when I'm not at that hospital and when I'm not on the clock, what I do with my time is my time and they have no claim to it. And that's not necessarily the case when you're an employed physician. So that's what locums are able to help people do. Locums can be the bridge to, like I said, your dream life from where you're coming from.

John: Yeah, I hadn't thought about that before. I've talked to people who've done locums and it never occurred to me that it's ideal for those that are natural entrepreneurs. People diversify their income through other passive income or active income activities. So yeah, it really gives you, you just have to plan things out appropriately, obviously, during those times when you're not working as a clinician. And I would assume also it varies a little bit by your specialty. But yeah, it sounds pretty attractive.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: Oh, it is. It's amazing. I was just on the phone the other day with a gynecologist who is going through a horrible time at her job. But she's an entrepreneur and she's building an amazing beauty brand. And I'm like, "Honey, let me help you do locums so that you can fulfill your real dream and your real calling with your beauty brand and your entrepreneurship. Let me help you with that transition". Because I'm like "You know it's time for you to go. It's time for you to leave that job and transition over. And that's why you're having problems on that job because you know you need to leave. Let me help you transition through".

John: All right. We're going to talk about some of the other things you're doing, but I do want to have you maybe give us two or three landmines to avoid, so to speak, or things that we need to be a little careful about if we decide to pursue locums.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: The first thing that you really need to be careful about, I say your locum's experience is really made or broken based on the company you choose to work with. And so many physicians when they get started have a bad experience because they didn't work with the good locum's company or a good locum's recruiter who really explained the process to them. A lot of physicians ended up kind of feeling like they've been taken advantage of.

So, I would say the first thing you need to do is really vet these companies and vet these recruiters so that you can make sure that you're getting somebody who is going to treat you fairly. That's the first thing.

The second thing, and I think this is the biggest thing that a lot of physicians fall prey to, is not managing their expectations. A lot of physicians have either unrealistic expectations of what locums is, or they just don't know what to expect. And they think everything is going to go perfectly. And we physicians are type-A people and we expect everything to be done decently in order.

But one of my favorite recruiters used to say something to me that really made a difference. He said, "If these places that need your services had everything together, they wouldn't need you".

John: That's true.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: So, think about it. If they had everything together, they wouldn't need temporary physicians because their physicians wouldn't have quit or they wouldn't have been in turmoil if everything was together. So, I have to tell my physicians who are going on these assignments to keep an open mind and to go with the flow because things are not going to run smoothly. Because if everything was going to run smoothly and be perfect, they wouldn't need you to be there.

And so, once you kind of lower your expectations and be like, "Okay, it is what it is. I'm just here to see the patients and make sure these patients get the care that they need and let everything else kind of fall into place".

John: Now, at the same time, I've heard from some of my friends who have done locums that they usually welcome you. They're looking forward to having you there because they really need you.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: Yeah. Some of them are. They're like, "Oh my God, you're here. Thank you for coming. We need help". So, it's actually been kind of fun, but at the same time, you can walk into some pretty nasty political situations. And that goes back to getting a good recruiter who is giving you the 411 about what is actually going on and why you're actually there.

I've walked into some situations in which it's like the group that was there, unceremoniously lost their contract and it was a big deal. And then they're bringing locums in until they can bring the other permanent doctors there. And so, then it's a lot of chaos. It's lot of hurt feelings. People have chips on their shoulders and they're taking it on the locum's doctor. And you're like, "I'm just here to work. I don't know anything. I'm sorry". So, I've been in those situations as well too.

John: But you're there to take care of the patients, right? The patients need you. And so, you've got to fill in while they're trying to sort through their political messes.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: Exactly.

John: We're going to be at the conference in a few weeks with Dr. Jarrett Patton. And so, are you going to be covering this topic? What are you going to be talking about at the conference?

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: What I'm going to be talking about in the conference is how do we locums and considering locums during this pandemic. And the reason why I'm talking about this is because, as you know John, this COVID pandemic has completely ended the way medicine is practiced. And I think a lot of physicians are now realizing that we are seen as disposable.

We have physicians who literally put their lives on the line, continue to work throughout this pandemic, which is still going on. We worked extra hours. We faced unsafe situations. We worked with a lack of PPE. We will call it heroes and some of us got thanked by what? Getting fired? Contracts not renewed and facing pay cuts? And that's because the market has changed because money has changed. Cash flow has changed.

And so, I'm here to really talk about how physicians who are in this churning of contracts are being renegotiated because hospitals and healthcare organizations are redoing their practice models and their financial models, how physicians can utilize locums as a way to kind of shore up themselves personally and professionally and financially.

Because even though we think the pandemic is over, we physicians know it's not over. The numbers are dropping, but we know this isn't over. And we're now seeing the financial ramifications of this. I've talked to many physicians who have just lost their jobs. I've talked to many physicians whose contracts are being renegotiated and not in a favorable way.

So, I'm going to talk about how we can use locums and the types of locums that we need to be doing in order to be able to navigate these market changes that have happened as a result of this pandemic.

John: Okay. So that's going to be awesome. I'm definitely going to have links later in the show notes for the conference. Licensedtolive.com basically is going to be where you go. But I'll talk more about that in my outline. But the thing is not everyone is going to be able to come to that conference. Although I want everyone to come and say hello to both of us if they can. So, they can get some more information and training about locums from you directly, from what I understand at www.freelocumstraining.com.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: That's right.

John: So, tell us a little bit about that. What will we get out of that?

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: Yeah, this is just a little introductory course that really will give you the basics about what you need to do to get started doing locums right now. Just an easy five-step process. And I've had so many people get this and get started with it because I tell everybody the time to get started with considering locums is now. If it has crossed your mind, then it's time to get started now. And so, that's what that course is about. It's a free course, and it talks about just the steps you need to take in order to begin your locum's journey.

John: I'll put that link in there, but there is planning involved in doing locums from what I understand. So, you don't want to just jump into it and think you're going to have your first position in a week from now.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: No, no, no. I will take you through the process.

John: That'll be awesome. But now with the locums that you've done, and you're obviously creating courses for people, but you're doing some other things. I saw that you're a speaker. Can you tell us some of the venues you've talked at?

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: Yes. I have spoken at The Momentum and Medicine conference, which was amazing. I've also spoken in The Women and White Coats virtual conference. And then I also did a talk about locums for the virtual conference for the American College of Osteopathic Obstetrician and Gynecologists. And that was amazing and it was extremely well-received.

John: Very nice. And then you've got some books. I read that your most recent book is about locums. So, we can get those on Amazon, right?

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: That is correct.

John: And of course, you have your website, which is drstephanieicu.com. Also, you're doing some coaching. So, tell us about that.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: Yes. I am doing some coaching. And I have some online coaching programs and online courses because what I really want to do is to allow physicians to know that they have options. There are so many people that are on the verge of just hanging up their white coats and their stethoscopes. And I'm like, "You don't have to do that. There is a better way. Let's figure it out".

So, I do some one-on-one coaching and I also have some online courses that are designed to walk physicians through the process in more detail and tell them about not only how to get clarity about why you're doing locums, how to look for good recruiters, how to choose assignments, what is a good market rate to get paid for your assignments, but also some of the business issues and the tax issues and the legal issues that are associated with being a locums doctor and an independent contractor. So, I do have some online courses for those as well.

John: Yeah. I think that's a big thing that some physicians forget about is if you're going to be doing any kind of freelancing or locums, things like that, you really have to have your own LLC and set up the proper structure, protect yourself liability-wise.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: And pay those taxes.

John: Taxes? Oh, yeah. You've got to make those estimated tax payments during the year, or are you going to be in for a big shock at the end of the year. But it's good. You're a natural entrepreneur and your mom pushed you for that MBA. That gives you a little head start than let's say the typical physician who's come right out of residency and never thought about those things.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: You know what? I love working with residents. I do. And I think it's an excellent way for them to get started in their medical career. Because what I like to tell residents who are about to be attending is to say that "You don't know anything about your style as an attending. You don't know what you value. You don't know what's important".

And sometimes they feel a relief that they can just do locums and not have to worry about signing a three-year contract right off the bat. So, it gives them some leeway. It gives them some breathing room. It gives them six months, eight months to take some time to relax and know themselves as human beings and really a way through this job market and to make the right choice. So, anybody can do locums at any stage in their career.

John: It sounds like if you're doing it at the beginning, you get to check out some different geographic locations around the country, different structures, big groups, little groups, rural, big cities. So yeah, it makes a whole lot of sense, especially at the beginning, but I've known people that have done it at all parts of their career too.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: All parts.

John: All right, now we're going to have to go soon. So, do you have any last bits of advice for our listeners who are thinking about nonclinical careers or locums, or other nontraditional careers?

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: I say, go for it. There are so many opportunities out there. And I say, do your research, keep an open mind, but don't be afraid to go for it. And the time is now.

John: Awesome. Great words of wisdom. I can't wait to talk to you face to face in Philadelphia in a few weeks. That's going to be fun and we're going to really try to inspire the guests that come and listen to the students and people that attend. And so, before we go, I will, again, recommend if you are interested in locums to go to www.freelocumstraining.com or go to drstephanieicu.com to see everything else that Stephanie is up to. And I want to thank you for being here today. It's been great. And I think my listeners are going to love this episode.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: Thanks for having me and I'll see you in Philadelphia.

John: Okay. Bye-bye now.

Dr. Stephanie Freeman: Bye.

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The post Why Locum Tenens Is the Best Way to Practice on Your Own Terms – 202 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Be Creative and Design the Career That You Really Love – 139

John Jurica — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 10:45:23 +0000

Interview with Dr. Uchenna Umeh

On this week’s episode of the PNC podcast, Dr. Uchenna Umeh, also known as “Dr. Lulu” and the “Momatrician,” describes how you can find a career that you really love.

Uchenna spent the early part of her career in a traditional pediatric practice. When she decided she needed a change of pace, she enlisted in the Air Force. She completed her time there, and entered traditional practice. But she was struck by the extent of the mental health issues in her patients and experienced a harsh wake-up call when a young patient of hers attempted suicide.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country, with over 650 graduates. And, unlike other programs, which typically run 1 – 1/2 to 2 years, this program only takes a year to complete. Recently, Economist Magazine ranked the business school #1 in the world for the Most Relevant Executive MBA.

While in the program, you'll participate in a company project, thereby contributing to your organization. As a result, University of Tennessee PEMBA students bring exceptional value to their organizations.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations. And they've become entrepreneurs and business owners.

By joining the University of Tennessee physician executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills needed to find the career that you really love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office by calling (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Direct Primary Care

Several colleagues and a relative of Uchenna's also attempted to end their lives. She felt she was being called to a higher purpose. After seeing the positive response she received when speaking on the topic at her son’s school, she left “penicillin pediatrics” and focused her efforts on helping troubled teens.

Your best legacy might very well be the one that you haven't even looked into.

She honed her message, and started speaking regularly on the topics of bullying, depression and mental health issues in children and teens. She provided telemedicine services to make ends meet between speaking engagements. And she realized that she also wanted help to individual patients. So, she opened her direct primary care (DPC) practice to families with struggling teenagers.

Depression vs. Mental Anguish

During our conversation, Uchenna makes an important distinction between depression and mental anguish, using an example from her personal life. Depression, she says, is misconstrued as the primary cause of suicide, when mental anguish is often the underlying trigger. Much of it is situational, rather than biochemical. Hence, the question shouldn’t be “Why do you want to end your life?” but rather, “What happened?”

By sharing stories and asking the right questions, Uchenna’s patients find they can overcome such challenges.

We're united by our storylines. We are connected by our storylines. What if you talk about yours, I talk about mine, and we also are talking about ours?

Design a Career That You Really Love, Too

Uchenna has a small but significant practice working exclusively with troubled children. Her patients make appointments with her as they need, and call her cell phone in a crisis. She sees patients three days a week, leaving two days for her writing, traveling and podcasting. She believes that you can follow her example to find a career that you really love, too.

Summary

Uchenna continues seeing patients and is expanding her writing and speaking. She started her podcast, Suicide Pages, to shed light on these issues. There, she interviews guests who have faced and overcome their struggles.

“Dr. Lulu” has also written two books, How to Raise Well-Rounded Children (Dr. Lulu's “How To” Series Book 1) and A Teen's Life: Looking at Teen's Lives Through Their Daily Struggles. The former is about raising children using eager and open communication. The latter is a look into the lives of struggling teens.

Thanks for listening today. I appreciate your interest and support. Next week, join me and Dr. Andrew Wilner as he explains why he loves the locum life! Maybe you can use locums to create the career that you really love, too.

Links for Today's Episode

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Thanks to our sponsor…

Thanks to the UT Physician Executive MBA program for sponsoring the show. It’s an outstanding, highly rated, MBA program designed for working physicians. It is just what you need to prepare for that fulfilling, well-paying career. You can find out more at nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

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Many of the links that I refer you to, and that you’ll find in the show notes, are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you, that I have personally used or am very familiar with.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. It should not be construed as medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counsellor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career.

The post Be Creative and Design the Career That You Really Love – 139 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

The Best Solution to Burnout Is an Interesting Side Gig – 121

John Jurica — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 11:15:00 +0000

Interview with Dr. Nisha Mehta

On this week’s episode of the PNC podcast, Dr. Nisha Mehta explains why engaging in an interesting side gig may be the best way to ensure a long and fulfilling medical career.

Dr. Mehta is a writer, speaker and physician advocate who focuses on issues related to life in medicine and the changing healthcare landscape. Her missions include:

addressing the physician burnout epidemic through physician empowerment and cultural change in medicine, and
increasing business and financial literacy of physicians in order to promote career longevity and satisfaction.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country, with over 650 graduates. Unlike other programs, which typically run 1 – 1/2 to 2 years, this program only takes a year to complete. And Economist Magazine recently ranked Haslam #1 in the world for the Most Relevant Executive MBA.

University of Tennessee PEMBA students bring exceptional value to their organizations. While in the program, you'll participate in a company project, thereby contributing to your organization.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations. And they've become entrepreneurs and business owners.

By joining the University of Tennessee physician executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to advance your career. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office by calling (865) 974-6526 or go to vitalpe.net/physicianmba.

Pursuing Your Passion

Dr. Mehta is a radiologist with subspecialty training in musculoskeletal and breast imaging. She received her undergraduate degree in neuroscience at Brown University, and her medical degree at the University of Pennsylvania. Then she completed her radiology residency at NYU followed by fellowship training at UNC-Chapel Hill.

Nisha is also the founder of the Facebook group Physician Side Gigs, with over 50,000 verified physician members. This group is an online community that aims to bring physicians together to discuss and promote business and financial skills. It also encourages physicians to think outside the box to create the life in medicine that they want.

In this episode, Nisha explains how she, unintentionally at first, expanded her career to include nonclinical work. Though she knew early in life that she wanted to be a physician, she always had a passion for writing. It was through that hobby that she stumbled onto an audience interested in the little-talked-about topics she was tackling.

A Changing Culture

Nisha found that the culture of clinical medicine discouraged the discussion of factors that affect professionals’ careers. But her audience proved that people like her wanted to approach subjects like:

professional women's issues,
the changing culture of medicine,
the need for more flexibility in the workplace, and
other stressors like student loans.

Interesting Side Gigs Prevent Burnout

Through Physician Side Gigs, she created a resource where she and other medical professionals could ask and answer questions surrounding those topics. And it enabled physicians to discuss their passion projects and alternative revenue streams.

Whether physicians join the group looking for sources of additional income or tips for pursuing a deprioritized passion, Nisha encourages them to find their own interesting side gig. Such side businesses and hobbies reduce burnout by bringing joy and novelty to their lives. This leads to longer and more fulfilling clinical careers.

There are other aspects of who we were before we went into medical school that I don't think should be lost just because we have a very demanding career.
Dr. Nisha Mehta

Nisha offers advice for making the most of the Physician Side Gigs Facebook Group, including:

Search the group for topics of interest, and get a feel of previous discussions and advice.
Do research before posting and keep your questions as specific as possible.
Use PhysicianSideGigs.com as an additional resource for your questions.

Listen to this complete episode using the player above to hear Nisha's expert advice for making the most of your medical career by exploring your own interesting side gigs.

Links for today's episode:

Thanks to our sponsor…

Thanks to the UT Physician Executive MBA program for sponsoring the show. It’s an outstanding, highly rated, MBA program designed for working physicians. It might be just what you need to prepare for that joyful, well-paying career. You can find out more at vitalpe.net/physicianmba.

I hope to see you next time on the PNC Podcast.

If you enjoyed today’s episode share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton.

Disclaimers:

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. It should not be construed as medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counsellor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career.

Right click here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Here are the easiest ways to listen:

vitalpe.net/itunes – vitalpe.net/stitcher

The post The Best Solution to Burnout Is an Interesting Side Gig – 121 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

This Coach Is the Ultimate Physician Advocate – 118

John Jurica — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:00:00 +0000

Interview with Dr. Jarret Patton

On this week's episode of the PNC podcast, I have the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Jarret Patton, author, speaker and the ultimate physician advocate.

Jarret is a successful physician hospital leader and beloved pediatrician. Recently, he has devoted his efforts to speaking, writing and coaching physicians and other leaders.

That transition was not part of his career plan. It occurred following an unexpected life-altering situation. In today’s interview, Jarret explains what happened and how it changed his career trajectory.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country, with over 650 graduates. Unlike other programs, which typically run 1 – 1/2 to 2 years, this program only takes a year to complete. And Economist Magazine recently ranked the business school #1 in the world for the Most Relevant Executive MBA.

University of Tennessee PEMBA students bring exceptional value to their organizations. While in the program, you'll participate in a company project, thereby contributing to your organization.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations. And they've become entrepreneurs and business owners.

Dr. Patton's Background

Dr. Jarret Patton is a coach, national speaker, award-winning author, and podcaster. He worked for many years as a pediatrician and hospital leader prior to beginning his full-time nonclinical activities and becoming the ultimate physician advocate.

He received his medical degree from Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine, and completed his pediatric residency at New York University and Bellevue Hospitals.

Jarret is the founder and CEO of DoctorJarret, PLLC, a firm which helps educate, enlighten, and improve healthcare. He does this through his books, coaching programs, and public speaking.

I always enjoy talking with Jarret. He is so positive and encouraging. He reached a high point in his medical leadership career, balancing his position as the medical executive for an eight-hospital system with part-time clinical duties.

However, his career took a sudden unexpected detour when he became embroiled in a legal matter that resulted in the temporary loss of his job, and suspension of his medical license. With the support of his family and friends, and a capable attorney, he fought the necessary legal battles to clear his name.

But the trauma of that experience opened his eyes to the huge legal and financial risks that physicians face. In reaching out to others in similar situations, he was struck by the lack of due process. He discovered numerous situations in which physicians' lives had been destroyed by unsubstantiated accusations and unaccountable state licensing boards and so-called physician health committees.

The Ultimate Physician Advocate

That is what inspired Jarret to pivot to a career in which he supports other physicians facing similar challenges. He has shifted elegantly to speaking, writing and coaching, with a focus on leadership and career transition for physicians experiencing these kinds of life-altering allegations.

One of the most common themes of every story… is that we as physicians aren't prepared for this type of assault.
Dr. Jarret Patton

I’ve gotten to know Jarret since first hearing about him and reading his book: “Licensed to Live: A Primer to Rebuilding Your Life After Your Career Has Been Shattered.”* one year ago. His ability to shift gears in the face of adversity, and not become cynical in the process, is a testament to his core values and integrity.

I first had the opportunity to speak with him on his podcast, also called Licensed to Live. You can listen to our conversation by going to your favorite podcast app, or his web site at doctorjarret.com. He is definitely someone you should follow.

If you find yourself in a similar situation, and need help working through the process, you can reach out to Jarret using the links below. He's also available to speak to medical groups and hospital staffs to explain how to avoid these career-crushing threats.

Links for today's episode:

(* These are affiliate links)

Thanks to our sponsor…

I hope to see you next time on the PNC Podcast.

If you enjoyed today’s episode share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton.

Disclaimers:

Right click here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer .

Here are the easiest ways to listen:

vitalpe.net/itunes or vitalpe.net/stitcher

The post This Coach Is the Ultimate Physician Advocate – 118 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

How to Develop a Passionate Side Hustle – 098

John Jurica — Wed, 17 Jul 2019 11:25:29 +0000

Interview with Dr. Alfred Atanda

This week on the podcast, Dr. Alfred Atanda, Jr. describes how he developed a side hustle that brings balance to his clinical practice. We explore his experiences developing expertise in telehealth, and helping others to bring similar passions into their professional lives.

Alfred provides an illuminating look into the growing world of telemedicine. And he makes a strong case for its role in providing quality care, freeing up resources, and preventing physician burnout.

A Natural Interest in Sports Medicine

Alfred was an avid soccer player growing up. His passion for sports and his skill in orthopedic surgery made sports medicine a natural choice. As a result, Dr. Atanda decided to pursue pediatric sports medicine and orthopedic surgery.

A graduate of the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, he completed an internship and an orthopedic surgery residency at the University of Chicago Medical Center. Alfred also completed fellowships in pediatric orthopedic surgery, at Alfred I DuPont Hospital for Children, and in sports medicine surgery, at the Rothman Institute at Thomas Jefferson University.

Alfred now practices at the Alfred I. duPont Hospital for Children in Wilmington, Delaware, where he is the director of the Center for Sports Medicine. He performs arthroscopic surgery as well as general orthopedic and trauma surgical procedures.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country, with over 650 graduates. Unlike other programs, which typically run 1 – 1/2 to 2 years, this program only takes a year to complete. And Economist Magazine recently ranked the business school #1 in the world for the Most Relevant Executive MBA.

University of Tennessee PEMBA students bring exceptional value to their organizations. While in the program, you'll participate in a company project, thereby contributing to your organization.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations. And they've become entrepreneurs and business owners.

Why Telehealth?

While on a phone call with a patient experiencing an issue with his brace, the patient suggested using FaceTime. Once able to see the brace, Alfred quickly corrected the issue. Afterward, he realized that the FaceTime interaction precluded the need for a follow-up visit scheduled for later that week.

The patient lived in the Delaware Beaches, so this meant saving him and his parents a 100-mile drive. All for a five minute post-operative visit. This experience led Alfred to explore how to offer remote consultations.

Benefits for patients and providers

In discussing the benefits of telehealth offerings, Dr. Atanda notes that they are not limited to patients. Providers and hospitals also have much to gain from the technology. Most patients are simply looking for information, guidance, or reassurance, particularly in the post-operative stage.

The first 90 days after surgery are not billable. This means that by connecting with post-operative patients remotely, telehealth physicians are saving their patients’ time and energy, the hospital or clinic’s resources, and freeing up space for patients that need in-person care.

An unexpected benefit that Dr. Atanda discovered was an improvement in his own wellbeing. Clinical practice can be grueling. By offering telehealth consultations, Dr. Atanda found that he was able to spend more time with his family and to travel without feeling like he was neglecting his patients.

Passing it on

After finding his own path to a more fulfilling balance of life and work, Alfred began to consult and speak on the subject. He feels that telehealth can be a useful tool for a wide range of physicians. However, he recognizes that it is not a fix-all.

“My goal is to help other docs find that joy again”
Alfred Atanda

His journey has not only given him a wealth of expertise in telehealth programs. It has also given him a unique perspective on finding joy and meaning in work as a physician. He believes it's important to explore one's passions and find ways to integrate them into one's life to bring more balance and enjoyment.

Summary

Alfred wants to share what he has learned through this experience. By pursuing this new interest, he found himself organically growing a fulfilling side hustle in telehealth and consulting that enhances his clinical work. He believes he can help other physicians find similar ways to strike a healthy work-life balance in their lives.

Finding new work that reignites joy and passion can ease the burden of an intense medical practice. By doing just that, Dr. Atanda was able to improve his own life and restore his passion for clinical medicine.

Links for today's episode:

Dr. Alfred Atanda's LinkedIn Page
Dr. Atanda's email address: orthotelecon@gmail.com
See above notes for additional links

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The post How to Develop a Passionate Side Hustle – 098 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

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