In today's episode, Dr. Lara Hochman returns to the podcast to share her insights on finding joy when seeking a new practice.

Through Dr. Hochman's company, Happy Day Health, she matches physicians with private practices that prioritize their well-being and financial stability.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career you love. To learn more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

For Podcast Listeners

• John hosts a short Weekly Q&A Session addressing any topic related to physician careers and leadership. Each discussion is now posted for you to review and apply. Sometimes all it takes is one insight to take you to the next level of your career. Check out the Weekly Q&A and join us for only $5.00 per month.
• If you want access to dozens of lessons dedicated to nonclinical and unconventional clinical careers, you should join the Nonclinical Career Academy MemberClub. For a small monthly fee, you can access the Weekly Q&A Sessions AND as many lessons and courses as you wish. Click the link to check it out, and use the Coupon Code “FIRSTMONTHFIVE” to get your first month for only $5.00.
• The 2024 Nonclinical Summit is over. But you can access all the fantastic lectures from our nationally recognized speakers, including Dr. Dike Drummond, Dr. Nneka Unachukwu, Dr. Gretchen Green, and Dr. Mike Woo-Ming. Go to Nonclinical Summit and enter Coupon Code “30-OFF” for a $30 discount.

Your Guide to a Stress-Free Medical Career

Dr. Lara Hochman introduces the Stress-Free Physician Career Guide, a free email course designed to help physicians navigate the job market with confidence. This resource covers essential topics such as vetting potential practices based on personal values, choosing the right employer, and negotiating salaries. By providing this guide, Lara aims to equip physicians with the knowledge they need to make informed career decisions and find positions that align with their aspirations and values.

Avoiding Common Pitfalls in Job Selection

One of the most common mistakes physicians make when choosing an employer is focusing solely on salary. Dr. Lara Hochman warns against this approach, advising physicians to consider factors like work-life balance, practice culture, and support systems. She emphasizes the importance of thoroughly vetting potential practices by speaking with current physicians and staff. By understanding what truly matters to them and asking the right questions, physicians can avoid pitfalls and find fulfilling positions that offer more than just a paycheck.

Dr. Lara Hochman's Advice on The Importance of Knowing What You Want

Knowing what you're looking for first, and then just going out and finding that… It's very cool to see when I work with physicians who know exactly what they want, and I find them that and they land the job and they're happy.

Summary

By thoroughly vetting practices and asking the right questions, physicians can find fulfilling positions that enhance their work-life balance and overall happiness. For more resources and information, visit Happy Day Health and connect with Dr. Hochman on LinkedIn or Instagram.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Dr. Lara Hochman's Website at Happy Day Health
• Dr. Lara Hochman's LinkedIn Page
• The Stress-Free Physicians Career Guide

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 363

Avoid These Mistakes When Seeking a New Practice

- Interview with Dr. Lara Hochman

John: As I've mentioned in previous episodes of the show, I'm becoming more and more convinced that we as physicians can find happiness in medical practice. I focus a lot on nonclinical careers, but I'm seeing more and more about practices that are really fun to be a part of. My guest today was here a couple of years ago, and she was talking about those situations because she matches physicians with practices. And so, I thought I'd have her come back to kind of complete that conversation. With that, I want to just say that I'm happy to have Dr. Lara Hochman here on the podcast again. Hi, Lara.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Hi, thank you so much for having me back. I'm so excited.

John: Well, good. You've been continuing to do what you were doing back then, in terms of connecting physicians with practices. I've talked to a lot of people, but I don't actually do the connecting and I never have a chance to really follow up with people necessarily if they've been on the podcast. I'm really looking for some of your advice and wisdom on this. But tell us a little bit about where things have gone, let's say in the last year and a half or two years since we spoke in terms of Happy Day Health and what you're doing, and remind our listeners as to what exactly we're talking about.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Sure. As the medical matchmaker, I created Happy Day Health as a company that really helps to match physicians with physician owned private practices. And these are practices that I have vetted, that I believe treat their physicians well, that are financially viable, and that are great places to work.

And I do this because I think it's important for us before deciding to make that leap into nonclinical medicine or to make that leap into all the dire things that we as physicians, look at what the other options are out there because there's some awesome places to work. And that's by having more physicians in private practice, this is how we really regain our voice as a physician community.

John: I agree a hundred percent. And so, I think it's going to be very useful for us to learn from you what we should really be looking at to optimize that situation. I have my ideas, but I'm not even going to get into that. And one of the things I noticed when I was looking at your website again, and reviewing some of your videos and that is that you created a new resource that I hadn't seen before called the Stress-Free Physician Career Guide. So why don't you tell us about that? Because I think our listeners, many will be interested in accessing that.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah, this is an email course, it's completely free. And it runs through a little bit about vetting those practices for yourself. If you're looking for a job and trying to figure out what does that job even look like? Or how do you vet a practice according to your values? Because what's an ideal practice for me is not going to be the ideal practice for you. So using what you know about your values and what your dream job looks like, how do you use that to vet the practice and see if it's correct for you? And then how do you select your ideal employer? How do you negotiate your salary? So, it's just a very nice, easy, free resource for physicians to help answer a lot of the questions that I get repeatedly. And that are so important to know how to do.

John: Yeah, I talked to a lot of coaches by virtue of doing the podcast. And for many of them, the first step is always about identifying what your passion is, or what your goals are, or what your principles are, or vision, those kinds of things, you're starting a new business. And so it sounds like you start there, and then you just go even beyond that is to dig into exactly what you might be looking for.

One of the things that I used to advise people that were looking for a job in the hospital setting was the same thing was, make a list of everything you do, let's say in a day or a week, and separate them by what you love doing and what you hate doing, and then try and find a career that will optimize what you love and get rid of all of what you hate. So where do we find the career guide? I don't want to forget about sending people to the right place.

Dr. Lara Hochman: If you head to my website, which is www.happydayhealth.co, there's a tab at the top, the stress-free physician career guide, go ahead, and it'll be right there.

John: Just start filling it out and using it. Okay, cool. One of the ways I like to look at some things sometimes when people are thinking about their career, and it's kind of like clickbait when you look at the internet, but it's like mistakes to avoid. That's why I'm going to ask you questions about mistakes that we can avoid. So, let's start with, I'm assuming that you're dealing mostly with physicians who are coming from practice, maybe they're coming fresh out of residency or fellowship, but they're probably going to start as an employee. They may not end up that way, and I guess I'll ask you about that in a minute, but what's the biggest mistake when choosing an employer? Should we just go with the one that pays us the most? Or how do we find out for sure that we're going to like being at, working with some group, assuming mostly it's going to be a physician group?

Dr. Lara Hochman: That's funny, that would probably be the biggest mistake that I see is just going with the one that pays the most. And I totally get it. Yeah, it's not even desperate. It's the loans and I want to get paid my worth and I want to feel well compensated. And those are all very valid. But in doing that, there's a lot of other things that get overlooked a lot.

Maybe besides compensation, and I was speaking with a financial advisor once who said the best paying job is probably your red flag. That's the red flag is if it pays really well. You can think of it that way. But, yeah, it's definitely interesting how pay structure works. And especially in the insurance model and how insurance companies pay hospitals versus FQHCs versus private practice. That's all important to take into account.

But I would say the other biggest mistake, oh, gosh, it's so hard to narrow it down to one. One of the ones is interviewing too many places, which sounds silly, almost, but what I tend to see is that then you go into analysis paralysis, so you don't know what you're looking for beforehand. Then you're interviewing at multiple practices, you get multiple offers, they're all a little bit different from each other. What ends up happening is you just shut down. When you have too many tabs open in your brain, and these are big tabs. This is a big life decision. And then it often people just end up picking the highest paying one.

So, knowing what you're looking for first, and then just going out and finding that. It's very cool to see when I work with physicians who know exactly what they want, and I find them that and they land the job and they're happy, like, easy peasy versus the ones and typically those are the younger new grads or anything don't really know what they want yet. And they just look everywhere. And then sometimes they'll lose opportunities because they take too long. And that may have been this incredible opportunity that they've lost. So, that would be a big one. And one that I think would be pretty unexpected.

Another one is not vetting the practice appropriately. You hear a lot of times, even in physician owned practices of a bait and switch they promised me this, but then I got that. And it's actually pretty easy to avoid that situation just by speaking with physicians that are already in the practice saying, well, an example is a physician I recently placed in this pretty cool practice. She came from a bait and switch situation where she was a high producer. She wanted to see a lot of patients. She was promised a lot of patients and she was paid purely on production, which is great potentially, but turns out they couldn't even fill her schedule more than five patients a day. That's something that could have been avoided. So, not vetting the practice appropriately is really important. So you don't get into the bait and switch situation.

John: Yeah. I was chatting with a physician recently that I know very well and he's fresh out of residency a year or so ago. And he had that exact situation. It looked like a good practice. It was actually physician run and owned have been around a long time, but his volume was nowhere near what they said it would be. They practically guaranteed it, although not in the contract of course. And he wasn't making anywhere near because the productivity kicked in at the end of the first year and he was still in the process of building his practice. So that was rough for sure. And he's gone somewhere else now, which is very disruptive.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah. It's so important to know what you're getting yourself into. And on the flip side, the practices that are hiring, it's expensive to hire doctors and you don't want to tell them the wrong thing and then have them arrive and realize it's something different and leave. Because then you've lost many tens of thousands of hundreds of thousands of dollars by hiring someone unnecessarily. So, practices need to be honest as well. It's really a two way street.

John: And I think we talked about this last time that maybe physicians don't have deep pockets. If they're a small group, three, five, 10, whatever, even a group of 20, they don't have the resources of a large hospital system. So focusing on the pay is probably, the cultures of those two situations are completely different. Again, it gets back to what you said before about focusing on the, just the pay.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah. There's so much more to that. And especially with how much we want a good quality of life as we should, those are really important things to look at. What's your work-life balance going to be like, what what's the culture of the practice going to be like, will you have a voice? Will you have autonomy? Will admin listen to you? Do you have support? There's so many things that are going to be important to avoid burnout. That's really should not be overlooked. It's really important.

John: What about to switch gears a little bit, just in terms of negotiating everyone, maybe you find the ideal practice, looks like it would be ideal, but you do have to go through that process. So maybe mistakes you might see related to negotiating the contract once it gets to that point.

Dr. Lara Hochman: The big things are around transparency. I don't really see negotiating as I'm going to say what I want and you say what you want and it's buttheads until someone has to give in. Negotiating really is coming to an agreement on what works on both sides. And really working towards that together, I think is so important.

If you're just closed mind and you're like, I want X, Y, Z, and this is it, or else you're probably not going to get anywhere. You're not going to get what you want and versus using the example of tail malpractice insurance, I went tail, the practice doesn't want to provide tail. Well, maybe you can meet in the middle and see how it'll work for both. Obviously, tail is going to be less expensive for something like pediatrics than it would for OB-GYN or neurosurgery. But if I stay three years, perhaps you can pay 50%. If I stay, stay five years, you'll pay 100%, whatever it is, but trying to find something that works for both ends. Because if you're going to ask a new an OBGYN practice to pay your $100,000 tail, if you leave off to one year, that's probably not fair. Seeing it from both sides really is important, when it comes to negotiating for sure.

John: When I was CMO of a hospital, I used to do a lot of contract negotiations. And when I came away with, once I left was yeah, a small practice is not going to be able to put all that money out after one year of work and you just leave. But if you're working for a large hospital system, I put my foot down and say, look, this is the cost of doing business in that situation. But when it comes to, you got to give your physician partners a little bit of a break. If you're talking about tail for a very high cost specialty, that makes perfect sense. Anything else in the contracts that you've found maybe have been stumbling blocks that maybe unnecessarily prevented someone from accepting a relatively good or very good position?

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah, actually recently I had a physician, wonderful physician with an incredible practice who she had her dollar amount that she wanted to earn and just wasn't realistic. She didn't want to see a whole bunch of patients. So, unfortunately the math didn't work. But she was coming from a big hospital system that could blow money and was burnt out seeing 20 patients a day coming to a small private practice who had scribes admin support. When you're done, you're done. Awesome culture. This practice is just exemplary, really, really good practice, good morals, good ethics. But they see far more patients a day than this physician was used to.

And what it ended up coming down to was the practice said, we love this physician. We would love to have her join our team. However, she'd be seeing half the amount of patients we are and getting paid more. And we can't justify it. We can't that she's not even bringing in the revenue to be able to justify her salary.

I think knowing what it is that you're asking is so important. And that comes back down to the win-win situation that we were talking about earlier, but understanding what it is you're asking for before asking for it, and then truly actually listening to what the practice is saying back, because you may lose the job opportunity of your lifetime. And you may have been willing to take that lower salary, but because you didn't quite play ball, so to speak not take part in that two-way conversation, you may lose something that could be really cool.

John: Yeah, because every practice is totally different. And if one is very efficient, it has a lot of support like you said, they had scribes. That gets rid of a lot of work. Oh boy, that's probably based on just, again, she was fixated on one thing, and that was the most important, and she wasn't going to listen to any kind of alternatives.

Well, again, that gets back to the vetting. When I think about vetting like hospital systems, there's a lot of data out there publicly, probably not so much for physicians, but give us a few examples. Who should they talk to if they're trying to vet a practice? I can imagine there's be dozens of different approaches to trying to get information, including maybe talking to some of the patients, but what do most of your clients do to try and learn as much as they can about an opportunity?

Dr. Lara Hochman: The first step is in the interview. Really, there are almost no wrong questions. There's wrong ways to ask certain questions. But if there's something that you're afraid to ask, it probably means it's one of the most important things to ask. So, I'll have doctors who say this is really important to me, but I'm afraid to ask it. I really want to be a partner, but I don't want to scare them away, but if that's something that's really important to you, you definitely want to ask. It goes back to knowing your values and knowing what's important to you, and that's where that starts. Ask the hard questions. Definitely not just ask them, but ask them in a nice way. How would you want to be asked certain questions? Speak with other physicians that are already in the practice. If you're interviewing with a practice that only has one physician or one clinician, speak to the office manager. Speak to the medical assistants. Look at the turnover rate.

So, if the practice is turning over their office managers or billing people, that's potentially a red flag. So, look at that. If there's no one to speak to, well, that's not really very good. And then you want to ask those people about things that are important to you. You can ask around in the community. What I like to do when I'm interviewing for jobs or I actually went to a practice as a patient who now ended up being a repeat client of mine, but when I was in the waiting room, I was speaking with the receptionist and asking her what's it like working for this practice? She didn't know who I was. She didn't even know that I was evaluating if I wanted to work with them as help them find a doctor. But speaking with as many people as you can is one of the most important things. And if there are more than one physician in the practice, those are the people you want to speak to.

John: Okay. This is a question I think that my listeners will have. So, you've connected these physicians with practices. It's mostly physician run practices. Do the majority of those, are they looking for eventual partnership? Are some of them looking just to remain an employee, if it suits them? What's your experience been with that sort of goal?

Dr. Lara Hochman: It's about 50-50, I would say. The practices that are looking for partners, part of how I vet it is are they actually looking for a partner or are they just saying you're a partner so that they'll draw you in? Yeah, the practices that I work with that are looking for a partner are looking for a true partner. They want someone to bounce business ideas off of. They want someone to help them grow their practice. They want someone to be a part of the business, and typically they will start teaching you that before you become partners so that at the time of partnership, you can hit the ground running.

John: Okay. Another question that might come up, I'm thinking for my listeners. We've heard a lot about physicians going into practice that they love. And one of the options that some of the solo people have done that I've talked to have gone into a DPC. And I think I saw that one of your listings had specifically mentioned that. So, where does that fall in this? Are many of your practices that you're working with, are they DPCs? Are more going that way? What's your feedback on that whole situation?

Dr. Lara Hochman: There's definitely more DPCs opening up for sure. There's no question about that. As more people learn about it, it's such an attractive option. Some of my practices are direct primary care, direct specialty care or concierge. I wouldn't say the majority yet. I imagine that will change as more and more practices open, but it's an incredible option. It's really great.

John: Okay. All right. I'm trying to think of other questions that I've been asked personally, or that I have. Those are the top things that I was interested in learning about. And I mean, it sounds very hopeful to me. I think I'm going to have to get some more guests running DPCs and things like that. Tell us your website again, where can we find you and where can we look for the Stress-Free Physician Career Guide?

Dr. Lara Hochman: My website is www.happytohealth.co. Please check it out. That's where I have all of my jobs posted that I'm currently helping. You can sign up if there's something you don't see that you want, you can sign up and I'll let you know when something does come up for that. The Stress-Free Physician Career Guide is on there. There's a link to a course that I ran on opening your own practice. Anything is on there. I'm on social media, LinkedIn, Laura Hockman MD is where I'm the most active. I am on Instagram, Happy Day MD, I think. I don't even know.

John: I forget where my social media is. But yes, definitely. I saw the YouTube videos. So they're definitely going to be found there. You've been on another podcast, I'm sure, where you address this issue. So we can look for you there. All right. I guess I'm going to let you go in a minute here. But I'm just thinking, okay, if you're currently an employed physician, you're in a practice or working for a large corporation, you're probably doing the usual insurance company driven healthcare and you're getting miserable, any other advice you have just in general for how these people should think about the rest of their careers while they're feeling miserable?

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah, we got one life, we have to enjoy it. There'll be no job that's going to be good 100% of the time. But if you're miserable, why wait? What are you waiting for? If you're so unhappy, there's going to be something better, whether it's nonclinical, and that's where your podcast really can come in handy, or something clinical is out there that you enjoy, I would say, open up your mind. There's a lot of where we feel like we need to be practicing one way or we need to do it one way or another.

What have you got to lose? Take a job that sees less patients, take a job that if you want to stay clinical, think about what it is you actually don't like about your job. And most of what I hear is not clinical part, it's the admin part. So there's jobs available out there where you can still see patients and still do good in the world, and not have to deal with all the admin stuff. So you got this, it's just a matter of finding what you want, but knowing what you want first, so that you can go out and find it.

John: Yeah, so many physicians obviously want to be taking care of patients. And like you said earlier, there may be that practice not that far away that just has scribes, and you don't have to deal with the EMR as much as you do now, or whatever that issue might be. I think things are starting to turn for the better. I really appreciate you doing what you do and sharing these updates with us from time to time so that we keep the faith. Thanks again for being here today, Lara.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

John: You're welcome. I'll hopefully talk to you again next year or two.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Great.

John: Bye-bye.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Bye.

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The post Avoid These Mistakes When Seeking a New Practice appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

I’ve invited a former guest from 2020 to show us how he created the private practice of the future while simultaneously growing a business start-up.

Dr. Phil Boucher has been in private practice since 2014. He is known for integrating cutting-edge technologies into his practice, and for helping other physicians communicate better with patients, improve productivity, and understand marketing. 

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career you love. To learn more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

For Podcast Listeners

• John hosts a short Weekly Q&A Session addressing any topic related to physician careers and leadership. Each discussion is now posted for you to review and apply. Sometimes all it takes is one insight to take you to the next level of your career. Check out the Weekly Q&A and join us for only $5.00 per month.
• If you want access to dozens of lessons dedicated to nonclinical and unconventional clinical careers, you should join the Nonclinical Career Academy MemberClub. For a small monthly fee, you can access the Weekly Q&A Sessions AND as many lessons and courses as you wish. Click the link to check it out, and use the Coupon Code “FIRSTMONTHFIVE” to get your first month for only $5.00.
• The 2024 Nonclinical Summit is over. But you can access all the fantastic lectures from our nationally recognized speakers, including Dr. Dike Drummond, Dr. Nneka Unachukwu, Dr. Gretchen Green, and Dr. Mike Woo-Ming. Go to Nonclinical Summit and enter Coupon Code “30-OFF” for a $30 discount.

Dr. Phil Boucher Creates the Private Practice of the Future

Dr. Phil Boucher is revolutionizing private medical practices with his innovative tools, OpenSpot and Practice Leads. OpenSpot fills last-minute appointment cancellations via automated text messaging, easing the administrative burden and maximizing capacity. Practice Leads offers a HIPAA-compliant CRM that centralizes patient communications, ensuring no potential patient is overlooked and automating follow-ups.

Dr. Boucher’s approach combines technology with personalized care, advocating for physicians to embrace private practice for greater autonomy and job satisfaction. By providing tools to streamline operations and nurture patient relationships, he helps physicians create thriving, independent practices that deliver exceptional care. His vision for the future of private practice blends efficiency with a personal touch, benefiting both physicians and patients.

Revolutionizing Appointment Management with OpenSpot

Dr. Phil Boucher highlights how OpenSpot addresses the common issue of last-minute cancellations in medical practices. By leveraging text messaging, OpenSpot fills scheduling gaps without burdening administrative staff with endless phone calls. The platform integrates seamlessly with existing systems like email, Slack, or Teams, ensuring real-time updates on filled slots. Available nationwide, OpenSpot can be set up within a week, offering a streamlined solution that enhances efficiency and patient satisfaction.

Empowering Physicians to Embrace Autonomy and Fun in Practice

I think physicians are often afraid because they feel like business is too hard… There's a way to figure out how to go into business for yourself and to practice medicine or to serve the people that you feel called to serve… It can be really fun and… profitable and you can really enjoy your life more.

Summary

To learn more, book a demo, or connect with Dr. Boucher, visit findopenspot.com and getpracticeleads.com. Additionally, Dr. Boucher is accessible via text for direct communication and support. His commitment to improving private practice is evident in his willingness to engage and assist fellow physicians in optimizing their practice management and patient care.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Frontier Pediatric Care
• Phil Boucher's LinkedIn Profile
• OpenSpot SMS Platform for Replacing Cancellations Quickly.
• Practice Leads – Manage Your Leads In One Place
• Who Can Help When Private Practice Matters? – 174
• How to Save Healthcare, Satisfy Patients, and Fix Physician Burnout – 256
• Text QUESTIONS for Phil Boucher to 402-741-4494.

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 360

Building the Private Practice of the Future with Technology

- Interview with Dr. Phil Boucher

John: Today's guest has always been an innovator when it comes to adopting new technologies to make his medical practice more efficient, more accessible, and more fun for everybody. And even back in 2020 when we first met, he was developing new ways to improve the patient experience and the physician's experience with practice. And so, with that, I want to welcome today's guest, Dr. Phil Boucher. Welcome.

Dr. Phil Boucher: Thank you so much. I can't believe it's been since December 2020. What a difference, it feels like a decade makes in the past four years. Oh my gosh.

John: Went through one pandemic, there could have been two in there, I suppose, but one was enough.

Dr. Phil Boucher: No one would have noticed if there were two probably at that point.

John: Well, no. I was doing purposely, I was looking back at old guests to see what they were up to today. And then I came across what you're doing. And it's almost overwhelming to me, just jumping back in years later and go, "Whoa, what's Phil up to?"

Dr. Phil Boucher: Right.

John: Give us a brief version of what's happened since we last spoke in 2020.

Dr. Phil Boucher: Background for me, if you've missed the episode back in 2020 is I'm a pediatrician in Lincoln, Nebraska. I graduated from residency like 10 years ago now, and was in private practice partner for about eight years, left that partnership two and a half years ago to start a pediatric direct primary care practice. Also in that time came up with this software concept that we'll talk about, I'm sure.

I built a software company and have been wearing those two hats to help physicians, help my patients. So it's kind of been a mix of things that I've been up to in the big picture of things. The two biggest things on my plate have been my DPC practice and my software company.

I also do a lot of marketing help for physicians, especially private practice physicians is kind of my people. And so helping private practice owners and physicians in private practice to better market themselves to their local patient populations. Those are kind of the big picture of things. We also built a new house. We have six kids now. I don't remember how many we had back in then. I won't try to remember.

John: Four, maybe.

Dr. Phil Boucher: But we probably had four of that and we have six now and we got two more dogs in the meantime too. So a lot has happened, I guess since we last spoke.

John: Yes, that is a lot. I got to pile on a little bit because I don't know if I've mentioned this in the podcast before listeners, but as of December of this past year, I didn't have any grandkids. I have five kids between my wife and I have a family and had no grandkids. And now we have three.

Dr. Phil Boucher: Your Christmas just got a lot more expensive there this year.

John: Yeah, exactly. I don't know, but six kids now that's good. I'm from a family of 10. I'm the oldest, but I can't even imagine in today's day and age to get six or more kids.

Dr. Phil Boucher: Oh gosh. I'm sure similar to back then, once you reach a certain threshold, another mouth to feed is, you just kind of divide the plates up a little bit differently and the cost and the time does diminish after you get to a certain number. I don't know what that number is.

John: Yeah. Well, congratulations. You've done a lot here and keep moving forward in all areas of your life, which is awesome. So let's get to the business of today. The really thing that kind of interested me is when I saw that you weredoing these sort of side gig businesses with software and that kind of thing. But I do want you to just briefly tell us about the DPC because that's also a very interesting topic.

Dr. Phil Boucher: I got pulled towards DPC kind of in 2021, listening to podcasts about DPC, to be honest with you. And hearing about the way that they were able to help families and help their parent practice to really thrive. It made me really excited for, well, I see so many different ways that patients and as a pediatrician, it's mostly the parents that we're talking about here, that they're struggling regardless of the pandemic, just the way that they connect with the way that they feel herded in and out of the office, the wait times, all of those things really weighed on my heart, seeing the ways that we weren't able to care for the patients the way that I wanted to, which led me to DPC and then realizing that there's so many ways to reduce the hassle for families and for me as the clinician to really drew me to direct primary care.

We have in our state, Nebraska, several family practice, direct primary care practices that have been thriving, but ours was the first and remains the first and only pediatric direct primary care. Luckily, around the country, though, there are a number of thriving pediatric direct primary care practices and really a network of pediatricians supporting each other in direct primary care.

There's a couple specific in the DPC realm things about pediatrics, and one of the biggest is the vaccines. And so, that was one of the hard hurdles to climb. And I've been working to help other pediatricians climb that hurdle now that I'm on the other side of that and have a good setup for vaccines. But as you know, vaccines are extremely expensive and often become a huge source of cash flow issue for practices in general. And when you're talking about pediatric DPC, where the volume is smaller, all of those things that really magnifies the cash flow issues that go along with vaccines. That was a big hurdle to climb over.

And then the other thing for pediatrics is almost all parents have insurance. They either have commercial or private insurance or Medicaid. And so, most kids are insured. So there's a little bit of a different angle when it comes to the value offer that we put to prospective patients that are considering joining our practice that isn't as required as strongly, I feel like, in the family practice realm.

It's not zero, but there is a different value offer when it comes to positioning yourself to grow your pediatric direct primary care practice from a marketing standpoint and from a way that we sell. We do the sales for patients joining our practice. So those have been kind of two of the really interesting challenges when it comes to pediatric DPC. And then just being a business owner and owning a practice, all of those sorts of things that kind of go along with starting a practice from scratch.

John: Nice. Well, that could be a whole separate episode. I think I'm going to do a series maybe two or three of you who are doing this family medicine internist, others, and maybe we can have you back on the podcast, go into that. But the bottom line is though you're charging or you have a monthly fee that people pay and they have almost unlimited access to you one way or the other.

Dr. Phil Boucher: Yes. That's how we frame it is instead of all of the copays and deductibles and you know, calling and pressing three and waiting 17 minutes to talk to a nurse, to get told to schedule an appointment. People just text us for the most part. And millennials and Gen Z who are most of our parents that are joining love texting, hate being on the phone, hate taking that time out of their day. They love the convenience factor of it. And honestly, we do too, because it's so much easier than getting voicemails and playing phone tag and all those things to just communicate in the means that works best for us and for parents. The monthly membership fee, they can pay with their HSA. It covers everything. So there's no outside expenses. If you want your kids ears pierced, that's separate, but otherwise we really don't have any other line items that people pay for.

The thing that I think I've loved probably as much as the way that I'm able to have those relationships with families with longer visits and getting to know them more and just coming to know that my patients are going to see me or one of our team members when they come into the office is that we're able to try new things at a much faster clip because we don't have 17 layers of meetings and committees and proven concepts. If we want to try something new, we can with relative ease. We fail at a fair number of the things that we try. They just don't work. But then we have successes that we're able to really jump on quickly.

One thing that we did shortly after starting our DPC practice, we were in the midst of the pandemic. We had a ton of N95 masks. We set it up so that teachers could get those. A couple of months later, we had the formula shortage. Instead of having 17 rounds of committees, we just said, well, what if we have a formula bank and we can just get people that have formula on their shelves at home. Their baby has outgrown the formula. They haven't used it yet. Bring it to the office. We can distribute it to other families that are in need.

Same thing with COVID vaccines. We're able to just really jump quickly on the things in the community that are important and respond to those by figuring things out and just having a really, we can figure this out attitude as a team. It's made a huge difference for me, just enjoying being able to practice medicine, but also to respond to parents' needs and community needs in a much more quick way where things don't have to go to vote after vote after vote and nitpicking all the details. We say we want to do this, and then we do it.

A couple of weeks ago, or no, maybe a month or two ago, we thought, okay, there's a lot of teenagers that need to learn CPR for babysitting because they have younger siblings and all those sorts of things. So we're like, well, let's just do CPR and first aid for teens.

A month after deciding this is something that we should do, we just had one yesterday where we had like 10 teenagers that came in and did CPR training and learned first aid. Just the ability to do things like that when we think of them and when we hear from our parents that this is what they need, and to be able to jump on that has been so rewarding for me.

John: That's impressive. It sounds really to be involved in that. It's fun. It's rewarding. On the parent side, it's probably fantastic as well, just to be able to access that. You mentioned texting and people's use of texting. I think that brings us to the one topic I definitely wanted to talk to you about, which was you developed and are selling a product, I think now, and it's kind of a side gig. Just tell us all about it. It's called OpenSpot, I believe.

Dr. Phil Boucher: OpenSpot. This was not on my bingo card, but a couple months after opening my DPC, an eye surgeon who works in the parking lot across the street from my practice had sent me a message on Instagram actually saying, "Hey, here's the problem I'm facing. I know that you are kind of a techie guy. Do you have any ideas?" His problem was he's booked out several months for new patients, but has a lot of last minute cancellations. Timmy's sick. We don't have transportation. We got a better offer. We're not coming in for our appointment tomorrow. He would be twiddling his thumbs not having patients to see despite being booked out three months because his staff couldn't get a hold of patients. They didn't have the bandwidth to just call and leave all these voicemails and play phone tag to try and fill tomorrow at 11:30, an opening that just popped up. He was asking, Do you have any sort of solutions?

I couldn't really find anything that did that, but had enough experience and willingness to try that I was like, I think we can create something. And so we put a MVP, a minimum viable product together where essentially they could keep a waitlist. And then when an opening arose, they could start texting their waitlist. These people are booked out two months. Hey, tomorrow we have an opening at 11:30. Does that work for you? Reply yes, if so, and it's yours or reply pass, and we'll move on to the next person.

And so, that was the concept. And it kind of took off because you could do the math of how much money that and revenue that can generate if you're filling those gaps in the appointment slots. And so what we did was we had that minimum viable product, and we tried it in some local practices. And in the process, I learned a lot about software as a service, which I was completely unfamiliar with before that, but was able to figure out, okay, here's how it works. Here's what we can offer. Here's the limitations that we have not being integrated with an EMR, which I was like, well, no one's going to want to use this. People don't really mind having two windows open. They probably use multiple software products throughout the course of their day anyways.

And so it's okay if it's not integrated, if it gets those appointment spots filled and practice managers actually like filling appointment spots, even if it creates a little bit of a headache for their staff and not having to call people on the phone really reduces that headache that could exist of, you need to get this spot filled. Well, what if we could just text people?

And so I got a little bit of some energy from the initial traction of OpenSpot and went to a couple of local venture capitalist firms and said, hey, this is what we're doing. And they were interested and invested. I went and did it's called Founder University. It was by Jason Calacanis, who's an investor, Silicon Valley guy, early stage in Uber and lots of money and interest in supporting others. And got in a cohort of his and did a pitch contest at the end, won that. So won $25,000 from him for that. And then locally, we had a startup week, Omaha startup week, did my pitch competition at that and actually won that and got another $25,000 from that.

There's a lot of money out there for people that have an idea and can spark interest and tell a good story that there's a lot of people that want to invest in those sorts of things. And then the biggest one was our Nebraska State Department of Economic Development wants to support and grow local businesses. So we got a grant for $100,000 from them to further our product development. And essentially they were paying to have it developed locally. And what that did is it allowed us to start developing the product, taking it from what I made, which was the minimum viable product, which was really the minimum viable product into something that was actually like fancy and pretty and used real code and all those sorts of things.

And so that's kind of been the journey of OpenSpot. The biggest thing that we added now, one of the functionalities, aside from like building the whole product from scratch, was if somebody if you text and say, Hey, John, does tomorrow at 11z;30 work to see Dr. Smith? No. Perfect. We'll keep you on the list. And then it just automatically goes to the next person. Hey, Mary, does tomorrow at 11:30 work? Yes. Perfect. It's your spot or no. Perfect. We'll go to the next person on the list. So really automating that for practices so that once they start and they say, Dr. Smith has an opening tomorrow at 11:30, it will just keep asking people until it finds somebody that will take the spot.

And so functionality like that has really made it easier for practices to get on board with. This is kind of like a set it and forget it. And it's going to keep asking and putting people asking for the next person in line over and over again until it finds somebody for that spot so the staff are really hands off.

John: So how does it get the list of people that are on the list? Does it integrate with the EMR now or with some scheduling?

Dr. Phil Boucher: It either integrates with the EMR or the schedulers just add them to the list for people that want to be on the list. Most practices nowadays will have a very rudimentary wait list functionality. It's often like a three ring binder or a notebook in a drawer. And so we elevate that by just having them have a place where they can put in the relevant information. This patient needs in with Dr. Smith. This patient doesn't care. They'll see whoever's available. This is how much time they need for their appointment, whatever the relevant details are that the schedulers used to make those appointments. We get them to capture that information. They sit on the list and then they can start just pinging and going down the list when they tell us that there's an opening available.

John: Very nice. It reminds me this whole idea of queuing theory people lining up. Family medicine for a while was really pushing for basically an open schedule with no appointments. In other words, you have to call within a day or two of your appointment because the longer your list is, the more you'll have no shows. It's just a correlation. So it sounds like you've solved the problem, get the best of both worlds, have a decent list of people out there. So you're sure you're going to use your resources and then show up. So was this you had to like start a separate business, an LLC or something and you just hire a bunch of software programmers or what?

Dr. Phil Boucher: I really started leaning with this, which was developing it myself and sitting at the computer until I figured out and practiced and made it work. That's part of the nice thing about being in DPC is I see fewer patients per day, which means I have more time for all of these other side things for good and for bad. We had to start a separate LLC, then we had to convert it to a Delaware C-Corp because what I learned is that VC firms want you to have a Delaware C-Corp something. I don't know the specifics, but that's a thing. Like if you think you're ever going to take investors money, then start with a Delaware C-Corp and you'll save yourself a fair amount of lawyer fees and hassles in that regard.

But yeah, those were the biggest things and just all the business stuff behind that, which is pretty typical and people set up businesses all the time. So, there's not anything that a doctor can't learn to do or hire somebody to help them do. But from there, then just figuring out how to market it and get in front of the right people. That's been a lot of trial and error is like who the decision makers are, who are the ones that are actually going to implement this, who's going to maintain it.

And it has mostly come down to the people that we need to talk to, maybe to get initial interests or physicians that say, yeah, this is a problem. I do have a lot of gaps in my schedule that I would like to fill because I don't really want to work more days and I don't really want to just pile more patients in. What if I could just be more efficient in the time that I have, which is filling those gaps in the schedule that creep up.

Because honestly, I think people are less enthusiastic about going to the doctor than in years past. Like you do see a lot more no-shows or last minute cancellations because I think the weight of going to the doctor has less meaning than it used to. And so people are more likely to skip or bail or take a better offer or cancel at the last minute.

And so, if we can get those people to make sure that they tell us within 24 hours, at least 24 hours notice, then we can usually fill those gap spots without having to spend hours on the phone and playing phone tag and all those sorts of things.

John: Well, one of the things that's probably threatening the most physicians is marketing, advertising, promoting, that sort of thing. So just to learn about that, why don't you just market your product to us right now? Tell us, I have physicians that are practicing here. So what are you doing to market it? But just tell us about the website and what we'll see if we go to the website and what we can expect from the product and that kind of thing.

Dr. Phil Boucher: Yeah, essentially for most physicians, it's something that you're going to tell your office administrator, "Hey, we're really busy. We have a waiting list out the door, but we have a lot of unfilled appointment spots at the end of the day because of last minute cancellations." And what OpenSpot does is it allows you to fill those holes in the schedule without having your staff overburdened with trying to make phone calls and play phone tag. And it meets patients where they are, which is text messaging. And it just makes it easy for them.

Most physicians task their administrator of looking into it and taking those next steps when it comes to, is it the right fit for us and does it work with our practice workflow? And then the schedulers are the ones that are using it on the day-to-day basis. And so we try and make it make sense for schedulers to see the value of filling those spots, which makes everybody happy. And also not adding to their burden of making phone calls or who's talking to this one, or did somebody already offer this appointment? It just streamlines that entire process so that you know that there's something and it's not a person that could be doing other important work that's working to fill those spots.

John: Is this available nationally? Right now I can call you or go to your website?

Dr. Phil Boucher: Absolutely. Yes, findopenspot.com.

John: findopenspot.com. That's the website. Okay. And how long does it take to implement?

Dr. Phil Boucher: Less than a week. We do all the training and everything along those lines. Once people get set up, we find out what types of appointments they need and what types they have. Because one of the things that I've learned, being a pediatrician, I don't know how everybody else's scheduling flows work. Learning that dermatologists need more time for fillers than Botox seems like something that's intuitive to dermatologists, but it wasn't intuitive to me. And so, learning about the practice and the way that appointments are scheduled, which is just a quick Zoom with your scheduling team to figure out what that looks like, what the relevant information is, because it's all very specific for practices.

Some practices have really wide open schedules, some have very regimented schedules. And so, we're able to work with all of those, but it just takes a quick understanding from your schedulers, how they schedule, what they need to know to make a good appointment, what they don't care about when it comes to scheduling appointments, and then fine-tuning the system so that it gets the relevant information and can make good matches.

John: And let's see, it seems like in the old days, some software would sit on someone's server at their office, but I assume this is actually an app that gets integrated.

Dr. Phil Boucher: Yes. It's all browser-based. Chrome browser, Safari browser, whatever browser you're using, it's just a different tab that you would have open that you would switch back and forth to. We've also set it up because it's working in the background. You don't want to have to kind of like tend to it. And so whatever system your practice uses, whether it be email or Slack or Teams, it integrates with those too. So it can say, hey, we filled the spot at 11:30 tomorrow and let this practice know so that they know that that booking has been made when it gets made.

John: And are you doing something actively to promote this besides, I don't know, just talking about it? How do you actually get the word out short of going person to person and calling them and say, hey, do you want this?

Dr. Phil Boucher: That's been the biggest challenge is figuring out the best way to get in front of the decision makers. Some of it's on LinkedIn, some of it's on podcasts and video. Some of it is trade shows. We've done some trade shows where you're talking at the Medical Group Management Association and those sorts of things. Those are all different routes of getting it out there, but it's kind of the approach which I've learned as a pediatrician and marketing my practice. You have to connect. You have to have a lot of touch points before people make that next step. It's not something where they just see it and they go and they sign up.

I'm kind of that way. I'm like an early adopter. I got the first Apple Watch and I'm still going strong with Apple Watches when I first heard about them. I don't have the Apple Vision Pro thing yet, but I think most people need a lot of touch points before they realize, hey, this is something that I need to look into.

I know that like the people that are listening to this, it's probably unlikely that they're going to go and just put in their credit card information and sign up. But if they hear from me and they see me on a bunch of different channels on a regular basis, then that probably is going to nudge them and eventually they're going to be like, hey, let me forward this to my office administrator. We should look into this because I frequently have all of these gaps in my schedule and I know the schedulers are too busy to be calling patients. And that's what it's going to take to actually get that first phone call and that discussion rolling.

I think that's something that I intuitively knew and was reminded of over and over again, is that it takes a lot of touch points for people to do something about it. And also when there's a little bit of change involved, that it's going to take a lot of time from a change management perspective.

John: And if they go to findopenspot.com, is there a contact form or do they sign up to do a call with you or how does that work?

Dr. Phil Boucher: Usually people just book a demo. We chat through and figure out if it's a good fit even, and then from there decide how to integrate it into their workflows if that's something that they're looking for. But the easiest way is just to book a demo that's free and you just book it straight from there and it's a Zoom call where we can talk through what they're looking for.

John: And you told me as we were organizing this meeting that, oh, you thought you'd create some other software, another tool. So why don't you quickly give us a rundown on where you are with that, what it does. Are you in the same business or is this now another business?

Dr. Phil Boucher: I'd say this is just a spinoff of OpenSpot, in terms of lie the hierarchy of businesses. OpenSpot is great for busy practices that are full and they've got a wait list of at least four weeks and they're really trying to fill those gaps. They're trying to increase efficiency.

As a DPC pediatrician, I get to talk with a lot of DPC doctors, both in family medicine and internal medicine and in pediatrics and specialty care. And one of the things that they need, they don't have full practices and long wait lists. I don't have a wait list. We don't use OpenSpot in my practice. If you need an appointment today, John, you would just text and say, hey, my son fell and I think he needs stitches. And we would just text back and say, come on over. There's not a wait in that capacity for DPC.

But what they need to do is they need to really have a lot of touch points with prospective patients to get them to say, okay, this is the practice for me, or I understand how this works and how it'd be beneficial. And so, what we created then for that side of practices, small practices, growing practices, startup practices, is essentially a HIPAA compliant CRM. CRM is Client Relationship Manager in business speak. But essentially it's a way to manage the relationship and manage the outreach and touch points with potential customers, potential patients in a way that helps them stay organized, know who's reached out, know where people are at in the pipeline of their customer journey of initial reach out, learning more, book a meet and greet, join the practice, loss to follow up, those sorts of things.

And so, what practice leads does is it allows for small practices to manage those leads as they come in and nurture them along to the point where then they're taking that next step. Because what I found was a lot of practices are really good at the first touch points or meeting patients at the baby expo or the health convention or whatever it might be, but then they were losing them to follow up because they just weren't making enough touch points with them to stay top of mind.

Because most people today aren't looking for a new doctor and you really have to convince them that there's something better for them. But over time, you can do that if you have enough touch points, enough nurture points, if you're able to talk to them on a regular enough basis to say, hey, maybe there is a better way, or maybe we offer something that your regular practice doesn't, or maybe we have a special evaluation that we do that we need to explain in a little bit more depth to you how we do it and what we do.

And so, what Practice Leads does is it allows you to track those leads as they come in, nurture them along, have one place, one inbox that has text message, email, contact us forms, Instagram, Facebook, all of that in one continuous stream of information so that you're not looking in seven different places to remember where somebody contacted you and how they reached you and what their deal is. That's what Practice Leads is. It's a HIPAA compliant CRM for small and growing practices.

John: Very nice. So that is up and running now and accessible to the practicing physicians?

Dr. Phil Boucher: Yes. And the thing that I love about it, one, is that it's HIPAA compliant, and two, is that it lets you do it all in one place, and three, is it's completely customizable. And so, the way that we use that in my practice is we've been doing a lot of ADHD evaluations. Before somebody books an ADHD evaluation with me, they probably want to know that I know what I'm talking about and that I'm not just going to push medicines on them because most people these days want to try things other than medicines.

The way that we work that is they start with a webinar that's free and on demand, and it's about how food impacts our child's behavior and attention and focus. And then from there, they get a series of emails and text messages that share more about our process and what we do and how we do it and what an evaluation looks like and what it doesn't look like and who it's good for and who doesn't really need it. And here's some other strategies that you can implement before you get to an evaluation.

And over time, we build trust, we build rapport, we build that trust factor that really is important before somebody decides, I'm going to book an evaluation. And so, what Practice Leads does is allows us to monitor those parents, as they're going through the process of watching the webinar, opening emails, reading blog posts, reading news articles that we send them. It allows you to automate that process so you know where they're at in that funnel that you've created to get them to eventually, over enough touch points, decide they're the right practice for me. I want to get an ADHD evaluation. This is timely because school is starting sooner. We're really struggling with this and that or the other thing. You build that relationship and you're the one that they turn to then when they actually need something.

John: Excellent. Well, what's the website for that?

Dr. Phil Boucher: GetPracticeLeads.com.

John: GetPracticeLeads.com. Okay, obviously, I'll put that in the show notes along with the OpenSpot link as well. And actually, the link to your practice because I think people will find it interesting just to see what you look like online when people are thinking about joining your practice.

Well, this is very interesting. I'm definitely going to follow up with you down the road here and see how things are going. Any last advice? I guess I'm going to stop there. Any last advice though about, I don't know, it seems like things are exciting with what you're doing. Just practicing in the US, is it possible to make it fun and profitable at the same time for physicians?

Dr. Phil Boucher: I think it is, but I don't think that you're going to find as much fun stuck in an organization or a large institution. And I think more physicians are getting really hip to that. This that we've been sold, the large employer, they often trade autonomy and care for more RVUs. And what that means for physicians often is that they feel like they're not anywhere near the top of the food chain. And they're often feel very replaceable and just like a cog in the wheel. And I think that you can have a lot more fun and enjoy medicine and practice medicine the way that you want when you have more control over the way that you practice it. And I think physicians are often afraid because they feel like business is too hard.

Because I graduated from medical school 15 years ago, 16 years ago, something like that. We got no business training at all. And it feels like maybe it was intentional because they want to grow academics and they want to grow large institutional employees. And so, why would we tell you about business? Business is hard. How are you going to figure out your books? How are you going to do bookkeeping and taxes? Those things sound hard. Let's just keep you at the academic center or at the large organization and you'll be miserable. But at least you won't have to do those things.

But then I talked to physicians and there's a million new small businesses that open in the US every single year. Most of the small business people that are opening these businesses don't have the training, don't have the cash flow, don't have the connections that every physician in the country has.

And so, I always encourage people there's a way to figure out how to go into business for yourself and to practice medicine or to serve the people that you feel called to serve, which for me, I love taking care of parents and families locally. I love helping other physicians to grow their practices. I love helping thriving practices to thrive even more or to get physicians their time back so that they can do with it what they like, whether it's being more efficient in their day to day, whether it's growing their practice with marketing, whatever it might be to give them more autonomy and more freedom to do what's really important to them and to focus on those sorts of things.

There's a way to figure all those things out. But it does take a little bit of risk, but you've done risky things before. It does take a little bit of learning, but you've learned for decades now. You can do all these things if you just feel like, okay, maybe there's another way to do it because there's a lot of people out there that are really unhappy in their practices. I can't spend that much time on the physician Facebook groups anymore because there's so much negativity and it's not their fault. It's the system that they're a part of and that they're forced to work within that's really causing a lot of that burnout and a lot of that cynicism that you see in a lot of the Facebook groups.

But there's another way and it can be really fun and it can be really profitable and you can really enjoy your life more. I wake up and I am ready to go and I have these long lists of things to do. I wish I could do all the things that are on my list every day, but I have a really good team that helps me to hone down what I actually need to do and then they do the other things that help me to thrive. It's just such a fun way to practice and it's such a fun career of helping everybody that I can help.

John: Fantastic. Very inspirational. You rock, man. I love what you're saying. I agree with it. If I was 20 years younger, I might jump in myself, but I can at least get the word out and you've been very helpful in getting that word out today, Phil. Please do.

Dr. Phil Boucher: Please do. I know I give you my cell phone number. You can put that in the show notes and just tell anybody that wants to. I'm decent in email. I'm getting better at email, but the best way to reach me is to text because it's hard for me to ignore when my little green box on the thing says one or 12 or whatever. Text me. Anyone out there, any physician out there can absolutely text me to chat and figure out how to help them.

It's not to get you to join OpenSpot or Practice Leads or anything like that. It's just I love helping and I love brainstorming for physicians. I think that there are very few specialties where you can't do something outside the box of what you're doing right now. I don't know how heart surgeons can work outside of a large center, but everyone else that doesn't require a cardiopulmonary bypass can figure out something outside of the hospital if they're sick of being an employed physician and want to do something else.

John: I'll definitely put that in the show notes. You listeners look in there and they have the number. You can text Phil or reach out and check this out however way you want to. I will do that. All right, Phil. With that, I am going to say goodbye and let you go. I hope to talk to you again in the near future.

Dr. Phil Boucher: Yeah, let's not have four years pass between our next chat.

John: Okay, bye now.

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Dr. Emily Woolcock is an internationally recognized speaker, best-selling author, mentor, and consultant. She is among the country’s most well-known orthopedic surgeons. Dr. Woolcock is board-certified by the American Board of Orthopedic Surgery and the American Board of Independent Medical Examiners.

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We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career you love. To learn more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

For Podcast Listeners

• John hosts a short Weekly Q&A Session addressing any topic related to physician careers and leadership. Each discussion is now posted for you to review and apply. Sometimes all it takes is one insight to take you to the next level of your career. Check out the Weekly Q&A and join us for only $5.00 per month.
• If you want access to dozens of lessons dedicated to nonclinical and unconventional clinical careers, you should join the Nonclinical Career Academy MemberClub. For a small monthly fee, you can access the Weekly Q&A Sessions AND as many lessons and courses as you wish. Click the link to check it out, and use the Coupon Code “FIRSTMONTHFIVE” to get your first month for only $5.00.
• The 2024 Nonclinical Summit is over. But you can access all the fantastic lectures from our nationally recognized speakers, including Dr. Dike Drummond, Dr. Nneka Unachukwu, Dr. Gretchen Green, and Dr. Mike Woo-Ming. Go to Nonclinical Summit and enter Coupon Code “30-OFF” for a $30 discount.

Dr. Woolcock Begins Doing IMEs

Dr. Woolcock founded businesses in Georgia, Florida, and Maryland. They include the Orthopedic and Joint Replacement Institute, the Accident Rehabilitation Center, and National Orthopedic Consultants. In 2016 she established the IME Academy. Through the Academy, she teaches students to perform defensible, literature-based independent medical examinations.

Emily is passionate about helping other physicians. So she helps them break free from the work/life balance issues she experienced early in her career. As a wife and mother, she understands the struggles physicians and other healthcare professionals face. 

When she first began experiencing burnout, she found that a skill she learned in residency could solve her problem. She began performing highly compensated independent medical exams. By doing IME consulting and delegating nonclinical work to team members she cut back on her office and operating room commitments.

How to Become an IME

Emily is a very creative and dedicated physician. She balances clinical work, performing IMEs, writing books, and mentoring dozens of young people. She is busy. Yet, she loves her work. And she is not burned out. 

This is the first time I had a guest with the expertise to explain how to become an IME. It is similar to what an expert witness does. But it also involves examining patients, which some of you might find more compelling as a side job.

Like expert witness work, learning to be an IME pays very well. You generally must continue to practice medicine, at least part-time.

Find out what makes you happy and learn to  integrate that with your vocational calling and you will be a much better, well-rounded person. – Dr. Emily Woolcock

Emily provided inspiration and valuable information. She knows this topic well. If you’re interested in learning to be an IME you can find her course at theimeacademy.com.

Summary

Dr. Emily Woolcock describes her inspirational story. She discovered a way to reduce her work time while producing more income by performing Independent Medical Examinations. In this interview, she explains how you can do the same and improve your work-life balance. 

Links for Today's Episode:

• The IME Academy
• Dr. Emily Woolcock Website
• Dr. Emily Woolcock LinkedIn Page
• My Doctor Looks Like Me, by Emily d. Woolcock, MD (female ver.)
• My Doctor Looks Like Me, by Emily Woolcock, MD (male ver.)
• Mi Doctor Looks Like Me, by Emily Woolcock, MD (Spanish ver.)
• Looks Like Me Books Facebook Page

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Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Many of the links that I refer you to, and that you’ll find in the show notes, are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you, that I have personally used or am very familiar with.

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post How to Become an IME: A PNC Classic from 2021 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Interview with Mr. Eric Miller – Episode 337

In today's episode, John describes why you must treat your practice like a valuable business asset if you want to be successful.

This episode serves as a valuable resource for healthcare professionals looking to enhance their business acumen and secure the long-term prosperity of their practices.

Our Show Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Did you know that you can sponsor the Physician Nonclinical Careers Podcast? As a sponsor, you will reach thousands of physicians with each episode to sell your products and services or to build your following. For a modest fee, your message will be heard on the podcast and will continue to reach new listeners for years after it is released.  The message will also appear on the website with over 8,000 monthly visits and in our email newsletter and social media posts. To learn more, contact us at john.jurica.md@gmail.com and include SPONSOR in the Subject Line.

Our Episode Sponsor

Dr. Debra Blaine is a physician like many of you, and her greatest challenge was fear. The whole concept of leaving clinical medicine was terrifying. But she is so much happier now as a professional writer and a coach. According to Debra, “It’s like someone turned the oxygen back on.”

If fear is part of your struggle, too, she would like to help you push through those emotional barriers to go after the life you really want. Click this link to schedule a free chat.

Or check out her website at allthingswriting.com/resilience-coaching.

The Business Side of Healthcare Practices

In this engaging segment, John and Eric shed light on the often overlooked dimension of running a healthcare practice – treating it as a business. Drawing from his extensive experience working with physicians and other healthcare business owners, Eric underscores the critical need for an understanding of the financial dynamics inherent in medical practices. The discussion unveils some key aspects, including common pitfalls to avoid and the need for astute financial planning.

They also explore the importance of seeking professional advice, collaborating with financial experts, and understanding the unique economic challenges within the healthcare industry. Eric shares success stories of physicians who have transitioned from viewing their practice solely as a profession to adopting a business-centric approach, resulting in increased financial stability and ongoing growth.

Building Value and Planning for Practice Exit

They explore the issue of planning for the sale of the practice from the very beginning of its inception. Eric recommends building a practice that is not solely dependent on the owner, with multiple revenue streams, and ongoing strategic planning from its beginning. 

This concludes with insights into optimizing the sale of a practice, ensuring financial security for physicians nearing retirement, and the potential for substantial returns with proper planning and execution.

Eric Miller's Advice on Pursuing Your Practice

I one-hundred percent say “do it.” You'll never regret it. But also make sure that you teach yourself or you learn the business side of the type of healthcare that you deliver so that you can maximize what that would be for yourself.

Summary

Miller, a seasoned financial advisor specializing in healthcare practices, delves into the essential aspects of financial planning for healthcare professionals. His book “How to Become a Financial Beast” [this is an amazon affiliate link] covers a comprehensive range of topics relevant to practice owners, offering practical guidance on optimizing personal and business finances.

To connect with Eric Miller, you may visit his company's website. You can explore the available resources and services offered by Eric Miller and his team at Econologics Financial Advisors. 

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

• How to Become a Financial Beast, by Eric Miller (this is an Amazon affiliate link, so I'll receive a small payment if you buy it using the link)
• Econologics Financial Advisors
• Contact Eric Miller directly using this email address: bfff@econologics.com
• How to Start and Grow a Profitable Cash Based Medical Practice – 293
• Want to Establish a Concierge Practice Before Finishing Your Fellowship? – 210
• The Best New Business Solves a Problem – 171
• How to Be a Shrewd Business Coach and Consultant – 111
• Dr. Debra Blaine's Coaching Services

Download This Episode:

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Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 337

Manage Your Practice Like a Valuable Business Asset

- Interview with Eric Miller

John: I've noticed that many physicians who start non-traditional practices like med spas and weight loss clinics, they truly treat that as a business. In fact, I had a guest recently who sold her med spa, and she really did well. But many doctors failed to treat a medical practice that way.

When I was a CMO, I helped recruit physicians and bought some practices, and they were usually very disappointed in what they got. I was really happy when I came across Eric Miller, who's going to join us today because this is the thing he does, trying to bring value to practices and prove their business acumen and producing income and so forth. So, hello Eric and welcome to the show today.

Eric Miller: Hey, John. Thanks so much.

John: I've done a little intro prior to us starting here that's separate. But just tell us about yourself and how you got into helping clinicians of various sorts.

Eric Miller: Yeah. When I first got interested in personal finance I took the direction that a lot of people do. I work for an investment company, I focused on retirement planning and 401(k)s and such. And at some point in time, I just decided that's not really what I wanted to do in this field. I really wanted to be more of an advisor, a financial planner, and not just sell investment products.

And then having a background where my family was in healthcare I was like, "Well, here's what I've seen. These are people that desperately need financial help because it's really not taught to them in school." We started in 2008, which was a heck of a time to start a financial planning company, if you remember back then.

John: Yeah.

Eric Miller: We started working with healthcare owners and I learned really early on because all the questions that I would get from them had to deal with their practice. "My practice is struggling. I'm not making enough cash." Here I'm trying to get their personal finances in order and they're asking me all these questions about their practice. And I'm like, "I don't really know about your business. I've never seen your financials or I don't know how it works. I don't know how you guys get paid." It was just kind of an "aha" moment where I realized that if I was going to be a financial advisor that was going to cater to healthcare owners, I better understand something about their biggest investment, which is their practice of course. And that's where it started. Then we started working with veterinarians and physical therapists and optometrists. And then anyone that had a private practice, these are the types of people that we focus on.

John: Yeah. And it is a different world in healthcare, and even subsections of it are different. The practice is one thing, a hospital environment is a totally different thing. And there's a lot of billing and there's a lot of write-offs because you only get part of what you bill unless you're in the cash based business. So, that must have been an eye-opener.

Eric Miller: Yeah, it was. I was like, "Oh, no wonder we have a screwed up medical system. I'm looking at all these, how reimbursements work and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is crazy." But I did learn how the business runs, and that really made us more of an ally for that owner. Because I could show them "This is what this thing should be providing for you, and this is how much you should compensate yourself." And just gave them some certainty on that, because most of them just have no idea how to even pay themselves.

John: Yeah. They don't even know how to set up a structure. They've got to learn if they're starting their own practice, obviously, but it's like, "You better sit down with the attorney and the accountant and figure that out." But they don't really have a business background.

Eric Miller: That's right. Yeah. That was another thing I realized too, is just how much they didn't really understand. They understood the practitioner side, they just didn't really understand the business side of it very well.

John: Yeah. And that's I think why we see more and more that just come out of the residency and go and work for a hospital or something. But I think a lot of them do that for a while. They get really frustrated. They feel like they're in some kind of futile system or slavery where they're getting beat up to work 10, 12 hours a day and they say, "Forget it. I'm going to go on my own." But then we come back to this problem. So, you've talked with a lot of different people in healthcare that have these practices from doctors to physical therapists and so forth. Are there certain things that you see are kind of the biggest mistakes, or I guess I had a question here I was going to ask you about. Why their practice isn't sound and why their personal finances aren't secure?

Eric Miller: Yeah. Well, I'll say it goes back to that principle I just taught you. Almost all of these people went to school for seven or eight years to learn how to be a practitioner of some kind. But they never learned how to be a good owner, a good investor. And I think when you start thinking about the moment you own your practice, you're a business owner, and that means you have different roles and functions. And those are just things that would never taught. Any management skills, any owner skills, or how to invest money. How much should I be making? Where do I allocate it? That was never taught to a doctor. He's got to figure that out on his own. But the ones that are really well off today embraced that they are owner investors and it really guided how they made financial decisions.

John: Do you end up having to walk them through how to even look at a P&L and figure out if they're generating enough income to cover their expenses and what would be considered a reasonable salary?

Eric Miller: Oh, yeah. We definitely look at the profit and loss statements and I can see where there's money leaks at, how much are they spending on staff wages, cost of goods and other things that we'll look at. But I think the primary thing is that most people just underestimate how much they need to bring in every month. If I ask a doctor "What's your make break number?" They give me a number. But then I say, "Well, does that include your owner profits, business reserves, money for taxes and money to reinvest back into the business?" They're like, "No." I'm like, "Well, then that's not your make break number." Once we really show them, this is how you should be operating, then it lights a little bit of a fire in them. Like, "Oh my gosh, we need to see more patients. I need to do more services." Because we get them on a road to real financial solvency, not just getting by.

John: Yeah. I think things have changed a little bit. Maybe people are a little bit more astute today, but especially back when I was starting out and even just 10 years ago, basically they would just figure, "Okay, if I just see enough patients, I should be able to cover my overhead." And they wait to see if it works. It's probably not a good way to go into business without knowing how to market and how many patients do they actually have to see? What do they have to charge to actually make enough income to take care of their family?

Eric Miller: Well, I even look at it a little differently. I'm like, all of you have a facility. I don't know how many square foot, 3,000 square foot, 4,000 square foot, 2,000 square foot.

John: Yes.

Eric Miller: How many patients could you see in a month? And how much room do you have for other practitioners in here as well? And really start to get them thinking about treating this business like an investment and not a job. And I think that is a key thing that a lot of owners need to look at is that their practice is an investment. It's not a job. And really trying to get max value out of it should be a primary goal that they have.

John: It's funny you say that because they may kill themselves practicing and trying to generate enough, but then they always are looking at outside investments, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but they're looking at the outside investments differently than they're looking at their own business, which I think is the point that you're making. It's like return on investment.

Eric Miller: I'll ask them what their biggest expense is, and you ask a practice owner what their biggest expense is, and they're going to say it's staff wages or some kind of overhead expense. And I'm like, "Nope. It is money you had the opportunity to make and you didn't." It is lost income. If I have a facility that could be doing $200,000 a month because the size of it allows for it, and I'm only doing $100,000 a month, well, you're giving up $100,000 of income. At a 40% profit margin or 30% profit margin, that's a big number.

They don't have to look very far to go out and chase shiny objects to create more income. They just need to look at their current facility and say, "How do we build this thing up so that I can maximize its use?" I think that's the big difference that a lot of practitioners aren't doing, but that's how corporate works. That's their "How do we fill this thing up to the brim as fast as we can?"

John: Right. Well, I think you alluded to it earlier, but I'm going to get specific and ask you this. It seems like whether you're a family physician or maybe you're a gastroenterologist or a surgeon of some type, a lot of this comes back to maybe hiring other staff that can do things and create revenue for the practice. Is that one of the big options to try and use that space and expand?

Eric Miller: Yeah, for sure. You have so many hours in a day. You guys are open so many days a week. How much room do you have for multiple practitioners in there? That gets terrifying for a lot of owners or for a lot of practitioners because they're like, "Oh my God, now I have to teach this other person how to do." But it's not as bad as what they think. And once they do adopt that viewpoint, not everything is on their shoulders and start giving away responsibilities to other people that are competent, then that gets them the most valuable resource, which is of course, their time back. And that is something that I think a lot of owners dream about, but it never really happens for them.

John: When I was in practice, I did hire other physicians and it worked out kind of nice because they generated enough to cover their salary and maybe contribute to the bottom line a bit. I just had a glimpse of that before I went into basically hospital leadership. But are there other things that they can do? Have you seen any practices that...? I don't know, I get some physicians who think, "Well, maybe I should also sell things like vitamins or other products." Have you seen any success in that area?

Eric Miller: Well, sure. Anything that you can. When you look at your business, just don't rely on one of anything. Write down every single service that you provide, whatever that is. I actually have an exercise on this that we do with owners, and then I have them rank them, which are the highest profit margins, which are the most in demand and which are the easiest to deliver? And have them go through an exercise and start looking at, "Okay, these are the four income sources or services that we do that seem to generate good profits, are fairly easy for us to deliver, and people want." And I think everyone could do that exercise and really it would be eye-opening in some cases. But yeah, certainly looking at alternative lines of revenue are always a good thing. But like I said, I think just your existing services just doing a higher volume of what you're doing right now, more than make up for any deficiencies that you have.

John: I think sometimes when the physicians think of that, they're thinking, "Well, if I'm going to do more volume, it's just going to take up more of my time."

Eric Miller: Yes.

John: But I guess what you're saying is, well, find out a way to do that, but also do it with other people working for you, rather than you doing everything yourself.

Eric Miller: And this is where it becomes an investment and not a job. Because now I'm looking at "How do I bring someone in? I'm terrified to bring on an associate. I'm not sure he is going to have enough business." And that's where you have to start thinking like a businessman. How do I market to get more patients? How do we increase the outflow so that we can get more known in the community and get more referrals and all those things. I just think it's going to force you to do things that you're not used to doing, but then you're going to have a result that's 10 times better than what you thought you were going to have. And if you can have that viewpoint, I think it's going to lead to a lot of financial success.

John: I think most of the family doctors, they think of, "Well, that's easy for a dermatologist or someone that's doing procedures", but I think if they just look at it closely as you've said, and really dig into it. When I was in practice, sure, I had one NP that worked for me for years. But nowadays, I am affiliated with an urgent care center, and basically 99% of the care is provided by a non-physician provider. So, you can definitely adopt something like that.

Well, this leads me into the next phase, which is the other thing that just blows my mind is most physicians, when they get to the near retirement, they kind of just fade away. They might sell their practice to a hospital, but they're usually very disappointed by them. Because basically unless they stay and are the provider, usually they want to leave. There's not really much that they're selling at that point. So, how do you think about that? When should you start planning for that exit, and how do you optimize maybe actually getting something for the practice?

Eric Miller: You should start thinking about the exit the moment that you started the practice, which maybe isn't necessarily practical or real, but it is one of those things that you have to start planning ahead of, "How do I want to exit this practice? Do I need to sell to a hospital? What are my options first and foremost?" And then making sure that you build it so that it's valuable to someone else. And to your point, there's not going to be a lot of value there if all the production of the practice is on you. It's just not. There are certainly things you can do to minimize your production. When I say that, make sure that the business isn't 100% reliant upon you. Even if you get that down to 50% or 40%, you would be amazed at how much the value would increase of the overall practice by doing that. It's staggering.

John: Again, in my experience, someone might be lucky to get $100,000 when they're ready to retire as they turn over their practice that they're not going to work in. You would say though, the amounts you could get if you do a little planning and hire some people that can do some of the things you were doing, it could be some multiple of that.

Eric Miller: Yeah. I'll just choose one, which is the veterinary industry. You wouldn't think that a veterinary hospital on the corner street that you have right there with three doctors in there would be worth $5 million.

John: No, I wouldn't.

Eric Miller: But they are. Yeah, they are. Depending on the type of healthcare industry that you're in, there's always bigger groups out there that want to absorb and buy. And if they're going to want to acquire you, and they see that the production is just you and you're not willing to stay on for a period of time, you're going to get pennies on the dollar. But if you have maybe one or two other associates in there, maybe you're doing 20 to 30% of the production, then you may get a multiple of six to eight times your profit. It could be maybe one to one and a half times your earnings, depending on the method that they utilize. If I have a million dollar asset, I'd rather get a million dollars out of it than get $100,000 out of it.

John: When I think of a veterinarian too, I don't think they're doing much different from let's say a physician or some other person. They're prescribing, they're dispensing.

Eric Miller: It's not different at all. Somebody comes in, it's just with a human being. It's a dog that gets treated. They go back, they go into a treatment room and exam room, there's surgeries that are done. It's almost the exact same thing. But yet because a practice has multiple veterinarians doing that, it's worth it. What did I have? I think the largest veterinary sale that I saw was someone that had six doctors. And he sold for $22 million.

John: Oh my goodness.

Eric Miller: Yes.

John: Wow.

Eric Miller: That was a business. There was multiple people, there was executive, that's a business. That's going to sell for a high multiple. If it's just one person with one assistant, you're not going to get as much. That's just unfortunately how business valuations are governed.

John: Yeah. We talk about burnout here a lot, and physicians getting all excited about a side gig or doing something else, but if you knew that you could build something like that, it'd be exciting and you'd put a lot of work into it, but you'd get the satisfaction knowing that not only are you going to have a good income, but at the end of the road, you're going to have this nice asset that you're going to sell for whatever you sell it. But it's going to be definitely something worth doing.

Eric Miller: Absolutely. And you don't really have to sacrifice your current income all that much and you can still save plenty of money and create other income sources outside of the practice. But if you just put a little bit of effort into treating the practice like something that has more significant value than what maybe you thought it did, then it really can reward you down the line. And it can be life changing money in some cases.

John: I want to switch gears for a second. I don't know if I'm really switching gears, but you did write a book called How to Become a Financial Beast, and I took a look at it. I think you cover a lot of these things in that book. Is that right? We're just talking about how to build something that's an actual business that can be sold.

Eric Miller: Yeah. I really do cover the financial journey of a practice owner, someone that owns a healthcare practice. I talk a lot about exiting, how to make sure you're paying yourself correctly, how to build wealth outside of the practice, how to create a maximum value exit, what your options are. We definitely dig into everything related to a healthcare business.

John: By the way, to my listeners, you've got a pretty big outfit going on in terms of looking at your website. You've got a lot of people working with you. Tell us more about what you do, the full extent of what you and your team does for people working in healthcare.

Eric Miller: We are financial advisors. Most physicians that I know have worked with maybe a local advisor like an Edward Jones or Merrill Lynch or somebody like that. We do a lot of the same things that most of them do. Most of them have one to two meetings a year, go over your portfolios, look at your current investments, and it's pretty much the extent of what the conversations are. Maybe do some retirement planning. I think the big difference is that we focus on making sure that we're talking to you every single month about your finances, not just your personal finances, but your business finances.

Because one thing I've learned is that your money doesn't take time off, and there's always going to be some kind of decision that you're faced with or something that you have, "Okay, what should I do here?" And I wanted a service model that was different from the traditional financial advisor model. That's really our niche, is working with practice owners in the healthcare space, understanding how their business works, looking at your business financials, making sure that you're operating on the right targets, and most importantly, that you're taking enough money home from the practice to build other income sources and live the life that you want to live.

John: Excellent. Because I can imagine a group of let's say two or three, and this happened to me when I joined a partnership. They had no retirement plan. I'm in there for two or three years. I'm like "There's something missing here." It's like "Not that I'm an expert, I just know we should be putting money aside and we should be doing it in a way that makes sense." You can advise the practice owners on that kind of thing as well?

Eric Miller: Absolutely. Yeah. We tell them how much they should contribute if they do have a current retirement plan. Most of these physician groups do, pretty rare that I see right now they don't have some kind of 401(k) plan or retirement plan. But that shouldn't be the only source that you have. And I think that's where a lot of people get in trouble is that they're just pouring money inside something like that, and then all of a sudden, it becomes a giant tax bomb when you start distributing money from it.

So, you have to be a little bit more prudent and figuring out, "Okay, I need to also think about taxes when I'm looking at my cash flow, and how am I going to do that?" So, it's looking at qualified plans. It's certainly looking at traditional stocks, bonds, dividend paying stocks. We look at insurance based products for guaranteed income and tax-free income, and then of course, real estate for cash flow. I don't believe that there's one size fits all. I think all of these different sources can provide you what you need. And I don't get pigeonholed into just doing one thing.

John: Yeah. It sounds good to diversify anyway because these things go in cycles and it's nice to not have everything in the same cycle going down at the same time.

Eric Miller: That's for sure.

John: Econologics is the company. Is that correct?

Eric Miller: That's correct.

John: Econologics Financial Advisors. Where can we find the website for that?

Eric Miller: They can just go to www.econologics.com. We have plenty of financial assessments and downloads that you can have.

John: Okay. I'll put that in the show notes for sure. I'll also put a link to the book. How about any last advice? Someone who's maybe they've been in practice, as an employee, they're thinking of starting their own practice, or maybe there's a couple of docs together thinking of doing something. Any sort of closing advice for people thinking about doing that?

Eric Miller: I 100% say do it. You'll never regret it. But also make sure that you teach yourself or you learn on the business side of the type of healthcare that you deliver so that you can maximize what that would be for yourself. I love it when people do that. I love it when people get entrepreneurial like that, and they should, but you also have to understand the business side of it. And that's what I would recommend that they all do.

John: I know of physicians who have the acumen and teach other physicians how to do that, but it would make sense though, if you could just get your accountant, your attorney and a financial advisor like you on board to discuss these issues, you pretty much have things covered in terms of what you need to do to start a practice.

Eric Miller: You would 100%. You have to build a really good team. And I would recommend everyone work with a competent CPA, an attorney. Probably you don't need them as much, you'll need them later on. And then 100% a financial advisor but one that understands your business. That's a big key. One that understands how your practice works. Because otherwise they're going to fall into the same traditional model that you experienced before. But that team is really important to build.

John: I like the idea that you're doing monthly checkups with your clients and catch things. It might be going off the rails.

Eric Miller: I'm telling you. I learned that early on. It's about every four weeks someone calls me up and has some crazy idea about something to do. I was like "Let's make sure that we're talking to them really routinely so that we just keep them on track. This is what you're doing. What about this, what about this question? Okay. We'll handle this." And it really has been a very workable service model for us.

John: Excellent. I appreciate the time you spent with us today, Eric. This has been really helpful. I think physicians who have been staying away from the idea of maybe going out on their own might give it a second thought at least, that it can be done, and there are ways to optimize it. So, I really appreciate that.

Eric Miller: Yeah, I hope so. Thanks for having me on, John.

John: It's been my pleasure. All right. With that, I will say goodbye.

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The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post Manage Your Practice Like a Valuable Business Asset appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

In today's show, Dr. Mike Woo-Ming returns to the podcast to explain how to start and grow a successful cash based medical practice.

You’re a clinician and you know how to care for patients. Finding a way to provide clinical care for patients who are willing and able to pay us directly sounds pretty attractive.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Benefits of a Cash Based Medical Practice

Since it eliminates the hassle of billing insurance companies, a cash based medical practice brings more autonomy and satisfaction. 

There are several types of businesses that follow this model, including:

• weight loss
• skincare and aesthetics
• medical spas
• concierge medicine

Reviewing the Steps

During the conversation, Dr. Woo-Ming describes how he started, how his business has adjusted to meet market needs, how he added new services, and how he grew the number of clinics over time.

His advice is to keep things simple, start small, leverage your team, and take advantage of opportunities when they arise.

Best of Both Worlds

As a physician, you invested many years of your life, and a potentially sizeable amount of money to learn your profession. When overwhelmed or burned out, removing payers from the equation can make your practice more enjoyable and meaningful. Our guest, Mike Woo-Ming is a living example of that promise.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Dr. Mike Woo-Ming's New Course
• How to Build a Terrific Freelance Consulting Business – 145
• Entrepreneur and Business Owner – Interview with Dr. Mike Woo-Ming – 019
• NewScript Nonclinical Career Summit
• NewScr!pt

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

The NewScript Nonclinical Career Summit is coming soon. Access 12 lectures and live Q&A RIGHT HERE.

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 293

How to Start and Grow a Profitable Cash Based Medical Practice

- Interview with Dr. Mike Woo-Ming

John: Welcome back to the podcast, Dr. Mike Woo-Ming.

Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: John, it's always a pleasure, my friend. It's been a long time since we talked, and thanks for reaching out and wanting to find out more information about this.

John: Well, I can keep in touch indirectly by listening to your podcast and even going to one of your webinars if I want to, so that's nice, but it's not as good as actually talking face to face. But I have noticed you're always busy and you're always doing something, and it was time to catch up with what's new in the world of Mike.

Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Yeah, yeah. There's been so much. I have I guess my day job, which is overseeing a bunch of cash-based medical clinics. And in the last six months, we opened two new locations, one in Orange County, California, and one in a town called Murrieta, California by a half hour away. And yeah, we've been pretty busy.

John: Yeah. Well, we're going to want to hear about that today and I'll mention why to me this is such an important topic. When I think about cash-based practices, I think what is the biggest pain in whatever from practicing medicine? Sometimes its long hours, sometimes if you're working for a big corporation you can get burned out, but basically it's all the rigmarole you have to go through to get paid if you're using care through an insurer, Medicare, Medicaid, you name it. You have to add more staff. You get paid less and less each year, despite the fact that we're in the middle of an inflationary time. I am assuming that was one of the reasons that you started all this years ago. What were the main reasons that you started cash-based businesses?

Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: This is now our 11th year of starting my first practice. As you know I'm kind of wired differently. I don't want to go back into my history, but I was a primary care physician, worked for someone for five years, and just like you, I learned firsthand about some of the frustrations and complications of dealing with insurance-based medicine. From spending long hours with the electronic medical record to trying to get something what I believe was the best treatment for my patients, but then getting a denial letter and then just having to do that dance just to see what we could do to best help our patients.

And so, I said out from the beginning, actually starting it, and probably pretty naive, was, "What could I do where I didn't have to rely on insurance based medicine?" And I just basically looked and learned about what are different ways that I could get cash to make sure I could not only myself get paid, but my employees who are very hardworking and that they deserve their rewards, and that we can do this and make it viable. And we certainly have had our ups and downs just like any entrepreneur, but like I said, we just celebrated, this will be our 11th year and we're expanding. So, we must be doing something right.

John: Absolutely, you've made it work. If I recall correctly, you've tried different things in the cash-based arena. Maybe give us a look at some of that. You can either walk through what you've done over the last 11 years, or just pick and choose whatever you think are the highlights we should know about.

Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Right. Just as yourself, family medicine, we wear many hats, we know lots of different things, experts at none. But the first thing that I wanted to do was I wanted to start a medical practice on things that I was interested in. And at the time, gosh, this is probably late thirties, early forties. And I was looking at my mortality as I was getting older, and I was like, "Hey, what can I do to live longer, be there for my kids?" So, I was looking at things and I know your audience may or may not agree on some of these things, but I was looking at things like testosterone replacement, being in primary care I had patients who benefited from that.

And that was my first foray into that. And then it moved into different things. Weight loss was obviously something that I've struggled with, and I learned that there were practices that had done these, who had did this. They didn't take insurance, and they were pretty successful. And there was one in particular franchise out of Texas that was dealing with men's care, men's healthcare, and they were introducing these things. And I actually happened to meet with the CMO from there. He was interested in hiring me to become a medical director and bridge things in Southern California. And we opened two or three locations back then, but I didn't learn, I didn't learn that it might be more difficult to do this. And they actually stopped. They actually stopped putting in the funding for these clinics.

If you know anything about me, and you do, I'm a bit stubborn. And I said, "Well, there are things that they did, and I could learn from their mistakes and I could do things my own way." I also happen to have a good friend who would help open some weight loss clinics also in Texas. And she showed me some information. And so, I got that as well before I actually started my own.

Those were kind of my first forays into cash based practices. Just dealing with things that I wanted to do personally, that I was particularly interested. And I think if you want to be successful in a business, you got to do something that you are interested in and hopefully that you love doing, and then you're going to be more energized and ready to make it work. And those are my first few ways that I got interested in cash-based practices.

John: Well, it's funny you say how you should be passionate about and interested in. You might remember that about, I don't know, seven years ago I started urging care centers with some partners. And I think we're getting ready to open our third, although I've not set foot in the clinic in over a year and I did come to realize about two or three years ago that I kind of hate this. So, I don't tell anybody. I'm trying to extricate myself. And it's not a good plan for being committed to something in an ongoing fashion. So, you started your first clinic. You were doing some of those things that you just talked about. Now, did it stay that way? Did it morph over time? Did you add a clinic right away, or did you have that one for an extended period?

Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: My clinic is a little bit different in that I had this thing that maybe it was that Kevin Costner, "If you build it, they will come." Field of Dreams. And we started off doing hormone replacement. We started doing weight loss. I also had done a lot of different, as yourself, probably a lot of different sports physicals. We did some occupational medicine.

I wanted to do services not only that people wanted to do, but stuff they had to do. So things like employment physicals, DOT physicals, those kinds of things. They don't pay a lot, but it started to give us some regular patients that had to come in every couple years, at least in terms of DOT physicals.

And then I started getting into veteran's disability evaluations. San Diego was a big military town, and there's a big base nearby. And those were areas where I got paid for doing disability evaluations. We just slowly introduced different things. And then we had some cross promotions sometimes, patients who were coming in. They were also looking at our different weight loss treatments that we had for them. Then they got interested in those different things. About three or four years in, we added aesthetics. And my thing was almost like a one stop shop. We started introducing different treatments, different things just to get people into the door. And now we're well established into the clinic.

And then last year I just said it, I want to do this all again in a new location where they don't know anything about me. And that's what ended up happening. But people are getting the word out. We've actually had some interest in investors and such. I think we got to make it work. And I think if there's one thing that I pride myself on ever since this journey is that I've always made payroll. I've always made payroll and making sure that my employees got compensated. Because let's face it, I wouldn't have a business if I didn't have outstanding employees who are dedicated and loyal.

I certainly don't know everything. I'm always continuing to learn. There's always new ways to get into, there's always increased competition. You got to stay on your toes. But yeah, so far, it's made it work. And now I've been recently doing more training and consulting and helping other doctors learn how to do the same thing that I'm doing.

John: When I get out of that, then say you started with some core services that you knew well, you liked doing, and they were cash-based, and then you just found other new services that you could add over time that were also cash-based. You're not pouring into the insurance world at all from what I hear. So, that's cool.

I just want to spend a couple of minutes taking a real high view. What you're doing obviously is starting a small business. There's a whole process to that. So if someone who's thinking of doing this, what are those things that one should think about? Whether it's planning, financial, legal at a high level, what are some of the things that as physicians we don't necessarily know about, but you're going to have to master in order to create something like this or get consultants?

Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Anytime you're starting on any business, of course, there are some things that you need to think about. First off, should you do it? Is this something that it's for you? If you're looking to "Hey, here's something that I can do that's going to be making some passive income." Well, this isn't the place for you. There's always real estate. There's always different things, syndications. There's always other things that you can be doing and putting in your money. For me, it was more of I have a medical license and I feel that I still should use it.

As you know, I actually had left clinical medicine for some time, started my own company. And I hear my mom, her son is the doctor. I come from a family of doctors and I still wanted to be able to use it. And even when I was out of medicine, I would still do some volunteer work doing sports physicals for my kids' games and things like that. But this was a way that I could leverage what I had.

I know we talk about nonclinical careers. I still wanted to do some clinical aspects in my life. And this allowed me to do it. But I think an important distinction between what I did, and sometimes I get some flak from other doctors, is I didn't want to be the one solely performing all of the different services. And I think that's where I differentiate myself from being just a solo practitioner, the solo doctor who's seeing all the patients. I know for some it can be very rewarding, but it also doesn't allow you to grow. You're still dependent on your income on how many patients that you see, as I've said many times.

And so, I wanted to create where I've trained all of the employees and I wanted to make sure that they're highly trained, but then be able to see the patients. So, I have nurse practitioners. I've hired physicians' assistants, I have RNs, I've had LVNs, I've had medical assistants. I'm not always in the clinic. That's allowing me to grow and scale and focus on my intention of what I need to do is to make sure that we're viable, that we're continuing to grow, that we're paying all the bills on time, that we're paying all the employees on time. That's what I do. I've then slowly given a lot of those different tasks and then delegated to my office manager and things like that.

I know I went down a tangent on there, but I think the first thing is to see if you actually want to do this. If you're someone who wants to do this, if you want to become your own boss, and that was again, very important to me to have some control dictated on the revenue that's coming in. Those are the first things to actually think about. But you have to actually look in to see what you can do. And you can start out small. You can start out small.

On my podcast, I interviewed a doctor who became a very successful med spa owner. She was an emergency room doctor, and she just said "I wanted to do something on my own. I'm interested in aesthetics, so I'm just going to rent a room for half day a week." That was her first beginning of it. And that's what I would actually recommend is actually just trying it out. Or even if you have an opportunity, shadow somebody for a month. Remember we used to do that in third year medical school and then we decided our whole career based upon that. It's surprising that I still see docs who said, I'm opening up a med spa, but they don't even know if they actually even like it. And they haven't taken the time to shadow and to actually see it. It's more than just taking a Botox course over the weekend. It's like, "Okay, this is how you get trained to actually do this procedure. But what about being the owner? What about having to deal with all of the other aspects of being an employer as you know a lot about?

John: Yeah, there's definitely a lot to it but I think you're right. Shadowing is awesome. I never used to put that, even for a nonclinical career, advice. I thought good about get mentors, maybe get a coach, do this, do that. But it was only recently someone reminded me you could actually spend time with someone and see what they're doing, shadowing that way. And you're going to learn a whole lot more than just talking for 10 minutes to a mentor or an hour to a coach. So that's really good advice.

Okay. Now you did allude to a little bit ago that through all this now, because you've been doing it for so long, and you've been doing this for a while, you're teaching other people how to do things. You've always done consulting or coaching or the merger of those two. Tell us now what's going on with that. I know you help us with the podcast, but you do these consulting and courses and so forth. So just lay out for us what you've got going on now and what you plan on doing.

Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Yeah, I've always done consulting in this aspect. I have a small number of clients who I've helped over the years, especially during COVID. I wasn't doing any training as most people were doing but I would always get inquiries. I'm helping a doctor in Northern California building up a weight loss clinic. Another doctor out of Florida and we've helped them build up an anti-aging direct pay practice.

I have clients like this where they work with me, they pay me quite a bit of money to help them do it. It's not a small thing. But then when you look at terms of some of the revenue that they're generating, the average is at least $500,000 a year to a million, million plus a year.

And I'm short-cutting their success to actually do it. I feel that they get a bargain. But that being said is, I enjoy consulting and I enjoy training, and I like working with people who are starting up. And one of the reasons that I wanted to do more of this is because there are some changes that are happening in California where you can be a mid-level provider. I know that's a term people don't like, but you can be a nurse practitioner. I know, I'm just upsetting your audience, half your audience already, but they can now open up their own clinics. They can open up immense spas. And there's been a lot more competition.

I still want more physicians to be more empowered and to think that they can actually do this because there are non-doctors who are opening these kinds of things. I just spoke to a young man recently who's starting as an IV therapy practice. Nice guy but he is not medically trained. In my opinion, I feel that physicians should take back the role as being the main healthcare educator and leader in this. And so, I wanted to create more training to help doctors do this and make it seem it's not as difficult as could be. Kind of follow my lead into this.

So, I am doing some free trainings and some, and some other trainings if they want to take it even further where they can learn more about and just to see if this is something that they want to do. I'm creating some live trainings that are coming up that we're doing to kind of help that. And now, through the power of Zoom and everybody's doing virtual trainings, these kind of things, this has been more accessible. And so, I'm always eager to do this. I always have my teaching hat and love working with other doctors. And if they're so inclined and want to learn more, we've got some resources where they can find out more.

John: Now, I know people in my audience, although we talk about nonclinical careers, reality is most physicians really enjoy medicine when it's done appropriately and in a way that is good for them and not some assembly line worker in a hospital. But they don't have the business knowledge or the marketing knowledge that you have. So, if they want to learn more about this kind of thing, where would they go to find that?

Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Yeah, we'll have a link. I assume you'll leave a link in the show notes. It's called bootstrapmd.com/go/cashpractice. And that's all lowercase. And that'll take you to the resources. You can watch a free training, learn more about my story, and then decide if this is something you want to proceed, I can give you different ideas where you could start your own practice. And I've helped doctors in so many different locations. If you want to build a med spa, you don't necessarily have to be on Park Avenue or Beverly Hills. I've seen aesthetic practices grow out of Fargo, North Dakota that are making multi-millions of dollars.

My own location, my main location, it's basically in a small medical complex. My other office is on a six story of a 12 story building, medical office. I've got a weight loss clinic that's in front of a strip mall. But it doesn't have to be very flashy. It doesn't have to be very expensive. I think in that training that I do, if they decide to look at it, I have one slide of my first picture of my first practice. And this furniture it's like the cost plus rejects. The blood pressure monitor, the automated blood pressure monitor is on like a student desk. Because I couldn't afford to get something but we made it all work. Although my medical office manager still says they don't spend too much on furniture.

John: They don't get enough money, a budget for that.

Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Yeah. One of my RNs who actually does this kind of thing, I gave her a budget and she was able to make it much nicer. That's one of my weaknesses in some of these things. I don't have a very good interior decorating.

John: I'm with you there. I talk to my colleagues here who are burned out and so forth and I bring up things like DPC, concierge medicine, start something like, "Well, no, this is the wrong area." It's like, man, there's people here that have money that want to get these services. They're driving up to Chicago an hour away to get these things. But it's a mindset thing. And so, I liked your idea earlier too, of starting small and if it's working, then you just expand it. If it doesn't work, you try something else.

Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Yeah. Yeah. I always will try something just to see if it works. As Thomas Edison say we're one step closer to success after all the failures that he had in creating the light bulb.

John: Absolutely. Okay. I will put that link in the show notes. I pretty much always ask my guests what advice would you have just in general for physicians who are in a situation where they don't feel happy, they're unfulfilled, they're suffering? They might have burnout, maybe not, but they're just not getting out of medicine what they thought they were going to.

Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Well, the one thing, if they're listening to this, then I hope they understand that they do have options. They're different opportunities. If it is truly burnout and depression, please talk to somebody for this. Talk to a professional to see what that is. But if it is that you're not feeling that you're being fulfilled, which I wasn't, and I know you weren't as well in your career at one time, is that there are different options and to seek what you want to do.

I got an inquiry from somebody who say "Where is the best place where I can find a mentor?" Well, the thing is, there are people who are doing what you want to do. Seek out those people if that's what you want to do. If you want to start up a cash based medical practice come follow me. If you want to start up, get really successful in real estate, well, there are people who are very successful at real estate.

I think it's been amazing since you were starting your podcast and how much everything has been grown, and you can actually find different people who actually happen to be doctors, which I love, who are actually doing these kinds of things. They're developing businesses, they're developing telemedicine practices and they're doing these kinds of things. So seek them out. And if they have products and they have courses, well, the best way you can become a student is to purchase those products and courses and then just to see.

One of the reasons why I created this is to make something that's a little bit more affordable. You don't have to come to me for one-on-one coaching, which I've actually kind of put that on the back burner these days. It's to purchase these kinds of things and then not just have it purchasing it. Because a lot of people think just because I purchased it, then I've done it. No, you actually watch it, actually implement these kinds of things.

One of my courses that I have, not in this field, but in coaching, it's 33 hours and it's a lot of information. But most of them, and this is probably on me as a coach, is they don't get through the first few parts of it. There are some people who do complete everything. But it's more than actually just going through the material. You didn't become a doctor just because you showed up to the class. You actually had to pass the classes to get you to become successful in what you're doing.

John: Absolutely. You got to make that commitment and actually devote the time and effort. The information is there for you. And usually someone like yourself is also willing to answer questions, emails, and what have you, because they want this to work. They want this person to get that new skill and implement it.

All right, Mike, this has been very fascinating. I really am glad we were able to catch up again. I'll be looking to see what you're up to in the next six to 12 months. All right, Mike, with that, I'll say goodbye then. We'll see you next time.

Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Thank you, John. Have a good day.

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Many of the links that I refer you to are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you.

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post How to Start and Grow a Profitable Cash Based Medical Practice – 293 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

This week, we discover that the Medical Matchmaker has a traditional solution for burnout: joining the right medical group.

Dr. Lara Hochman is a Family Medicine physician. She graduated from the University of Texas School of Medicine and finished her family medicine residency at St. Anthony North Hospital in Oklahoma City.

Solving the Burnout Problem

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Happy Day Health Services

Dr. Hochman loved medicine but detested the healthcare system. So, she founded her company to provide a remedy for the burnout it produces. She steps in to act as a medical matchmaker, connecting doctors to physician-owned practices.

Happy Day Health assists physicians in locating practices that closely reflect their personal and professional values. In the process, it helps practices find physicians. Dr. Hochman also provides advice to physicians about creating their resumés, understanding their contracts, and preparing for interviews.

Building the Medical Matchmaker Business

During the interview, Lara describes how starting a business requires accepting uncertainty and learning as you go. In medicine, we are taught to aim for perfection and spend many years learning the rules. In business, however, it is sometimes necessary to learn on the fly, make mistakes, and course-correct as needed along the way. 

This process can be exhausting and emotionally distressing, but it will lead to a point where you feel confident in what you're doing. By following your instincts, and maintaining a commitment to make a difference you find satisfaction and encouragement to keep going. 

Challenges for Physicians Going ‘Private'

When comparing private practice with hospital-based practices, salary is often the driving factor that influences a physician's selection. But that can be short-sighted. In a small practice, you have an opportunity to be a decision-maker. And the long-term benefits of autonomy and becoming an owner should be considered. 

Working with and for other physicians is a much more collegial situation. It is less likely to create an inflexible corporate environment driven by patient volumes and the need to push downstream revenues.

Dr. Hochman's Advice

When it comes to salary… it can actually potentially be much higher in private practice. You just have to be able to delay gratification a little bit longer… Also, if you find a practice that you feel will treat you well and pay you a salary that you're happy with, do it. Don't wait. 

Summary

Dr. Lara Hochman has dedicated herself to connecting physicians with private practices run by other physicians. In the process, she is helping to prevent and overcome the burnout that occurs when working in a high-volume corporate environment. And by doing so, she overcome her own disappointment in the U.S. healthcare system and discovered her purpose. 

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Happy Day Health
• Dr. Lara Hochman's LinkedIn Page
• How to Save Healthcare, Satisfy Patients, and Fix Physician Burnout – 256
• Who Can Help When Private Practice Matters? – 174
• NewScr!pt

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 273

How the Medical Matchmaker Provides a Solution to Burnout

- Interview with Dr. Lara Hochman

John: In the town that I work in, well, I still work here, but when I used to practice here, both hospitals, small town outside of Chicago, I would see these groups come and go where a physician would hire a partner and then they'd leave after two or three years. And it's really uncommon to find a really well-run practice. But I have a friend who's a gastroenterologist, he's got eight partners. They've had a practice who's going for over 30 years and it just runs so well. And they have no trouble recruiting and they're all happy. They like what they're doing. So that's what we're going to talk about today.

Now we normally talk about nonclinical jobs or careers, but one of the principles I go by is that I think physicians should be happy, and I believe in physicians working for other physicians as opposed to working for corporations. So, with that, I want to welcome today's guest. Hello, Dr. Lara Hochman.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Hi. Thank you so much for having me today.

John: You're welcome. Yeah, this is not going to be about a nonclinical job. This is how to find a clinical job where you can be happy and fulfilled and wake up in the morning and actually look forward to going to work. So, tell me and our listeners here who you are, what you do, and maybe a little bit about your background.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Sure. I'm the medical matchmaker. I help physicians find practices that will really closely align with their value systems. And on the flip side, I also help practices find physicians. And then throughout that process I really help out with a lot of kind of coaching through what to talk about in the interview, all of those things. Negotiation, all that stuff.

I'm a family medicine physician. I still practice. I do locum tenens here where I work, where I live locally. And that's because I actually still love medicine. I do this in large part because I personally have been burned out and thought I hated clinical medicine and left medicine entirely thinking I was going to figure out what else to do. And then just this seemingly perfect job felt in my lap. It was terrifying because I was like, "But I don't like medicine anymore."

I decided to just take a risk and do it and figured out that I loved medicine. It was just the system I hated. I see that over and over again in so many people and I would like to be a part of the solution. I think once you're past the point of no return, then of course, clinical medicine may not be for you anymore. But there's so many of us that love clinical medicine and love everything. We just don't like the system. So, I'm out there to try to change it.

John: That's fantastic. Now when I think of clinical situations that physicians might enjoy, I do think about locums because although it's hard to necessarily set it up initially, it actually provides a lot of options and flexibility and so forth. I think of DPC and concierge care. But obviously, I also know of people, as I mentioned in the opening, that are working in jobs that they like because they have partners that they like. They have a practice that works well, the patients like them, and they're actually practicing traditional medicine even though we're in a system that tends to not favor that. Definitely I like to hear stories like this about someone who's doing the matchmaking.

So, how did you make that transition? It is difficult to start a new career and starting a new business is very challenging. So just a little bit about how you overcame some of the mindset issues and did you have to deal with family and say "Here's what I'm going to do." How did that come about?

Dr. Lara Hochman: Oh, my goodness. That is such a big question. Yeah, it was very interesting. There were parts of my family that I thought would be supportive that weren't, and there were parts that I thought would not be supportive and were. So, it's interesting. I think overall they accept and support me in what I'm doing. They're there to cheer me on and to pet my back when I'm feeling down. But it really was a challenge. There are no words for how difficult it was. It puts medical school to shame.

John: Oh, really?

Dr. Lara Hochman: And it's a different type of difficult. Medical school is like this firehose of information. This was more "I taught myself how to do what I'm doing." I had no training in business, no training in I would say traditional recruiting. I don't consider myself a recruiter, but I didn't know how to find people. I'm not a salesperson. All those things that I have no idea.

I was teaching myself something how to do something very difficult. I don't often feel comfortable talking to new people. And so, here I am calling complete strangers. I've learned a lot of what to do and what not to do and what I can deal with. But talking to strangers is tough and that's a huge part of what I do.

There were so many challenges and the financial part of starting a business is just... There's a lot. The first thing that I did was even just deciding to start the company. There was a lot of mind drama that I was having about it. I never wanted to be a business person. I never wanted to start a business. I'm a physician at heart, that's what I love. I never saw myself doing this. I actively did not want to do it. But I just felt there was so much that needed to be done for physicians. And so, that kind of mission of trying to be a part of the solution really just overtook that. And it turns out I actually love it. This was such a nice surprise.

I would say the first step, even before I started a business, I've been working on facing my fears for years in other ways. And so, that probably helped as a precursor. In medicine, we're trained to do what we're told, we're trained to follow the steps and study what we need to study. And so, that was a big shift in "I'm going to do what I'm going to do, and there's no blueprint for it."

That was really interesting. Like most people that probably are listening right now, I'm a total perfectionist. I don't like to do something unless I already know how to do it, which you can't do in entrepreneurship. Someone once said, not even to me, it was in a conference, they said, "Start before you're ready." And I was like, "Oh my gosh, okay, I'm not ready. I'm starting." And I started that day.

John: Nice.

Dr. Lara Hochman: That was huge. And realizing that I'm going to do it imperfectly, and that's okay and I have to make mistakes in order to be better, that was okay too. All of the mistakes I've learned from. And there was a period of time, near the beginning, where I would sit down every morning, and have a big old cry. It was so hard. And then I was like, "Okay, what's bothering me?" And then I'd kind of think through "I don't know how to do this" or "I'm having a challenge with that."

I would actually take that. I was so drained and emotionally sad and I would just take that and turn it into, "Okay. Well, obviously something is not working. Let me see what I can fix." And it was lots of little changes over time that I had to figure out what to do. I think I will be figuring it out till the day I die. But it's gotten to the point now that I'm so much more comfortable with what I'm doing. I've figured out so many things and it's satisfying. I'm so satisfied with being able to create real change and affect lives and have an impact far greater than I could if I were still just seeing patients myself, which I still love doing.

John: Nice. A couple of observations. When you have such a principle or a passion, whatever you want to call it, something you're committed to, that can push you through the end a lot of times. So, that's awesome. And you said you were teaching yourself. Well, you had a great student because you're a physician. You've already demonstrated your ability to solve problems and research things and read and learn. That's one thing we forget. Yeah, if we go through med school and residency, we can certainly learn how to start a business if that's our desire. And I do think it's definitely needed.

Now I have interviewed several people that had startups of various sorts. Some were selling products, but typically the ones that are doing more of a service are connecting, are usually connecting one person to another. They tried to start a locums company, recruiting company or some other type. And it's always a chicken and egg because you're doing the recruiting on both ends at the same time. You need physicians who are looking for a job and then you need the companies that are looking for physicians. Was that a challenge for you or did you find a simple solution to solving that problem? How did that come about? Where did you start on that part of it?

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yes, that will probably be my biggest challenge always. Because my whole business is predicated on finding people and speaking to people. It came from putting myself out there just saying, "Hey, this is what I do." I was one of those people who wasn't on social media. I don't like my face in public. I'm a very, very private person. Sort of. I'm an open book, you can ask me anything, but at the same time, I was never that person. Just putting myself out there and letting people know what I do was big. Something that I'm still learning to do is tell people, "Hey, tell other people about me. Do you have friends? I can help you. I can help your friends." That was really important and still is. Going out and meeting as many people as possible is part of my job. And I actually love that. I may be shy on the inside, but I'm actually an extrovert. I love being around people.

John: Okay, nice. Now what kind of things do you look forward in a practice? Or do you have some way of knowing that "Okay, since I'm promoting that I'm going to match somebody with a practice where they're going to be very happy?" Are there certain characteristics of those practices that hopefully will at least try to ensure that there's going to be a good fit? There are always personalities and so forth, but just give us your take on that.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah, the first thing that I look for in a practice, even deciding if we're going to work together or not, is how I feel that they would treat their physician. A part of it is "are they financially stable?" Does it make sense financially for them to hire someone? Because if they can't, then you have a physician who maybe even moves cross country to work there and then they close their practice or they're not happy, you're not able to be paid. That's scary. Making sure they're financially stable is super important.

And then of course, just as important to that is the feeling that I get on how they will treat their doctors. A lot of it is what they say and what they're looking for. And a part of it is when they talk about "I want someone to be happy here." The kind of person that would really fit well as someone who is comfortable. Whatever it is. I want to hear from them why it's good working for them and I hear such great things. And of course, not everyone is going to be happy in every other environment. What is perfect for you would be different from what's perfect for me is different from what's perfect to the people listening. It's not necessarily that I'm looking for a specific thing other than I feel like they are going to be valued and have a voice and really cared for in a way and respected. Those are the main things I look for.

John: Are you able to find out what kind of turnover there has been at some of these practices? I suppose if they're pretty large, you can just ask around. Because to me that would be evidence of it. That's what I was talking about as I was introducing you, is that I've known many groups here where I am with one or two doctors to hire and they're just turning through them every two years because what they do is they treat them like residents. They never really talk seriously about partnership. And so, I figured they're always going to be a failure, but there's this other group that is very stable. So, is it possible to kind of get that information and to kind of key some of your decisions on that?

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah, that's huge. I think the biggest way of knowing if a practice will treat you well is how many doctors have come and gone. A lot of the practices that I work with are just single-physician practices that are ready to expand. I'm not going to get a good sense of if the physicians have come and gone. But I do get a sense of how they talk about their practice, how they talk about what they're looking for, how they talk about the kind of person that they would be to work with, and the rest of their staff turnover.

One of the practices I'm working with now, it's a single physician. She's had her practice for 12 years and she's looking for a true partner. She's looking for someone who will bring ideas and who will not just be a partner financially and business side, but really come up with their own ideas and be a part of running the practice. And her employees have been there six years or longer. More than likely, she's going to treat her physician well if she treats the rest of the office staff well.

John: Absolutely. Well, let's see. We've seen in general over the last decade or two or longer, migration to more employment with large corporations, hospitals, health systems and so forth. Which brings me to the next question. The reason for that is it seems like they have more money sloshing around and they can buy your practice or they can recruit you even if things don't work out and they end up firing you in two years, they have you tied in.

So, what kind of things do you tell your clients, the physicians, in terms of what to expect when they're looking for a job like this? And are they going to have to take that into consideration that they might benefit on this side, but maybe the monetary will be later? How does that work?

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah. And before I even go into that, I'll say that different physicians are at a different point of being able to hear that, like truly hear that or be open to that. That conversation isn't really important to them. When it comes to hospital versus private practice, I would say probably the biggest one that affects people is salary. We forget that we are still in a business. The practices that we're working for still have to make money. The smaller practices are putting a lot of money into.

The physician owners actually don't take a salary while they pay you your salary versus the hospitals who are getting money from the imaging and the labs and the referrals and all the things that they do. And some of them are hiring people who will order more of those tests and make more money and that's where your salary is coming from. So, they are happy to lose money on the clinic visits themselves because they know they're going to make it up in all these other ways. I do hear from physicians, "I just want to be paid fairly" without a true understanding of what that actually means.

One of the downsides of private practice is that it's a smaller system and this could be a benefit, pro or a con being smaller, but one of the cons is that it doesn't have those large systems set up to be able to provide these giant salaries and amazing health insurance benefits and paid time off. But with that, that's what we call the golden handcuffs. So, you go work for these systems and you get used to be paying whatever salary it is that you're used to, and then you feel like you can't leave no matter how they treat you.

That's one of the most important things that I see, I see doctors who go work for hospitals and maybe have an idea going into it that they're not going to be so happy, or it's wonderful, but then administration changes and it's time for them to get out of it because they're just miserable.

The biggest thing is to really prepare for those circumstances. That means not signing a non-compete where you wouldn't be able to work in the city you live in if you were to leave them.

If there is a non-compete, there has to be a way to get out of it. If they fire you, maybe the non-compete is void or you can have what's called a sunrise or a sunset close on your non-compete where it's not valid after a certain number of years working there. There needs to be some sort of wiggle room so that when you sign that contract with the hospital, you have a way of leaving them. Because they know that they've got us, they have us. We are not leaving because they're giving us the salary, they're giving us the time off and the health insurance and all these things that are amazing. And if we leave, we have to leave town. They don't care about us. If they actually cared about their physicians as human beings and medicine in general, and patients, they wouldn't be doing these things. They'd be retaining us by treating us well rather than retaining us by not giving us a choice otherwise.

John: No, that's absolutely true. And it's a reason you need to have a good attorney look at these contracts because there's usually some wiggle room. But if you don't even ask, you're not going to get the concessions. It's a really good point.

The other thing that I've seen in the past when I was working as a CMO is we would try to put the onus for the malpractice sometimes, or at least part of it on the physician. If they left after a year or two, they were going to be subject to tail coverage or something like that, which I've come to believe that's just ridiculous because it's a cost of doing business. If they won't do that, you shouldn't even consider working with an institution like that because again, it's the worst of the handcuffs and it's not fair.

Given that though, you might have to go with a private partner and what have you. The income at first might not be as high as what's published by hospitals, but long term you're going to be a lot happier and have a lot more satisfaction. Let me pause here, by the way. Give us your website address right now so I don't forget. Some people don't listen all the way to the end. So, we're going to find Happy Day Health where?

Dr. Lara Hochman: It's happydayhealth.co. And you can find me on LinkedIn as well. It's Lara Hochman MD.

John: Okay. We'll put that in the show notes and we'll talk about that again at the end here. Have you gotten any feedback from people that you've placed with these practices? Have you heard back from how things are going three, six months in?

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah, they're doing great. They're so happy. One guy said I saved his life, and there are no words for that. They're just happy and they're like, "I didn't realize, I had no idea what I was missing" or "Thank you for opening my eyes up to." I had a DBC recently, "Thank you for opening my eyes to DBC." Even a physician who I didn't place has said, "Thank you so much. You've changed the way I practice. You've changed the way I look for practices." So, it's a lot of fun. It's very rewarding and doctors are just happier. Some of these were physicians who were considering leaving medicine entirely and they're really enjoying it.

John: Any general advice now? Because someone who's been in practice has been burned out, they know they're looking for something different. But let's say you're coming out of residency and you really don't know, and again, you're going to be pulled into that funnel, you're going to see all these ads. Other advice or just things that they should think about a little bit before necessarily ruling out one of these potentially lower-paying but more life-affirming positions?

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I have so many things to say. When it comes to salary, the few things to know are to look at the starting salary and the potential earnings because it can actually potentially be much higher in private practice. You just have to be able to delay gratification a little bit longer. Also, especially for the new grads, I see very frequently where doctors want to interview at so many different places and then in the process, they may actually lose the perfect job where they know it's the one they want, but we're not used to making decisions and so we overanalyze it and take too much time and then can lose that.

I would say if you find a practice that you feel will treat you well and pay you a salary that you're happy with, do it. Don't wait. You don't want to lose out on something awesome because you were just kind of all over the place.

And I understand if you've never worked in a practice before as an attending, then how do you know what you're looking for? But as long as you protect yourself like we spoke about with a non-compete and all of those things, then you're good. But yeah, I would say pick the practice that will treat you the best because life is a journey. We're not racing to retirement. You want to enjoy every day.

John: Maybe if you're a resident or fellow and you're coming out and you've been in an academic situation or something, maybe you need to spend a little bit of time just talking to a couple of people who are in private practice as opposed to maybe everyone who's surrounded and they're in an academic practice or they're in a large hospital practice. Maybe talk to a few of those people that have been by themselves or in a small group or even a large group that's run by doctors. Maybe that'll give them a little insight into trying to make those decisions. Because you're right. It's easy to fall into that thing of just going with the higher salary and the upfront benefits, but later on you might regret it.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah.

John: All right. Again, the website is happydayhealth.co. They can reach you, Dr. Lara Hochman on LinkedIn. I think this is really exciting. I hope you all the success. You need to keep us posted. Even if you want to do a little recruiting here, let me know. I'll put the word out if you're really having a hard time finding somebody because I'm sure some of my listeners are like, "Yeah, nice practice is just as good a way to solve burnout as becoming an MSL or something." Anyway, it's been my pleasure talking to you and I really appreciate you coming on the podcast today.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

John: Okay, you're welcome. Bye-bye.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Bye.

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Disclaimers:

Many of the links that I refer you to are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you.

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post How the Medical Matchmaker Provides a Solution to Burnout – 273 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Today we provide an inspiring story and learn how to be an IME (Independent Medical Examiner) from an expert orthopedic surgeon.

Dr. Emily Woolcock is an internationally recognized speaker, best-selling author, mentor, and consultant. She is among the country’s most well-known orthopedic surgeons.

Dr. Woolcock is board-certified by the American Board of Orthopedic Surgery and the American Board of Independent Medical Examiners.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you really love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Dr. Woolcock Begins Doing IMEs

Dr. Woolcock founded businesses in Georgia, Florida, and Maryland. They include the Orthopedic and Joint Replacement Institute, the Accident Rehabilitation Center, and National Orthopedic Consultants. In 2016 she established the IME Academy. Through her course, she teaches students to perform defensible, literature-based independent medical examinations.

Emily is passionate about helping other physicians. Hence, she helps them break free from the work/life balance issues she experienced early in her career. As a wife and mother, she understands the struggles physicians and other healthcare professionals face. 

When she first began experiencing burnout, she found that a skill she learned in residency could solve her problem. She began performing highly-compensated independent medical exams. As a result, she could delegate work to team members and cut back on her office and operating room commitments.

Learning to Be an IME

Emily is a very creative and dedicated physician. She balances clinical work, performing IMEs, writing books, and mentoring dozens of young people. She is busy. Yet, she loves her work. And she is not burned out. 

This is the first time I have had a guest with expertise in performing IMEs. It is similar to what an expert witness does. But it also involves examining patients, which some of you might find more compelling as a side job.

Like expert witness work, learning to be an IME pays very well. You generally must continue to practice medicine, at least part-time.

Find out what makes you happy and learn to  integrate that with your vocational calling and you will be a much better, well-rounded person. – Dr. Emily Woolcock

Emily provided inspiration and valuable information. She clearly knows this topic well. If you’re interested in learning about how to be an IME you can find her course at theimeacademy.com.

Summary

Dr. Emily Woolcock describes her inspirational story. She discovered a way to reduce her work time while producing more income by performing Independent Medical Examinations. And in this interview, she explains how you can do the same thing to help improve your work-life balance. 

Links for Today's Episode:

• The IME Academy
• Dr. Emily Woolcock Website
• Dr. Emily Woolcock LinkedIn Page
• My Doctor Looks Like Me, by Emily d. Woolcock, MD (female ver.)
• My Doctor Looks Like Me, by Emily Woolcock, MD (male ver.)
• Mi Doctor Looks Like Me, by Emily Woolcock, MD (Spanish ver.)
• Looks Like Me Books Facebook Page

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Disclaimers:

Many of the links that I refer you to, and that you’ll find in the show notes, are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you, that I have personally used or am very familiar with.

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post Learn to Be an IME and Improve Your Life – 177 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

For today’s interview, we discuss money issues, coaching, podcasting, and how to master your finances.

I have the pleasure of speaking with a fellow podcaster, and one of our Mentors on the Clinicians Career Cooperative, Dr. Brent Lacey.

Brent received his medical degree at the UT Health San Antonio program. Then, he completed his internal medicine residency and his gastroenterology fellowship at the Naval Medical Center San Diego. And while still in training, he became an instructor for Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace Unversity. Instructing the course helped cement his personal finance knowledge. And it enables him to teach you how to master your finances.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, unlike other programs, this program only takes a year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you really love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Helping to Master Your Finances

Gastroenterologist Brent Lacey is passionate about his patients. However, he is also committed to helping physicians succeed with business and personal finances. As a physician, he understands how overwhelming it can be to step out of training and into a career. And he has seen firsthand the huge educational gap that exists in running a practice and managing money. 

He has coached hundreds of families to eliminate debt. And he has spoken to physician groups around the country on these topics. Subsequently, he founded The Scope of Practice website, blog, and podcast.  

Coaching

Brent has quickly grown his coaching business. It seems there is an endless need for education addressing personal finances and running a clinical practice. Too, there are certain skills for balancing the two and reserving time for family.

The biggest thing to recognize is that you've gotten through medical school so that means that you are extremely capable. – Dr. Brent Lacey.

Brent is active on every major social media site: @businesscoachmd on Twitter, and @thescopeofpractice on Instagram. The easiest way to find his Facebook Group is to use this link: thescopeofpractice.com/facebookpage. In the group, he and other members discuss practice issues, investing, and how to master your finances.

Summary

Brent teaches us through his example that you can balance a thriving practice with a podcast and coaching business. And if you listen to his podcast or engage him for coaching, he will teach you how to do the same.

Links for Today's Episode:

• The Scope of Practice Web Site
• The Scope of Practice Podcast
• Dr. Brent Lacey's LinkedIn Page
• Financial Peace University
• The Scope of Practice Facebook Page

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Disclaimers:

Many of the links that I refer you to, and that you’ll find in the show notes, are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you, that I have personally used or am very familiar with.

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. It should not be construed as medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post How to Run Your Business and Master Your Finances – 176 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

On this week's episode of the PNC podcast, Dr. Nneka Unachukwu discusses how starting her own practice as a physician entrepreneur has empowered her to create the career in medicine she wants.

A pediatrician by training, Dr. Una began learning how to run her own practice unintentionally while working her first job. When a relocation forced her to find a new opportunity, she was a bit unsure what to do.

Only 15 months out of residency, she did not imagine that it would be possible to start her own practice. But her employer/mentor reminded her that she was doing most of that work already.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country, with over 650 graduates. Unlike other programs, which typically run 1 – 1/2 to 2 years, this program only takes a year to complete. And Economist Magazine recently ranked the business school #1 in the world for the Most Relevant Executive MBA.

University of Tennessee PEMBA students bring exceptional value to their organizations. While in the program, you'll participate in a company project, thereby contributing to your organization.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations. And they've become entrepreneurs and business owners.

By joining the University of Tennessee physician executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to advance your career. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office by calling (865) 974-6526 or go to vitalpe.net/physicianmba.

Equipped with Optimism

One benefit to Nneka being so young when she started her own practice was that she was a bit naïve about the potential risks of the venture. Un-phased by challenges, and equipped with optimism, she leaned into the business opportunity. 

Nneka soon realized that being a clinician and a business owner were two different skill sets. So, she immersed herself in learning entrepreneurship in order to quickly build her practice.

She began by studying other private practices, and answered these questions: 

• Which services do they offer? 
• What kind of brands do pediatricians project?
• Are they tracking their online reviews?
• How good (or bad) are their reviews?
• What do people like about them?
• What do people hate about them?

Then, she began to learn the language of entrepreneurship. She read business books, watched YouTube videos, and asked questions of other practice-owners. 

The second step was taking (sometimes messy) action. Nneka found that she had to pick a direction and take action, learning as much as possible along the way. Then she would refocus and shift if necessary. 

The post How to Be a Successful Physician Entrepreneur – 123 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.