benefits management Archives - NonClinical Physicians https://nonclinicalphysicians.com/tag/benefits-management/ Helping Hospital and Medical Group Executives Lead and Manage With Confidence Tue, 19 Nov 2024 12:16:59 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 https://nonclinicalphysicians.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/cropped-1-32x32.jpg benefits management Archives - NonClinical Physicians https://nonclinicalphysicians.com/tag/benefits-management/ 32 32 112612397 Health Insurance Medical Director Is Still A Popular Job https://nonclinicalphysicians.com/health-insurance-medical-director/ https://nonclinicalphysicians.com/health-insurance-medical-director/#respond Tue, 19 Nov 2024 12:16:19 +0000 https://nonclinicalphysicians.com/?p=38258 Interview with  Dr. Neetu Sharma - 379 In this podcast episode, John sits down with Dr. Neetu Sharma, who recently transitioned from a demanding nephrology practice to a health insurance medical director while maintaining a virtual clinical presence.  In sharing her story, Dr. Sharma describes the challenges of managing patients at six hospitals, [...]

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]]> Interview with  Dr. Neetu Sharma – 379

In this podcast episode, John sits down with Dr. Neetu Sharma, who recently transitioned from a demanding nephrology practice to a health insurance medical director while maintaining a virtual clinical presence. 

In sharing her story, Dr. Sharma describes the challenges of managing patients at six hospitals, taking weekend “call” duty covering up to 120 inpatients, and the added stress of COVID-19 that led her to explore alternative career paths, ultimately finding fulfillment in utilization review.

John and Neetu discuss the realities of working as a medical director, debunking common misconceptions about insurance companies. And they explore how physicians can achieve improved work-life balance.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career you love. To learn more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

For Podcast Listeners

  • John hosts a short Weekly Q&A Session on any topic related to physician careers and leadership. Each discussion is posted for you to review and apply. Sometimes all it takes is one insight to take you to the next level of your career. Check out the Weekly Q&A and join us for only $5.00 a month.
  • If you want access to dozens of lessons dedicated to nonclinical and unconventional clinical careers, you should join the Nonclinical Career Academy MemberClub. For a small monthly fee, you can access the Weekly Q&A Sessions AND as many lessons and courses as you wish. Click the link to check it out, and use the Coupon Code “FIRSTMONTHFIVE” to get your first month for only $5.00.
  • The 2024 Nonclinical Summit is over. But you can access all the fantastic lectures from our nationally recognized speakers, including Dr. Dike Drummond, Dr. Nneka Unachukwu, Dr. Gretchen Green, and Dr. Mike Woo-Ming. Go to Nonclinical Summit and enter Coupon Code “30-OFF” for a $30 discount.

Inside the Role: What a Health Insurance Medical Director Does

The transition to medical director involved a structured 9-to-5 remote schedule, reviewing cases for compliance with CMS guidelines, and ensuring appropriate resource utilization. Dr. Sharma debunks the myth that insurance companies focus solely on denials, explaining how the role involves complex case reviews, peer-to-peer discussions, and collaboration with clinical teams.

Before starting her primary duties, the insurer provided comprehensive training. Neetu quickly developed the skills to handle cases from regular inpatient admissions to complex long-term acute care situations.

Creating Your Unique Path: Blending Tradition and Innovation

One of the most interesting aspects of Dr. Sharma's transition is how she's created a hybrid career model. While working as a medical director, she maintains clinical skills through virtual practice and weekend calls, launched an online wellness program, and is expanding into nationwide virtual care.

This approach enables Neetu to leverage her expertise while maintaining a better work-life balance.

Summary

Dr. Sharma's journey, which included certification by the American Board of Quality Assurance and Utilization Review Physicians and training with the Institute of Functional Medicine, offers a blueprint for physicians seeking similar career changes.

For those interested in learning more about utilization review or career transitions, Dr. Sharma welcomes connections through LinkedIn, email (staff@zealvitality.com), or her website, where you can schedule a call to discuss your career path.

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 379

Health Insurance Medical Director Is Still A Popular Job

- Interview with Dr. Neetu Sharma

John: It's been a long time since I interviewed a physician who recently left traditional clinical medicine to start a career as a medical director for a health insurance company. But I recently connected with someone on LinkedIn who's doing just that. And she's also maintaining a clinical practice and mentoring physicians and doing some other things. Dr. Neetu Sharma, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Thank you, John, it's my pleasure to be here.

John: I'm really happy to hear your story. This is going to be interesting. I think it's good to have someone who's recently made a transition and because there's a lot of physicians listening who are thinking or have been thinking about it for a long time and haven't done it. They can get some good inspiration from you. So, yeah, just tell us a little bit about your background and your medical education and clinical practice and things that were going on before you made a shift.

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yeah, thank you for having me here, John. I have been listening to your podcast and got a tremendous help with my career. So thank you for doing that. And I wanted to give back to your community. So that's why I'm here today. I did my residency in Detroit with internal medicine, then went to University of Cincinnati for my fellowship in nephrology.

And I have been Michigander, I've been in Michigan for a while. I returned here for my clinical practice after my training. And I was with a private practice for the past eight years, but I have been in clinical practice for about 15 years going. And I was, to be honest, getting to the point where I was getting burned out. As a nephrologist, you have to go from clinics to the hospitals, to dialysis clinics. So it's a lot. And I was on call every other weekend and when you're on call, you're seeing, pretty much I was covering six hospitals and seeing about 120 on average patients on that weekend call. And I wasn't getting any day off after that. And you come back on Monday tired.

And so, it took a while for me to look into different options. And last year I actually ran into somebody who was doing utilization review for insurance plan. And he kind of gave me an overview how happy he was, how he had a control on his life. Then I thought it's interesting to know, and I started digging more into it. And I happened to listen to a few of your other interviews about utilization review, got a tremendous help from that. And I became a member with the American Board of Quality Assurance and Utilization Review of Physicians, got certified with them last year. And then started my journey with interviews with the health insurance plans and ended up with a major health plan starting this year as a medical director.

John: Very good. Okay, I'm going to go back to the whole beginning of this. To some extent, how long was it that you were feeling kind of overwhelmed and kind of, I don't know, overworked before you decided, like in your mind, you said, "You know what? I'm definitely going to make a change." Obviously if you signed up to do the education, that was really concrete, but what was that timeframe like for you?

Dr. Neetu Sharma: John, COVID changed a lot of things and it was around 20 when the COVID hit. I got pay cut. I was working overtime. I was taking care of patients in the hospital. I was completely burnt out to the point that I started thinking there shouldn't be a better way of practicing medicine. Especially in nephrology, I can tell you that other nephrologists might relate to it that we deal with very complex patients who are having life-threatening disease.

And we lost a lot of patients during COVID and that was quite depressing. I felt like I wasn't making a difference in the lives of these patients and there was no job satisfaction. At that point, I started looking into other answers, functional medicine, and I became a fellow with the Institute of Functional Medicine, got some training in that. I decided that I want to transition and do a holistic approach to help my patients. And then at the same time, I started looking for utilization review jobs too.

John: The story that you're telling is not uncommon and there's a lot of physicians still where you were a year or two ago. Did you get a sense that the organization you were working for, like, had any sort of recognition that the physicians were getting burned out like yourself or were they putting in place any plans to try and address that? Or were they just saying you got to do what you got to do and that's just the way it is?

Dr. Neetu Sharma: The way things are, unfortunately it's all run around and seeing more patients and working hard, but not getting the reward for it or getting satisfaction of taking care of those patients. Because if you have five minutes to spend or 10 minutes to spend in the office with it, how much difference you can make in the lives of your patients? You are just giving out pills. And that did not set with my principles, with my goals of becoming a physician. And I wanted to do something more for my patients. And that's what led me here where I am today.

John: Just for background, about how big was the group that you were actually working in?

Dr. Neetu Sharma: We started with five physicians. When I joined, I was the third one. We grew the group to five. Then slowly, everybody left the group.

John: It sounds like that's kind of how it goes often, especially if you don't have a large group that can kind of absorb the ins and outs of employing physicians in a group or being partners. But okay, let's see. Let's get back to your new career now. Did you say someone had recommended this? You had talked to someone about it? Sounds like you zeroed in on that particular career pretty quickly. Was there other things you had considered?

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yeah, I was looking into different things at that time. I was looking into pharmaceuticals. I was also looking with the FDA. I actually got offered from the FDA as well for the medical device position because they deal with a lot of the international investors who bring the medical devices to US and they have to make sure it's not a public hazard. So for public safety, they have engineers, they have physicians who are looking into those devices and other technology to make sure they are compliant. And that was the position I was offered. But then I ended up with this major health plan, which was local. So I thought it would be nice to see the team once in a while to have more collaboration and face-to-face interaction. And that would lead to the position.

John: Okay, you did, obviously you're in a big metropolitan area, fairly big. And so, the company that you chose had at least one office in that area. So that was one of the big draws for you?

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yes.

John: Okay, but that leads me into this question about what's the job like? Because I have a feeling you probably don't spend nine to five at that office every day, do you? What's that like, the actual job? And is it remote and how remote and all that?

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yeah, right now it is a remote job from nine to five, eight to five, I would say. My day starts at eight o'clock and I am in utilization review as a medical director. So my main job is reviewing all the cases and making sure they are in compliance with CMS published guidelines and with the medical policies in place and making sure the resources the institute utilize is appropriate for that particular member.

I deal with different appeals and also collaborate with the clinical team, pharmacy and other clinical providers. I do have peer to peer calls on a regular basis. And my day ends by five, if not like 5.30, depending on how busy we are. But it's interesting because you're always in, you're talking to your team over the team meet or you are in a queue where you are interacting with the other team members. And you are also encouraged to go to the office once a week. So if I choose to go there, I can. But mostly the team that I could work as remote, so you don't get to see many people. But we do have team meetings every month where we collaborate, we see each other and celebrate the organization. So that's really nice.

John: Now, what's the job like? Because this is what people always are interested in terms of not only exactly what are the duties, but in terms of, is it really rushed? Are you expected to go through so many cases on a given day? Does it feel like a little bit overwhelming or is it a pretty relaxed feeling where you get a chance to really get into the cases, determine what you need to make a decision and then have a conversation and peer to peer if necessary?

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yeah, as a major corporation, they have set certain goals for the team members, including the medical directors. So we have certain goals to achieve, which also includes the number of cases you're doing every day. But in reality, many of these cases are complex cases.

They are high risk patients and it needs reaching out to the team, to the acute care hospitals, to other providers to get the feel of what the members have been going through. Always taught in a public view that insurance companies are there for denials, but that's not true because we really look into the utilization of resources and whether they are done appropriately. So we try to actually approve the cases if possible for the member and keeping members in mind, it is important to know what they're going through. Some of the complex cases take longer and it's not realistic to put those goals into that basket. Sometimes you meet those goals, sometimes not. But I think the leadership, they understand the complexity of this job.

And to be honest, I haven't, so far, like three months I have been with this health insurance plan. I haven't had any interaction where they're telling me that you haven't reached your goal today because they know that I am working hard to understand the utilization better, to help the members better. So our goal as an organization is mainly the member satisfaction.

John: Now, the medical side of what you're looking at and the records you're looking at and so forth, obviously is pretty straightforward for an experienced physician like you. But doing all the things you are doing with that information and then you've got reports to fill out and you're doing the communication, might be with nurses or other physicians or peers. How much training is involved and have you felt like that's gone pretty well in the first few months that you've been there?

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yeah, so it's a dynamic role because I will be doing different kind of cases. Sometimes we have complex case reviews, sometimes we are dealing with LTACH patients. Sometimes we have regular inpatient admission reviews where we are seeing the utilization of resources or the length of stay.

Those cases, they may vary and we get trained for at least a couple of weeks to get used to review those kinds of cases effectively. So I would say two weeks to one month is needed for each kind of category of the review you're doing. And it's an ongoing process.

It's training on jobs. So once I was trained on one particular area, I've been doing that for a while to get more proficient in that area and then I will be moved to some other area where I'll be reviewing more complex cases.

John: Yeah, in most of the physicians I've talked to over the years, it hasn't been a lot, but it goes back about seven years now. They tell me that basically there's a set of criteria they probably changed over the years, but just getting used to how you have to demonstrate compliance with whatever, the Medicare if it's a Medicare and you have certain different formats for doing that. But in any way, they say you just have to learn the system basically.

And when you're a generalist and someone who's an internist and a nephrologist, you know so much medicine. I had a pediatric cardiologist that went in doing the exactly the same thing you're doing. And it took him a little longer to kind of get the feel for things because he hadn't taken care of adults for 10 years. So I think you're in a good position.

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, my team is actually very diverse. We have pulmonologist, we have ER physician, we have pediatrician. So it's a very diverse team and we all are doing the same thing. And the learning process for everybody is different.

John: And it's new, something new. You're getting into it, but now that you're at this point is it kind of what you thought it would be? And are you so far, are you satisfied with the way the work is going and the support at the company and that kind of thing?

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yes, absolutely. I have a great team. They're very supportive and they listen to you, they listen to the feedback and they always put an effort to improve things.

John: Now, what I've heard sometimes is you can definitely do this full time and not do anything else, I think, but some of the companies do like to have their clinicians continue to have some activity so that they can, makes it a little easier to be current and in the treatment of certain conditions. So, you are still doing some clinical. So, if you don't mind telling us about that so we can see how that kind of fits in.

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yeah, these health insurance plans, they actually encourage you to do clinicals and get up to date with that because when you review the cases, you can relate to it better. So, I'm also doing some virtual practice and I also reached out to my previous practice to do some clinicals with them over the weekend, some weekend call, which I'm getting credentialed for. So, I don't want to lose touch with clinicals for sure, but I launched an online wellness program and some virtual care for nephrology patients as well.

John: Okay, now on the virtual side, were you doing any remote kind of virtual work before?

Dr. Neetu Sharma: No, this is all new for me. It's a learning curve.

John: Are you limiting the virtual care to the state you're licensed in now or are you licensed already in multiple states? How's that working? Because that can be a barrier sometimes.

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yeah, that is in process. I'm getting licensed throughout the US so that I can see some virtual patients. But right now I'm just offering a group program which is more like a health coach program.

John: Ah, okay. That one doesn't really have all the risk and the other aspects of sort of a true virtual remote telehealth or telemedicine type practice and the need to get to have your DEA and your licenses and all those things wherever you might be interacting.

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yeah, no, if you're seeing the patients and you're posing as a physician, then the risk is there, John. So, I would advise to take the full precaution. I have my malpractice insurance and I am doing my due diligence to be compliant with all the procedures involved with the virtual care. So, that is something we have to keep in mind.

John: Yeah, absolutely. You've got to know where you need those protections for sure or you'll end up in trouble. All right, well, thinking back your process seemed to go pretty well in terms of from the time you were burnt out and said something has to change to actually making the change. Do you have advice for others that might be in the situation you were in back a year or two ago?

Dr. Neetu Sharma: I would say that look for what you really want to do and get the feel of it. If you like utilization review, I would advise to start from your organization, from the hospital you are in or in a practice you are in to do some kind of utilization review, whether to join independent review organization and start reviewing those cases or participate in the hospital quality assurance, different committees to get the feel of the job. And if you really like to do that and then get serious about it and start applying.

John: Yeah, that makes sense. I have a friend who's... Well, now he's a CMO for a hospital, but that's what he started doing as a physician advisor for utilization management. He was reviewing charts, interacting with physicians. And then he took on more and more roles and he ended up staying in the hospital setting. But I think a lot of the people I've talked to started out just doing those kinds of things in the hospital setting. And then it makes it, I think, a little easier to transition to the payer side of things because you're not going into a blind.

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yeah, I'm sure those roles are overlapping.

John: I think some of our listeners will have questions for you, I'm sure. So let's see, one way they could reach you, I think, from talking before is basically LinkedIn. That's probably a safe way to get in touch with people. And if you just look up Neetu Sharma, you'll find her pretty easily. That's how I found her on LinkedIn pretty simply. But what other ways can they get ahold of you if they want to follow up or have questions for you?

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yeah, they can either email me directly at staffs@zealvitality.com or reach me on my website, zealvitality.com. But LinkedIn is a safe website and they can reach me. Neetu Sharma MD is my profile on LinkedIn.

John: The zealvitality.com is actually the website where you're doing some of this outreach and ongoing clinical or right now, I guess it's a group coaching type of thing.

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yeah, it has a schedule call through that website and they can put in the notes that they just want my advice or whatever they want to know about utilization review, I'll be happy to touch base with them.

John: Okay, the way things are going so far, you feel like this is something you can do for a while and really expand your challenges and your practice and your knowledge of medicine and patient care. It sounds like that's the direction you're going.

Dr. Neetu Sharma: That is true. So, it's a learning curve. A lot of things to learn about in medical school, you don't get taught about these entrepreneurship and you learn on your own and in this world where we are living virtually on social media, it is even more important to learn all that.

John: Yes, yes, it is. I think it can be daunting. It can be a little bit scary, but if you can get to residency and fellowship and practice, and like you said, working a hundred hours a week and challenging all these life and death decisions, you can start a side job or pursue a career with some kind of industry, whether it's like you did or pharma or hospital or whatever. But yeah I think it's easy to get kind of bogged down and forget that it really is something that thousands of physicians have done. So I think you're a good example of that.

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Yeah, I think the challenges are definitely there, but I am a big believer in delegation. So if you don't like to do something, then you delegate your work. And I think that will make your life much more easier and you pursue what you like to do.

John: Neetu, thank you so much for being with us today. I think that's about it for today. We're kind of out of time. So let me say goodbye and hopefully we can maybe get together again down the road.

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Thank you, John. It was a pleasure.

John: Okay, bye-bye.

Dr. Neetu Sharma: Bye-bye.

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]]> https://nonclinicalphysicians.com/health-insurance-medical-director/feed/ 0 38258 First Consider The Most Popular Full-Time Careers https://nonclinicalphysicians.com/popular-full-time-careers/ https://nonclinicalphysicians.com/popular-full-time-careers/#respond Tue, 03 Sep 2024 13:06:03 +0000 https://nonclinicalphysicians.com/?p=35460 Proven Options for Leveling Up - 368 This week John spends a few minutes sharing his thoughts on one of three popular full-time careers when preparing to "level up." Today John delves into the idea of "leveling up"- a journey of self-improvement that can lead you to a more satisfying and financially rewarding [...]

The post First Consider The Most Popular Full-Time Careers appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

]]> Proven Options for Leveling Up – 368

This week John spends a few minutes sharing his thoughts on one of three popular full-time careers when preparing to “level up.”

Today John delves into the idea of “leveling up”- a journey of self-improvement that can lead you to a more satisfying and financially rewarding career. Drawing inspiration from professional athletes and attorneys he shares how to take stock of your strengths, identify areas for growth, and set new goals to help you become the best version of yourself.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career you love. To learn more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

For Podcast Listeners

  • John hosts a short Weekly Q&A Session addressing any topic related to physician careers and leadership. Each discussion is now posted for you to review and apply. Sometimes all it takes is one insight to take you to the next level of your career. Check out the Weekly Q&A and join us for only $5.00 per month.
  • If you want access to dozens of lessons dedicated to nonclinical and unconventional clinical careers, you should join the Nonclinical Career Academy MemberClub. For a small monthly fee, you can access the Weekly Q&A Sessions AND as many lessons and courses as you wish. Click the link to check it out, and use the Coupon Code “FIRSTMONTHFIVE” to get your first month for only $5.00.
  • The 2024 Nonclinical Summit is over. But you can access all the fantastic lectures from our nationally recognized speakers, including Dr. Dike Drummond, Dr. Nneka Unachukwu, Dr. Gretchen Green, and Dr. Mike Woo-Ming. Go to Nonclinical Summit and enter Coupon Code “30-OFF” for a $30 discount.

Three Most Popular Full-time Careers for Physicians Seeking a Change

Suppose you’re a physician considering a career shift. In that case, John highlights three nonclinical roles that might be perfect for you: hospital Chief Medical Officer (CMO), pharma Medical Science Liaison (MSL), and insurance company Utilization Management (UM) Medical Director. These roles offer improved work-life balance, competitive pay, and full-time opportunities with major organizations. John describes each popular full-time career and how you can smoothly transition.

Your Network is Your Net Worth: Resources to Help You Succeed

Transitioning to a new career isn’t just about what you know, it’s also about who you know. In this section, Dr. John reminds us of the importance of building a strong professional network and leveraging resources like LinkedIn, the American Association for Physician Leadership (AAPL), and the MSL Society. He also recommends joining online communities like the Remote Careers for Physicians Facebook group, where you can connect with others who’ve made similar transitions and get advice on your next steps.

Summary

Sometimes it makes sense to level up your career to one that offers better pay and work-life balance. The three options described today have demonstrated that they generally meet those goals. If you're looking for full-time employment in a well-established industry John advises you to consider one of these popular options. 

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 368

First Consider the Most Popular Full-Time Careers

John: Okay, nonclinical nation, many of you are ready to make a change in your professional life. It may be because you're frustrated and your work-life balance is shot, or maybe it's just because you're ready to level up.

What do I mean by leveling up? Well, leveling up can be described as a process of self-development or to become a better version of yourself. This can include identifying weaknesses and strengths, setting goals, replacing old habits with new habits, focus on success, and possibly moving to a career that's more satisfying and financially rewarding.

As I was thinking about this concept, I was trying to get examples, and I have two examples that really come to mind.

The first one is professional athletes. Some professional athletes are forced to retire. Some just reach their peak and decide after they've done everything they want to do, they just retire, but they have a lot of notoriety and they have hopefully saved up some money. And again, it's kind of parallel to what physicians can do.

I think of examples like those of Magic Johnson's business ventures in broadcasting, music, film, and finance, or John Elway's investments in dealerships in the Denver area that he said later sold off, and then him investing in the Colorado Crush of the Arena Football League in 2002. And of course, many successful athletes have finished their careers as athletes, and then leveled up to do something else very powerful.

Now, those might seem like outliers. Maybe those are just a select few, but I also think of attorneys. There are many attorneys who never practice, or let's say they finish law school, they pass their bar, and they do work for a while in the industry, in law, doing something, but then they find that they can take everything they've learned in law school and with their early experiences as an attorney and segue into another career, which they level up.

You can look around and see a lot of attorneys working in C suite of various companies, not actually practicing law, but applying what they learned as leaders, as researchers, as presenters, and they apply to the new job. You're an attorney and you have a background in healthcare law, well, you can do that with a big firm, or you can actually go and become part of a team to run a healthcare organization, and obviously all those skills will come in handy.

I interviewed somebody who was trained as an attorney. He, for a little while, was helping physicians with their contract negotiations as an attorney. What he did was leverage that to become more of an agent. He helps physicians negotiate better contracts as an agent, but not as an attorney. In fact, he still has attorneys review the contracts. That's a way to level up.

I think the physicians can do the same thing. Healthcare is the largest industry in the United States, and there are positions for physicians in every major aspect of healthcare. Maybe it's natural to think after a few years of being in the trenches and seeing patients, at some point it gets old, and now you look for the next challenge, and that's what we call leveling up.

And so, I want to talk about three of the positions that you should consider, particularly if you're in a big hurry. Now, you can spend six, 12, 18 months researching all of the possible nonclinical careers out there, but if you're looking for a particular type of career that I'll mention in a minute, then maybe you should select from one of the three most commonly pursued careers and go from there, and that's what I'm going to talk about today, the pros, the cons, some of the tactics for doing this, and so forth. They definitely provide a better lifestyle, and they pay well, and so I thought I would focus on those today.

Those careers are those of a chief medical officer at a hospital or health system, medical science liaison, or UM medical director. Now, they're all full-time jobs. We're not going to mess around with starting a new business or getting a part-time job and then segwaying to maybe looking for two or three different part-time jobs that you can patch together like I've talked about before, but these are full-time jobs. They involve employment with a large organization. They have a lot of the usual benefits that only large organizations provide, and they're really seen by physicians as very, very viable options. And so, I thought, "Well, if I can provide examples of these three and tell you a little bit about each of them, maybe that can kind of jumpstart your process of leveling up."

All right, I have definitely interviewed multiple physicians doing all of these jobs. I personally have been a chief medical officer, know many other chief medical officers and other senior executives in hospitals that are physicians. I've interviewed many medical science liaisons, which represents the pharma industry. And then the third is, again, one of the most common, and maybe somewhat underappreciated, and that's being a medical director for a health insurance company, or you might call them a healthcare payer, one of the big ones. That's what I want to talk about today.

Let's talk about the chief medical officer first. What about that? How do we do that? And one of the things that comes up, because maybe I'm comparing these three directly, and it's a little bit, I wouldn't say disingenuous, but it's not correct to, let's say, talk about a new MSL and someone who's becoming a new CMO. CMO is a pretty high-level position. Now, I was going to talk about medical directors in the hospital setting, and it is the stepping stone to becoming a CMO. Both those jobs pay well, they have great benefits, and the lifestyle is much better than, let's say, a practicing physician as an anesthesiologist or an ER doctor in the hospital.

But most medical directors that work in the hospital setting are medical directors for a service line, which means they're usually practicing at least half-time as well. I wouldn't want to call that medical director position as a full-time position. Now, there are some full-time medical director positions. If you're in a large enough hospital and you can be a medical director for quality improvement or for informatics or for utilization management or, let's say, even coding and documentation, those can all be full-time jobs. They can pay well. You can replace your clinical salary for sure. And they do serve as a stepping stone, though, to the ultimate hospital environment job, which would be that of a chief medical officer or one of the other senior positions like chief medical information officer or chief quality officer, something like that.

Now, as far as getting from your medical director role up to the CMO role, which is that last step before, but you could eventually become a COO or even a CEO of a hospital. But in focusing on the CMO role, you're going to do some of these things that we will talk about with all three positions, really.

Maybe a little different here. You might want to get an executive coach or mentor. You definitely want to join LinkedIn because you're going to do a lot of your networking and looking for jobs on LinkedIn if you don't have a way to segue up to the current institution where you're already working.

One of the resources is the AAPL, which is the American Association for Physician Leadership, which is at physicianleaders.org. They have a bunch of books. There's a bunch of other books you can look at for healthcare finances and leadership and so forth.

And the question with that job is, "Does it require relocation?" If you're in a large metropolitan area, there's probably multiple systems where you could look for a job, but it's not uncommon to be able to work your way up an institution's hierarchy, work as a medical director, take on more responsibility over time while you gradually decrease your practice. And ultimately, while you might keep your license, you reach a point where you really don't need a license.

I would maintain it only because sometimes when you're looking to change to a CMO role at another organization, they want you to have the license. I think sometimes that's because they might be using your license for some things, having to do with the pharmacy or covering for ordering drugs for different units. But ultimately, you won't really need to have that license because you're no longer seeing patients. Although as a CMO, you can continue to see patients once a week or every other week or so if you want to continue to do that.

But it's one of those jobs that you should think of right off the bat if you're in a position that enables you to pursue that kind of job. It's not right for everybody. If you're a dermatologist working in an outpatient setting or if you've never had privileges at a hospital, it makes it difficult to start that job search from nothing as opposed to being one of these people in the hospital that are there all the time, the emergency physicians, anesthesiologists and various surgeons and so forth. Geriatricians and hospitalists are typical, very common to move up that path. So that's the first one.

With that, I think I'll move on to the next one, which is medical science liaison. We've talked about this before. It's a very common and attractive position. It really doesn't require any special background. I think it's helpful if you have experience in working with particular drugs or drug classes. It's kind of whatever's popular at the time. Oncologists typically can get into pharma very easily. They'll often go into more of the clinical research side of things, but as an oncologist, it would be very easy to become an MSL, but also pretty much anyone who's using certain drugs and classes of drugs, whether it's cardiology, even gynecologists and family physicians, internists for sure. There's a big push in GI drugs lately. So if you were doing GI work and wanted to transition to this role, it'd probably be fairly easily.

And there are even positions for people that don't have a residency and haven't been in practice, but we're really focusing on those who have been in practice and want to level up to something new with a better lifestyle, but actually paying equal to or more in the long run than what you're doing now. And as I said, we're going to focus on some of those drugs to help convince our new employer.

As far as resources to try and move into this role, you want to commiserate with others that are doing it, you want to go on LinkedIn, you want to have a great profile. This applies to all three. Great LinkedIn profile, networking on LinkedIn, engage with peers. You can join the MSL Society, which the link there is themsls.org. They have a lot in there for people who are already medical science liaisons, but you can imagine just taking a few entry-level courses and reading about becoming an MSL and being an MSL and exceeding and excelling as an MSL would be very helpful. And in addition, you'll learn the language that they speak.

And when you're doing interviews and submitting your resume, you want to sprinkle those and your LinkedIn profile with the vernacular that's not used outside of the pharma industry. And some of it's not even used by anyone other than medical science liaisons. I do also mention the Contract Research Organization, CRO, because you can work directly for a pharmaceutical company as an MSL, but a lot of MSLs work for contract research organizations.

A CRO has different names, it could be the Contract Research Organization, it could be Contract Resource Organization, but they provide resources to pharma companies for those things that they don't want to keep hiring for. And sometimes it's MSLs, it can be other things, it could be the components that actually provide the studies, that monitor the studies and so forth.

You oftentimes will find that CROs are hiring medical science liaisons a little quicker than the pharmaceutical companies go. And all of these things are dependent on what is going on in the industry, how much demand there is based on what new drugs are being released by various companies. And it's at that point of release that MSLs get heavily involved. It's an educational role, it's not a marketing or sales role.

I remember once talking to a guest who's a pediatrician and she didn't think there was any way she could be employed by a pharma company, but because of all the experience she had with vaccines, they happened to be looking for somebody that had that experience and she was able to get a job. And I think initially she was employed by a CRO and then later moved up to a full-time position either with the CRO or with the pharma company itself. That's the second one I wanted to mention today. Don't forget to look at the MSL Society to get some ideas on how to approach that goal.

The last one I want to talk about today, again, one of the big three, is working as a medical director for a utilization management company, working for a large payer. Again, that doesn't require any special background. If you've done chart reviews before in the hospital setting, particularly maybe you've been a physician advisor for UM in the hospital, that might help. All the big insurance companies hire these people, but they also sometimes farm this out to something called an IRO, which is an independent review organization.

And so, many people when they're starting out and becoming a UM or a benefits management medical director, they'll apply at an IRO first and they'll find a job part-time. This is the one that's a little easier to do, kind of the pilots where you're still doing your old job. You're doing some part-time chart reviews for an IRO and then some IROs will hire you full-time.

One of my colleagues really, he hasn't been a guest on the podcast yet. I'm probably going to have him on someday, but he was a surgeon and he just wanted to spend more time with his kids. And he thought, "Well, I don't know. I make a fair amount of money as a surgeon but I'm not having any time with my kids. I'm not spending enough time with my kids. They're growing up, I'm missing on that." And he said, "I'm going to level up to one of these different careers." And so, he did start working as a medical director for an independent review organization and he actually really enjoys it. In addition to doing general sort of chart review work, he's also serving as a resource for those surgical cases. So you can always get that. Even if you're a specialist, sometimes they have special roles for you. One of my other guests or the other one that was a guest as opposed to this first example, he was an invasive cardiologist for pediatrics.

And yeah, he's been working at a health system or a health insurer rather for gosh, at least five or six years now since I interviewed him. And he's very happy and he actually helps other people do that. The resources for that, besides looking around for IROs, if you want a list of some of the IROs, they're basically the ones that are certified. You can go to NAIRO, which is the National Association of IROs at nairo.org/members. You'll get a list of all the NAIRO members and you can go look at their websites to see if they're hiring the type of medical director that you might be looking at. And again, these can be for part-time positions to get you started, to get you exposed.

You can also go to Facebook and look for the Remote Careers for Physicians Facebook group. It's got at least 10,000 members now. It's pretty big group. And everybody in there is kind of talking about working as a payer or a health insurer UM medical director and other associated types of positions.

All the big insurance companies definitely will hire these people as well. Whether we're talking about Cigna or Centene or several others, any of the big ones, they all have them. But they also outsource some of the work to the IROs. Again, I will remind you that for all these positions, it's important to be on LinkedIn. It's important to have a complete profile. It's important to use LinkedIn and sometimes Doximity to locate your colleagues and network with them. See if some of them are already doing one of these jobs.

Like I said, maybe it's time to level up and this is how you can get started. And if one of these three positions sounds right for you, then you can just jump in now and start working on it and see what you think.

The other thing I would say is besides what I've already mentioned in terms of the benefits is they have great benefit packages in most of these places. You've got health insurance, disability insurance, retirement plans, four to six weeks of paid time off. And some of them will even give physicians deferred compensation benefits. So that can be nice for your retirement planning.

Well, I guess that's it for today's discussion. Thousands of physicians literally just in the last few years have found happiness in each of these three careers. They all offer full-time salaries, generally good benefits, and there are resources that can help you get started. Just check out those resources and get going. And if you have any questions, you can always contact me.

If you want to access everything that I've talked about today easily, you can go to the show notes. You'll also get a link to the podcast episode. You'll get related links, several related links actually and the transcript. And you can find all that at nonclinicalphysicians.com/popular-full-time-careers.

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The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post First Consider The Most Popular Full-Time Careers appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

]]> https://nonclinicalphysicians.com/popular-full-time-careers/feed/ 0 35460 How To Secure Your First Utilization Management Job https://nonclinicalphysicians.com/first-utilization-management-job/ https://nonclinicalphysicians.com/first-utilization-management-job/#respond Tue, 26 Mar 2024 13:44:59 +0000 https://nonclinicalphysicians.com/?p=23687   Interview with Dr. Jonathan Vitale - 345 In today's episode, we present Dr. Jonathan Vitale's inspirational masterclass on securing your first utilization management job from the 2023 Nonclinical Career Summit. Dr. Vitale shares his journey, emphasizing the appeal of UM's remote nature, stable hours, and reduced stress compared to traditional clinical practice. [...]

The post How To Secure Your First Utilization Management Job appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

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Interview with Dr. Jonathan Vitale – 345

In today's episode, we present Dr. Jonathan Vitale's inspirational masterclass on securing your first utilization management job from the 2023 Nonclinical Career Summit.

Dr. Vitale shares his journey, emphasizing the appeal of UM's remote nature, stable hours, and reduced stress compared to traditional clinical practice.

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The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

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Our Episode Sponsor

Dr. Debra Blaine is a physician like many of you, and her greatest challenge was fear. The whole concept of leaving clinical medicine was terrifying. But she is so much happier now as a professional writer and a coach. According to Debra, “It’s like someone turned the oxygen back on.”

If fear is part of your struggle, too, she would like to help you push through those emotional barriers to go after the life you really want. Click this link to schedule a free chat.

Or check out her website at allthingswriting.com/resilience-coaching.

Dr. Jonathan Vitale's First Utilization Management Job

Dr. Vitale shares his journey from traditional family medicine to becoming a manager of utilization management physicians, highlighting the pivotal moments in this nonclinical career path. He discusses how his early exposure to utilization management, driven by family experiences with insurance rejections, sparked his curiosity and ultimately guided his transition from clinical practice to a leadership role in UM.

Through anecdotes and reflections on his career trajectory, Dr. Vitale provides a compelling narrative that inspires physicians to explore alternative paths.

Navigating Utilization Management: Roles, Compensation, and Application Process

Delving into utilization management (UM) careers, Jonathan provides a comprehensive overview of its definition, functions, and significance within healthcare organizations. He lists the primary goals of UM, emphasizing its role in ensuring the appropriateness, efficiency, and cost-effectiveness of healthcare services while minimizing potential harm to patients.

By delineating the three main categories of UM companies and elucidating the key responsibilities associated with each, Dr. Vitale equips aspiring UM professionals with a foundational understanding essential for navigating this dynamic field.

Jonathan's Advice on Overcoming Fear of Rejection

Apply, apply, apply. The clients that I work with, one of the biggest hurdles we have to get over is they fear rejection so much. I say, ‘My gosh, I was rejected hundreds of times. I didn't even get to rejected status. I was just ghosted. My application would just go into the big dark oasis and nothing ever happened.' And I just got over it. And after a while I started celebrating rejections because every rejection is one step closer to an acceptance.

Summary

In his insightful discussion, Dr. Jonathan Vitale shared his journey from family medicine to managing UM physicians, highlighting the appeal of remote work, balanced hours, and reduced stress in UM roles. Dr. Vitale also offered practical advice on gaining UM experience, building CVs, and navigating the application process.

You can contact him through his email drjonathan@drjonathan.com, or check his website drjonathan.com. He also encouraged joining the supportive community of Remote Careers for Physicians on Facebook.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 345

How to Secure Your First Utilization Management Job

- Presentation by Dr. Jonathan Vitale

Dr. Jonathan Vitale: I'm going to talk about myself a little bit and how I got to what I do today, and then I'm going to talk about what is UM or utilization management. I'll talk about the types of UM, the day-to-day of a UM doctor, then the compensation, which everybody is very interested in, the application process, how to get experience so that you can apply, how to build your CV, how to get appropriate coaching if you need that. And then I'm happy to answer any questions.

Again, I'm Dr. Jonathan Vitale. I am a board certified family physician. I had a pretty traditional journey to being a family physician, and today I'm a manager of utilization management physicians at one of the top health insurance companies in the country.

I'll tell you a little bit about my journey and how I got there. I had a pretty typical path to becoming a family doctor, except I picked up a master's in counseling before medical school. And after medical school I did residency in Chicago and family medicine, and then I moved to New York City where I live now for my first attending job at kind of a concierge clinic that I thought I would enjoy because I really did not like the traditional doctor's schedule, the traditional working nights and weekends, working a lot.

And after doing that for really just a few years, I decided that I needed to transition. I was very fortunate and one of the very fortunate people to have heard about UM very early on. I actually knew about it when I was in high school because my brother has type one diabetes, and my parents would always be getting rejections from the insurance companies. And I always wondered why, and I would ask my mother, and she would tell me that they had doctors working at insurance companies making decisions.

I'm one of the very lucky people who knew about UM, and was intrigued by it very early on, although that's probably only about 1% of UM docs who knew what it was before they became burnt out.

But another thing I wanted to say is welcome to everybody to this amazing community. The community of nonclinical, or as I call us non-traditional physicians. It is a very, very warm community. It's a very welcoming community, and it's a community of people who really want to help you transition into a job that you love.

What I've kind of came to the realization of early in my medical career was that doctors in general, from day one of saying you're a pre-med, day one of deciding your pre-med, you are overworked, you are underappreciated, you are underpaid. And that continues for the 10 or 15 years it takes you from day one of pre-med to becoming an attending. And I think that what happens is a lot of people just become very used to being treated that way. That's why so many doctors do so much extra work for free. Name another profession where you work extra hours and aren't paid for it, or you're doing your charts at night, not paid for it, or on weekends not paid for it or taking call nights and weekends, not paid for it.

And I never understood that, and it always bothered me immensely because I think physicians are amazing. We have so much to offer and we should be fairly compensated and respected for that. And that was one of the things that got me into wanting to transition. And also my background as a counselor is really what got me interested in and after I got there coaching other physicians on how they too can get there.

What I do today in addition to my utilization management job is I also coach physicians. Specifically I help people get remote careers, mostly in UM, but I do know about other fields as well. You can always reach me at drjonathan.com or email me at drjonathan@drjonathan.com, or please, as John mentioned, join our Facebook group of Remote Careers for Physicians, which is a wonderful community of physicians helping out physicians who are interested in remote careers.

I always joke that I was into remote careers before being in a remote career was cool. I started that remote careers Facebook group in 2018, and since the pandemic, it's exploded. Nowadays everybody wants a remote career, it seems like, and I think it's as best of a time as any to transition into this field. But I'm especially going to be talking about tonight utilization management.

So, what is utilization management? It's also called utilization review. But for tonight, we're going to call it UM or utilization management. The best definition I could find is it's a systematic approach used by healthcare organizations, insurance companies, and other stakeholders to evaluate and manage the appropriateness, efficiency and cost effectiveness of healthcare services.

The primary goal of UM is to ensure that patients receive the right care at the right time in the right setting, while minimizing unnecessary treatment costs and potential harm. Another way I think about it is we reduce fraud, waste, and abuse. Probably mostly waste. Probably 80% of what we deal with are waste, wasteful orders, or wasteful requests, et cetera, which we'll talk more about later.

There's really three main buckets of UM companies, and I always like to be very general about how I describe this. And then we'll move down into some specifics. There's private UM companies. These are those third party companies that I always talk about, which are good companies to try to get experience with. Those are superfluous. Many of them are listed in nairo.org, which we'll talk about later. Then there's healthcare systems or hospital systems, which also hire UM nurses and UM doctors.

And then probably the most common for full-time docs would be insurance companies. Insurance companies also hire their own UM nurses, their own UM doctors, their own UM physical therapists, pharmacists, et cetera. And these are the big names you've all heard of. This is your Aetnas, your Humanas, your Uniteds, your Anthems, your Kaisers. They all hire their own UM clinicians to work for them.

And what you do in UM is usually one of three things. There's prior authorizations. Everybody has heard about a prior auth. Everybody knows what a prior auth is. There's certainly a lot of attention in the news nowadays around prior auths and reducing the paperwork associated with prior authorizations. But there's a lot of UM that goes along with that.

A physician orders a test, a study, a medication, a home health service, which I'm involved with. And the prior auth physician determines whether or not that meets certain criteria, and most importantly, whether or not it is medically necessary. That's prior auth. And there's also concurrent reviews. This is very common in the hospital setting. When we're talking about bed days and how long a patient can stay in a hospital, how is this patient doing day to day? They're checking in to see if they can extend and give them more days or if they're suitable to go home or go to rehab or go to a different level of care. That's called concurrent reviews.

And then the final one is probably the smallest, and those are retrospective reviews. Those are done when the service has already been provided, already been rendered, and now they're reviewing it on the backend to see if it was medically necessary and if it fit the guidelines.

The reason why a lot of people go into UM is really primarily I would say what attracts people is the lifestyle, meaning it's typically remote. It's typically 40 hours a week when you're in a full-time gig. It's a typically salaried position. Typically, not always. Also, you have very low liability. Basically, you're not practicing medicine. You don't need malpractice insurance, you carry errors in emissions insurance. It's interesting work. It's a very comfortable pace and you're not patient facing. It's a much lower, lower stress job. And you have typically, generally speaking, nights and weekends off and holidays off.

In terms of compensation, and this is a very hot topic. I'm asked this all the time. There's really not good national average data. I will tell you what I see because I look at hundreds of positions for UM all the time. And I would say there's a very big range. I'm sorry I can't be more specific, but generally if you're a full-time UM physician and you're in one of the primary care areas, you're typically talking about the lower to mid $200,000 range as a W2 base salary. I've seen it all the way up to $300,000, maybe a little bit more for people like an oncologist or people with very, very high demand skills.

But keep in mind, in addition to that, first of all, that's 40 hours a week, but in addition to that base salary, we're also talking about merit increases, which typically happen every year on the order of usually around 2% to 3%, but it can be more than that. In addition to that, you're talking about quarterly or annual bonuses, and you're also talking about usually a stock gift if you work at a large insurance company as I do.

There's a lot of additional compensation that's also very attractive. So, always keep that in mind. I always like people to keep that in mind when they're saying, "Hey, but I make all so much more money than that." I say, "Yeah, but you probably work 80 hours a week and are a hundred times more stressed." So, keep that in mind.

Some other things I wanted to talk about is basically the process of what your typical day looks like when you're doing most UM. And I'm going to talk about full-time jobs, and then we'll talk about the gigs. The full-time jobs, which are kind of the cream of the crop of UM, which are those very, very highly desired 40 hour a week full-time jobs, which are very competitive, is you typically have a set number of cases that you're reviewing per day. You're not chained to your desk. It's not like it is in most clinical practices where every second of your time is scheduled and monitored and you need to be patient facing in order to bill. No, you typically have a set number of cases that you're attempting to get through. Sometimes there's peer-to-peers involved as well. And sometimes you have a few meetings and things like that when you're at the basic medical director level. Medical director is entry level for utilization management.

And then there are also opportunities to grow, kind of like Marie was talking about at MSL. There's some opportunities to grow into more of a team lead and manage a team. And then there's opportunities for being a manager and managing a larger team, which that's what I do. I manage a large team of UM physicians and I also hire them and interview them.

And then there is also the opportunity to branch out into other fields in health insurance companies, which other people are talking about in their lectures tonight. I won't get too much into that.

Something I do want to talk about is some of the other gigs in utilization management. There are small companies, usually these third party companies that exist and they do certain reviews. They may be doing reviews for a certain procedure, they may be doing reviews for a certain medication. And what they'll do is they'll have a panel of doctors of 1099 or independent contractor physicians who they will reach out to and say, "Hey, we have this request for this medication. Can you review it for us? And we'll pay you X number of dollars." It's usually very low, by the way. It's usually like $20, $30. And those companies exist and they are superfluous.

And a lot of physicians look at that and say, "I'm not doing that." And I say, "You don't understand. You have to do that. You do that to get experience. You don't do that to make money. You do it as a side gig while you're still in your other clinical job so that you can get some experience under your belt in doing UM so that you can put that on your CV." And that's why you do those roles for six to 12 months so that you can actually have some experience to talk about when you apply for those big full-time positions.

Now, how do you get these gigs? It's pretty simple. I talk about it all the time on Remote Careers. You just go to nairo.org, the National Association of Independent Review Organization. You click on members, again, you don't become a member, you click on members and you scroll all the way down and it lists the logos of 20 or 30 of these companies.

You go to every one of those individual company websites and you navigate the website and you click on apply to be on the physician panel, and you submit your CV to every one of them. And I guarantee you, at least two or three of them will contact you within the week and put you on their panel. And that means you are now getting UM experience. That's a great way to get you UM experience. Yes, it does take a lot of time to sign up for all of them. I never said it would be easy. And it's a great way to get your first step in the door.

I always say this. My specialty is helping doctors who have no other experience, no outside experience. Normal, average doctors. I guess no doctor is average. We're all awesome. But I would say regular doctors into the world of UM who have no prior or outside experience. No connections, nothing else. That's what I help people to do because that's how I got involved.

After you have that, the next thing that you need to do after you've done that for six or 12 months, that's when you're able to actually apply to these full-time UM gigs that most people want. Like every other non-traditional job, especially nowadays, it is very competitive. However, what I can say, and I think this is really, really important, that it's not that it's super, super competitive, which it is, but it's more so the fact that doctors are used to it being ridiculously easy to get a job. If you're a regular traditional outpatient family doctor, been working at your clinic for 10 years, and now you want to move to a different city next week, and you want a job there, all you have to do is send out an email with your CV to a couple people, and you'll probably get a hundred job offers the same week.

That's how it is for clinical doctors. We're very spoiled. But that is not how it is when you make the transition. And that's something that you really have to psychologically get behind and understand that for many people it's going to take a year, sometimes two years, to actually make that transition to get enough applications in to get rejected enough. As you always hear me on Facebook, for those who follow me, I always say to people, you haven't been rejected enough yet. That's your main problem. It takes a lot of rejection, a lot of getting ghosted before you get your position. But you will get there. Don't worry, you will get there. It's just a process.

The thing that you also want to do is you want to work on your CV, and there's lots of coaches to help you with this. I'm one of them, but there's certainly many other coaches who can help you with this, many of whom you're hearing about these past three nights. And you also want to work very hard on your interview skills, and coaches can help you with that. I can certainly help as can all the other coaches.

And what you want to do is you want to make it your job to every day apply and send in your CV to openings for utilization management. These are typically listed. I like to keep things simple. They're typically listed on Indeed, on LinkedIn and also on the private insurance company's websites.

What I encourage people to do who are interested in a life of UM is every single day, it only probably takes about an hour out of your day, you want to be visiting every one of those websites, and you want to be searching, you want to save this in search, you want to be searching for medical director utilization review, utilization management, utilization review, physician, physician reviewer, MD reviewer. All those synonymous terms that a lot of companies use. And then you want to be looking for those positions and you want to be submitting your CV.

Yes, absolutely. Networking is great. If you can do that, if you have any contacts, if you network through LinkedIn, if you network through one of these conferences through a SEEK conference for anything like that, that's wonderful. But what I can tell you is that in the UM world, things move very quickly and that works both in your favor and against your favor.

Let me be more specific about timing. I always talk about when I first got into UM about how I applied for a year and got rejected probably over a thousand times. At least hundreds and hundreds of times I was rejected or ghosted. And what I've learned now that I'm a hiring manager for UM is that timing is everything.

Let me be more specific on that. Many times these UM companies, especially the insurance companies, which are the largest employer of UM docs, are always trying to get more business. They're always trying to get more contracts. They're always trying to expand their geography. They're always trying to do UM for another network, for another geographic location. They have business folks who that's all they do is try to broaden their business.

And as you guys know, anybody who's worked in business, business is a tough field. Things move very fast and sometimes very unexpected. You can literally be at a job or I can literally be in a position and I can literally hear one day, "Hey, you know what? We finally got that contract we've been after for eight months or 12 months. Now we have a need for five other doctors on your team, as we call them FTEs, full-time equivalents, five FTEs on your team. And you need to get them up and trained and ready to go as soon as humanly possible because we're going to start getting UM cases from that network in three months. And we got to be ready to go."

This is the kind of thing that happens. So, what am I doing? We're posting it on our website. And the first good CV I get who is board certified, who's got some decent experience, I am scheduling them for an interview. But let me tell you what though. That same candidate, if they applied two weeks before, they probably would've gotten either ghosted or rejected. Again, I don't write the rules, ladies and gentlemen, I'm just telling you what they are.

The HR oasis for these big companies is don't assume that they're going to put your CV on hold. Don't assume that every job listed currently is available. That's another one. Don't assume that you're going to even hear back. That's why my best advice is it's a numbers game. When the new positions come up, is why you have to be checking every single day. You need to be applying for that new position, because that happens all the time in UM. And which is good news for people like us, because it means there are definitely jobs that open up and that need good folks.

But the flip side of that though is let's say that you have 20 years of UM experience, 20 years of clinical experience, and you're the most competent UM doc in the world, and you reach out to me and send me your CV today. I'd say "I can't do anything with this but thank you." Because we don't have any openings, I'd say just keep monitoring our website. That's how it works at a lot of the large health insurance companies. Yes, there's other things that happen at smaller companies where they may keep things on hold, but I'm just telling you how it works at the large health insurance companies. That's why I always say to people, and you see me say this on Facebook and everywhere else. Apply, apply, apply.

The clients that I work with, one of the biggest hurdles we have to get over is they fear rejection so much. I say, "My gosh, I was rejected hundreds of times. I didn't even get to rejected status. I was just ghosted. My application would just go into the big dark oasis and nothing ever happened." And I just got over it. And after a while I started celebrating rejections because every rejection is one step closer to an acceptance. And these jobs, especially UM jobs, as Marie was talking about MSL jobs, they're very competitive. There's more docs than ever that are looking to make a transition. The other thing is doctors are looking to make a transition earlier and earlier in their careers.

My team, I would say on a whole, at this point, we have about 25 docs on my team. And we are all stages of our career. There's people who are in their early career, mid-career, late career. There's people who are post-retirement who just do this for fun. If that tells you anything about the job as well.

So, it is difficult to get a position, but it's definitely not impossible. It just takes persistence and there's so many people who are there to help you.

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