Interview with Lane Kawaoka – Episode 433
In today's interview, John interviews Lane Kawaoka, an engineer who pivoted to real estate investing, about his “wealth elevator.”
He shows how high-income professionals can step away from purely Wall Street-based plans and start using real estate, tax strategies, and vetted operators to accelerate wealth-building.
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Climbing the Wealth Elevator
Kawaoka describes starting with simple 20% down rental houses while working full-time as an engineer. He then expanded into out-of-state properties in cash-flow markets before realizing that managing many small units created more complexity than freedom.
That realization pushed him into the “wealth elevator” model he now teaches: early stages focused on building net worth through rentals, then a shift into larger private placements and syndications once accredited investor status is reached. At higher “floors,” investors rely more on curated deals, stronger sponsors, and diversified income streams instead of trying to manage everything on the side.
Tax-Focused Investing Strategies
A major theme of Kawaoka’s approach is using the tax code intentionally rather than accepting generic advice built around 401(k)s and basic retirement plans. He explains how bonus depreciation from real estate can shelter passive income, when real estate professional status might allow a household to offset active income, and why some investors also look at oil and gas projects for their intangible drilling cost deductions.
He emphasizes that not every strategy is right for every investor. However, physicians and other high earners should at least know these options exist, and ask better questions of their advisors. And they should avoid jumping into operationally intense models like short-term rentals or residential assisted living, without business experience and strong operators.
Summary
Listeners can learn more and request Lane's book The Wealth Elevator at thewealthelevator.com, email team@thewealthelevator.com for a free PDF and audiobook, or contact him directly at lane@thewealthelevator.com.
NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.
Links for Today's Episode:
- Lane Kawaoka's Website
- The Wealth Elevator Club
- Lane Kawaoka's Book, The Wealth Elevator: real estate syndications, accredited investor banking, and tax strategies for first-gen millionaires (this is an Amazon affiliate link*)
- Choose the Right Syndication Opportunities to Achieve Financial Freedom
- The Best Real Estate Investment For Today’s Physicians – Part 1
- The Best Real Estate Investment For Today’s Physicians – Part 2
- Revisiting How to Use Real Estate Investing to Go from Burnout to Financial Freedom – 307
- How to Pursue a Nonclinical Career in Hospital Management – 080
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Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.
Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton
Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 433
Why Real Estate Syndications are an Awesome Wealth Elevator
- Interview with Mr. Lane Kawaoka
John: Today’s guest has been deeply involved with real estate investing for years. And he’s written some books on the subject, the most recent of which is called, "The Wealth Elevator: Real Estate Syndications", "Accredited Investor Banking", and "Tax Strategies for First-Gen Millionaires". So I’m really anxious to meet our guest and pick his brain for the next 25 or 30 minutes. Lane Kawaoka, welcome to the podcast.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, thanks for having me. Aloha, everybody.
John: Aloha. You’re in the… Hawaii, I guess.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yep, yep. Hawaii. I used to live in Seattle in the rain and cold there, but, you know, with the passive investing or real estate, you know, you’re able to work where you want and, you know, live where you want, but, you know, kind of live a lifestyle that, you know, where you’re kind of unbound. So I like the weather here, and, you know, now we kind of invest a lot remotely in the best places in the country. So it kind of allows me to kind of, you know, live where I want.
John: That’s cool. Yeah. Why not live in paradise there if you can, right? Tell us a little bit about your background. Just a short version of— you didn’t start out as an investor, I guess, like most investors don’t start that way. So tell us how you got started after your initial profession.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. So I graduated college in 2007. I was not a very good student, maybe made a 3.01. But I was good at math and science, so I became an engineer, right? Cause I was also super lazy. So I didn’t want to go for, you know, grad school, doctorates— not that I was that smart anyway— but, you know, I wanted to get paid the least amount of college education to get the highest amount of pay. So if you core that, those are all your engineering degrees.
So that’s what I did. I started to work as a construction supervisor for the railroad back in 2007. I made a good salary, but I think the reason why a lot of engineers become investors— real estate investors especially— is because we don’t make multiple six figures, right? We typically top out at about 250 as a manager.
But I was still really good at my finances, able to save $20,000, $30,000 a year in my early twenties. And I followed all the dogma that we’re all taught to do: invest in the 401K, buy a house to live in. I eventually bought a house. And because I was owning a home on Saturdays— because I was traveling all over for work, mobile construction sites was kind of what I was doing— I decided to rent it out on a whim.
And that was kind of where I got into this world of passive real estate investing on the side, and bought another duplex in Seattle in 2012–13. And then by 2015, I had sort of gone bonkers and bought 11 properties out of state— you know, a lot of these Birmingham, Atlanta, Indianapolis— more for cashflow.
But, you know, I’ll kind of pause there, but that was kind of where I hit a precipice of accredited investor status, which I know a lot of the listeners out there— net worth million or greater or make over $200,000. And I started to uncover a lot of other accredited investors that kind of trade in their little rental properties or skip over that step and go straight into private placements and syndications as a passive investor.
John: Well, let’s just pause it, like you said, for a minute. And it must’ve been difficult to be managing those real estate investments from a distance. I suppose you have local managers or something. How did that work?
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, mind you, the investing that I used to do back in the day was, you know, not wholesaling or flipping. Like, to me, that’s all you do in real estate when you don’t have too much money. I had a good-paying job, was pretty busy at my professional job. I thought it was going to be my thing, so I was actually working really hard to try and get promotions at that time.
But, you know, at that point I was just doing 20% down payments and kind of plugging along that way to pick up more and more properties. But part of the strategy was just getting a professional property manager to kind of do my dirty work for me. And most importantly, you know, they pay them 10% of the rents. It is what it is, but it allowed me to focus on my highest and best use.
So, you know, whether you’re a dentist, doctor, engineer— like my hourly rate was much higher than messing around flipping houses on the side. And then, from a legal liability standpoint, you know, it was always nice to have that third-party intermediary there that has insurance on top of that. But, you know, still, as a landlord, you know, rental properties are a little bit dirty in terms of liability. Even if you, you know, put it in LLCs and entities, you know, it’s definitely not as clean as being a passive investor in a larger syndication deal.
John: Yeah, absolutely. Well, okay, let’s move on, but let’s keep in mind the fact that my audience is mostly physicians, and if they’re doing things properly— even if they’re working full-time heavily as a physician— if they’re smart, they’re putting a lot of money away because they’re going to get burned out eventually, and they’re going to want to try something else. And a lot of them look at this.
So you got into syndications, but tell us what you discovered that would be right up the alley of most physicians starting in real estate.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. I mean, we have an entire course about doing due diligence in looking at the right deals, as opposed to getting these daisy-chain deals that are kind of thrown around there. A lot of doctor communities have these types of things out there.
And then also, you know, being able to decipher: is this a sucker deal or not? Right? Like, we’re not going to— I mean, we can go into this podcast in that way, but, you know, a lot of my clients who are doctors, a lot of the low-hanging fruit is more on the tax side.
Right? So, you know, I think people hear about Roth IRAs, 401Ks, maybe even solo 401Ks as strategies, paying your kids, right? Like, to me, this is all very small-potatoes types of tax strategies. And a lot of those strategies— like the 401K— are just deferring your income into the future. You’re going to have to pay that at some point.
And, you know, for a variety of reasons, the tax rates are probably going to be higher in the future.
John: Right.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: And so, you know, the idea is, you know, using the real estate where you get depreciation from the asset to lower your other passive income that you may have. Now, some investors that are doctors may have a situation where their spouse doesn’t work and watches the kids, and they may be able to employ real estate professional status and be able to enact different tax strategies where they use some of these losses to offset their other income that they have.
Of course, not giving any tax or legal advice here, right? But this is stuff that we see all the time. And if people need a referral to a professional, you know, to kind of work this on your own personal situation, you know, let me know. But I always think that’s important for people to be empowered and know at least what to ask their CPA, because most people out there just have standard CPAs that just want to do the standard way and do it the easy way.
Unless you know something to push them, you know, they don’t really do it, right? You know, it’s unfortunate. It’s not like the doctors out there who, you know, want to heal the patient the best way they possibly can. I know that you guys have insurance red tape in there and everything, but in other industries, you know— especially when it’s not life and death— you know, people just do things the easy way, right?
So it’s important to kind of push and lean on your vendors. And part of that is being empowered. So part of that just is knowing that these are options that you have.
And, you know, but some people— they’ll get, they’ll do maybe a short-term rental. I am not a huge fan of that. You know, we can chat about your own situation if that makes sense. But, you know, for most people, that’s a lot of legal liability, a lot of headache. So I’m not a huge fan of the short-term rental strategy and buying short-term rentals and doing it that way.
What I would say is, before we go down that road, for a lot of folks who are doctors, right, in this client profile— what I would say check first is just simply going into real estate deals and getting more passive income, because you can offset that with a natural depreciation. And today, 100% bonus depreciation laws to offset that income.
Another option that people have done in the past is land conservation easements. People may want to Google that. And I say that this is not really a viable strategy today, but I just say that to open people’s horizons, right?
Especially with ChatGPT today, people are able to, you know, learn about the stuff and query AI and really get— you know, understand that these options are out there. Again, not a viable strategy, right? We’ve kind of moved away from it as a community because of audit risks and other factors.
But, you know, another option would be investing in oil and gas, right? Put that into your AI, right? You get a lot of good tax benefits to offset ordinary income in those situations. And that has the ability to lower your taxes without real estate professional status.
So, you know, kind of talked about a myriad of different things out there, but I think awareness is the first step, right? You may not know the nuts and bolts of it, but knowing that these options are out there.
John: So again, you’re not an accountant or a tax attorney or anything like that. But I think where a lot of us get hung up is like, we have mostly active income, and we’re trying to get some kind of way to reduce the tax on that. But I think we’re limited because you can’t really take the depreciation or something on active income as an offset, right? It’s all the passive has to be used to offset the passive income. Is that correct? Or just from what you’re experiencing?
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yes, yes. You’re correctly right there. Passive income is offset by passive losses, which is like the depreciation. But yeah, you’re right. People with a high W2, 1099 income— that’s ordinary income or active income. Or if you sell a stock or crypto, you’re able to— you know, that’s ordinary income. You know, it’s kind of… try and get away from that side, obviously.
So this is where you need to play some other strategies such as real estate professional status to be able to use those losses accordingly to lower that ordinary income. Another option, like I said, oil and gas investments is another go-to strategy for a lot of high-income earners in this situation who, you know, they say, well, I don’t really want to buy rental properties because it’s kind of a pain in the butt and high liability, and so therefore they kind of can’t go down the real estate professional status route. But, you know, another strategy— oil and gas is another strategy.
John: I think the oil and gas is a little more quicker depreciation. That’s what I’ve heard. That doesn’t stress the active. For example, my wife sold a business this year, so she has a big capital gain. And I’m thinking, okay, well, what possible ways are there to use real estate or something like oil and gas to offset that? But I don’t— that’s something, again, I’d have to talk to an attorney about it. I think it’s getting too late in the year. But I don’t know that either of those is an option for that kind of a gain, or is it?
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, maybe you and I should talk after this call. Uhm but yeah, you’ve got till December 31st to enter into a project that gives you these tax deductions. Ah again, would— other people out there, not giving any financial advice, but they should probably start having conversations with JetGBT on oil and gas and intangible drilling costs.
So in these types— you know, what I like to start off with is: why? Why does the government give these good tax incentives for people investing in this stuff? Well, you know, the kind of the obvious is we want to get off of a little bit of foreign reliance of oil, right? We don’t want to be, you know, slaves to the Middle East and Russia, China, who are big producers of this stuff.
And, you know, traditionally, when you go and drill, it’s pretty risky, right? Obviously the technology has drastically changed— got horizontal drilling, you know, in the mix too— and the risk has gone way down. But still, you know, the U.S. government in the tax code has put in nice tax incentives where you’re able to get depreciation on the equipment and what’s also called, usually, like a one-to-one— don’t quote me on this— but you get a nice deduction on the intangible drilling costs.
So it’s kind of a vague term: like, what the heck is intangible drilling costs? You— if you go and you build a pad, right? You get a backhoe excavator, build a pad to where you’re going to drill the oil well. All that is intangible costs, right, that are in there. So that’s what you can deduct.
Of course, the tangible drilling costs, such as the equipment— you know, these are things I think people think of, right, the more tangible things, which is why they call it tangible drilling costs— you know, that obviously goes under other tax incentives such as, you know, equipment deduction, which is very similar to maybe some people out there are offsetting their cars, right, as equipment for their business. Very similar mechanism going on there.
But the IDCs is kind of the big game changer, and it’s not really a loophole. I mean, it’s put there in black and white— like, the government wants to incentivize people to do this type of stuff and lower their tax, and you get the tax incentives to doing it. So, you know, by investing the right way, you’re able to get a lot of these tax advantages.
But some people say, well, why don’t I just invest in Chevron or Exxon or the BP guys? Like, well, you’re investing in the company that are doing this, but they strip out all the tax advantages before it gets to you, right?
So, I mean, that’s just another microcosm of why I’m not a huge fan of investing in, you know, mutual funds— anything that the certified financial planners put out there— because you’re investing through middlemen. I mean, let’s say it: the financial planner is a sales guy, right? And there’s this big layer of overhead and, you know, costs that, you know, very early on, I kind of was lucky enough— because I happened to ask the right questions— like, why don’t I just buy a little bit of a property on my own? Oh, I can do this. And then, why don’t I just go buy an apartment with some other people, right? Like, I’m making so much more because, you know, not that we are better, but just for the mere fact that you’re just not having to pay all these middleman costs and these overhead.
I mean, look at all these huge financial firms. How else do they have these big buildings that they operate out of and these huge CEO salaries?
John: Right.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: I mean, welcome to the, the, the financial complex that is within America and a lot of other countries. Um, that said, you know, part of that is— I think that is good for most people out there, right? To get off the beaten path of what I’m kind of saying here, these alternative financial strategies.
I think it’s important to get around other people doing this. And that’s kind of what I do. I run a community of other investors, and we do in-person retreats, and we get to know other like-minded first-generation multimillionaires— a lot of doctors, a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of engineers like myself. And, you know, we build relationships with people kind of going in the same trajectory, and we kind of huddle along these types of strategies.
John: Okay. I want to ask you about that because you mentioned it earlier and, and, uh, it just— the whole issue of someone like you who can, number one, educate potential partners, I guess is what they would be if they were, you know, investing in a syndication or something with you. So tell me more about what you do.
Uh, maybe even tell me the website, and is some of this stuff available like as an introduction, you know, for free? And then if they’re really into it, the physicians could then maybe either get some direct coaching from you or join you in some of your investments. How does that work?
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. Yeah. To, uh, to join our program costs $50,000. No, just kidding, just kidding. This is not like some wholeselling.
John: No problem!
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Real estate nonsense thing. Yeah. We just— I mean, you know, to be honest, like we just give away all the information for free on the podcasts and like my book, The Wealth Elevator.
And what I would try to do is— I mean, we try to work with people we like and we jive with, right? So it’s a very high-touch approach, right? Like that’s where I have calls with everybody, talk about their situation, trying to point them in the right direction.
I’m not allowed to give financial advice, nor do I want to. That’s your guys’ problem, right? If you want to listen to a guy on a podcast on what financial strategy to do or what investment to do before year-end to shelter ordinary income— that’s crazy. That’s the craziest thing, right?
It’s important to build a relationship with people and surround yourself with other tax professionals that also see the same way. But the problem, I think— yeah, you know, that’s what’s frustrated me, right? Like my parents did it the traditional way their entire lives, and they don’t even realize that they— I mean, they left so much on the table by, you know, putting their money with financial planners and institutions, and they could have just done it themselves.
But that’s— yeah. You know, so what I do is we educate, have a lot of free resources on the website, and the members’ e-courses where they can learn about infinite banking, taxes, you know, a lot of these strategies, and, you know, doing due diligence on deals. That’s a huge topic right there.
And I think that really requires a community around you too, right, to kind of vet and calibrate what you’re learning academically. You know, I know the doctors that come through the doors— you guys, I mean, you know, don’t hide a hundred-dollar bill in an e-course or a book because y’all will find it, right? You guys— you guys are good book-study people.
But I think what gets lost is, like, you read a book or you go through our 10-hour e-course, which is for free, and you kind of get uncalibrated, right? Lost in reality in an extent, right? You may optically look at certain things that aren’t super important. And that’s what’s important for being an investor.
As an investor, you’re taking so many inputs. Some are red herring. Some are very important. Some are minorly important. But so many inputs, and you’re trying to make a determination: am I going to invest in this particular project or asset or people?
And at that point, it’s— again, this is why it’s not for everybody, right? But at least have the exposure to that these different tax strategies exist or these deals that are outside of the— you know, we call it the country club deals.
Because at one time you would get access to the country club and some guy would be doing a deal, and you’d have that personal relationship with them, right? And, you know, it’d be more of a grassroots, less-overhead type of situation.
But you know, obviously people— I mean, I don’t have time for golf, right? I’m not a second-, third-generation millionaire, right? Like, we’re all— we’re all busy.
John: That's six hours blown.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: You know, we’re all busy doing our thing. We don’t have time to be messing around. You know, we haven’t made it yet, which is also another reason why 90% of wealthiest families lose it in two to three generations, because their kids don’t learn this.
And which is why we put a big onus on: hey, you know, when you’re part of our group, bring your family, you know, so they can learn these types of money skills too and get around other people in the younger generation.
But yeah, you know, I think there’s a whole bunch of this world, and obviously I’m very passionate about it. You know, I’ve kind of went through the different stages of the wealth-building journey, and I kind of put it in my book The Wealth Elevator, and it’s broken up in these stages.
You know, the floor one is when you’re a non-accredited investor. The name of the game is buy little rental properties, chip away at it, get your net worth up to a million dollars or accredited investor status — $200,000 net worth or $200,000 of income per year. And then at that point, you know, get into some of these larger deals, but you’re gonna need a community around you to help vet and, you know, learn from them.
And then, you know, at this point, the third floor of the wealth elevator is for people who typically have a net worth of four to five million. You could probably just throw your money in a, you know, money market, T-bill, or life insurance and make 5%, pretty risk-free — lower return, obviously — but, you know, that’s… this is where you start to become more of a sophisticated investor. And you start to round out — you’re going into some riskier things and, you know, maybe a good portion of your portfolio is in more conservative things.
And I gotta catch myself, because apparently I’m not a certified financial planner, so I’m not allowed to talk about this asset-allocation mix.
John: Yeah. Well, people worry about legacy too. And they don’t necessarily want to stop at three or four million because they’ve got to live on this for the next 25 years if they’re in retirement, and still maybe leave something for their kids and their grandkids, you know?
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. I mean, you don’t get to being $10 million net worth by playing it safe your entire life, right? And, I mean… and what’s cool is that there’s such an inflection point in terms of knowledge and confidence that you’re like, you know, I’m investing in things that I intricately believe in — such as, like, I like multifamily workforce housing, like apartments, rents between $800 to $1,200 a month.
I believe the population is increasing in America, at least for the next decade, maybe two — but especially in the lower middle class, right? Because the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer in America. Even the doctors are in the shrinking middle class. And if you don’t get your stuff together, your kids will probably blunder your money and become part of the lower middle class and then rent from us, right?
John: Oh man. Hey, let me ask you a specific question because it's something that's come up in the real estate world. And I just— I almost want to get someone’s counter to it. And that’s with physicians in particular: they’re interested in this residential assisted living, which is kind of weird because it’s not only the real estate, but you also have to manage the thing. So do you have any opinion on that as a type of real estate slash whatever?
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, I had a partner that went through some of the programs that are out there where you pay the $50,000 to get in. Great programs. But what I think people realize once they get into it for six months and start learning is that this is not really a real estate play. It’s a freaking business.
John: It is, it is.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: It has some medical component on top of it. Um, and what you— like, you know— a lot of… I think it attracts a lot of nurses and doctors especially, you know, who have that specialty with the geriatrics portion. So initially it attracts them, but what you realize is that it is not really a medical thing.
In most cases, what they’ll do is they’ll hire a chief medical officer just to sign their name blindly. I’m not— just kidding. But for those technical aspects, right?
John: Right.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: But the person who’s the owner and investor or the operator definitely needs to just be a good, um, business entrepreneur. And a lot of times— I mean, if it were my parents, I would rather have a seasoned business owner than some… you know, doctors are smart, don’t get me wrong, but y’all are very technical people. And unless you’ve gone through the rigors of entrepreneurship before, of running a business, you’re untested, unfortunately.
So that aside— hopefully I don’t offend people with that, right? But hopefully maybe I just shielded people from blowing 50 grand.
John: I think it’s good to get all opinions, you know, different perspectives, because things can sound like too good to be true. And it turns out, well, there’s a side to it that’s not quite as easy to manage— if you haven’t, like you said, run a business before. And most physicians no longer even run their practice.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: And what we, what we look at when we look at things to invest in, we look at macroeconomics, right? What are the driving forces? Obviously with assisted living, you have the baby boomer generation — like the demographics are obvious. I'm not going to refute that. It is so obvious. But I think we're not there yet. Like the baby boomer generation is still pretty young and spry. I think you're still looking like another decade or two before that assisted living bubble hits. Um, or hits at peak.
The way I would play it, at least for now, is: if you're really passionate about it, well, maybe go run a little business first — maybe a franchise first — and get your tested. But if you don't want to listen to me, you want to go straight in it because helping people is your passion and you are that type of individual and you will steamroll everything and all obstacles in the way, and you still want to do it — what I would say is maybe wait for it. Let this first round that people go through and fail, and then buy it off of them when they've totally messed it up. You know, buy it from the other doctor that messed up before you.
John: Right.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: I mean, this is essentially what we do with apartments or other assets we buy. We typically buy it from a distressed individual in that circumstance who's tried or failed or hit some other issues in life. Um, you know, or retiring in that stage. But that's the way I would maybe see the play up. But if it’s your passion, I'm not going to tell anybody not to go about it.
John: Okay.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: But it's— mean— I actually am a passive investor in one of these things, so I believe in it for sure. But, um, you know, you got to know your operator for sure. But, um, you know, I think you and I were talking about like a lot of the listeners, you're kind of stuck as an employee—
John: Right.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: And there's missing autonomy there. So I get, I get— mean, even myself, right? Like I was an engineer. I didn't like my job. I was looking for autonomy too there, but sometimes you got to be careful you're not just kind of searching out of, like, running away from being somebody's employee and getting yourself in a tough situation. Because running an assisted living facility is way harder than running a hundred-unit apartment complex. Way, way harder. I meant what I said earlier — it's a freaking business.
John: Yeah. There's regulations, there's the public health you have to go through.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah — and people's lives are at stake too, right? Like, geez.
John: All right. Let me bring it back to you and your business, because I want to get a better feel because, you know, I think one of the secrets for someone like me to get involved is to find somebody like you that I can trust and that has, you know, years of experience. So if I go to your website, you know, am I going to find some things and then can I invest with you? What does the whole picture look like for you?
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. I mean, what I would say is check out my book on Amazon.
John: Okay.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: People buy it. Uh, she does say email team@thewealthelevator.com and we'll hook them up with the free PDF version and the audiobook version there. And then, you know, the next step is, you know, build a personal relationship with us. Um, she may email lane@thewealthelevator.com and let's just hop on the Zoom and, you know, I'm going to try and talk you out of it because this is not for everybody. Right? Especially technical thinkers out there who are unable to decipher, you know, and make, you know, gray-area choices. I mean, that's what investing is. There's never a clear-cut sign that points to “yes.” If you're looking for that, then work with a certified financial planner who's just going to serve up a 60/40 stocks, mutual funds or whatnot portfolio.
John: Maybe I should just follow Dave Ramsey's formula.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Well, Dave Ramsey — I think he's good for people who are in debt, who aren't really good at their finances. That's it. A lot of doctors are kind of like that too. You know, there's a concept of keeping up with the Joneses right after residency.
John: Yeah, that's true. And over their heads sometimes.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: I'll say this: you know, investors that — you know, most doctor profiles that I see coming in — guys in their… most of my clients are in their fifties. So we'll take somebody just before that. Typically I'll see their net worth, you know, one and a half million, somewhere in there, two and a half. But the doctors doing these tax strategies, alternate investments, gotten off the beaten path and done this for several years — their net worths are all four or five mil plus. It is night and day. But you would never know. You would never know.
John: Yeah. I think real estate — and like you said, a lot of it was based on what the government has done to make it easy and to be, you know, be positive because they want people to develop these… whatever it might be related to real estate. So I mean, it makes sense, but no one teaches us that. We have to seek it out from someone like you, I think, if we really want to take advantage of it.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Look, I'm not a guru. I'm, you know, I'm an investor myself, but, you know, my thing is like teach people enough so that they can kind of sink and swim on their own.
John: Well, I think I've taken up enough of your time today. Lane, this has been fun. I really appreciate it. I appreciate your feedback and telling us what you're doing. And I definitely recommend the book. I've scanned through it — there's a lot of information there. That would be a good way to just kind of get your feet wet and see if it's something you want to pursue. Then the website again is…
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: thewealthelevator.com. Yeah. Don't forget “the.”
John: the thewealthelevator.com. All right. And you've got the podcast. So let's see — what do you have? A few hundred episodes of that thing, I think.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, been at it a while now. Sometimes I joke.
John: Just sit down for two weeks, just listen 24-7 and release.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you keep on the times, right? But I would say start with the book first. That's a real good starting point for people who are short on time.
John: Fantastic. All right. Thanks a lot, Lane. This has been great. Hopefully we'll follow up with you again in the future. And I think the audience will get a lot out of today's interview. It's been fun.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Cool, John. Take care.
John: Take care.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Bye.
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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 433
Why Real Estate Syndications are an Awesome Wealth Elevator
- Interview with Mr. Lane Kawaoka
John: Today’s guest has been deeply involved with real estate investing for years. And he’s written some books on the subject, the most recent of which is called, "The Wealth Elevator: Real Estate Syndications", "Accredited Investor Banking", and "Tax Strategies for First-Gen Millionaires". So I’m really anxious to meet our guest and pick his brain for the next 25 or 30 minutes. Lane Kawaoka, welcome to the podcast.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, thanks for having me. Aloha, everybody.
John: Aloha. You’re in the… Hawaii, I guess.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yep, yep. Hawaii. I used to live in Seattle in the rain and cold there, but, you know, with the passive investing or real estate, you know, you’re able to work where you want and, you know, live where you want, but, you know, kind of live a lifestyle that, you know, where you’re kind of unbound. So I like the weather here, and, you know, now we kind of invest a lot remotely in the best places in the country. So it kind of allows me to kind of, you know, live where I want.
John: That’s cool. Yeah. Why not live in paradise there if you can, right? Tell us a little bit about your background. Just a short version of— you didn’t start out as an investor, I guess, like most investors don’t start that way. So tell us how you got started after your initial profession.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. So I graduated college in 2007. I was not a very good student, maybe made a 3.01. But I was good at math and science, so I became an engineer, right? Cause I was also super lazy. So I didn’t want to go for, you know, grad school, doctorates— not that I was that smart anyway— but, you know, I wanted to get paid the least amount of college education to get the highest amount of pay. So if you core that, those are all your engineering degrees.
So that’s what I did. I started to work as a construction supervisor for the railroad back in 2007. I made a good salary, but I think the reason why a lot of engineers become investors— real estate investors especially— is because we don’t make multiple six figures, right? We typically top out at about 250 as a manager.
But I was still really good at my finances, able to save $20,000, $30,000 a year in my early twenties. And I followed all the dogma that we’re all taught to do: invest in the 401K, buy a house to live in. I eventually bought a house. And because I was owning a home on Saturdays— because I was traveling all over for work, mobile construction sites was kind of what I was doing— I decided to rent it out on a whim.
And that was kind of where I got into this world of passive real estate investing on the side, and bought another duplex in Seattle in 2012–13. And then by 2015, I had sort of gone bonkers and bought 11 properties out of state— you know, a lot of these Birmingham, Atlanta, Indianapolis— more for cashflow.
But, you know, I’ll kind of pause there, but that was kind of where I hit a precipice of accredited investor status, which I know a lot of the listeners out there— net worth million or greater or make over $200,000. And I started to uncover a lot of other accredited investors that kind of trade in their little rental properties or skip over that step and go straight into private placements and syndications as a passive investor.
John: Well, let’s just pause it, like you said, for a minute. And it must’ve been difficult to be managing those real estate investments from a distance. I suppose you have local managers or something. How did that work?
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, mind you, the investing that I used to do back in the day was, you know, not wholesaling or flipping. Like, to me, that’s all you do in real estate when you don’t have too much money. I had a good-paying job, was pretty busy at my professional job. I thought it was going to be my thing, so I was actually working really hard to try and get promotions at that time.
But, you know, at that point I was just doing 20% down payments and kind of plugging along that way to pick up more and more properties. But part of the strategy was just getting a professional property manager to kind of do my dirty work for me. And most importantly, you know, they pay them 10% of the rents. It is what it is, but it allowed me to focus on my highest and best use.
So, you know, whether you’re a dentist, doctor, engineer— like my hourly rate was much higher than messing around flipping houses on the side. And then, from a legal liability standpoint, you know, it was always nice to have that third-party intermediary there that has insurance on top of that. But, you know, still, as a landlord, you know, rental properties are a little bit dirty in terms of liability. Even if you, you know, put it in LLCs and entities, you know, it’s definitely not as clean as being a passive investor in a larger syndication deal.
John: Yeah, absolutely. Well, okay, let’s move on, but let’s keep in mind the fact that my audience is mostly physicians, and if they’re doing things properly— even if they’re working full-time heavily as a physician— if they’re smart, they’re putting a lot of money away because they’re going to get burned out eventually, and they’re going to want to try something else. And a lot of them look at this.
So you got into syndications, but tell us what you discovered that would be right up the alley of most physicians starting in real estate.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. I mean, we have an entire course about doing due diligence in looking at the right deals, as opposed to getting these daisy-chain deals that are kind of thrown around there. A lot of doctor communities have these types of things out there.
And then also, you know, being able to decipher: is this a sucker deal or not? Right? Like, we’re not going to— I mean, we can go into this podcast in that way, but, you know, a lot of my clients who are doctors, a lot of the low-hanging fruit is more on the tax side.
Right? So, you know, I think people hear about Roth IRAs, 401Ks, maybe even solo 401Ks as strategies, paying your kids, right? Like, to me, this is all very small-potatoes types of tax strategies. And a lot of those strategies— like the 401K— are just deferring your income into the future. You’re going to have to pay that at some point.
And, you know, for a variety of reasons, the tax rates are probably going to be higher in the future.
John: Right.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: And so, you know, the idea is, you know, using the real estate where you get depreciation from the asset to lower your other passive income that you may have. Now, some investors that are doctors may have a situation where their spouse doesn’t work and watches the kids, and they may be able to employ real estate professional status and be able to enact different tax strategies where they use some of these losses to offset their other income that they have.
Of course, not giving any tax or legal advice here, right? But this is stuff that we see all the time. And if people need a referral to a professional, you know, to kind of work this on your own personal situation, you know, let me know. But I always think that’s important for people to be empowered and know at least what to ask their CPA, because most people out there just have standard CPAs that just want to do the standard way and do it the easy way.
Unless you know something to push them, you know, they don’t really do it, right? You know, it’s unfortunate. It’s not like the doctors out there who, you know, want to heal the patient the best way they possibly can. I know that you guys have insurance red tape in there and everything, but in other industries, you know— especially when it’s not life and death— you know, people just do things the easy way, right?
So it’s important to kind of push and lean on your vendors. And part of that is being empowered. So part of that just is knowing that these are options that you have.
And, you know, but some people— they’ll get, they’ll do maybe a short-term rental. I am not a huge fan of that. You know, we can chat about your own situation if that makes sense. But, you know, for most people, that’s a lot of legal liability, a lot of headache. So I’m not a huge fan of the short-term rental strategy and buying short-term rentals and doing it that way.
What I would say is, before we go down that road, for a lot of folks who are doctors, right, in this client profile— what I would say check first is just simply going into real estate deals and getting more passive income, because you can offset that with a natural depreciation. And today, 100% bonus depreciation laws to offset that income.
Another option that people have done in the past is land conservation easements. People may want to Google that. And I say that this is not really a viable strategy today, but I just say that to open people’s horizons, right?
Especially with ChatGPT today, people are able to, you know, learn about the stuff and query AI and really get— you know, understand that these options are out there. Again, not a viable strategy, right? We’ve kind of moved away from it as a community because of audit risks and other factors.
But, you know, another option would be investing in oil and gas, right? Put that into your AI, right? You get a lot of good tax benefits to offset ordinary income in those situations. And that has the ability to lower your taxes without real estate professional status.
So, you know, kind of talked about a myriad of different things out there, but I think awareness is the first step, right? You may not know the nuts and bolts of it, but knowing that these options are out there.
John: So again, you’re not an accountant or a tax attorney or anything like that. But I think where a lot of us get hung up is like, we have mostly active income, and we’re trying to get some kind of way to reduce the tax on that. But I think we’re limited because you can’t really take the depreciation or something on active income as an offset, right? It’s all the passive has to be used to offset the passive income. Is that correct? Or just from what you’re experiencing?
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yes, yes. You’re correctly right there. Passive income is offset by passive losses, which is like the depreciation. But yeah, you’re right. People with a high W2, 1099 income— that’s ordinary income or active income. Or if you sell a stock or crypto, you’re able to— you know, that’s ordinary income. You know, it’s kind of… try and get away from that side, obviously.
So this is where you need to play some other strategies such as real estate professional status to be able to use those losses accordingly to lower that ordinary income. Another option, like I said, oil and gas investments is another go-to strategy for a lot of high-income earners in this situation who, you know, they say, well, I don’t really want to buy rental properties because it’s kind of a pain in the butt and high liability, and so therefore they kind of can’t go down the real estate professional status route. But, you know, another strategy— oil and gas is another strategy.
John: I think the oil and gas is a little more quicker depreciation. That’s what I’ve heard. That doesn’t stress the active. For example, my wife sold a business this year, so she has a big capital gain. And I’m thinking, okay, well, what possible ways are there to use real estate or something like oil and gas to offset that? But I don’t— that’s something, again, I’d have to talk to an attorney about it. I think it’s getting too late in the year. But I don’t know that either of those is an option for that kind of a gain, or is it?
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, maybe you and I should talk after this call. Uhm but yeah, you’ve got till December 31st to enter into a project that gives you these tax deductions. Ah again, would— other people out there, not giving any financial advice, but they should probably start having conversations with JetGBT on oil and gas and intangible drilling costs.
So in these types— you know, what I like to start off with is: why? Why does the government give these good tax incentives for people investing in this stuff? Well, you know, the kind of the obvious is we want to get off of a little bit of foreign reliance of oil, right? We don’t want to be, you know, slaves to the Middle East and Russia, China, who are big producers of this stuff.
And, you know, traditionally, when you go and drill, it’s pretty risky, right? Obviously the technology has drastically changed— got horizontal drilling, you know, in the mix too— and the risk has gone way down. But still, you know, the U.S. government in the tax code has put in nice tax incentives where you’re able to get depreciation on the equipment and what’s also called, usually, like a one-to-one— don’t quote me on this— but you get a nice deduction on the intangible drilling costs.
So it’s kind of a vague term: like, what the heck is intangible drilling costs? You— if you go and you build a pad, right? You get a backhoe excavator, build a pad to where you’re going to drill the oil well. All that is intangible costs, right, that are in there. So that’s what you can deduct.
Of course, the tangible drilling costs, such as the equipment— you know, these are things I think people think of, right, the more tangible things, which is why they call it tangible drilling costs— you know, that obviously goes under other tax incentives such as, you know, equipment deduction, which is very similar to maybe some people out there are offsetting their cars, right, as equipment for their business. Very similar mechanism going on there.
But the IDCs is kind of the big game changer, and it’s not really a loophole. I mean, it’s put there in black and white— like, the government wants to incentivize people to do this type of stuff and lower their tax, and you get the tax incentives to doing it. So, you know, by investing the right way, you’re able to get a lot of these tax advantages.
But some people say, well, why don’t I just invest in Chevron or Exxon or the BP guys? Like, well, you’re investing in the company that are doing this, but they strip out all the tax advantages before it gets to you, right?
So, I mean, that’s just another microcosm of why I’m not a huge fan of investing in, you know, mutual funds— anything that the certified financial planners put out there— because you’re investing through middlemen. I mean, let’s say it: the financial planner is a sales guy, right? And there’s this big layer of overhead and, you know, costs that, you know, very early on, I kind of was lucky enough— because I happened to ask the right questions— like, why don’t I just buy a little bit of a property on my own? Oh, I can do this. And then, why don’t I just go buy an apartment with some other people, right? Like, I’m making so much more because, you know, not that we are better, but just for the mere fact that you’re just not having to pay all these middleman costs and these overhead.
I mean, look at all these huge financial firms. How else do they have these big buildings that they operate out of and these huge CEO salaries?
John: Right.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: I mean, welcome to the, the, the financial complex that is within America and a lot of other countries. Um, that said, you know, part of that is— I think that is good for most people out there, right? To get off the beaten path of what I’m kind of saying here, these alternative financial strategies.
I think it’s important to get around other people doing this. And that’s kind of what I do. I run a community of other investors, and we do in-person retreats, and we get to know other like-minded first-generation multimillionaires— a lot of doctors, a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of engineers like myself. And, you know, we build relationships with people kind of going in the same trajectory, and we kind of huddle along these types of strategies.
John: Okay. I want to ask you about that because you mentioned it earlier and, and, uh, it just— the whole issue of someone like you who can, number one, educate potential partners, I guess is what they would be if they were, you know, investing in a syndication or something with you. So tell me more about what you do.
Uh, maybe even tell me the website, and is some of this stuff available like as an introduction, you know, for free? And then if they’re really into it, the physicians could then maybe either get some direct coaching from you or join you in some of your investments. How does that work?
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. Yeah. To, uh, to join our program costs $50,000. No, just kidding, just kidding. This is not like some wholeselling.
John: No problem!
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Real estate nonsense thing. Yeah. We just— I mean, you know, to be honest, like we just give away all the information for free on the podcasts and like my book, The Wealth Elevator.
And what I would try to do is— I mean, we try to work with people we like and we jive with, right? So it’s a very high-touch approach, right? Like that’s where I have calls with everybody, talk about their situation, trying to point them in the right direction.
I’m not allowed to give financial advice, nor do I want to. That’s your guys’ problem, right? If you want to listen to a guy on a podcast on what financial strategy to do or what investment to do before year-end to shelter ordinary income— that’s crazy. That’s the craziest thing, right?
It’s important to build a relationship with people and surround yourself with other tax professionals that also see the same way. But the problem, I think— yeah, you know, that’s what’s frustrated me, right? Like my parents did it the traditional way their entire lives, and they don’t even realize that they— I mean, they left so much on the table by, you know, putting their money with financial planners and institutions, and they could have just done it themselves.
But that’s— yeah. You know, so what I do is we educate, have a lot of free resources on the website, and the members’ e-courses where they can learn about infinite banking, taxes, you know, a lot of these strategies, and, you know, doing due diligence on deals. That’s a huge topic right there.
And I think that really requires a community around you too, right, to kind of vet and calibrate what you’re learning academically. You know, I know the doctors that come through the doors— you guys, I mean, you know, don’t hide a hundred-dollar bill in an e-course or a book because y’all will find it, right? You guys— you guys are good book-study people.
But I think what gets lost is, like, you read a book or you go through our 10-hour e-course, which is for free, and you kind of get uncalibrated, right? Lost in reality in an extent, right? You may optically look at certain things that aren’t super important. And that’s what’s important for being an investor.
As an investor, you’re taking so many inputs. Some are red herring. Some are very important. Some are minorly important. But so many inputs, and you’re trying to make a determination: am I going to invest in this particular project or asset or people?
And at that point, it’s— again, this is why it’s not for everybody, right? But at least have the exposure to that these different tax strategies exist or these deals that are outside of the— you know, we call it the country club deals.
Because at one time you would get access to the country club and some guy would be doing a deal, and you’d have that personal relationship with them, right? And, you know, it’d be more of a grassroots, less-overhead type of situation.
But you know, obviously people— I mean, I don’t have time for golf, right? I’m not a second-, third-generation millionaire, right? Like, we’re all— we’re all busy.
John: That's six hours blown.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: You know, we’re all busy doing our thing. We don’t have time to be messing around. You know, we haven’t made it yet, which is also another reason why 90% of wealthiest families lose it in two to three generations, because their kids don’t learn this.
And which is why we put a big onus on: hey, you know, when you’re part of our group, bring your family, you know, so they can learn these types of money skills too and get around other people in the younger generation.
But yeah, you know, I think there’s a whole bunch of this world, and obviously I’m very passionate about it. You know, I’ve kind of went through the different stages of the wealth-building journey, and I kind of put it in my book The Wealth Elevator, and it’s broken up in these stages.
You know, the floor one is when you’re a non-accredited investor. The name of the game is buy little rental properties, chip away at it, get your net worth up to a million dollars or accredited investor status — $200,000 net worth or $200,000 of income per year. And then at that point, you know, get into some of these larger deals, but you’re gonna need a community around you to help vet and, you know, learn from them.
And then, you know, at this point, the third floor of the wealth elevator is for people who typically have a net worth of four to five million. You could probably just throw your money in a, you know, money market, T-bill, or life insurance and make 5%, pretty risk-free — lower return, obviously — but, you know, that’s… this is where you start to become more of a sophisticated investor. And you start to round out — you’re going into some riskier things and, you know, maybe a good portion of your portfolio is in more conservative things.
And I gotta catch myself, because apparently I’m not a certified financial planner, so I’m not allowed to talk about this asset-allocation mix.
John: Yeah. Well, people worry about legacy too. And they don’t necessarily want to stop at three or four million because they’ve got to live on this for the next 25 years if they’re in retirement, and still maybe leave something for their kids and their grandkids, you know?
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. I mean, you don’t get to being $10 million net worth by playing it safe your entire life, right? And, I mean… and what’s cool is that there’s such an inflection point in terms of knowledge and confidence that you’re like, you know, I’m investing in things that I intricately believe in — such as, like, I like multifamily workforce housing, like apartments, rents between $800 to $1,200 a month.
I believe the population is increasing in America, at least for the next decade, maybe two — but especially in the lower middle class, right? Because the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer in America. Even the doctors are in the shrinking middle class. And if you don’t get your stuff together, your kids will probably blunder your money and become part of the lower middle class and then rent from us, right?
John: Oh man. Hey, let me ask you a specific question because it's something that's come up in the real estate world. And I just— I almost want to get someone’s counter to it. And that’s with physicians in particular: they’re interested in this residential assisted living, which is kind of weird because it’s not only the real estate, but you also have to manage the thing. So do you have any opinion on that as a type of real estate slash whatever?
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, I had a partner that went through some of the programs that are out there where you pay the $50,000 to get in. Great programs. But what I think people realize once they get into it for six months and start learning is that this is not really a real estate play. It’s a freaking business.
John: It is, it is.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: It has some medical component on top of it. Um, and what you— like, you know— a lot of… I think it attracts a lot of nurses and doctors especially, you know, who have that specialty with the geriatrics portion. So initially it attracts them, but what you realize is that it is not really a medical thing.
In most cases, what they’ll do is they’ll hire a chief medical officer just to sign their name blindly. I’m not— just kidding. But for those technical aspects, right?
John: Right.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: But the person who’s the owner and investor or the operator definitely needs to just be a good, um, business entrepreneur. And a lot of times— I mean, if it were my parents, I would rather have a seasoned business owner than some… you know, doctors are smart, don’t get me wrong, but y’all are very technical people. And unless you’ve gone through the rigors of entrepreneurship before, of running a business, you’re untested, unfortunately.
So that aside— hopefully I don’t offend people with that, right? But hopefully maybe I just shielded people from blowing 50 grand.
John: I think it’s good to get all opinions, you know, different perspectives, because things can sound like too good to be true. And it turns out, well, there’s a side to it that’s not quite as easy to manage— if you haven’t, like you said, run a business before. And most physicians no longer even run their practice.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: And what we, what we look at when we look at things to invest in, we look at macroeconomics, right? What are the driving forces? Obviously with assisted living, you have the baby boomer generation — like the demographics are obvious. I'm not going to refute that. It is so obvious. But I think we're not there yet. Like the baby boomer generation is still pretty young and spry. I think you're still looking like another decade or two before that assisted living bubble hits. Um, or hits at peak.
The way I would play it, at least for now, is: if you're really passionate about it, well, maybe go run a little business first — maybe a franchise first — and get your tested. But if you don't want to listen to me, you want to go straight in it because helping people is your passion and you are that type of individual and you will steamroll everything and all obstacles in the way, and you still want to do it — what I would say is maybe wait for it. Let this first round that people go through and fail, and then buy it off of them when they've totally messed it up. You know, buy it from the other doctor that messed up before you.
John: Right.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: I mean, this is essentially what we do with apartments or other assets we buy. We typically buy it from a distressed individual in that circumstance who's tried or failed or hit some other issues in life. Um, you know, or retiring in that stage. But that's the way I would maybe see the play up. But if it’s your passion, I'm not going to tell anybody not to go about it.
John: Okay.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: But it's— mean— I actually am a passive investor in one of these things, so I believe in it for sure. But, um, you know, you got to know your operator for sure. But, um, you know, I think you and I were talking about like a lot of the listeners, you're kind of stuck as an employee—
John: Right.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: And there's missing autonomy there. So I get, I get— mean, even myself, right? Like I was an engineer. I didn't like my job. I was looking for autonomy too there, but sometimes you got to be careful you're not just kind of searching out of, like, running away from being somebody's employee and getting yourself in a tough situation. Because running an assisted living facility is way harder than running a hundred-unit apartment complex. Way, way harder. I meant what I said earlier — it's a freaking business.
John: Yeah. There's regulations, there's the public health you have to go through.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah — and people's lives are at stake too, right? Like, geez.
John: All right. Let me bring it back to you and your business, because I want to get a better feel because, you know, I think one of the secrets for someone like me to get involved is to find somebody like you that I can trust and that has, you know, years of experience. So if I go to your website, you know, am I going to find some things and then can I invest with you? What does the whole picture look like for you?
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. I mean, what I would say is check out my book on Amazon.
John: Okay.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: People buy it. Uh, she does say email team@thewealthelevator.com and we'll hook them up with the free PDF version and the audiobook version there. And then, you know, the next step is, you know, build a personal relationship with us. Um, she may email lane@thewealthelevator.com and let's just hop on the Zoom and, you know, I'm going to try and talk you out of it because this is not for everybody. Right? Especially technical thinkers out there who are unable to decipher, you know, and make, you know, gray-area choices. I mean, that's what investing is. There's never a clear-cut sign that points to “yes.” If you're looking for that, then work with a certified financial planner who's just going to serve up a 60/40 stocks, mutual funds or whatnot portfolio.
John: Maybe I should just follow Dave Ramsey's formula.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Well, Dave Ramsey — I think he's good for people who are in debt, who aren't really good at their finances. That's it. A lot of doctors are kind of like that too. You know, there's a concept of keeping up with the Joneses right after residency.
John: Yeah, that's true. And over their heads sometimes.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: I'll say this: you know, investors that — you know, most doctor profiles that I see coming in — guys in their… most of my clients are in their fifties. So we'll take somebody just before that. Typically I'll see their net worth, you know, one and a half million, somewhere in there, two and a half. But the doctors doing these tax strategies, alternate investments, gotten off the beaten path and done this for several years — their net worths are all four or five mil plus. It is night and day. But you would never know. You would never know.
John: Yeah. I think real estate — and like you said, a lot of it was based on what the government has done to make it easy and to be, you know, be positive because they want people to develop these… whatever it might be related to real estate. So I mean, it makes sense, but no one teaches us that. We have to seek it out from someone like you, I think, if we really want to take advantage of it.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Look, I'm not a guru. I'm, you know, I'm an investor myself, but, you know, my thing is like teach people enough so that they can kind of sink and swim on their own.
John: Well, I think I've taken up enough of your time today. Lane, this has been fun. I really appreciate it. I appreciate your feedback and telling us what you're doing. And I definitely recommend the book. I've scanned through it — there's a lot of information there. That would be a good way to just kind of get your feet wet and see if it's something you want to pursue. Then the website again is…
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: thewealthelevator.com. Yeah. Don't forget “the.”
John: the thewealthelevator.com. All right. And you've got the podcast. So let's see — what do you have? A few hundred episodes of that thing, I think.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, been at it a while now. Sometimes I joke.
John: Just sit down for two weeks, just listen 24-7 and release.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you keep on the times, right? But I would say start with the book first. That's a real good starting point for people who are short on time.
John: Fantastic. All right. Thanks a lot, Lane. This has been great. Hopefully we'll follow up with you again in the future. And I think the audience will get a lot out of today's interview. It's been fun.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Cool, John. Take care.
John: Take care.
Mr. Lane Kawaoka: Bye.
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