social media Archives - NonClinical Physicians

Top Insider Tips on Branding and Social Media for Clinicians

John Jurica — Tue, 07 Nov 2023 13:08:10 +0000

Interview with Dr. Dana Corriel – 325

This week, John dives into an insightful interview with Dr. Dana Corriel, where she shares invaluable insights on personal branding and the path to nonclinical careers for physicians.

Dr. Dana Corriel, a renowned expert in personal branding for physicians and nonclinical careers in healthcare, shared her valuable insights on episode 94 back in June 2019. She brings a wealth of knowledge as a board-certified internist who has recognized the evolving role of the Internet in healthcare. She is dedicated to empowering healthcare professionals to brand themselves effectively and contribute to improving the healthcare system.

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The Power of Personal Branding in Healthcare

The conversation underscores the power of personal branding, allowing physicians to control their professional identity, regardless of the hospital systems or organizations they work with. Authenticity remains a central theme, with Dr. Corriel stressing that a physician's brand should authentically mirror their principles, vision, and values.

But today, each of us are basically brands. We are each becoming what’s called intellectual property – Understanding Branding

Furthermore, Dana, provided key points to guide physicians in creating their brand aligned with their values and career goals:

Understanding branding
Creating content online
Authenticity and values
Nonclinical careers

Dr. Dana Corriel's Important Message

I think that all of us as healthcare professionals need to first of all take a step back and survey the situation and determine where our fit is here, and then arm ourselves with the tools in order to fit ourselves in this in the right way.

Summary

Dr. Corriel recognizes that the journey toward personal branding and nonclinical careers is a unique and individualized process. She emphasizes the importance of physicians charting their path and carving out their niche within their preferred field. This approach grants them autonomy and control over their career, a liberating shift for physicians who may have felt constrained within the conventional healthcare system.

She also mentioned SoMeDocs, a platform designed to assist with networking and content creation, which can be a valuable resource for physicians looking to explore nonclinical career opportunities.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

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Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 325

Top Insider Tips on Branding and Social Media - Interview with Dr. Dana Corriel

John: Hello everybody, this is John Jurica. I'm a podcaster at Physician Nonclinical Careers podcast. That's kind of my claim to fame in a way, and the reason why I'm interested in hearing about branding and social media and anything related to that. I don't know exactly what we're going to hear today, but Dana did say that she was willing to spend some time teaching us about branding and social media. And so, I've got a few questions, but she is an internist and she has SoMeDocs and somedocs.com and drcorriel.com and some other things too numerous for me to mention. And so, I appreciate her for being here today and today. Dana, if you want to go ahead and say anything else about your introduction, I'd be happy to have you do that for us.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Absolutely. To whoever's here and whoever's listening later, I'm Dana Corriel. I'm a board certified internist, and I have dabbled in the online space for many years. Years ago, I foreshadowed that the internet would be the main form of communication between humans and I actually don't even think we've reached the place where we're going to be in the future, but I can definitely foresee what's going to happen, and in an attempt to brace myself, towards that place, I think that all of us as healthcare professionals need to first of all take a step back and survey the situation and determine where our fit is here, and then arm ourselves with the tools in order to fit ourselves in this in the right way.

I think that we are the rightful healthcare influencers. I think that the word "influencer" has a really bad rap, but I think that if you re-angle the way you think of influencing, you can realize that many of us, we influence every single day. And so, what I specialize in is how do we brand ourselves as physicians the right way? How do we do that together? And then what are many of the tools that we can use to do that? And I have created many of those resources that I have, and I actually just left clinical medicine in order to dedicate my 100% full effort towards bettering the healthcare system and doing it together.

John: Yeah, that's a good intro. I'm definitely interested in breaking this down and getting your input on this and learn more about it. I think the simplest thing is to just ask you to maybe describe what you mean by when you talk about branding, because it's like a term that I can get my head around. I know that we need to get our message out there and let people know who we are. But when you're thinking and talking about branding for physicians, give me the whole overview of what that might mean.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Yeah. The old way that we used to think of a brand was like a thing, a product, a physical entity. One of those examples could be Coca-Cola, another one could be Nike. When you say those words, it conjures images of certain things. It also conjures up emotions. When we say Coca-Cola, the Coca-Cola company would like to brand itself as something that is refreshing, something like that puts a smile on your face. That's why they have images out of the polar bear during Christmas and happy families. That's extremely clever marketing techniques to brand.

But today, each of us are basically brands. We are each becoming what's called intellectual property - IP. And that means that each of us is a brand that could be represented on different platforms that are not necessarily physical or existent. Examples are on social media platforms, like on Facebook and on Twitter. Another example is in a book. You could put your thoughts down, your IP down in a book. But at the end of the day, it's important for us as physicians to be a part of that space because eventually in the future, if you don't own your rightful intellectual property, then someone else can.

And so, again, that's just very brief in a nutshell. I want to also mention that an example that comes to mind when I think of an intellectual property that's an actual person is someone like Oprah or someone actually like Dr. Oz. These are people that stand for something. They are brands. Oprah. She is someone who's thought process and thinking in general, the things that she puts out are extremely valuable and important. Same with Dr. Oz. Whether or not you agree with him, he's looked up to. And so, how amazing would it be if physicians were actual thought leaders as we should be, because we've earned degrees and we're medical doctors, and so we're intelligent people that are capable and should be creating intellectual property that's valued.

John: We should have a persona. We represent some authority and that sort of thing, which is all part of our brand. And so, if I'm in my practice, then there's a certain brand associated with that. But that does extend particularly in the Facebook group where we're aiming some of this is that there are a lot of people in there that are looking not to be in practice. So, maybe you can expound a little bit on the importance of branding in those situations.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Oh, absolutely. In fact, now more than ever, I think I mentioned that I left clinical practice. I didn't leave clinical practice because of my SoMeDocs because it is taking off. I left because healthcare is broken in my opinion. It wasn't working for me. I'm a generalist, I'm an internist. It just doesn't work. And so, I think that I want to give my best attempt at fixing healthcare, at least doing my part in it indirectly by creating this company SoMeDocs, and by fueling individual physicians and their online voices to actually collectively change a big system.

But inherent in branding and putting yourself out there is the fact that you literally can invent yourself or even reinvent yourself. You could go on there as the neurologist that you are and create an IP. I create IP content that revolves around a neurological concept.

Like you want to be a thought leader in headaches, go ahead do that. But you don't have to. If you want to start dabbling in things outside of medicine, the online world is really your oyster right now. You can literally tomorrow, today, this second, get off of the internet, look up the URL of the desired website that you want to own and become a thought leader of, and you can claim ownership of it.

So, if you literally want to dabble in finance, and become the finance guru of physicians, it is not too late. All you have to do is find out if that website is open, is available, claim ownership by paying the company that was smart enough to in advance have either bought that domain or just the companies that own these things and operate them and start creating content.

Now, it's not easy to brand. The first step is claiming ownership, is finding the name for yourself, for the brand and defining the goals of that brand. But afterwards, it might be a long process, but it's definitely doable for physicians. For example, for physicians that are looking for nonclinical careers, there are a lot out there. But you can literally create that nonclinical career yourself by first understanding the concept of branding, deciding where you want to dabble, and then dabbling in it by creating content online.

John: The thing I notice on this is that, if you're an entrepreneur, like my wife owns a business and I've owned different practices, and this whole idea of branding becomes sort of second nature, or if you're building a product or providing some other service. But for physicians, it's like, "Well, I have my brand. I'm going to have my name in the yellow pages. I have a little picture on the website, and I have my name on the bulletin board or on this marquee out front. People know I'm here." So, I guess I'm getting into the how-to, but that's not really quite what you're talking about in terms of branding yourself.

Dr. Dana Corriel: I think that it still holds clout, sufficient clout to do certain things, but I think that the world is changing. I'm not happy about it. I'm very actually sad about it. I think that having earned a medical degree no longer confers the authority that we once had. And that's because of the internet. It's because of social media.

And an easy explanation for that is just look at who is influencing and look at the way that they're influencing. So, you take celebrities and you give them a space where they can market themselves, and it's genius. They get to say what they want, but the second the lines are blurred and they start talking about healthcare, it becomes confusing because they're not healthcare professionals. And so, when they're saying things that are correct, it's one thing, but when they're speaking out incorrectly, then you've got pseudoscience out there and we don't like that happening.

And it's actually becoming real life now that, for example, all the anti-vax sentiment is flowing into the real world and people are actually not vaccinating. And so, again, I think a medical degree is important in real life, but the more we increasingly live online, the less that becomes meaningful. And it's very sad. Basically, the online world sort of equalizes the playing field. And so, we're all sort of equal online because there's no real vetting process. So you've got to stake your claim in it, even as a doctor.

And I think that that's one of the problems here is that as a physician, we've always traditionally been so comfortable in our skin and we've come at it from a place of, "Well, we've earned it." And everyone always just took that for granted and respected us, but we're losing that because of the online world. So we've got to really take control of it and take charge, but also do it cleverly and strategically.

John: I think a lot of us had the feeling that the more letters we had after our name, that was our marketing, that was our branding. As long as I have an extra degree or some certification, that's really going to put me above the others. But it really isn't.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Not any more.

John: The thing I notice is when you start a new business, your marketing plan should be there from the beginning. It has to be part of it. You can't wait till you're six or 12 months into a new business and then decide, okay, now I'm going to do the marketing. It's almost going to start even before you open your doors in some way.

So, let's just touch a little bit on this. We don't have a ton of time, but to move into, if I was a physician and let's focus maybe a little more on the nonclinical career than the clinical, but a little bit of both, what does that really look like when you're saying that I'm branding myself, I'm marketing myself? How is it different from just let's say networking with my colleagues or putting a post on Facebook or something like that?

Dr. Dana Corriel: I think networking is super important. We could talk about that later. SoMeDocs main goal is to have physicians network, but I think that you can't really effectively build a brand without networking. Now, networking serves a much broader purpose in that you can actually link up with people that have an already existing business and you can join them. And so, you take something like an MLM I think they're called, but the businesses that work in that way. And that's for example, where networking can really help and that someone's already defined and discovered something and you're then going to sell it. The difference from that and branding is that they're interrelated. The nice thing about branding is that you can literally create your own space and your own product. Product, again, standing for UP and it can sell itself.

In terms of a nonclinical career, this is a wonderful way to at least define that space in which you're going to create something. Even if it is working for someone else, you at least have your own space. And that's something important to teach physicians, because when I first founded SoMeDocs, the purpose of it for me was that it was going to be done in a way that did not have anyone telling me what to do. I was going to make the rules. And I think to me, that's part of what's broken about with healthcare is that so many people were telling me what to do, that as a physician, it was frustrating. I literally could not treat my patient the way I felt he or she needed to be treated.

And so, in the same similar way, I think that branding is super important because we create our own brand, our own space online. Again, I don't want to go into the medicine part of it, but even within medicine, branding is huge because you can literally work for a hospital today. So, your brand exists within the overarching system, but tomorrow, if you're fired, you could literally pick up your brand and you could put it over here in a different hospital system where you're going to work as well. But all the intellectual property, all the content that you yourself create along the way that you own, it goes with you. So, it doesn't matter at the end of the day who you're working for, you've got a brand online that's stamped out for yourself.

John: And that brand, in a way, it should be authentic, and it should actually represent who you are and what your principles are, what your vision is. Those kinds of things.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Well, yes, it would be great, but actually now that you're asking it, it depends on the angle you're looking at it. It depends. If you are looking to build a product, you would probably strategically go about that in a different way than if you are branding yourself as a human being. The reason I distinguish that is because, for example, if your brand is going to be a physician brand where you're literally sitting behind a white coat and just lecturing on headaches as a neurologist, that's okay, that's a great brand and it's needed out there.

But when you say authentic, you should always be authentic, but you're not necessarily going to chit-chat about, I don't know, taking like a bathroom break. You're still being authentic, but you're certainly being strategic about what you're putting out there. I think that's what's important is we do need to be authentic that we're out there, but you have to also be smart about the things that you're creating.

And so, yeah, that's important to say. But yes, brands like yours and like mine, yes, we should be authentic because we want to earn people's trust. And in order to do that, we do want to be the same both online and when we are attending conferences where we want to speak. You don't want people saying, "Well, she or he was totally different live than they were online." But again, it depends. It's all about strategy and it's about things that I teach and I cover.

John: Well, I'm just thinking about too, where let's say I look at other podcasters have been out there, and so then I started a podcast thinking this was a good idea, but the thing was, I shouldn't probably just try to copy what someone else is doing. Oh, they're successful, so I want to be just like that.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Absolutely not.

John: So, it's like bringing my own self to that brand.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Oh, I'm huge about that. I think that it serves a purpose to look at others. I think that it helps you sort of build foundation. It helps you to just validate that what you're doing works. But there's 100% nothing wrong with being authentic. And I think there's 100% everything right in it. And that's what I'm about, is just being unique and original. And if I listened to the haters and the naysayers and the people that told me 10 years ago when I said this was what I was going to do, if I had listened to them, then I would not be where I was today. I decided to push past it and say, "Well, I'm going to create it." First of all, it absolutely exists.

Even if you don't understand it, that doesn't mean that it won't work. It was something I knew would work because in my head it made sense as the future. And I was like, "I'm going to tap into, and I'm going to literally be a physician in the space that gets it and that builds into the space, a niche that is like a gap." It's like a void that we need to fill. And so I've filled it despite people telling me no, and I've done it uniquely and originally. So yes, I think there is value to looking at other people who have done things before you to pave the way, but it's 100% wonderful to do it your own way authentically.

John: Okay. I think that the people that are watching and listening are going to say, "Okay, some of us are very practical." You've been successful. People are like, "Well, you've come out of nowhere. You're a wonderful writer, you're a wonderful photographer." Can you give specific examples of things that you have done to promote your brand or other people that you've worked with in terms of how they promoted? Maybe they did it differently than you've done it, but I think the people that are watching this will just like to hear examples of practical things too.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Yeah. There are steps along the way. Absolutely. I think what you're talking about is sort of more of the marketing. And so, the sort of implementation of the strategic plan of how to make your brand go viral and be a brand that people want to see, want to hear, want to buy, whatever it is that your endpoint goal is.

And so, again, there's steps to that process. Once you've created your brand, you've decided where you want to go and the goal of that brand, that's where you need to market yourself and find really, really clever ways to get out there and reach the target audience that you're trying to reach and draw them in so that they want to see more Dr. Corriel or they want to be a part of SoMeDocs.

I could literally talk for hours about it. It's so dependent on what you want to do, but I'll just give a quick example in that there are many ways to market yourself nowadays because there are so many apps that meet endpoint users. And so, you take something like Facebook, you take something like Twitter, you take something like Instagram. They each have their demographic audience. And so, first you have to determine that. Then you have to determine how to frame your content in a way that appeals to them, that makes them think, "Well, I want to hear more from her, or I really want to buy her deodorant or her scrubs", or whatever it is that you are trying to get people to do.

With physicians, a lot of times it is thought leadership. And so, we are more cerebral. We want people to follow us as thought leaders. And so, talking about us as intellectual property and about topics that we cover is usually something that really resonates with a physician, but there's tons of physicians out there that are trying to be entrepreneurs. And so, that's a different way of thinking about things as well. Whether it's a service that you sell or it's an actual product that you make. Again, things SoMeDocs would love to bring to light. Me especially, I'm a physician that turned on entrepreneur. Like I said, I stopped clinical medicine and I'm totally exploring entrepreneurship and I am marketing my own brand, Dr. Corriel, just as much as I'm marketing my company SoMeDocs.

John: Well, I think one of the questions that came up on the chat was a question about what are the steps. And I'm taking it, there's probably no real steps the way you're going to do this. I'm just trying to think in my own career, I'm focusing on promoting and supporting physicians looking for nonclinical careers. So it's like, okay, what are the different ways I can do that? How do I present myself in a way? I'm basically doing what a lot of physician coaches do which kind of ties really into what physicians do, which is help people.

Dr. Dana Corriel: For sure.

John: I'm just finding my own way of helping people within the field of this nonclinical career search.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Right.

John: But I bet that would be a very long story to go through what all the steps might be.

Dr. Dana Corriel: It is, it is.

John: You've already touched on it, so maybe you can expound a little bit if someone's thinking of starting something new, how they kind of conceptualize a brand.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Yeah. It is a long, long process, which is again, why at the end of this, we'll put a link down, but which is why I am now starting these what's called Growth Pods. It's a perfect opportunity to say that. A Growth Pod is a virtual sort of space and interactive group that you grow your brand with.

At this point I'm so busy I just can't easily hop on with individual physicians to help them to focus in on their brand because it takes a while to figure that out if you really want to do it the right way. And so, I've created these really small physician groups of 20 at a time, and literally, you can imagine like a pod, almost like a planter. And the physicians are like the seedlings inside. And then myself or at some point a group of physicians, since I will need to bring others in as the demand is high, we will be watering these pods in order to grow the plants each with its own branch.

And that's the beauty of a Growth Pod. And again, I've made up Growth Pod, it's almost like a cross between a masterclass and an incubator. And so, you water the plant by starting to ask the questions that are necessary for you to figure out, "Well, what am I doing or where do I want to go with my brand?" And there's a lot of questions in between that you need to figure out before you realize the direction in which you're taking it.

It took me a really long time. This is not something that happens overnight, but it certainly helps to have somebody from the outside who has done it and done it successfully to ask you the questions that you need to get thinking and especially thinking outside the box. Because again, you could do it the way others have done it, but what's really going to stand out is if you do it differently.

And if you think about it, think of, for example, drinks, like water. You could sell water, but when you have the bottles just sitting there, something's got to differentiate your bottle from the other bottles. I saw this somewhere in an imagery in an article. You have Perrier. It's like the classy water. And that's what you think about when you want to drink Perrier. And then you've got VOSS. VOSS is that long bottle, the expensive bottle, and it's like glass. Then you've got the new recyclable ones made of paper or whatever. You know what I'm talking about? JUST Water, it's called. I know the guy, he's the CEO. But JUST Water. That's got to shtick too. You want to help the environment.

Again, your brand's got to be different than the other brands. It's not enough to say "I'm a podcaster." John Jurica has got to be the podcaster that everyone listens to, but you've got to figure out what it is about you that makes you super cool and that makes you someone that people want to listen to. And that's going to market, that's going to market you and your brand.

John: Well, I'm a big fan of mastermind groups and accountability partners, coaches, mentors, nurturing. We can be sitting in our silo trying to figure out what our brand should be and come up with these ideas. But really, is this an opportunity with the Growth Pod for people to kind of bounce ideas and to share and get your feedback? How is that going to work?

Dr. Dana Corriel: Yeah, absolutely. The first one that I'm launching is just me, teaching it and holding it. And so, what I've done until now is just personally gotten on calls with physicians and connected and helped people grow. But at this point I think that a small group setting is much more valuable because it's me at the helm. I'm there to toss out the questions and to teach, but at the end of the day, it adds value that there are 19 other physicians with you helping you to grow. First of all, because you grow together. Secondly, because you bounce ideas off of each other. Thirdly, because I always say this is that I am an N equals 1. I am not the end all be all. I have my own ideas, but we have so much value in networking.

And so, the pot allows you to not only network, do it together, do it in a supportive, collaborative way, just like SoMeDocs stands for, but then also make it super exciting so that if the pod is successful for you, you could actually take another one. Whether it's the same one because no two pods are going to be the same or take one that's completely different because I have some in the works and I know John knows about that. That is going to help us nurture in more ways than just branding and understanding the different outlets in which we can market our brand.

John: Can you tell us a little bit about how that is going to happen? Is it telephone calls? Is it face-to-face? Is it online? Is it written?

Dr. Dana Corriel: The first one is launching soon. And it's going to be a combination of a group interaction at your own disposal. The nice thing about this is it's going to last four weeks at a time each pod. You as the guest, you are going to check in whenever you want, whenever you have time, which is why this is going to work. You could literally be sitting at the comfort of your own home between breaks or after dinner when the kids go to sleep and you could do your work.

And it's not going to be work. The whole point is that a lot of it is extreme fun. And that's the nice thing about it. It's almost like attending a really high value conference, but you're doing it virtually. You're doing it online. And so, I'm excited.

John: Excellent. So, how do we find out more about that? What's the quickest way? I know we can go to drcorriel.com.

Dr. Dana Corriel: drcorriel.com is my own brand. I focus less on that. I do talk about my experience as a growing entrepreneur and talk a little bit about SoMeDocs, but you could go to somedocs.com or doctorsonsocialmedia.com. And first of all, there's membership options, which are awesome because once you've got your brand, or even if you don't, there's so many perks to signing up. It's all listed there. It would be too many for me to say, but you also actually get a discount for the Growth Pod and the Growth Pod is there. It's under the resources which I'm actually actively and slowly growing in terms of just quality resources for physicians to exist as brands and to use the online spaces that are out there.

John: There is another question since we still have some time here to talk about how social media fits in and how to best use them. And before you answer the question, the thing I've heard many people say is don't do everything at once. But beyond that, what do you think about Facebook and LinkedIn and IG and all that?

Dr. Dana Corriel: They're extremely valuable. So, what do I think? I don't like them. I think they're terrible actually, and a danger for our youth. But what am I going to do? It's here. It's here to stay. It's a double-edged sword. Let's find the right edge of the sword and let's stay on it as smart healthcare professionals and let's start to leverage it. Let's start to fight with, let's start to use it as a weapon in our favor. And so let's speak out with evidence-based medical truths. Let's make our brands work. And 100% social media is going to help you to achieve that. Why? Simple. Because everyone's on it.

And so, that's sort of like the 101 of marketing. It's like you want to go where people are. If you think about the way that media has always been, the top magazines and newspapers work really well because they've got a large following in a large audience. Essentially you can do that on social media. It doesn't have to be a personal thing. And that's what scares doctors is "I don't want to put me out there." You don't have to. And that's where we go back to that, you are not being authentic, but sometimes you have to really strategically choose what you want to share with the world.

And so, I'm extremely present online. My SoMeDocs is now my number one thing. That doesn't mean that I'm going to tell people everything about the way I live or every little secret of mine. Absolutely not. In fact, I encourage people not to give away everything in your personal lives because we've all read, we don't really need to read it. We know that the online is also a source of a lot of depression and things like that because you're going to throw stuff out there to strangers.

John: You got to be careful.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Yeah. The people that really matter are your family, the people in real life. Of course, the people out there matter as well. To me, for sure. But in terms of putting yourself out there, you've got to be strategic about what you do, in a good way. You got to be strategic about spreading evidence-based medicine. At the end of the day, this is what I'm trying to do with SoMeDocs.

John: Well, yeah, and it seems like every type of social media has certain pros and cons, good for one thing, not good for another and one is better than the other. There's a question about how you might use or how you network on LinkedIn, do you use LinkedIn to network. I have a bunch of followers or connections on LinkedIn, but in terms of networking with them, I have my own approach to it, but do you have any thoughts or feelings about using LinkedIn as one of those sites?

Dr. Dana Corriel: I don't want to say every, because there are so many apps out there when I go to conferences to teach and I show the graphic of just how many social media platforms there are, it boggles the mind. But I really do know how to very efficiently use most of the major social media platforms. I've done that on purpose. I've taken my time and been patient about learning to do a dabbling in it. And so, now I really know how to use them. Absolutely. I use LinkedIn.

The key is to really leverage it to what you are trying to achieve and to re-angle it in a way that fits your purpose and your cause. And so, that's the key to really being a successful brand and to marketing it, it's just finding that unique angle. And that's again, where you need, I don't like to call it a coach, but where you need something like a Growth Pod where your hand is held to some degree by someone who's either done it before or is really good at it and can think outside the box.

John: Okay. Yeah. It's going to be very specific to what you're doing.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Yeah.

John: I would say though, in general, when I have connections on LinkedIn and I reach out, they usually respond. And you go from there. If you've made a connection and you've got something that might help them, to me it's always about helping them first and then you develop that rapport.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Absolutely. It's always about that. At the end of the day, if you're going to be successful, you've got to realize that the person on the other end has got something that they want. And there's something so negative for some reason in our society about everybody sort of wanting something. It's like we shouldn't ever want. And yet everyone always wants everything you do has an endpoint goal. Even when you are, for example, donating something. You're wanting to feel good by donating. And so, at the end of the day, we're always getting something for what we do. To approach an interaction, especially a business interaction, in which you think of the other person first and see where it fits into your goals is extremely clever in terms of entrepreneurship, in my opinion.

John: Well, I like what you said earlier too about, as we're making these connections, it's really about collaborating and trying to develop this kind of little mini partnerships with people and whatever it's doing.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Always.

John: And you may not work closely with somebody, but a year from now, there may be some time when your path crosses.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Oh, absolutely. It's funny you say that because everyone's got naysayers. I don't necessarily see them. I think I've been fairly positive. I've had a lot of support, but I know that they're out there. At the end of the day, as an entrepreneur, something that really helps me succeed is just being respectful of everyone, regardless of how they act. That doesn't mean I'm always happy with the way people act, but you've got to always respect your fellow entrepreneurs because down the line they may be acting different. So, you've got to just be nice, respect.

John: I was reading a book recently, I won't even say what it was, but he was a speaker. One of the things this person did was a speaker and he was trying to figure out how people got the most speaking gigs. And he said it turned out the guys and women that got the most gigs were the ones who were nicest to the people that were planning the meetings. They didn't like working with jerks and they would work with people that are nice and that want to collaborate. And it was a pleasant experience. So yeah, that always goes a long way.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Totally.

John: All right. I think we've discussed this for a while. Do you want to go ahead and give some more information and any last comments in terms of what you're doing with the pods and where people should go to find you and other last bits of advice?

Dr. Dana Corriel: Yeah. First of all, I think there's a lot. If you actually enjoy this conversation, there's so much more where this came from. I am 100% of an idea person and every day, no joke, I get hundreds of ideas. And I try to really just all put them together in content pieces and put them out there, whether they're written or images.

I also try to do that with doctors because I realized that that was something I was talented in. And that's what SoMeDocs is for, is to help with networking and to also help with actual content creation. So if you like the way that I do it, that's how SoMeDocs work. We take your content and we put it out there for you. And we serve as a platform by which you can bounce your ideas off of, both in a physician only setting in a Facebook group and in public.

And in terms of opportunities, with SoMeDocs, there's a free platform. I'm always going to keep that free. But then there's paid options, like membership, it's very affordable.

John: I think we hit most of the questions here.

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Best First Resources to Use Before You Start Your Nonclinical Career Journey

John Jurica — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 12:45:08 +0000

Exploit These Free and Low-Cost Tools – Episode 322

In today's episode, John dives into a treasure trove of the best first resources for physicians to access when seeking to transition into a nonclinical career.

He covers a range of tools and guidance. They range from a comprehensive website to a nudge in the right direction, this episode is a starting point for your nonclinical career journey.

Our Episode Sponsor

This week's episode sponsor is the From Here to There: Leveraging Virtual Medicine Program from Sandrow Consulting.

Are you ready to say goodbye to burnout, take control of your schedule, increase your earnings, and enjoy more quality time with your family? You’re probably wondering how to do that without getting a new certification or learning a whole new set of nonclinical skills.

Here's the answer: The quickest way to achieve more freedom and joy is to leverage virtual medicine.

Dr. Cherisa Sandrow and I discussed this in Podcast Episode 266. Cherisa and her team are now preparing to relaunch their comprehensive program for building and running your own telehealth business.

If you want to learn the tools and skills you need to live life on your own terms – then you should check it out today. After completing the 10-week program, you’ll be ready to take your career to the next level.

The program starts soon, and there are a limited number of openings. To help you get a glimpse into the program, Sandrow Consulting is offering a series of FREE Webinars. Go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/freedom to sign up and learn why telehealth is the quickest way to begin your career journey.

Our Show Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete.

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Other Best First Resources to Help You

In this session, John provides an overview of fundamental resources for clinicians exploring nonclinical careers. He starts with books that address the process of career change head-on:

John recommends several podcasts and online communities. They provide practical advice, real-life career change stories, and platforms for networking:

Docs Outside the Box Podcast with Dr. Nii Darko
Career Rx Podcast with Dr. Marjorie Stiegler
Doctors Changing Medicine Podcast with Dr. Nneka Unachkwu
BootstrapMD – Physician Entrepreneurs Podcast with Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
Physician Nonclinical Career Hunters Facebook Group
Physician Side Gigs Facebook Group
Alternative Careers for Doctors Facebook Group
Remote Careers for Physicians Facebook Group

In addition to these resources, John mentions SEAK, an organization dedicated to teaching physicians about nonclinical careers. SEAK offers online courses, books, and an annual conference. The annual conference held in Chicago in October serves as a comprehensive resource for career changers, featuring informative lectures and face-to-face access to dozens of expert mentors.

Other Online Resources

John also touches on the emerging trend of physician coaching, recommending the website physiciancoaches.com, which provides a directory of physician coaches in various specialties.

There are also useful websites such as Doctors Crossing, by Dr. Heather Fork, and Dr. Heidi Moawad's website Non Clinical Doctors.

Lastly, John reminds us of online summits like the one offered by NewScript in April called the Nonclinical Career Summit. The annual Summit provides free live access to 12 lectures over 3 evenings at no cost. Afterward, the recordings are available for lifetime access for a small fee. The 2023 lectures are still available at the NewScript Nonclinical Career Summit website.

Summary

John explores an array of resources for physicians navigating their transition into nonclinical and nontraditional careers. These resources encompass everything from in-depth conferences to online summits and physician coaching services. It's a comprehensive guide for those embarking on their journey to nontraditional medical careers.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

Pivot by Jenny Blake (Amazon affiliate link)
Do You Feel Like You Wasted All That Training? by Michael McLaughlin (Amazon affiliate link)
Physicians' Pathways to Non-Traditional Careers and Leadership Opportunities, edited by Richard D. Urman and Jesse M. Ehrenfeld (Amazon affiliate link)
50 Nonclinical Careers for Physicians, by Dr. Sylvie Stacy (Amazon affiliate link)
Nonclinical Physicians Website
Physician Coaching Directory
Physician Nonclinical Career Hunters
Physician Side Gigs
Doctors Crossing by Heather Fork
Non Clinical Doctors by Dr. Heidi Moawad
From Here to There: Leveraging Virtual Medicine Telehealth Program by Sandrow Consulting
NewScript Nonclinical Career Summit website
NewScr!pt

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Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 322

Best First Resources to Use Before You Start Your Nonclinical Career Journey

John: This is the fourth session. I'm trying to be real consistent and do these every week at the same time. I was thinking about what I would talk about today if we didn't have a lot of questions. In the future, I'll try to come prepared with questions from those that are being sent by email or posted in NewScript. Otherwise, we can take questions during the session.

But today what I want to talk about is just an overview of some of the basic resources for clinicians who are looking to change careers. I'm going to focus on careers today. In NewScript, of course, we talk about a lot of different things from burnout to self-limiting beliefs, to starting a small business, to finding something else to do part-time. Today, I'm just going to look at some resources that are focused mainly for physicians that are applicable to those early in the process of career change.

I'm going back a few years because I've done some podcasts and I've written some blog posts on some of these issues. And the resources that I generally talk about are books and maybe courses. I don't think I'm going to touch on any courses today. Mostly low cost resources, podcasts that have been out there for a while, and other resources that I've come across.

I'm just going to get started with the books. Now, oddly enough, the first resource I'm going to talk about is not really geared to specifically clinicians or even physicians. But it's a book called "Pivot: The Only Move That Matters Is Your Next One." It's a book by Jenny Blake. It's been out for a few years. She might even have a second edition out. I'm not sure. I don't think so.

But I found that the model that she walks through for finding and pursuing your first major job when you've been, let's say, in a profession for a while, it's a really good model. It addresses some of the mindset issues. It talks about how to plant yourself first and doing assessment, things like your interest, your passions, and also something that you're good at, which in our case, most of the members in NewScript are good at very, very many things. But I do recommend that.

And by the way, I'm going to go through a lot of these resources today. I'm not going to type these in the chat as we go. But what I'll do is I'll put everything that I mentioned today just on a one page resource, and I'll send it basically to everybody. I'll just go into NewScript and I'll do a post out to everybody. And attached with that post will be this list of resources that I talk about today.

I like that book. Most of the books I'm going to talk about, I have copies of here to show you. And the video that we're doing today will of course be recorded and there'll be a replay. So you can look at the video, but I don't have all the books to show you because some of them, I have an only electronic version of it. That's the first one I want to mention.

The second one is another one that's been out a long time. And again, I can show you this one. I think it was the first one that I ever purchased and read by Michael McLaughlin. It's called "Do You Feel Like You Wasted All That Training? Questions From Doctors Considering a Career Change." It's actually written in a format of questions and answers. It's literally about 150 pages of questions and answers. Everything from the results of considering a career change, the emotional, the feelings that can engender in you and then where to look for options and so forth. It's a little bit dated, but again, I'll put that in the list, but it's a good one.

If you look up the name of the authors on these, you'll find these books. For the first one, if you look up Jenny Blake, you'll be able to find her book. They're all on Amazon. If you look up Michael McLaughlin, you'll find his book. So, that's a good one. That's a Q&A and that's a general one for physicians. That's why it's really good. It addresses not doing a specific career. He has a LinkedIn group, I believe. I think it's called PNR. Anyway, if you look up in LinkedIn, Nonclinical Careers, you'll come up with his LinkedIn group. It's been there for a while and there's a little bit of activity there.

Then another one, it's been around a long time, and it's also a little different in the sense that it's a little more of an academic approach, but with specific jobs. And they're split up in a more, like a university would kind of look at career transition for physicians and other clinicians. And it's called "Physicians' Pathways to Non-Traditional Careers and Leadership Opportunities." I think this one is a little less practical but it's still useful and it can give you some good ideas. I'll put that on the list.

Now, the other one that I don't have a physical copy of, but I've read it online. It's like an Amazon version of the book called "Careers Beyond Clinical Medicine", and it's by Heidi Moawad. If you look up Heidi Moawad, she's the one that went from clinical to a nonclinical job over a decade ago, maybe two decades. And she is a neurologist. She's one of the early people I talked to about going into a utilization management or case management type position. And so, again, if you look up her name, you'll find that she talks about specific careers. She did a lot of personal research. The book I mentioned before, the more academic one actually has multiple authors because each chapter's by somebody different. But Heidi Moawad, again, she's kind of seen as an icon. She also has a website called Nonclinical Doctors. But if you look up Heidi Moawad on Amazon, you'll find her book. It has some really good insights and a list of types of careers, which you can also find on her website.

And then kind of the more recent one that I consider the Bible of nonclinical careers now is the one by Sylvie Stacy, "50 Nonclinical Careers for Physicians." This is about as complete as you're going to get that has a list of the most common nonclinical careers. And she covers some areas that many of us don't touch on very often like jobs and government as a whole section on jobs and government, and a section on public health, which includes the CDC level and NIH and other government jobs. And then the state public health, and then the local county public health and everything in between.

But she has it broken down by insurance companies, hospitals and health systems, consulting jobs, medical writing, marketing and advertising. She even addresses some of the radio personalities, TV personalities. Everything is sort of described in there, some estimates of what the income would be, which are probably not that accurate just because even within a year or two these things get dated.

But it's definitely one that if you're looking for a simple low cost resource. You don't have to read the whole book, you just look in those sections that are pertinent. And the thing about this is, it was published by the American Association for Physician Leadership. You can get it there or I think you can get it on Amazon as well.

Sylvie Stacy used to run the Look for Zebras website, which she has since sold that had a lot of the same information, which has now been compiled into this book, which was published at least three or four years ago now.

I usually promote or mention a couple of other books of friends of mine, colleagues, who are actually both podcasters as well, and are well-known in the nonclinical career arena. One is called "The Positioned Physician." I have a copy, but I don't have it handy. It's by Michael Woo-Ming. You might know him better as again, a podcaster. And if you look up "The Positioned Physician", you'll see that he has a second edition out.

And it's really more about setting up either a cash only medical company, or clinic, and also starting a consulting or coaching business. And it goes through there and it talks about some of the practical things from the standpoint of business, but also some of the mental hoops to jump through before you do something like that. And as I said, he updated it just a couple years ago. The newest edition is out and it's not expensive.

The other one is by Dr. Andrew Wilner called "The Locum Life." And it's specifically for those who are looking to go into locum tenens work as an alternative to typical clinical work. Now, obviously it is clinical, just as Mike Woo-Ming's book talks about opening an aesthetic or weight loss clinic that's also clinical. But obviously, they're clinical in a way that basically avoids the issue of dealing with an office, dealing with billing, dealing with working for a large corporate structure.

As a locums doctor, you technically may often do that, but you're kind of at arm's length. You don't get involved in the politics. You usually get paid more because they're struggling to fill those slots and it's usually obviously a temporary position. That's another book that I would recommend.

Now the other thing I want to talk about is some other resources that are not books. Here are some of the podcasts that I would recommend you consider besides watching or listening to my podcast. Docs Outside the Box is interesting. It's not always about careers, but there's a lot about careers in there. And it started, oh, good six or seven years ago. A lot of episodes where he is interviewing people doing interesting things with their careers.

The other would be the Career Rx with Marjorie Stiegler. That is a really good one. Lot of advice and a lot about pharma because that's the industry that Marjorie is now working in. She is an anesthesiologist, but she's now working mostly in pharma and then producing the podcast. And she has several courses, which can be of benefit as well.

The other one I would mention is EntreMD by Nneka Unachukwu. She's been on my podcast two or three times. She has maybe more things, but if you look up Dr. Una, you'll find everything that she does. And she has some courses and she focuses more on enhancing your income of your practice, improving your practice, and then also nonclinical non-practice based businesses and so forth. She's really dedicated to helping physicians and other clinicians thrive and overcome burnout by just doing something that they love. And then I would also mention the podcast BootstrapMD, which is Mike Woo-Ming's podcast.

Sometimes when I'm talking about this topic, I'll mention coaches. There are a lot of coaches out there now, a lot of physician coaches who coach physicians. It's very popular, but it's in high demand as well. And I think that the coaches that I know the best are really either full or not really doing one-on-one coaching anymore because they just have converted to doing group coaching and courses and things. Because it's an easier way to leverage that instead of going one by one. But there are many individual physician coaches.

And there is a company or an online resource run by Mike Woo-Ming called physiciancoaches.com, which has about 300 or 400 physician coaches in there doing different types of coaching. If you want to look somewhere where you can go through and see what type of coaching they do, what their background is, what their experience is, for most of the coaches, there's that kind of information. I would suggest that.

There are Facebook groups, of course, that are dedicated to this. And there's actually probably a lot more now than what I'm fully aware of, but I know that Laura McCain's group, Physician Nonclinical Career Hunters, PNC Hunters. Physician Nonclinical Career Hunters. I used to be an admin for her for that group until a couple of years ago. I know that it has over 20,000 members. It's fairly active, which is nice because in the smaller groups sometimes there aren't any posts for quite a while. Between herself and the people in there, they're always asking questions. And then there's a lot of coaches that will jump into that. So, if you're not in Physician Nonclinical Career Hunters Facebook group, I suggest you consider joining it.

You can always go to Facebook and use some kind of a pseudonym. You don't have to put in information that will expose your identity to at least the members that are in the group. Now at the Facebook level, you might have to put information in there so that they'll have it, but at least it won't be out to the public. There are many people in that group that have strange kind of pseudonyms. So, that's one way to get around that issue. But there's a lot of information there. And Laura also posts things in there as files that you can access.

Nisha Mehta has Physician Side Gigs, which has been around a long time, and it's probably got close to 100,000 members. It's a very diverse group. I think it seems to be more dedicated to women, but either way it doesn't really matter. There's all that information there. So you can check that out. There's another group called Alternative Careers for Doctors. There's one by Jonathan Vitale called Remote Careers for Physicians. As its name implies, he and his members, which I don't know, I think it's well over 10,000 members now talk about mostly remote careers, but that could be a lot of things. I think the vast majority in that group are dedicated to utilization management type, insurance jobs for insurance companies, payers of various sorts. But it's a good one. It's pretty active and a lot of ideas come out of that.

There's a lot of resources on Heather Fork's website, Doctors Crossing. A lot of freebies that are very useful. Lists of let's say UM companies. I think that's it as far as the basics. So you've got your podcasts, you've got your books, you've got your websites of the coaches that I mentioned today.

Those are the main basic resources for those that are just getting started that need something to get them going. Of course, when you're in NewScript, you can post a question about anything and somebody will generally answer. And so, I guess that's all I wanted to talk about today.

All right, I see there's a question here about SEEK. It's very apropos, very timely, and I think the others who listened to the replay may benefit from that. In fact, it was funny because I had interviewed Dr. Savi Chadha, who's an MSL, and his posts, his interview is going to be posted this coming Tuesday. And he mentioned at some point in that interview that he was a faculty for SEEK, and basically he serves as a mentor at SEEK.

SEEK is an organization that is actually dedicated to teaching mostly physicians about nonclinical careers. And it kind of dates back to the very early days, way before I started my podcast. And in fact I used one of the SEEK meetings as a way to identify guests for the podcast, because what SEEK does is they produce online, and it used to be on CDs and tapes, booklets and so forth, but they produce these courses for physicians in particular who are looking to switch to a nonclinical job.

I don't know the backstory completely, but it is run by two or three partners, father and son, and another partner. They're all attorneys. And I think they got into it because they were getting involved in teaching physicians how to become expert witnesses, which was like a really awesome part-time job. Most people that are expert witnesses, of course, don't quit practice because usually they can't work as expert witnesses after that. There's a few exceptions to that.

Anyway, then they started doing courses on becoming an expert witness, and some of those are really awesome. They also created a large directory of expert witnesses that you can pay to be in, and they will send you business because other attorneys buy that manual.

But one of the major parts of their whole enterprise is this annual SEEK meeting, which is every October in the Chicago area. For people that know Chicago, it's in Rosemont at one of the big conference centers. It's not downtown Chicago, but it's actually relatively close to O'Hare Airport for those that fly in. But I live close enough that I can drive to it.

Anyway, the way it is structured, the main part is two days, and you have a big plenary session at the beginning. Everybody's in the room. There's some big name so to speak who speaks on a topic about looking for a new nonclinical career. I went there as a participant, not as a mentor or a presenter, but I've been there twice as a participant, mainly to meet the people that were doing the presentations. And the presentations are very good. They're like 40 minutes each, 40 minutes to an hour. And you have back-to-back lectures going on.

You've probably gotten the same flyer that I have, and I think they do one session at a time, so you don't have to choose. There might be some concurrent sessions going on, but while they're doing the sessions, like I said, it is over two days. They'll cover a good 20 topics more or less in pretty good detail.

You'll have some talking about how to go into consulting, how to become a UM physician advisor for an insurance company or a medical director, how to do expert witness work, what kind of jobs are there in pharma, and so on and so forth. So, it's actually a good resource. And you get a booklet with the slides from everybody, and usually each person's going to give you some resources like where to find the job.

It's not necessarily for someone who has a particular job in mind, because you'll probably only have one or two hours devoted to that. Let's say you want to go into pharma. But if you're still at the beginning and you're really trying to sort through what your options might be, and they'll oftentimes get into the salaries and they'll get into how would you apply for this job? How would you prepare for the job, and so forth? So, it's a really good intro.

It is going to be held in October and it might be worth it. You come away with a lot of information. And the other thing that I should mention before I let you go is that during the conference they have mentors. There's at least 40 mentors. That means people like Laura McCain and I don't know if Heather Fork still does it, but she used to do it. Michelle Reilly used to do it. And Tom Davis, my partner in NewScript, he used to do it. I don't think he's going this year.

There's a lot of pretty big names, people that have written books, some of the books I've mentioned. I think Heidi maybe has been there before. Like I said, that's where I went to get some guests. There's a lot of information. You get to sign up to sit down with each of these mentors for 15 minutes. It's really quick. And you're trying to squeeze these things in with the other let's say a hundred or so participants or attendees. You're going to the live ones, during breaks you're all trying to get into the mentors and sometimes you have to skip one or two of the lectures if you want, or maybe skip all of them on a given day so you can sit down with each of the different mentors, pick their brains about the jobs that they do or what they're talking about.

And so, I don't get any compensation for promoting it. I tend not to promote it actively very much anymore, but it's there and it's the only one like it that I'm aware of. And now here at NewScript, of course, we did a summit last April and we're probably going to do this again next April, which is an online kind of a version of that, but it doesn't have the mentorship, which is really a big piece of that conference. It'd almost be worth it being able to commiserate with 40 or 50 mentors while you're there.

I hope that's helpful. If you have any questions about that, you can contact me in NewScript or send me an email.

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How to Market Your Surgical and Nonsurgical Careers Like a Pro – 321

John Jurica — Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:35:07 +0000

Interview with Dr. David Geier

In today's episode, Dr. David Geier explains how to market yourself using a combination of social media posts and public speaking. David is an orthopedic sports medicine specialist who recently added integrative medicine to his clinical practice.

Dr. Geier first appeared on our podcast in August 2018, in Episode 49, as a groundbreaking orthopedic surgeon and sports medicine specialist. Since then, he's continued to innovate and has recently embarked on new clinical endeavors.

Our Episode Sponsor

This week's episode sponsor is the From Here to There: Leveraging Virtual Medicine Program from Sandrow Consulting.

Here's the answer: The quickest way to achieve more freedom and joy is to leverage virtual medicine.

Our Show Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete.

Surgical Career Evolution: Beyond Social Media

In the world of medicine, staying connected with patients and colleagues through social media has become increasingly important. Dr. David Geier, a seasoned medical professional, has masterfully harnessed the power of social media to enhance his medical practice. These are the strategies he employed to leverage social media effectively.

Content Creation and Engagement with AI
One of Dr. Geier's standout strategies is content creation. He recognized that a consistent flow of engaging content is vital to reach and retain an online audience. To streamline this process, he embraced AI tools, such as Copy.ai, to generate ideas for blog posts and content. By doing so, he ensured a regular output of valuable information for his followers.
Making Medical Information Accessible
He emphasizes the importance of making medical information accessible to a broader audience. Understanding that complex medical jargon can alienate the average person, he opts for clarity and simplicity. His content resonates with his target audience on social media.
Sharing Medical Advances and Insights
Dr. Geier doesn't stop at content creation. He uses social media to discuss advancements in the medical field. By sharing these insights, he positions himself as an informed and forward-thinking medical professional in the eyes of his audience.
Observing Trends
In addition to sharing his insights, David actively observes and acts on trends in medicine and social media. He observed the growth of integrative and functional medicine, as well as the growth in AI. This led to his making major strategic decisions about his practice and in his marketing efforts.

Shift to Preventive Medicine & Non-Surgical Care

David shared valuable insights on transitioning from a traditional medical practice to his focus on preventive medicine and non-surgical approaches. He emphasized the importance of staying well-informed about the latest research and treatments, as well as maintaining a strong commitment to patient care.

Embrace innovation and leverage technology, such as AI, for tasks like content creation. – David Geier, MD

Summary

To connect with David, visit his website at drdavidgeier.com. You can reach out to him via the contact form on his site. You can also find him on various social media platforms under the handle “drdavidgeier,” including X, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook, where he enthusiastically engages with fellow physicians venturing into podcasting and video creation.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 321

How to Market Your Surgical and Nonsurgical Careers Like a Pro

- Interview with Dr. David Geier

John: Today's guest first appeared on the podcast here in August of 2018. That was episode 49. That was a long time ago, and he was quite a groundbreaker then in terms of he was using social media, he had a podcast. He was using other platforms basically to market himself and his business and his practice. But since then, he has continued to do new things, break new ground and even sort of shifted his clinical activity a little bit. I definitely wanted to get today's guest back to the podcast. So with that, Dr. David Geier, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. David Geier: Oh, thanks for having me. I cannot believe it's been that long. I did remember that it was before COVID, but I just did not remember it being five years ago. That's scary how quickly time seems to pass.

John: Well, usually when people say that, it's because they're so busy, that it just goes by like that.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah, that's a good point. Absolutely.

John: Because I know you've been into doing a lot of different things. It's going to be great to hear about it. I don't want to reiterate everything that we said at the last, but give us a little thumbnail of back when you were in practice, why you jumped into social media and why your practice was really a little different from most other orthopedists in terms of connecting with patients. And then we'll get into the more recent stuff.

Dr. David Geier: Well, it was interesting way back in 2008 or so, I was running a sports medicine program at an academic medical center here in Charleston. And anybody that's worked in academics knows I'm trying to build a sports medicine program and I'm trying to work with marketing to get more exposure. We need dollars to get team relationships and various components to help us grow. But in academics, you have to go through all these different layers to then a lot of times get a "no."

But the person that worked that was spearheading musculoskeletal health and the musculoskeletal program at that program talked to me and said, "Hey I think you'd be great at social media." And this is back when really Twitter and Facebook were just starting. And she's like, "You should do a website and you should do Twitter and Facebook." And I had no idea like, "What in the world? I'm a surgeon. I cut on people, I stand on the sidelines at football games." And she's like, "No, I think you'd be great. I hear you talk to people about injuries."

And so, sort of clueless to the whole thing, I was like, "All right, I'll give it a try." Not knowing at all, one, how much time I was going to end up putting into it, but then how much I would enjoy sharing information, not just one-on-one with a patient, but one on a hundred, one on a thousand. Because it could be seen not just by tons of people, obviously, but at different points in time. They didn't have to watch it live. They could see it later. And so many people commented over the years and it ballooned into this thing because so many people went to see a doctor and they tell me, "I had no idea what he said. I didn't understand a word he said or why. That's the only option I had. And so your articles and your videos, or your podcasts like I used to do back then were so helpful."

And it sort of ballooned. You get this positive feedback and then you network with other physicians, in my world, athletic trainers and physical therapists. And it just became this community. And it just took off. It started as a way to grow that sports medicine program, but it very quickly peeled away from that a little bit and it turned into writing a regular newspaper column for the Charleston newspaper. It turned into very, very frequent TV interviews and radio interviews down here. And just so many different opportunities. Honestly, it took on a life of its own and became something that was taking me 20, 30 plus sometimes more hours a week and then I had to sort of navigate those challenges.

But I don't regret it for a minute. I feel proud that I was sort of on the leading edge of that. I will say that I've backed off a little bit. Not completely, we'll talk about that, but there are people that have taken that baton and run. But it was really, really cool that I got into it having literally no idea what I was getting myself into. But it turned into something that quite honestly, not only changed my career, but it changed my life.

John: Yeah. That's awesome. And I remember back in that episode, because I was listening back to it a little while ago, I think you had said at that point you had already done a thousand media presentations or jobs. I guess we're talking about vignettes and when people interview you or do something like that, right?

Dr. David Geier: Yeah. Well, it's probably over 3,500 now because now I'm the chief medical expert for two TV stations here. And I'm on every day, sometimes three, four times a day in recorded segments. But back then when it was one off things reporters would reach out to me. It was a lot of time. I don't regret it. I love communicating and doing interviews in Spokane, Washington and all these places. A lot of things I never would've guessed came of it. It's great. It still is great.

John: One of the questions I always get is, as a quote, whatever it is, as a dermatologist, as an orthopedist, can I really do that kind of thing? And I guess my question to you is, I don't think you're just talking about ortho, you're the resource for at least some of these places just for anything medical. Is that right?

Dr. David Geier: I don't get as much medical, even though I do get more of that now. And we're going to talk about my practice pivot here in a little bit. But I do get a little bit because people see me on TV and as my role as chief medical expert for those two TV stations, I'm talking about all kinds of medical topics. I probably do get more that way. But even online, I still focus primarily on orthopedics and sports medicine. But you're right, and I've heard this from other physicians that are active in social media. Once people become comfortable with you, whether it's watching your videos or reading your articles, it's just natural for them to say, "Hey, by the way, I've got X problem or X condition." And it does sometimes get away from what you do.

I've always found that interesting, that people reach out to physicians they don't even know. But they do know them in a way because they've spent time listening to a podcast, watching their videos, reading their articles. And I think there's something really valuable about that. I hear so many physicians talk about how much time they're going to put into it. But part of the reason so many of us went into medicine is to help people. This is just a different way to do that. It's not that one's better than the other. It's just a different way to reach people and help people.

John: Are you to the point now where so many people are reaching out to you or you're already committed to do these regular interviews or a short speech or something? Are you still promoting yourself in newer ways? Are you doing anything on social media or is that going in another direction? How's that going?

Dr. David Geier: No, that's a great question. Because I'm the king of "Try this, see if it works. If it works, keep doing it. If it doesn't work, bail." There's a whole lot of things that I have done for a little while and stopped. But then there's a lot of things I kept up with. One of my podcasts, the Dr. David Geier show, I think I got to like 420 episodes. Got it up to right close to COVID. And then I just decided "Hey, let's move on."

YouTube has been consistent for me since 2015 or something. I've got close to 100,000 followers. I've been very consistent there. But I've dabbled in a lot of things. I tried TikTok videos for a little while. I tried YouTube shorts and Instagram reels. I might go back to that at some point. It was a lot of work for something I wasn't feeling like I was getting that much out of.

I did try a podcast about a year and a half, two years ago. That was a live show that then I turned into a podcast. And that was a lot of fun to do, especially live. But it was a lot of work and I wasn't feeling like I was getting that. That's when I was trying to promote my new practice mode and it wasn't helping me there. So I sort of scaled that back. I might go back to that because I really like the live interaction that you can do now with live streaming and things.

There's a lot of different things that I've tried, but right now it's focusing YouTube mostly and then the traditional media that I do. I used to put on social media as well, but there gets to a point where if you create so much content, you sort of overwhelm viewers, overwhelm readers. So, I'm sort of cognizant of that too. And I'm on TV so much here locally that if I put that out on Twitter every day or x every day, I drive everybody crazy.

John: Now I know my listeners are going to have these questions, so I'm going to substitute for them. On any of the YouTube stuff, that's kind of your main thing now in terms of connecting with patients and clients and people in general teaching. Are you doing any monetization of YouTube, passive or active or anything like that?

Dr. David Geier: I do. And I will say I did resist that for a long time. I had a couple videos on my YouTube channel early, but I really started in earnest really going at it weekly, sometimes more than weekly in 2015. And I probably didn't start monetizing it until maybe 2019, 2020, somewhere in there. And I thought long and hard about it. I grew my channel to 20,000 or 30,000 before I started monetizing it.

And it wasn't as much to make money. I'm not going to lie. I don't get that much from it when you hear these other people that are making tens of thousand a month or more. It is nothing like that. But it was a way, as much as anything, just helped me. I put way more in expenses. You can't see, but I've got a whole TV studio here in this office with four key lights. I've got a hair light, I've got a pre-amp, a DSLR camera, a boom mic. All that stuff costs money. I have a virtual assistant that helps me edit the videos and put captions. All that stuff just costs money.

The amount I get from YouTube every month doesn't come close to covering any of that but it helps a little bit. And honestly, just for a short five second ad at the beginning of videos, even though it's not specific medical advice and I'm very specific about that in my YouTube videos, essentially they are getting advice in the sense, they're getting information about what an injury is. That's a little honestly better than just reading a WebMD article or Mayo Clinic article. I don't feel that bad about it. But again, I went a long time saying, "You know what? I don't want to do that. That's how I justified it. I'm not saying I'm right. That was just my thought process.

John: No, I think it makes sense. Let me ask you then, I shift gears to the speaking, because you're being interviewed, you're doing presentations and so forth. Do you do any paid speaking?

Dr. David Geier: I do keynote speaking. I do have a burnout talk, a physician burnout talk because I've been through that myself. But I don't do any like Pfizer. Well, Pfizer wouldn't be something for orthopedics. But Arthrex sends you out to talk about a surgical technique and implants and stuff. I don't do any of that kind of paid speaking, but I do keynote speeches on burnout or leadership or personal excellence. I'll get a few thousand dollars in travel paid for by some of those.

I don't do a lot of that. I was actually doing a lot right before COVID and then obviously COVID killed the speaking industry. That's starting to open back up but I do it more if it's the right opportunity, not necessarily to make money. Because it's hard to leave your practice and leave your family. Really, if it's a good opportunity with a good audience and an audience that would be receptive, especially to the burnout message, that's why I do it. The fee is more than anything just to sort of reimburse me for the cost and time of leaving my family and practice.

John: Well, you mentioned the burnout and talking about burnout. That kind of intrigued me. Now, I don't remember if your burnout occurred before we spoke last time or since, but tell me just a little bit about that and what do you talk about and what are you noticing now? Because this has been a big issue even before the pandemic. I think it exploded during the pandemic. I'd just like to get your perspective on that.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it was way before we did our podcast. This was back at 2012, 2013. Toward the end of my eight years at that academic medical center. I was working really hard at just trying to build a sports medicine program and run it. Doing all of that work I was talking about social media wise as well sort of on top of that. And then as a lot of us in medicine know, there were a lot of changes going on back then that weren't necessarily what I wanted as a physician. I had a stable OR team and we got this new OR manager that made all the surgeons lives hell. And there was just a lot going on.

So, it was external change compounded with me just running myself into the ground. And I hit this situation where I wasn't sleeping, I wasn't eating well, I wasn't spending time with my kids and I was just miserable. I was getting angry all the time and I couldn't really figure out why.

And I had that awful OR nurse manager. I won't tell the whole story, but sort of opened my eyes that I was the problem. Now to be fair, she was a lot of the problem and she ended up getting fired. But I realized that there was some truth to that, that I was responsible for a lot of this stuff that happened.

And so, I had to make changes to myself that took about 18 months, committing to getting more sleep and committing to saying "no" to a lot of things and committing to delegating stuff that I shouldn't be doing, committing to spending time with my kids no matter what. If that meant not attending faculty meetings so I could go to my kids' soccer game, so be it.

I ended up actually leaving that academic institution about a year later. But it took me a long time to get through that burnout. And to your point, we are seeing more and more even unrelated to COVID. As you are well aware, this started even before COVID. All the electronic medical records changes, the hospital ownership of practice and being pushed to see more patients in less time and having to do more and more of the tasks ourselves as physicians. That to be fair, anybody could do, you don't necessarily need a physician, but that's all time that's on physicians keeping them away from their families and away from hobbies and things.

So it is getting worse, but fortunately there is more of an attention on this now. Not just the physicians and them making their own changes, but I do get the sense that hospitals and these institutions care and are trying to make changes. But it's hard. You got bottom line financial interests and then you've got physician well-being interests and where that balance is, it's not going to be the same at any institution, but that's going to play a large role in what medicine looks like over the next 10 years. I really believe that may drive if it continues the way it's going people out of medicine or like an integrative practice, cash-based practice. Or we're going to get a handle on this and we're going to figure out ways to help physicians be quality physicians, but also have healthy lives.

John: Well, I'm kind of encouraged a little bit that you've noticed at least some more recognition of this. When I've asked other colleagues in the past, like, "Okay, tell me a couple of the hospitals that you're familiar with that have now taken burnout seriously." And it's like a big zero or they started a program and it was trying to teach resilience. And it's like, "Well, I'm already working 18 hours a day. Why being more resilient? How's that going to help?" Those kinds of things.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah. And every institution is different. There's no question. I have absolutely heard what you're talking about when I give speeches and these people come up to me and they're like, God, I left medicine because I experienced the exact. I tell my story and they're like, "I know exactly what you're feeling." And I hear from medical students saying, "I'm really worried this is going to happen to me."

But I do see evidence that it's starting to change. I hear of hospital systems where they spend the money to get scribes for physicians just to help them get out the door before it's dark outside. And there's a variety of different things. A lot more meet and greets. Because I think relationship between physicians, connections and communities and getting to know each other is so important. And I see a lot of hospital systems really working on that. And I think that's a good thing. There are some trying, but as you're saying, yes, there's a long, long way to go.

John: When you're asked to speak on that topic, is it usually a group of doctors? Is it usually a residency? Is it a hospital? What's your experience?

Dr. David Geier: I've never gotten asked by a residency. That's actually really good. It tends to be either medical organization. I did MGMA, the practice managers group not that long ago, which was really good because they're the ones that now will go and implement some of the suggestions I talked about. But a lot of times it's more medical societies. It'll be the Society of Neurology. I'm not going to say specific ones. Or it'll be a county medical society in some big city that can bring me in.

I like it when there's some way to access medical students and residents, but unfortunately, I don't get that opportunity much. But when I have had that opportunity, I think that's where it's really important because if you can sort of go into medicine saying, "Hey, I'm going to prioritize my wellbeing. I'm still going to take good care of patients, but I know what potentially can happen if I run myself into the ground and allow myself to be run into the ground. I think that that's better.

I think the challenge comes to those of us that have been in medicine for years and years or decades, and we've always done things a certain way and now we're being forced to change. I'm hoping the medical students that didn't have rigid patterns already, maybe they'll be able to adjust to the new world of medicine. And it is very new compared to what you and I probably trained under. I really hope the medical students is a different battle for them than what the people that started a while ago really dealt with.

John: Yeah, I hope so too. We're going to segue into what you're doing now a little bit more, what's different now about your practice and so forth. But I want to mention your website because I hate to wait till the end in case someone doesn't listen to the end. It's drdavidgeier.com.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah, drdavid. And then nobody gets the spelling wrong, but I own every domain name of any possible way you can misspell it so you'll end up on it. Dr. David Geier. D-R D-A-V-I-D G-E-I-E-R is how I spell it. And then all the social media is that same handle @drdavidgeier. It doesn't matter what the platform is, but yeah, I appreciate that.

John: Yeah. And if somebody wants to get motivated to do something, I'd say just look you up on YouTube and find you a channel, because it just shows you what you can do if you just spend a little time to organize and get in front of the camera.

Dr. David Geier: And it isn't hard. So many people are like "I could never speak on camera. I could never write." Just start. If you read my first articles, they were horrendous. My first few newspaper columns were God awful. Really bad. My first few YouTube videos, really, really bad. Not just from a tech standpoint, but I was terrible. But it's reps. I bet and this is no criticism of you, but I bet your first few podcasts are nothing like they are now.

John: Yeah.

Dr. David Geier: Just start and you don't have to do every day of the week, literally once a week. And you batch them, you do four at a time and you get a month's worth done all at once. Just start. I really believe, maybe not everybody, but so many physicians, once you start, you may find you actually like it and like communicating in this sort of online world. I think it's really gratifying.

John: Yeah, I think if you listen to my first few podcasts that would be kind of hard to listen to. But we learn over time and it becomes just natural after a while. And you'd be surprised how much you think you don't have anything to say, but it's really not if you learn certain tricks and how to brainstorm in that. You could probably sit down and come up with 20 topics yourself right now and sit down in front of a camera and do it just because people are asking you questions and you can answer those questions. And that's basically what we're doing.

Dr. David Geier: That absolutely is one of the best brainstorming ideas you can have. Literally keep a sheet of paper somewhere or a notebook when people ask you questions. Especially if you hear the same question two or three times in clinic, do a video or do an article on that because I promise people are Google searching for that or searching on YouTube for that. And that's easily the best source of content you could ever have is just what are your patients asking you.

John: Yeah, absolutely. Great advice. Now tell us what you're doing now that's different from what you started doing the first I don't know 10 years or so because it does have some new aspects to it. I'm really anxious to hear about that and I'll probably have to pick your brain about some clinical.

Dr. David Geier: I practiced for 16 years as what I call a traditional orthopedic surgeon. You have an orthopedic injury, very often you fix it surgically, put it back together, that kind of thing. And loved it. Sports medicine, it's mostly arthroscopic surgery. But just over two years ago I pivoted to basically get away from surgery into what I call anti-aging orthopedics. I joined a practice where I was actually a patient myself that was integrative medical practice. They do a lot of hormone replacement, a lot of things, preventative medicine and you just feel better, obviously live longer, but feel better as you live longer.

Actually, my doctor actually helped me through that burnout phase. I realized I was low in a bunch of different health markers, so we've really worked to get that fixed. But then I realized, "Man, there's a lot of things out here that are available that you just can't use in traditional medicine and traditional orthopedics because it's either considered experimental by the FDA or it is approved by the FDA, but you have to use it off-label."

And so, she talked to me and said, "Hey, would you like to come on as bone and joint health?" She and another doctor do, again, integrative medicine. It's sort of all different aspects of medicine, but for a lot of those patients who have arthritis, they have other joint pain and things like that.

And so, I was a little nervous about leaving traditional medicine and insurance-based medicine and surgery but I made the leap maybe a little early, but I don't regret it now. But getting away from surgery and trying to help people avoid surgery with some of these anti-aging and regenerative medicine techniques, we were talking about this before we started, I spent a year studying for my anti-aging and regenerative medicine boards. I had to take a written exam, do an oral exam, which was just awful because I don't remember cardiovascular medicine and all.

I had to learn all these different types of medicine all over again but it was well worth it. At least at the time I got that certification in September of last year 2022. I was only the second orthopedic surgeon in the country to have that board certification.

But it's been great. 40-ish percent of my patients fly in or travel in to see me here in Charleston, South Carolina. It's great. It's a big shift. I miss surgery a little bit, but I realize not that much. And I'm really grateful because I can hopefully help a decent percentage of people not need that surgery. Not just now, but hopefully down the road. So, it was a big change and that's been really the last two, two and a half years of my life.

John: Now the work that you're doing in that regard, does it still require a medical license? Are you doing injections? Are you doing other things like that?

Dr. David Geier: Yeah. No, it's all still a medical license. Now three board certifications. When people think of regenerative medicine, people typically think of stem cells. I don't really do stem cells, even though there are some orthopedic surgeons that do it. There's some things about stem cells that I think make it not terribly effective as a treatment here in the US at least for orthopedics.

But some of the things that we do, some non-physicians do osteopaths and things like that, they don't tend, at least as far as orthopedic conditions, really know what they're treating. Not all, but a lot. They just have their one preferred treatment. They use it over and over and over with people, and I'm not a big fan of that. But yeah, it's all very, very well researched. It's not just, "Hey, let's just try this and see if it works." It involves things like peptides and some regenerative treatments, maybe like exosomes or PRP modalities.

We have hyperbaric oxygen chambers in our practice. We have shockwave and a number of other different things, off-label medications to stop the damage in arthritis and things like that. And a lot of combination treatments. Not just one thing over and over, but different things based on the problems and the specific nature of the patient.

We have our own pharmacy that's regulated by the state pharmacy board and we use FDA approved compounding pharmacies for the raw ingredients that our pharmacy uses and things like that. I think it's great. I'm glad I didn't have to set it up. The doctor that started the practice started it 20 years ago, and so it's a well-oiled machine now. But there's a lot to it. I'm very fortunate that I was invited to be a part of it, but I do think that that's largely where we'll see if orthopedics heads there, but I think all of medicine or at least a lot of it is headed that way.

And the burnout thing was really interesting because so many of the integrative medicine physicians on meeting, that's largely why they left their insurance-based practices is burnout type issues. I'm curious to see if burnout drives a huge growth in integrative medicine, cash-based medicine, preventative medicine. I don't know. We'll see. That wasn't really the reason I did it, but that's what I'm hearing from other physicians that are getting into that world.

John: Yeah, it sounds like a little bit like the people I've talked to that have gone into functional medicine. And so, there's also some other things like that. It's where they can still be a physician and some of those things, truly, they're more of a consultant, but they get to use that physician brain and help clients, help patients.

I think a lot of the approaches that are being discovered and applied that aren't surgical and aren't traditional medicine have beneficial effects that we don't know and understand fully. And that means to me that they're going to be working for things that those other areas just didn't ever have a solution for, at least to date.

Dr. David Geier: It's exciting. Medicine, at least what is going on in the labs, it's progressing very quickly. The challenge a lot of times is that a lot of times the research is coming along faster than the regulatory bodies can examine that evidence. And so, there's a lot of things that seem to work very well that the FDA through no fault of their own just hasn't gotten around to sort of dealing with. And so, you hear the patients, the general public say, "Hey, we're so far behind Europe."

And it's good and bad in some ways. Obviously you want to make everything safe for people, but it is also leading to this growth of the integrative and functional medicine physicians who I really do think generally try to keep an eye on the research and don't push the envelope too far. But unfortunately, I think then you do have people that, "Hey, I can make cash for this and make a lot of money, maybe non-physicians that do push it too far." And so, it is really an interesting space. It'll really be interesting to see how this plays out over the next decade or so.

John: Yeah, I'm interested to see what happens and I'm going to keep looking for guests to come on and tell me more about it in the future. That was a good introduction for us. Do you have a few more minutes? I have one more thing I want to ask you about.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah, absolutely.

John: Because something I read, or maybe it was our conversation, you mentioned AI. I don't know too many physicians have integrated even into writing an article, much less anything else. But I think you have used certain types of AI tools for some of what you do.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah, I actually played around with the tool. I was sort of an early adopter and there's a million AI tools, everybody knows Chat GPT, but of one that I have no relationship other than I pay money to use it. And there's probably better ones now, but I used one called Copy.ai. And to be fair, I haven't gone so far as to say, "All right, I'm going to let it write a video script for me, or I'm going to let it write a blog post." I know they can do that. I've tried it out just to see what it creates.

Where I've found AI to be helpful, we were talking, this is going to sound completely cheesy, but it works. You were talking about great ways to brainstorm and we were talking about writing down questions patients ask, but literally you can search, you can make, depending on how you organize the tool and it's search function and how you set it up, "Give me 10 topic ideas for blog posts about pseudogout" or something like that that'll spit out common symptoms. Things that you honestly could do. But you could brainstorm 50 topics in a heartbeat.

I do know physicians, I was for a short period of time in this mentorship of cash-based physicians in various parts of the country and various specialties. And the guy that ran it was a big proponent of using AI and some of the people in that group tried it, and they write all of their blog posts using AI and they'll just change grammar words and things like that.

It is that good when you remember that you're writing in Layman's terms. You do not want to write, I would argue in very, very detailed scientific terms, because the average person will read your blog post and have no idea what you're talking about. And AI does a pretty good job of translating it into English, but you have to be using these tools. And that's why I don't know that Chat GPT, the times I tried it was terribly helpful. But Copy.ai and I know there's others, it can generate a bullet point, like an outline for a topic, and then within each bullet point a few points within that and you cross out the ones you don't want and you rearrange the ones and then it'll generate a script or a blog post and then you can edit that. And it's surprisingly good.

But at the end of the day, you as a physician sort of need to keep an eye on it, read it, make sure that it's technically right, and that it makes sense to the reader or viewer or listener. But it is amazing what's out there. I'm not going to say that it replaces us, but it can do a lot of the heavy lifting. And when we're talking about creating content, I've been amazed. I don't know how I'll necessarily use AI going into my actual practice, but at least from a every now and then I need to come up with something, yeah, I think it can be helpful.

John: Yeah. I think for people that are thinking about a blog, a podcast, an online course, anything that requires creating content, particularly if it's repetitive. I haven't had a lot of experience with it, but I know that one of my team sometimes uses. I can tell it's an AI thing because I read it and I go, "Okay." But all I do is I just chop up the sentences and I put it in my own exactly voice and that saved me 80, 90% of the time. It's another "no excuse" for not doing this stuff. You don't have the time? It'll take you two minutes to just edit this thing.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah. It really is impressive. You could have it write a 500 word article and you can tell because it may repeat a point, maybe different words, but it's basically saying the same thing or it seems out of order because I don't know how well it thinks through a human train of thought, but it's surprisingly good. If you said "Generate a 500 word blog post on pseudogout", literally 10 seconds and there it is. And then you just go behind it. I don't want to necessarily encourage you to defer the whole content creation to AI, but it is a good start. If you've got writer's block and you are like, "What am I going to write about?" that's another way to at least get started.

John: Yeah. I think we're just scratching the surface. I heard something on the radio or somewhere where somebody told some type of AI to write a 500 page screenplay and five minutes later they had it. And they said it wasn't bad. It was a really good screenplay. Okay, this is crazy.

Dr. David Geier: Well, I think it'll be interesting, and I am not an expert on EMRs electronic medical records at all, but I do wonder when AI is starting to be used for EMRs. I think there's a lot of potential with that in terms of improving our lives. Obviously the information has got to be accurate and all that, but I think there is potential that AI could be really useful. And I say that as an outsider to these systems, but I actually think it could be very helpful, just what I've seen in the social media content world. I've got to believe there's a way to make it useful for physicians in just documenting clinic visits and hospital visits and things like that.

John: Yeah. I hadn't thought about it, but now that you mention it, it just seems like with the right tweaks and the right protections, it could be one of the solutions to this dreadful EMR that we have to work on.

Dr. David Geier: And there's money to be made in it, which makes me think it's already being worked on. Because everybody knows the EMR issue is a huge issue. And the EMR companies, there's a lot of money for them to be made if people pivot to them because it's easy to use. So, it's coming for sure.

John: Okay. Just tell us again how to get in touch with you, how to follow you, the best places.

Dr. David Geier: Yeah. The best place is my website, drdavidgeier.com. There's a contact form I'd love to hear from you if you are listening to this podcast. Even if it's just to say, "Hey, I want to start doing content." I'd love to just know other people that are content providers. So reach out. I get comments and questions from all over the world, so I love interacting.

The links to my social media are on my website, but everywhere, every platform, it's drdavidgeier, whether that's X, which I actually love consuming. I don't post it that much there, but I love consuming. YouTube I'm obviously on. Instagram and Facebook, definitely reach out. I love, love, love, love to meet physicians that are starting to get into podcasting and video creation. I just love it. I wish we could all do it, quite honestly.

John: Hey, I really appreciate the comments today and everything you've shared with us. And with that, I'll just thank you and say goodbye.

Dr. David Geier: Oh, absolutely. I really, really enjoyed it and I hope we can do it in another four or five years. I'll be curious where medicine is and where you and I are at that point.

John: All right. Bye-bye.

Dr. David Geier: Take care.

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The post How to Market Your Surgical and Nonsurgical Careers Like a Pro – 321 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

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Top Insider Tips on Branding and Social Media for Clinicians

Interview with Dr. Dana Corriel – 325

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The Power of Personal Branding in Healthcare

Dr. Dana Corriel's Important Message

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Best First Resources to Use Before You Start Your Nonclinical Career Journey

Exploit These Free and Low-Cost Tools – Episode 322

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Other Best First Resources to Help You

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How to Market Your Surgical and Nonsurgical Careers Like a Pro – 321

Interview with Dr. David Geier

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Surgical Career Evolution: Beyond Social Media

Content Creation and Engagement with AI

Making Medical Information Accessible

Sharing Medical Advances and Insights

Observing Trends

Shift to Preventive Medicine & Non-Surgical Care

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