In today's interview, Dr. Eleanor Tanno explains how her consulting business grew directly from the needs of some of her patients.

She received her medical degree from the U. of Maryland School of Medicine. Then she completed her residency in Family Medicine at Virginia Commonwealth University. She works as a full-time primary care family physician as a partner in a multispecialty medical practice. She founded Advance Directive MD as a side project to assist people in creating meaningful advance directives.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno's Journey on Side Business

The concept for this firm occurred to her very early in residency, while she was at the hospital working in the Intensive Care Unit. She observed that many families were unprepared to handle queries concerning end-of-life care. And most did not have an advance directive in place.

And those that did have advance directives had been prepared with the help of an estate attorney. They were frequently outdated and didn't contain the information to make end-of-life decisions in the hospital setting.

That's when Dr. Tanno started to envision a part-time business devoted to addressing this issue. Towards the end of the COVID pandemic, she started educating patients and helping them complete their advance directives 

How Her Consulting Business Grew

She began listening to podcasts regarding nonclinical careers. And took online courses to learn how to start a small business. She learned how to create a website, create a business plan, and market her business.

She marketed her services through word-of-mouth, presenting to groups, writing articles for the public, and holding workshops to teach patients and their families about advance directives. And she collaborated with attorneys to help their clients complete the medical portion of their advance directives. She was very pleased by how quickly her consulting business grew.

Dr. Eleanor Tannor's Advice

We're so locked into this idea that we're in clinical medicine and that's all we are doing. But the more people I talk to about this, the more physicians I meet doing things that are out of the box. 

Summary

You can get a look at what Dr. Tanno has built by visiting advancedirectivemd.com. There you will find articles and workshops, webinars, speaking events, corporate events, and lectures for medical professionals.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Dr. Eleanor Tanno's Website
• Dr. Eleanor Tanno's LinkedIn Page
• How to Validate Your Business Idea
• The Best New Business Solves a Problem – 171
• How to Select the Best Online Business Niche – 110
• How to Employ Powerful Online Strategies with Dr. Marjorie Stiegler – 084
• NewScr!pt

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Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 289

How This Consulting Business Grew Directly From a Patient Need

- Interview with Dr. Eleanor Tanno

John: I connected with today's guest several months back on LinkedIn, and I found her side venture so interesting that I thought I had to have her join me on the show. So, Dr. Eleanor Tanno, welcome to the show.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's such an honor.

John: Well, it's going to be fun because I find myself interviewing physicians who are practicing and they're happy in their practice. Not everyone that comes on this show is seeking the exit. But it seems like physicians are curious and when they find a problem, they want to solve it. And so, many physicians do something on the side like you're doing. And I thought it'd be very interesting to hear your story and walk through how you got involved with this and how things are going.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: Thank you.

John: With that, first, tell us about your educational background and clinically what you've done since finishing your residency.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: Sure. Since finishing my residency, which is in family medicine, I joined a large multi-specialty private practice in Rockville, Maryland. I practiced with about 20 internists, mostly a few family physicians are sprinkled in there and then some subspecialists. So, we have, I think three or four other subspecialists that work all under our roof. And so, that's mostly what I've been doing essentially full-time.

And then I've had this idea since the beginning of my residency, but really sort of hit the road about a year and a half ago at the tail end of the pandemic when we all had a little more time and some of us had some breathing room. I started this side venture in helping people put together their advanced directives.

John: That's very interesting. What happened that prompted you to do that? Apparently there's a problem that was needed to be solved. And in that, tell me, did you have some special relationship with that whole concept? Do you work for a hospice or any of those kinds of things? Explain that in more detail.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: Yeah. The idea came really early in residency when I was in the hospital and doing time in the ICU. I'm sure as many physicians have seen end-of-life care in this country, the pendulum has swung. And so, we do a lot of aggressive end-of-life care and find ourselves asking, "Is it worth it for this patient? Are they getting anything out of it? Are we actually solving a problem?" And also I found that a lot of families are completely unprepared to answer the questions about end of life care and next steps.

And if they did ever talk about it with their family members, which most of the time they hadn't, it was in the form of an advanced director that had made with an estate attorney that was often extremely dated by even honestly, decades. And it didn't actually have any practical information for physicians. If I'm in a persistent vegetative state, pull the plug or something. They wouldn't actually say that term, but no heroic measures.

And I just found myself asking why are people making these documents with an attorney and not with a physician? And how can I potentially be the physician who makes that document with them and has these conversations? This idea sort of mulled around in my head for years. And I thought, "Well, one day I would love to help people put their advanced directives together from a clinical perspective."

And then when I got into practice, I just realized during a primary care session, you could briefly go over these things, but there just isn't time to really get into this information. And there's so many misconceptions out there about end of life care that I decided to really dive into this more and create a more robust system.

And I did at one point investigate doing a palliative care fellowship, maybe two years into practice. I thought maybe I should go down that road. But what I found, and I did go as far as actually to shadow a palliative care fellowship program and really see what they do all day. I found a lot of it was symptom management, which was not really a piece I needed.

And a lot of what people need is they just really need the clinical perspective and just really basic misconceptions to be corrected. A lot of people, they think that withdrawing care at the end of life is the same thing as say do not resuscitate. There's a lot of just really basic stuff that really any physician who's been in a hospital could help people with. And so, I thought, "Well, I think I can do what I want to do without the fellowship, and if I need to, I can always go back for it."

I started doing this and getting into it more, and the more I got into it, the more really of a need I realized that there is, and people are thirsty to know about this stuff. It's a little bit of a black box, which as physicians, that's our fault too, but there's just so much light to be shed in this area.

John: No, absolutely. And you mentioned the attorneys. My wife and I did the same thing. We went and did this plan. It was kind of a life plan. It was really more for the financial side. And one of the things that was in there were the documents for advanced directive. And so, we filled out what we did. Luckily, she's a respiratory therapist, I'm a physician. At least I understood pretty well what I was doing.

The other thing that it makes me think about too, when you said about being trained in palliative. The reality is even most of the physicians doing hospice care are not palliative care doctors. There's very few of those. Mostly, it is internists and family physicians like you that are doing it anyway. And you're taking care of patients that are seniors and are older. So, it's something that they all need. So yeah, it makes perfect sense. And I think you're right. The MD, DO, whatever, is plenty to understand how to make something that's a lot more specific and useful. So, that's interesting. What happened? There was a point where you said, "Okay, I'm going to do something about this." Take us down that path. What did you start doing?

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: Well, I started listening to a lot of podcasts, actually. Nonclinical career podcasts. There are so many out there, but a number that really sort of resonated with me. And one of the ones that I found was Marjorie Stiegler's podcast. And she's very practical.

My background is in engineering, and I just felt like she was speaking to me, actually like nuts and bolts how to do it. So, she talked about how to make a website. She even had a whole episode on how to create a podcast down to what kind of a camera and what kind of a mic to get. These little really, really useful nuggets.

And so, at some point I just listened enough and enough and then I felt like I was ready to launch. And I did that and I started writing and I thought, "Well, while I'm getting all my prep work, at least I can be writing down my ideas and creating, so that when I'm ready to hit go, I can." And then I created my website, which I did from scratch myself, which was a whole lesson in everything you can learn on YouTube, which I thought was fantastic.

John: Yeah, YouTube is great.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: I know. Really, I mean, it's amazing. And that was really great because now I know how to change it and edit it and do things. And just all these little things along the way. When you get into practice after a number of years, I'm sure you hear this a lot from your people, you plateau a little bit, right? I answered the same 100 questions a day, right?

John: Right.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: And I see the same 50 clinical diagnoses and 10 of those I see, I don't even know, 15 times a day. And so, it was really fun to start to learn something and get out there, and it's almost like you put these breadcrumbs. You leave something and you forget about it, and then a couple weeks later you get an email, "Hey, your article was accepted into wherever." And so, that's what I was doing and reaching out and making connections with senior communities, which is sort of my target audience. Most people who are thinking about advanced directives are generally in their sixties and seventies, but some of them are younger.

John: Now I'm sure that with your individual patients, of course, this was something you were doing all along in terms of trying to get that done. Although, like you said, there's not enough time in a normal visit. But the other thing that occurs to me is there's probably opportunities just to do lectures. Were you doing that before this became an idea to be a business? Or are you doing more of that now?

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: That was sort of like the building. I reached out, I thought who would be interested in this? I live outside of DC. People are very highly educated and then they retire and then they're looking for something to do with their brains. And so, there's a lot of these senior lecturers in communities. And so, I reached out to them, and honestly, they were delighted to have a physician. There aren't that many physicians who have the time or energy or interest in doing something like this or anything in terms of the lectures.

And so, I reached out and I said, "Hey, are you interested?" And I think as I did them, I got more comfortable, I realized what questions people had. I refined things. I get great feedback from my students, and I think it's just nice to have something practical. The lectures were born out of that. And as I go one day I hope to make probably an online course that people can individually take online and just purchase basically like an hour, two hours, whatever ends up being.

John: Yeah, it seems like the progression is okay, do some live events and keep doing them forever if you like. And those are usually in person, then you have the online events, and then eventually you do that so many times you're like, "Okay, well, I could definitely turn this. I can just record the darn thing because I've done it 20, 50 times." And then that's just there for people to purchase or have access to for free or what have you. So, that sounds like the process that you're following.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: Yeah. And then the other client base that I hadn't considered when I first started was actually working with attorneys. So, I reached out to a local estate attorney, and I had asked her basically if she could see a place where we could essentially partner where she could do the legal part of the advanced directive, and I could help people with the medical part.

And she owns her own practice and she was like, "To heck with meeting one-on-one, I would love for you to come and train my estate attorneys on how to do advanced directives." Because apparently this is their least favorite part of doing the estate planning is the medical part. Because they don't feel comfortable. They don't have the training and any questions they get, they basically say, "Go ask your doctor." And so, that would be a really interesting thing is to go and train attorneys on advanced directives.

John: That's interesting how you can find a new niche that you didn't know existed, but you just get out there and network and reach out to someone that you might know or maybe that somebody refers to you and these things can develop.

One of the things I've noticed in the past is that at first it didn't make sense to me that somebody who was working full-time, who is maybe a little burnt out, just as we all are, or bored. Like you said, you're seeing the same diagnosis so many times a day. Well, let's just add another 10 or 12 hours of work a week to my plate. But it seems like people that do that, either they somehow know how to balance it but they feel they enjoy it so much and actually life seems more fulfilling and really not so much of burnout. So, is that what you've experienced in this process?

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: Yeah. I find this whole process extremely creative. Like I said, creating a website, reaching out to people, creating lectures, trying to find materials that make something that can be extremely complicated, much more user-friendly. For me, it's a lot of fun. And sometimes it's a small thing, like you're sending an email to somebody or something, and so, you might do 10, 15 minutes on that day. And other days I'm sitting down, I'm like, okay, I'm about to give a talk. Next week I have a talk for a hundred people in an advanced directive workshop. I really need to put aside a number of hours to get that done." So, it ebbs and flows, but in terms of how I find the time, it's something I enjoy. Anything you enjoy, you find time for. And I guess part of it also, I have a two and a half year old.

John: That doesn't take any time, does it?

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: No, but when she started going to bed about the same time, I felt like I could breathe. And suddenly it was eight o'clock at night and I thought, "I think she's sleeping for the night." Rather than maybe watch TV for an hour, I was like, "Well, let me write for an hour." And I enjoyed it. So, it didn't seem like that. It doesn't feel like work and it's so creative.

And I think the other thing is, and I tell this a lot of times to my medical students from Georgetown. You get into this job and there's kind of like a limit on what physicians can do in clinical practice, right? Unless you're in a hospital and you move up. Once you're in private practice, and I'm a partner at my office, there's not a whole lot of growth from an employment statement point that could happen there.

But with this side venture, it feels like the sky is the limit. I was listening to this one podcast where they said "You don't need to think outside of the box, just the box is bigger than you think it is." Something to the effect of that. And it just feels like there's so much out there and you just stumble into interesting people and ideas and fields and training the attorneys on the estate planning aspect of it. It's like you almost stumble into these new worlds and you're like, "Wow, there's something here for me to work on." I don't know, it's very open and creative.

John: Well, you said it earlier about how we spend so much time in our education and we're learning constantly. We're just programmed to learn and then you reach a plateau in your practice. And so, okay, well, I'm going to learn something new. For me, over the years, I remember I was three or four years into my practice and we didn't have a retirement plan. And I knew nothing about investing. So I spent the next year learning about investing. It was interesting, it was something different from medicine. I never became a stockbroker or anything, but it was just like, "Yeah, I can just take my attitude towards learning and apply it to this, and then it'll be something else after that."

Now this has been fine though, right? It's meshing with your practice, you're still covering and practicing full-time and doing this. Are there certain aspects of this where you can actually earn income from it that are, I don't know, maybe with this recent conversation with the attorney that opens up a whole different venue? But what part of it do you think it is really? Because we all want to diversify our income, right?

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: Yeah.

John: So, what part does it seem like has the most potential for that for you right now?

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: Right. I think there's a lot of potential. If somebody's going to sit down with a state attorney and pay them, I've heard, easily $5,000, $10,000 to put together their estate documents, why wouldn't they as part of that package or on top of that package, meet with a physician to do their advanced directive? So, that's one place that for sure income can be earned.

A lot of these lectures I give, they are at paid venues. So, assisted livings will pay for speakers. Recently, I have one that a hospital gave a grant to a local senior community to get more advanced directives in the community. And then if I did an online course, which I do want to do hopefully in the nearest future, I imagine people would be very happy to pay a nominal fee for that. As opposed to what it would cost to sit down one-on-one to then to pay for a two hour course or something. And then if I did more speaking, especially at the attorney level, that for sure could be another paid speaking audience essentially.

John: It sounds good. Sounds like a plan. I failed to mention your website or the URL for that. It's called advancedirectivemd.com. Correct?

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: Yes.

John: Yes. And so, if our listeners go to your site, because I think it's good to look at what someone has created in this process of doing a side venture, side gig, whatever. What will they find on the website? Because you created it yourself, and it is a very good website. I definitely looked it over and it's awesome really. It's better than mine. And I'm paying somebody.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: Well, I did get professional photos, which I think was something that was highly recommended. I took a course through Marjorie Stiegler's online class. And so, that was one thing that she had talked about.

John: I'm going to ring the bell again to hers.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: I know, I know. She's a common name at my dinner table. My husband asked me if I was secretly sending her money or something. I was like no. In terms of the website, the homepage is basically make an advance directive with a physician. I put out there what I am.

And then really there's articles that I've written that I think are really helpful. And I often when I teach classes say "I can't cover everything in this lecture, read more." And so, I have an entire article on dedicated to do not resuscitate orders. And then I have something in Maryland. I'm in Maryland. And we have the MOLST form.

John: Right.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: And so, people have a lot of questions about that form because it's confusing. I have stuff on the pitfalls of choosing your medical power of attorney, specifically focused around adult children who are arguing over their parents' advance directives.

John: That's a good article. I got to read that one.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: I think that was something I saw a lot in the hospital. Maybe they talked to their spouse about their advance directive, but they never talked to their kids about it. I've tried to make the most basic questions people ask, the most user friendly things. And then that's pretty much what my website is there for. And then I have obviously the ways to connect with me and then some of the things I do with speaking.

John: Yeah, I think you list workshops, webinars, speaking events. Not that those are all active at any given day, but I think it's good. It's a good mix. And then from what I'm hearing, \it seems like you're a resource for patients and for physicians and now for attorneys.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: Well, my target client is patients, people, not physicians. I don't think that there's much I say that most physicians haven't encountered in their lifetime or their training. But really the step-by-step guide of how to make an advanced directive for patients and like I said, the power of attorney. These are questions that I get a lot.

What's interesting is when you start teaching and seeing questions people have, you learn things that you didn't even realize were pain points for other people. I was teaching this course and about a third of my students did not have an obvious medical power of attorney. They were single, they were widows. Their kids had complicated medical problems, whatever the story was. And that for them was the reason they hadn't made an advance directive because they didn't know who they would have as their power of attorney, and therefore they were paralyzed over this. And I found out later that apparently 20% of people are in this case.

So, now when I talk about naming a medical power of attorney, I make sure to say, if you don't have an obvious person, 20% of the population don't feel alone in that. And then I talk about some things that people might do to mitigate that. And so, that's the kind of stuff, that really working with people and patients that I learned along the way that I thought was surprising and interesting.

John: Very nice. Well, we're getting near the end here. We wish you all the best for sure. Another question that I typically ask my guests before they leave is, if you were talking to a physician who's in the middle of their practice, they're kind of burnt out maybe or just frustrated, bored, all the above, what advice would you have for them?

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: Really, the sky is the limit. We're so locked into this idea that we're in clinical medicine and that's all we are doing, but the more people I talk to about this, the more physicians I meet doing things that are out of the box. And so, you just have to find what interests you. I feel in some ways that I'm sort of reinventing the wheel with what I'm doing, but a lot of times there's tons of things outside of clinical medicine that are not as starting from scratch. And so, you just have to find something that excites you. And that's the community that you can then just build.

John: Well, I do surveys of my listeners every once in a while and one question that keeps coming up is "Well, how do I start a side business?" Obviously, listening to our conversation, Eleanor, would be helpful just to see "Okay, how you walk through that?"

I think it's good to look at your website and say, "Okay, this is a website of someone who started something new. It's not rocket science. Here's what you put out there as part of your marketing plan." And so, I would definitely advise people to check out advancedirectivemd.com.

Now, if they happen to be a patient that needs it, also go there for sure. But I think we can learn a lot. And even looking at your LinkedIn profile, which I'll put in our show notes as well. So I appreciate you taking the time and explaining all this to us today. It's been fun.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: Thank you so much for having me. It's very exciting.

John: We're going to have to swing back in about a year or so and see what's going on. I think it will be very interesting. Again, thanks for being here. And with that, I'll say goodbye.

Dr. Eleanor Tanno: All right, thanks so much. It was great talking to you.

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The post How This Consulting Business Grew Directly From a Patient Need – 289 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Today's guest describes how to build a rewarding online business. He is the host of The Affiliate Guy Podcast, your source for affiliate marketing news, tips, and strategies to take your online business to the next level.

Matt McWilliams is also the author of the best-selling book Turn Your Passions Into Profits. He has worked with some of the world's most successful businesses and entrepreneurs, including Shark Tank's Kevin Harrington, Tony Robbins, Ryan Levesque, Michael Hyatt, Brian Tracy, Jeff Walker, and others.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Matt's Journey in Affiliate Marketing

Matt is the owner of an agency that runs affiliate programs for high-level entrepreneurs and businesses. The things he learned building that and other businesses led him to write his book about building a rewarding online business. 

Affiliate marketing enables business owners to sell without taking any risks. Matt refers to this as paid-to-practice (PTP).

Startup of Affiliate Marketing

Matt introduced his ‘Affiliate Donut' approach, in which you focus on your main services. You can establish an affiliate relationship with your audience by providing supplements or other products that will benefit them in numerous ways, which will lead to them becoming recurring buyers.

There are certain advantages to using Matt's approach:

1. Start monetizing immediately
2. Training your audience to buy before you have your own product.
3. Serve your audience by recommending products right in your niche or tangential ones.

And if the performance is strong, one will be able to generate more revenue early in your entrepreneurial journey. 

Building a Rewarding Online Business

Matt touches on other business principles during our interview. And his book, Turn Your Passions Into Profits, provides detailed instructions outlining his proven path to a rewarding online business.

It covers all of the other necessary aspects of building any business, from identifying your niche, describing your avatar, building authority, creating a marketing plan, and building a team.

Summary

Turn Your Passion Into Profits is available at booksellers nationwide. But the best place to get Matt's book is at passionsintoprofitsbook.com/jurica. There are extra free bonuses for you using that link, including courses such as Matt's Email Marketing Masterclass and others. 

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Turn Your Passions into Profits by Matt McWilliams
• The Common Path to Uncommon Success by John Lee Dumas
• The Positioned Physician by Mike Woo-Ming
• How to Get Started on Your Nonclinical Online Business
• How to Select the Best Online Business Niche – 110
• How to Become an Author, Consultant and Online Authority with Dr. Tom Davis – 047
• NewScr!pt

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 288

What Is the Proven Path to a Rewarding Online Business?

John: If you've been reading my emails recently, you'll recognize today's guest. I've been helping him get the word out about his new book "Turn Your Passions into Profits", and I'm really pleased to be able to talk to him personally about the book today. Matt McWilliams, welcome to the show.

Matt McWilliams: Hey, John. I appreciate that and thanks for having me today.

John: And I think we were talking before we got out, we're kind of like neighbors. You're one state over Indiana and I'm in Illinois. So, we're Midwest guys.

Matt McWilliams: Yes, yes. I don't sound like it just because I grew up in the south, but I've been up here long enough, I'm getting that little bit of that, that twangs gone away. And my accents become a lot more neutral. It's kind of funny when you combine a dad from New Jersey, a mom from California, you grow up in the south, but in an area with mostly relocated Yankees, then you move up to Fort Wayne, Indiana. You end up with a weird accent. Apparently, I've been told I have a neutral to slightly strange accent because I say certain words like I'm from Boston. Other words like I'm from Indiana. Other words like I'm from Mississippi. So, I like the mix in that.

John: It sounds pretty Midwestern today, but we'll see. I'll be looking for those rare words that come out that are a tip off to some other area. All right, we're going to be talking about your book today. And I'd let you give us a little background about what you do and then we'll get into why you wrote the book. But tell us a little bit about yourself.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah. Today I'm so blessed, John. I get to live out both ends of the book. There's a reason why we titled it what we titled it, you turn your passions into profits. It's not about just having a business you're passionate about. It's not about just changing the world. I've been there, done that. My third business. Man, I was making an impact on people, changing people's lives. I'd get emails and, and blog comments and social media comments every couple of days. "Matt, you saved my marriage. Matt, I was thinking about killing myself and I didn't. Matt, you changed my life." And I'm like, "That's awesome. Yay."

Here's a funny thing though. Our kids are both in high level soccer now and it's thousands of dollars a year. And the soccer association sadly does not take blog comments as a form of payment or tweets and Facebook posts as a form of payment. The mortgage company, they never took. I tried once forwarding them an email saying, "Look what somebody said about me. I saved a guy's life." And they're like, "You still owe us $1,800." Dang it, that's not how this is supposed to work.

And I've been on the flip side, I've had a business where I made more money than I know what to do with John. The reality was, when I was in my early twenties, I was making between $8,000 and $10,000 a week teaching golf schools. At that age, full disclosure, don't ever make that much money when you're that young because you'll do what I did and do a bunch of stupid stuff with it.

John: Yeah, to squander it.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah. May or may not, I had a lot of nice stuff there for a few years though. But yeah, I made more money that I knew what to do with, but I was miserable. I hated what I was doing. And so, today I'm able to do both. I've got a great business. We have an agency where we run affiliate programs for some high-level entrepreneurs and businesses and I love that. Got an amazing team there. Got our platform at mattmcwilliams.com. Got the podcast The Affiliate Guy, got the book now "Turn Your Passions into Profits."

The interesting story behind the book because I know you said you were going to ask about it anyway, but not the reason why I wrote it, but the reason why I was able to write it is because I was in that position. If I didn't have such an amazing team, if I hadn't gotten to the point where we built the systems for the business to run, if we hadn't gotten to the point where it provided an income.

Because here's a funny thing about a book. Newsflash everyone, you're not going to make any money for a long time off the book. This was actually financial, we lost money so far, we're in the red. Even with a pretty significant advance from the publisher, we're technically in the red, if you compare it. I think we're in the red unless you count my wage at about one third of minimum wage, in which case, if you'd pay me that, we might be breakeven.

And so, we wouldn't have been able to do that. How do you do something like this? How do you invest all this time and energy into writing, editing, producing, launching all the things that we did for this book without the financial reward. It's because we have the rest of the business doing so well financially that we're able to do that. So, huge kudos, again, to the things that I've learned that put us in that position and obviously, my team, which is amazing.

John: No, it sounds like it's a great story and I think it's definitely ranking extremely high on Amazon and the other list. I've seen some of the numbers and definitely you're going to be one of those few authors that actually make money off their book. Because I've interviewed many and a lot of people write a book to promote their products or to serve their audience.

But yeah, I really like the book. I've gone through it and I get a lot of questions because I send out surveys to my listeners and my readers and one of the things they're looking for is what's the roadmap? How do I build an online business? And again, I'll say, hey, here's the book. It's out. You can get it now. And the subtitle is "The Proven Path for Building a Rewarding Online Business." I'm not going to tell my readers how to do it or listeners. It's like, just get the book. Now we can get that pretty much everywhere, right? Anywhere that books are sold.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah. If they sell books, they sell my book. Amazon, Target, Barnes & Noble. It's in stores, most Barnes & Noble, there's a few that are sold out. Some of the smaller Barnes & Noble will not have it. We have two Barnes & Noble in Fort Wayne. One is massive and then the other is not even the size of our house. It's a tiny little Barnes & Noble and that one doesn't have it. But yeah, we got a deal with Barnes & Noble nationwide. Right now, at least for the next few weeks, it's front and center in almost all the Barnes & Noble we've been into. You walk in and it's right there under the new non-fiction.

So, you can grab it anywhere, but the best place to grab it, you go to passionsintoprofitsbook.com/jurica. If you go there, that's the best place to get the book because John, we've got some special bonuses for your listeners there. You can go buy it in a store, that's great. Go to the store and grab it. That's awesome. Then go back to that URL and make sure you redeem for your bonuses there. So, we've got over $500 in bonuses. Stuff you cannot get anywhere else. And so, that's the best place to do it, of course, because it's just easy peasy. But yeah, if you're walking through the store one day, you see the book, it's about the only book with that color scheme.

My mom, of course, this is a funny story. When it went on sale in stores, she had ordered a couple copies or 20 through Amazon. I was like, "Mom, we got it in Barnes & Noble." And she's like, "What's in the Wilmington and the Jacksonville one?" And she lives an equal distance between the two. This is in North Carolina. She's like 40 minutes from both of them. And she's like, I got to go. And she goes and grabs the copies and she's like, it was so easy to see. I walked in and that is the only one out of like 80 books that are front and center at the store. The only one that looks like that. There are half a dozen white books and some green books and black books. And she's like, it is the only one with that color scheme. So, I wish I could say we did that on purpose. It's actually just because that's our color scheme as a company. But it worked.

John: Yeah. It's on the logo for the podcast, I think are those colors.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah. Obviously, it's just funny. It's one of those we're behind the scenes weird stories. The iterative process for a cover, because I'm sure there's people out there, somebody listening or watching you, you want to do a book. What we did was about 14 months in advance, we started pulling my followers, my fans, my email list, and I also did it with some friends and stuff. I started pulling them on here's six covers that the publisher designed. And it was a very iterative process because the original version of this, there were a couple of things that were different. The original version of this exact one was a completely different color scheme. And the words were not tilted and none of these were tilted here. It was straightforward.

Well, what we found as we did this was the ones that had the slanted words kept doing better. That became the next iteration. We narrowed it down to slanted words. And then the two that did well were this with a completely different color scheme and a different design with this exact color scheme. And so, we were like, we combined them and that ended up being the winner.

And so, it was a very iterative process. I think we did like four rounds. Now number one, I ended up with the best cover. The actual colors that we ended up with there's a slight fade if you look closely from the bottom to the top. The bottom is our official company color. The top is actually from a course of ours, and it's a fade from those two colors. And that was the only reason why we even bothered doing like, "Hey, try that, whatever." Number one, we got the best cover. We ended up with over a thousand votes across the board. A thousand people are voting on it, you can be pretty sure it's going to be the right cover. Secondly, it's pre-marketing for the book in advance. Third, the people who voted, and even if they voted for a different cover, they were a part of the process. So, they were invested in it. So they're much more likely to buy the book.

John: Right. Good marketing, man.

Matt McWilliams: That's what it is.

John: That's what you're an expert at. When I have someone who's an author or does other things, but I obviously get a twofer. So, the twofer part of our conversation is let's use a little bit of your expertise. I have physician friends and colleagues who have started small businesses, coaching, consulting, courses, what have you. Maybe one of them uses affiliate marketing in any way, shape, or form for their business. So, since you are the expert on this topic, maybe you can just give us an overview of what is affiliate marketing? Why is it so cool? And why business owners should start doing it? Maybe to get people to help promote their products.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah. Now I will preface this by saying I don't know any states' laws about physicians and how you can operate. So please check on all that stuff. And I did not stay at a holiday express last night. So, take everything with a grain of salt in that these are basic rules and principles for business owners that I'm sure in some random state, what I'm about to tell you might even be illegal. I'm just going to preface that. So, that is not to save my butt, but to save yours. Whoever's listening, you live in whatever, you live in California and you are not allowed to do this, okay, then don't do it.

The basic premise of affiliate marketing has been around for thousands of years, John. If you think about it, I don't know, ancient Rome. I can't name anybody from ancient Rome other than Julius Caesar, but so-and-so and so-and-so are walking down the street in ancient Rome. One of them is looking for a good cobbler. And he's like, let me take you to mine. And he takes them to his cobbler and the cobbler's like, hey, thanks for referring whoever. I'm going to give you your next pair of shoes 50% off. That's affiliate marketing. If you think about it. There's no technology.

All we did 30 years ago is add technology to the basic concept of referral marketing. And then in advance, because we added that tech piece, before technology, Joe had to walk Sam to the store and say, let me introduce you to this guy before the advent of the telephone. Then we got the telephone, and the telephone allowed us for Joe to call up the shoemaker and say, hey, I got my friend Sam, he's on his way over. And boom, Joe got some credit for those shoes that Sam bought.

About 30 years ago, we added technology. So now we don't even need to know our affiliates, and our affiliates don't need to necessarily have us. But ultimately this comes down to, there's a concept I use called the affiliate donut. In the physician world, your core, if you can picture a donut with the core, the whole there, that's your core offerings. I'm simplifying this, John, but people come to you, if let's just say you're a general practitioner, they come to you when you're sick, when you have injury. That's pretty much the only time people ever unfortunately go to their doctor unless you go for your annual checkup, which reminds me, I'm due for an annual checkup last November. But I was launching a book, so I need to schedule that.

And so, that's when you go to your doctor. Annual checkup or you're not feeling well in some way, shape, or form. That's your core offer. You solve problems and perform annual checkups. Again, I'm simplifying this. I'm not diminishing what physicians do. I'm just saying that's the core offer. But think about all the other things. Do you sell supplements? Are you going to create as a doctor in Fort Wayne, Indiana or Kansas City for that matter? Are you going to create a supplement line? No. But do you recommend supplements to your customers? Maybe.

Well, why not form an affiliate relationship with those and create a single page on your site that says here's all the supplements. I'm just going to say drjohnsmith.com/supplements. And on that page are all the supplements that we recommend. In fact, you can narrow them down. For my patients that are men under 40, here's what I recommend. For my pregnant mothers, here's what I recommend. For my seniors, here's what I recommend. And so on and so forth. And you can recommend those supplements.

Now, if one of your patients become recurring buyers, for let's just say three supplements each fish oil, multivitamin, and one other. They become recurring buyers and you make $3 a quarter off of those 10%, that's $9. That is now a 90-cent increase per quarter in your average customer. You go, "Well, that's not a ton of money in the grand scheme of things." I'm just using round numbers here. Probably a little bit more than that. A $1.50, $2 more.

But those are the type of things at the end of the year, all of a sudden, your affiliate commissions could pay for an entire team member. Let's say you have three front desk staff. One and a half of those could be paid for by your affiliate commissions. That's kind of cool. $50,000 - $60,000 a year. That's a nice little vacation last time I checked. Or I don't know, you could pay off most of your mortgage, whatever it is. That's just off supplements.

There are other types of things you could recommend, whether it be various products that would serve your audience in different ways. Again, I'm making this up as I go here because I'm not super familiar with that world. But if you're a chiropractor, for example, recommending certain products. There's a one that I bought recently called Chirp. I don't know if you've heard of these, John, but think of a foam roller on steroids. My chiropractor years ago gave me a PVC pipe. He's like, don't use a foam roller too soft. Get the PVC pipe. And I'm like, it hurts. And it doesn't dig in. This chirp thing kind of digs up in there and I get on it, I just hear stuff popping. And I get up and I'm like my posture's better.

Could you recommend that as a doctor and make $10 a sale off those chirps? If 5% of your patients buy a chirp, how many patients do you have? Multiply it by 5% times $10 and it starts adding up and it creates that side income that, again, I've heard of people, specifically chiropractors who literally their affiliate commissions pay for their entire administrative staff. Their entire admin staff is paid for, not from their client fees, not from anything else they sell directly, but just from their affiliate offers.

John: Well, let me jump in here for a minute because a lot of my audience, they're getting burnt out. And so, what they're doing, they're creating side gigs that are in the healthcare realm, but it's not under their license. They're not actually practicing. So, they're building consulting or coaching or something. And obviously they can find products and actually other coaches or learning about something that affiliate marketing would be perfect for. And I've done it myself, the things I'm doing affiliated with the podcast and so forth. So, what are the other advantages of affiliate though? Because it's not simply the fact that you have this. You don't have to have any product, right?

Matt McWilliams: Yeah. That's a big one. In that instance, John, think about it. If your practice, though, is bringing in more revenue, yeah, you're burned out. But if you can increase the value of a patient $10, you could reduce your patient load by 10% and make up for that with affiliate marketing. That's one thing.

Number two, if it's bringing in more money on the side, it's building up that reserve. And I know a lot of people when they're switching careers, I have a particular client I'm thinking of, a coaching client. And she's burned out with her current platform. She's building this other platform. And I said, "Okay, the first two coaching sessions, I'm not focusing on your new platform." And she's like, "What do you mean? I want to focus on my new platform." She's doing about $250,000 a year in her current platform. I said, "I want to get that to $300,000 in the next year." She's like, "I don't want to grow that Matt."

And I'm like, "No, listen to me. If I can tweak a few things that don't require any extra work or involvement from you, but get that to $300,000 for the next two years versus going down to $150,000, you have an extra $300,000 in the bank at the end of two years. What could you do if you have an extra $300,000 in the bank at the end of two years?" And for most of us, the answer is pretty much whatever the heck we want to because we have such a load of money sitting there that it frees us up. Because one of the things, what's the thing about a side hustle? "Oh, I want to leave my practice. I'm burned out." Okay, can I just go to making $0? No. Could you go to making $0 if you had a half a million dollars in the bank? Maybe.But with that thing, we're not going to go to $0. We're going to build the side hustle. Maybe that side hustle is only bringing in $3,000 a month. I'm going to go out on a limb and say most physicians make a little bit more than that.

John: Yeah, that's true.

Matt McWilliams: But the physician side is now bringing in an extra $75,000. I don't want to be unrealistic. $75,000 from affiliate marketing. Over two years that's $150,000. Plus $3,000 a month for two years is $72,000 if I'm doing my math right. We're now at $200,000 some. You could go full-time on that side hustle now. It's currently bringing in $3,000. What would it do if you were full? Plus, you have over $200,000 in the bank. So, think of it that way.

To answer your question, what are some of those benefits and what does it do for our business? Number one, you can start monetizing immediately. This is the big one. When you start that side hustle, maybe you're building a platform around your passion and maybe your passion is, we'll just take John's for example, his passion was helping other burnt out physicians. But maybe your passion is around something that has nothing to do with medicine but sort of does. Maybe your passion it's about youth sports and the science of helping youth athletes become better. I'm just making this up.

Well, initially you might not have very many product offerings. You're certainly not going to go create physical products because physical products, I had an idea recently for a physical product and I was told the CAD design alone was going to be $18,000. I'm like, I want to do this, but not that bad. I think I'm just going to pass on that physical product.

So, we start promoting other products and I'm going to get to some of the other benefits that are tied to that in just a second. We don't have any fulfillment, any customer service. You do not need any space in your garage. For those men out there, this is less applicable to the women, just to be honest. But for the men out there, the last thing you want to do is start a business and then your wife can't park in the garage.

John: Right. Absolutely.

Matt McWilliams: Do not do that. I'm giving you marriage advice right now. Never, ever, ever do that because you will not be married in about a year. And so, we don't have to do that. And we don't have to worry. If my promo goes bad, if they don't buy, at least I don't have a garage full of crap. There's no hidden cost. When I sell stuff, I sold a couple of courses today. We sold like a thousand dollars' worth of courses today. Here's the thing. $994 is what my payment processor says we made. $994. And you go, "Hey, $994." I didn't. Not only did I have to pay my affiliates for both of those sales, $400 and change out the door. I paid 30 cents plus 2.9% on both of those transactions and credit card processing fees. So, $60, if I'm doing the math right out the door.

Almost half my revenue is gone. Our customer service manager has to email both of them and make sure that they're set up in their logins. Statistically one out of four is going to have an issue with something. Trying to log in or something's not going to work. An email's not getting delivered. That cost another $10. I'm over $500 on a $ $994 purchase. There's a lot of hidden costs. There's no risk like we talked about.

This is a big one. Affiliate marketing teaches you how to sell, it teaches you how to sell without all those risks and stuff. And so, my favorite kind of practice, I call it PTP, paid to practice. You get paid to practice selling online. You start to learn what works for your audience. Okay, what price points is your audience going to buy it? What sales strategies work? What topics are they going to buy at? What are the best promotional methods? I can send four emails or go live on Facebook for 30 minutes and sell the same amount of stuff. What are you going to do? Write four emails or go live for 30 minutes? You learn those things when you're doing affiliate marketing, it trains them to buy. That's another big one. You are training your audience before you even have a product of your own. You're conditioning them to buy. And I go through a bunch more reasons why, benefits in the book.

But the last one, this is the most important one, it serves your audience. So, let's just go with that example. I don't know it very well, but let's just go with that example. You have a physician. They're a pediatrician and they have a passion for working with kids on things like nutrition and healthcare for kids that are youth athletes.

So you go, okay, this is who I work with. Now I can create a course that teaches parents how to help their kids in these areas, but what supplements do these kids need? Well, you're not going to probably start a supplement company in your first couple of years with this business. You may not even have the money to. And even if you did, again, what did I tell you? Don't have a garage full of stuff.

So, we're not going to do that. We're going to serve our audience though, because your two options, John, are A) serve my audience by recommending supplements and recommending exercise equipment and recommending the things that the kids need to be healthy at their athletic peak. Or tell them, screw you. I'm not going to recommend anything to you because I don't have it myself. Those are your two options.

Again, you become an affiliate for the supplement company. You become an affiliate for the equipment company. Our daughter has a lingering knee issue and it's not structural, she's not going to injure it worse, but because she's having her growth spurt right now, every time she plays soccer it hurts. So, the doctor recommended just a simple knee brace. It's nothing, not clunky or anything like that. This isn't like reconstructive knee surgery. It just takes a little bit of the pressure off the knee. That's all. Well, he was like, I recommend this. I'm like, okay, so I went to Amazon and I bought it. He could have sent me to a link and I would've gladly have clicked on his link and he would've made $5.

John: Right.

Matt McWilliams: I do not make the $5. What's the point of not making the $5? Am I better or worse served by him making the $5? Actually, the truth is, I would've been better served if he'd sent me to drjohnsmith.com/resources because I wouldn't had to have Googled the complicated name of this thing and clicked the link and bought it that way. I would've been better served and he would've made actually probably more like $8. It's a free $8. That's not quite lunch these days, but it's close. It's half a lunch. Half of lunch at Jersey Mike's.

And so, my point there is it serves your audience because you're recommending products right in your niche or in tangential niches. So, when I think about, I'm going to go with this example because I'm on a roll with this example, and even though I don't know it very well.

Even though we have two youth athletes, I don't know that particular niche, but if you've got youth athletes, here's what I also know. They need to learn goal setting. Are you a goal setting expert because you're good at teaching kids how to take care of their bodies? No. Do you know a little bit? Sure. But are you going to create a course? No. But could you recommend a goal setting course for athletes? Yeah. What about time management? I know this with an 11-year-old who's in seventh grade.

The last season, last fall, we homeschooled, but she takes courses outside of the home. And we overwhelmed her, we accidentally signed her up for too much stuff. And she was doing five hours of homework a night. What about a time management course for teens? Does somebody have that course? Can I sign up for it? And it's a $200 course and I get an $80 affiliate commission. Think about that. Other products that they could buy and things that they could do that not only serve them in my direct area, i.e., supplements or braces or things like that but also in those tangential areas.

John: It sounds like there'd be an infinite number of possibilities the way this can work. And like you said, it's a way to get going much more quickly and with less investment. So, we could go through the whole book today, I'm sure you'd love to do that. But no, this has been really helpful. I like to get something tangible from and just that little lesson was tangible and useful. So again, I just want to thank you for coming on this show today. mattmcwilliams.com is the website. You can get the book there. You can probably find the podcast there. But that's called The Affiliate Guy podcast. And boy, I hope all the best with the continued sales of the book.

Matt McWilliams: Go to passionintoprofitsbook.com/jurica. Connect with me at mattcwilliams.com. Guys, you can reach out to me anytime, connect with me there. It's got my phone number on there so you can text me if you got questions or anything like that. But if you go to the passionsintoprofitsbook.com/jurica, I know you'll put that in the show notes for everybody, John. But if you go there, that's the best place to get the book.

John: And the bonuses really support even what's in the book, because I've seen some of the bonuses when I was helping promote it. So, this is fantastic.

Matt McWilliams: That's exactly what it is. The reality is my first manuscript was 117,000 words.

John: Oh boy.

Matt McWilliams: And the publisher wanted to get it down to 75,000. We ended up about 82,000 but there's still 35,000 words missing. And so, some of these bonuses, essentially, we created a little course around some of the stuff that we took out there. We took some deep dives into some stuff and then there's some bonus stuff. It's like, hey, once you have a list, we have an email marketing masterclass. That's one of the bonuses. You got a list, you got some subscribers. What emails do you write? Well, that's another 15,000 words. I didn't have time to write that in the book. So, we created a course around that though. It's one of the bonuses.

John: This is going to really kickstart people's pursuit of this. This is fantastic. Okay, Matt, thanks a lot again. I really appreciate it. It's been great talking with you.

Matt McWilliams: Hey, thanks for having me, John.

John: Okay, bye-bye.

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Disclaimers:

Many of the links that I refer you to are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you.

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post What Is the Proven Path to a Rewarding Online Business? – 288 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

On this week’s episode of the PNC podcast, a dynamic physician couple explains how they used their passion for real estate investing to create a popular course that teaches what they've learned. 

 

After hearing about their experiences with real estate, and the success of their online courses, I was really pleased when they agreed to come on the podcast. So, today we'll be learning about real estate AND how to create a popular course like theirs.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country, with over 650 graduates. And, unlike other programs, which typically run 1 – 1/2 to 2 years, this program only takes a year to complete. Recently, Economist Magazine ranked the business school #1 in the world for the Most Relevant Executive MBA.

While in the program, you'll participate in a company project, thereby contributing to your organization. As a result, the University of Tennessee PEMBA students bring exceptional value to their organizations.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations. And they've become entrepreneurs and business owners.

By joining the University of Tennessee physician executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills needed to find a career that you really love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office by calling (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Dr. Leti Alto is a board-certified family medicine physician. After finishing medical school at the University of Vermont, Leti completed her residency at Swedish Medical Center in Seattle, Washington, followed by a hospitalist fellowship. She has been a hospitalist since 2011. She also started a company, ModusOne Health, with her husband and served as Chief Medical Officer from 2015-2016, before pursuing her current real estate and online training businesses. 

Dr. Kenji Asakura completed medical school at Johns Hopkins University. After medical school, he started a nutraceutical company, completed an internship at the University of Washington (UW) in Seattle, worked as a management consultant for McKinsey & Company, then returned to UW to repeat his internship and internal medicine residency. He started ModusOne Health with his wife, before pursuing his current passions.

Risk-free Real Estate Investments

Leti and Kenji knew they wanted to achieve financial freedom through multiple income streams after reading Robert Kiyosaki's book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad (this is an affiliate link) together. They saw two paths to achieve that: start an incredibly successful business and exit with a big payoff, or invest in real estate. Pretty quickly, they chose to pursue the latter.

And they quickly discovered two primary benefits to investing in real estate:

Cashflow

Most investors begin with single-family homes or small multi-family properties. Then, you can use the cash flow, and equity in smaller projects to invest in larger residential or commercial properties. And you create a new income stream every time you lease your property.

Tax Savings

Using depreciation and other deductions inherent in real estate, investors can offset income from other sources, drastically reducing them in some cases. The advantages multiply when you become a real estate professional. But you must meet certain income and FTE requirements that the IRS demands to achieve that.

Next Step: Create a Popular Course About Real Estate

When Leti and Kenji first started investing in real estate, they offered advice to people who wanted to replicate what they had achieved. Later, they decided to start a blog, SemiRetiredMD.com, to expand their reach and make the information available to a larger audience of colleagues.

Monetizing their blog later offered another income column to support their financial freedom. And it also allowed them to build a following.

As long as the passion is there to help people… you're going to still help them regardless of whether the material is perfect or not.

– Dr. Kenji Asakura

From the blog, they decided to use what they were teaching to create a popular course based on their real estate expertise, Zero to Freedom through Cash-Flowing Rentals [This is an affiliate link – if you purchase using the link, I receive a commission.] In this 10-week course, Leti and Kenji:

• teach students how to invest in real estate,
• explain how to become a real estate professional,
• provide important tax information, and,
• introduce students to professional connections to make investing easier.

On the episode, Leti and Kenji also discuss how they created their course, and the software platform they use to support it.

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

The post How to Create a Popular Course From Your Passion – 143 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

This week on the podcast, Dr. Alfred Atanda, Jr. describes how he developed a side hustle that brings balance to his clinical practice. We explore his experiences developing expertise in telehealth, and helping others to bring similar passions into their professional lives.

Alfred provides an illuminating look into the growing world of telemedicine. And he makes a strong case for its role in providing quality care, freeing up resources, and preventing physician burnout.

A Natural Interest in Sports Medicine

Alfred was an avid soccer player growing up. His passion for sports and his skill in orthopedic surgery made sports medicine a natural choice. As a result, Dr. Atanda decided to pursue pediatric sports medicine and orthopedic surgery.

A graduate of the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, he completed an internship and an orthopedic surgery residency at the University of Chicago Medical Center. Alfred also completed fellowships in pediatric orthopedic surgery, at Alfred I DuPont Hospital for Children, and in sports medicine surgery, at the Rothman Institute at Thomas Jefferson University.

Alfred now practices at the Alfred I. duPont Hospital for Children in Wilmington, Delaware, where he is the director of the Center for Sports Medicine. He performs arthroscopic surgery as well as general orthopedic and trauma surgical procedures.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country, with over 650 graduates. Unlike other programs, which typically run 1 – 1/2 to 2 years, this program only takes a year to complete. And Economist Magazine recently ranked the business school #1 in the world for the Most Relevant Executive MBA.

University of Tennessee PEMBA students bring exceptional value to their organizations. While in the program, you'll participate in a company project, thereby contributing to your organization.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations. And they've become entrepreneurs and business owners.

By joining the University of Tennessee physician executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to advance your career. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office by calling (865) 974-6526 or go to vitalpe.net/physicianmba.

Why Telehealth?

While on a phone call with a patient experiencing an issue with his brace, the patient suggested using FaceTime. Once able to see the brace, Alfred quickly corrected the issue. Afterward, he realized that the FaceTime interaction precluded the need for a follow-up visit scheduled for later that week.

The patient lived in the Delaware Beaches, so this meant saving him and his parents a 100-mile drive. All for a five minute post-operative visit. This experience led Alfred to explore how to offer remote consultations.

Benefits for patients and providers

In discussing the benefits of telehealth offerings, Dr. Atanda notes that they are not limited to patients. Providers and hospitals also have much to gain from the technology. Most patients are simply looking for information, guidance, or reassurance, particularly in the post-operative stage.

The first 90 days after surgery are not billable. This means that by connecting with post-operative patients remotely, telehealth physicians are saving their patients’ time and energy, the hospital or clinic’s resources, and freeing up space for patients that need in-person care.

An unexpected benefit that Dr. Atanda discovered was an improvement in his own wellbeing. Clinical practice can be grueling. By offering telehealth consultations, Dr. Atanda found that he was able to spend more time with his family and to travel without feeling like he was neglecting his patients.

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Passing it on

After finding his own path to a more fulfilling balance of life and work, Alfred began to consult and speak on the subject. He feels that telehealth can be a useful tool for a wide range of physicians. However, he recognizes that it is not a fix-all.

His journey has not only given him a wealth of expertise in telehealth programs. It has also given him a unique perspective on finding joy and meaning in work as a physician. He believes it's important to explore one's passions and find ways to integrate them into one's life to bring more balance and enjoyment.

Summary

Alfred wants to share what he has learned through this experience. By pursuing this new interest, he found himself organically growing a fulfilling side hustle in telehealth and consulting that enhances his clinical work. He believes he can help other physicians find similar ways to strike a healthy work-life balance in their lives.

Finding new work that reignites joy and passion can ease the burden of an intense medical practice. By doing just that, Dr. Atanda was able to improve his own life and restore his passion for clinical medicine.

Links for today's episode:

• Dr. Alfred Atanda's LinkedIn Page
• Dr. Atanda's email address: orthotelecon@gmail.com
• See above notes for additional links

Thanks to our sponsor…

Thanks to the UT Physician Executive MBA program for sponsoring the show. It’s an outstanding, highly rated, MBA program designed for working physicians. It might be just what you need to prepare for that joyful, well-paying career. You can find out more at vitalpe.net/physicianmba.

I hope to see you next time on the PNC Podcast.

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Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton.

Disclaimers:

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life or business. 

Many of the links that I refer you to, and that you’ll find in the show notes, are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you, that I have personally used or am very familiar with.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. It should not be construed as medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counsellor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

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The post How to Develop a Passionate Side Hustle – 098 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.