The Second Annual Summit is Here – 348

In today's episode, John provides an overview of this year's Summit designed to make your clinical practice great or move on to a better alternative.

With a lineup of expert speakers and a comprehensive agenda, the Summit aims to equip attendees with actionable strategies for improving job satisfaction and exploring nonclinical opportunities.

The second annual Nonclinical Career Summit runs this week. It’s not entirely nonclinical in its scope, however. We have several presentations about starting and running a cash-based private practice. It features twelve experts who share inspirational messages and valuable know-how live over three nights.

It's called Clinical Practice: Make It Great or Move On

And beyond building your cash-based practice, our speakers will show you how to create an asset that can be sold later. Other experts will discuss MedSpas, Infusion Lounges, and other cash-only businesses, using Real Estate to diversify your income and assets, and several nonclinical side gigs including Expert Witness and Medical-Legal Prelitigation Consulting, Medical Affairs Regulatory Consulting, and remote SSDI Application Reviewer.

To learn more check it out at nonclinicalcareersummit.com. Remember that there is NO cost to attend the live event. And if you can’t participate in the Summit, you can purchase the All Access Pass videos (only $39 until April 16, 2024, when the price increases to $79).

Our Episode Sponsor

Dr. Debra Blaine is a physician like many of you, and her greatest challenge was fear. The whole concept of leaving clinical medicine was terrifying. But she is so much happier now as a professional writer and a coach. According to Debra, “It’s like someone turned the oxygen back on.”

If fear is part of your struggle, too, she would like to help you push through those emotional barriers to go after the life you really want. Click this link to schedule a free chat.

Or check out her website at allthingswriting.com/resilience-coaching.

Trends in Addressing Physician Burnout

Physicians have faced increasing stress and burnout in recent years due to corporate employment structures in the healthcare industry. There are several basic approaches to preventing these common consequences of clinical practice.

1. Aggressive Contract Negotiation: Physicians are placing a greater emphasis on negotiating employment contracts to safeguard against burnout inherent in corporate settings. While not discussed extensively in the summit, this strategy is crucial for those considering employment.
2. Identifying Root Causes of Dissatisfaction: Physicians are focusing on identifying and addressing the underlying causes of dissatisfaction, whether it's related to the nature of their vocation, organizational policies, or interpersonal dynamics. Analyzing these factors allows for targeted solutions to alleviate stress and improve job satisfaction.

Highlights of the NonClinical Career Summit

The Nonclinical Career Summit starting on April 16th features a lineup of expert speakers covering various aspects of nonclinical career options for physicians. Here's a sneak peek at what attendees can expect:

1. Speaker Sessions Overview: The Summit will host twelve live presentations, spanning topics from evaluating the need to leave clinical medicine to exploring diverse career paths outside traditional practice settings. Each session offers actionable insights and practical advice tailored to physicians and other clinicians seeking alternative career paths.
2. Logistics and Registration Details: The Summit will run over three consecutive evenings, starting on April 16th, with sessions starting at 7 p.m. Eastern Time. Live attendance is free, but registration is required to access the sessions. Attendees can opt for the All Access Pass for $39, providing access to session recordings and bonuses.

Summary

This week's podcast previews the 2nd Annual Nonclinical Summit featuring 12 expert speakers addressing ways to create a clinical practice outside of the corporate style of healthcare and nonclinical career options. Attendees are encouraged to register early to secure their spot and gain access to valuable resources aimed at supporting career transitions and enhancing job satisfaction.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Reserve Your Free Spot at the 2024 Nonclinical Career Summit
• Purchase Your All Action Pass Videos and Bonuses from the 2024 Summit
• Information about the Nonclinical Career Summit
• Dr. Debra Blaine's Coaching Services

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Episode 348 Transcript

Over the past few years, I've noticed that there is a backlash to the increasing stress and burnout in physicians resulting from employment by large corporations. It seems like the burnout's getting worse and it's related to being employed, losing their autonomy, and really working in that sort of healthcare industrial complex, seeing as many patients as you can in every hour. So in response to that, I think physicians have begun to implement various strategies to prevent or address the burnout, the stress, and the dissatisfaction that's coming.

So these are some of the four trends that I have seen. It's not everything, but I see these as something that's getting more and more common. So first is a bigger emphasis on aggressively negotiating employment contracts.

After all, if you understand that employment leads to dissatisfaction and burnout, and maybe if you've been through it once already, to some extent, you should be able to address the cause of that burnout by building safeguards into your contract. We won't be addressing that in this summit, but it is something I've noticed, and you can take a listen to my interview with Ethan Encana, who's an MBA slash JD, which was posted in February 13th of this year. So if you listen to that, we'll be talking a lot about trying to protect yourself from the things that cause your burnout in your contracts, if you decide to go with the employment route.

Now let's move on to the next one, which is more in keeping with what I want to talk about today. And that is a big thing that physicians are focusing on now, and people are teaching about is finding, identifying, and somehow preventing the root causes of your dissatisfaction and addressing it in new ways. So is it your vocation itself? Is it the practice of medicine? Or is it the organization you're working for and their policies and procedures? Maybe they don't staff properly.

Is it the boss that you report to that's causing your stress and anxiety? Sometimes a fierce conversation can solve the problem. Sometimes moving to a different clinic or hospital will work, but you need to spend the time really analyzing what's, what, what it is about the work that's making things worse. And is it something that you can resolve either in the current situation or at a future one? So that's something we don't talk a lot about on the podcast, although I have had one of our summit speakers, Dyke Drummond, on the podcast to talk about that, but that was several years ago.

Number three is the physicians are implementing new or updated practice models that put more control in the physician's hands. Things such as direct primary care, concierge medicine, and other forms of cash only medical businesses. And this can solve the problem in two ways.

Number one, a lot of times doing that requires you to be in your own practice. So you're starting your own business. So you're not working for someone.

Doesn't mean it's not busy. Doesn't mean it's not challenging, but now you have that autonomy and you're in control. And the other reason is that it's oftentimes the insurance companies, which are driving this whole approach to medicine, where you've got to see as many patients as possible, because they have certain schedules, payment schedules that are difficult to, you know, earn a living on.

And a lot of the drive to see a lot of patients is because of either Medicare and counting it worked RVUs or trying to see so many patients an hour. And that can be overcome by starting your own business and taking cash. And you figure it out in that setting.

Since you don't have to hire two or three people per physician to do the billing, you can cut costs in that way and you can generate income. So it's another thing that I see growing in the past two or three to five years, even. And then the other one is just finding a part-time job.

It's something you can do on the side because you can then either cut your clinical back to part-time also. And then you get to do two different types of jobs. One, a clinical, one, a non-clinical.

You can find, you know, you feel like you're seeing a little more variety of things. You have better hourly compensation sometimes with the non-clinical side, especially those we're going to be teaching at the summit. And again, if it involves starting something like either a practice that just doesn't bill insurance or a med spa or an infusion lounge or a weight loss clinic, you're still at the end of that able to sell it.

And that's a big asset that can really be a big chunk of your retirement and really builds to what I would call it through that process, some career diversity. The other thing that's nice about doing something like one of these side gigs or side jobs is that they can grow to be a little more part of your week as you retire from clinical, let's say, as you get older. The other is it's protecting you so that if your clinical job, which may depend on employment by a hospital or part of a group, that would be protected.

That gives you that leverage, that independence that you otherwise wouldn't have if someone decides to fire you. Okay. So that's why, because of those last three issues that I've been noticing, Tom and I both, that's why we're calling this year's summit clinical practice, make it great or move on.

So there are ways to improve your practice as it is, where it is, or ways to improve it by moving and doing other things. And there are ways to make it better by splitting it with another non-clinical career. And so that's what we're talking about at the summit this year.

And I think it's very apropos. And the tagline is recognize dysfunction, fix it and protect yourself or seek better opportunities. So you can see, as I go through what we're covering during the summit, it kind of brings all of those in and those kinds of terms will probably make better sense to you.

So let's get into the specifics of this year's summit. Last year, we were, just like last year's summit, we're holding it on three consecutive evenings, starting the day after this episode, day or two after this episode is released. I might be releasing it a little early to give people a chance to go through this before the summit actually starts.

And we're doing it that way in the evenings live to enable as many clinicians to attend the free event. So as many people can come for free, making it because we know that Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday evenings are the best time. If we do it during the day or on a weekend, people usually cannot even come for one or two of the hours of presentations.

But by doing it in evenings and doing it live at night, people can carve out some time and maybe at least watch one or two or three of the sessions each night. Now it starts on April 16th at 7 p.m. Eastern time with four live presentations at the top of each hour. They'll end 50 minutes later, followed by a 10-minute break.

And each presentation includes a live Q&A during the last 10 or 15 minutes. It continues on Wednesday, April 17th and Thursday, April 18th, obviously each night starting again at 7 p.m. Eastern. We're holding it on a typical Zoom meeting platform that most of you are very familiar with.

Questions will be submitted using the chat. It could get a little bit confusing if you got a we're going to use the chat and either myself or Tom Davis will curate the questions. You know, sometimes we get two or three that are very much similar and we'll kind of bunch those together.

But that way we can spend 10 minutes at least getting, you know, answers to really the burning questions that come up during the presentation. I think I mentioned earlier, live attendance is absolutely free, but you have to register in advance to attend. That's the only way we can get you the link to attend.

So you just sign up on the link that I'll give you in a minute. And once you're registered, you can come and attend as many or as few sessions as you like. To save your spot, you're encouraged to register using the link that one of our speakers may have sent you.

You know, you might be watching this, but maybe you're already a student of Dr. Drummond's or Dr. Unachukwu or anybody that's helping us here, which I'll be going through in a minute. And you definitely can use their link and then they get credit. If it's easier or if you don't have any link from anybody else, then you should just go to nonclinicalcareersummit.com and you'll be given an option to sign up for the live free event.

And that's also the same link for purchasing the All Access Pass, because we understand that not everybody can attend all the live sessions. So we're making the recordings available for a very low price. That's just $39.

And given all the work that goes into putting this together, that's pretty darn reasonable. Now it does increase on the day that the summit starts. On Thursday morning, the price goes up to $79.

I'm sorry, not Thursday morning, on Tuesday morning, when the summit is starting later that day. But in the morning, it jumps to $79. That's on April 16th.

So if you want to get that really best price, you should sign up for the All Access Pass by Monday, April 15th. And again, it's $39. So you have to get that registration in by midnight on that date.

And again, it's also available at nonclinicalcareersummit.com or by using any speakers affiliate link if they're sending those out to you. All right, well, let's get into the details about the speakers and the lectures. Basically, like I said, we have four presentations per evening.

They're all live except one is being recorded ahead of time because the speaker is actually not available during the summit. But we didn't want to not include him in this thing. So let's just start with the first one.

And I'm going to say that these are not in the order in which they're being presented, but kind of in the order that they flow in my mind in terms of addressing the main thing we're trying to do for the summit. So for example, Dyke Drummond, Dr. Dyke Drummond, very well known. HappyMD is what he's known for.

He's got a podcast. He's been doing this a long time. He's coached thousands of physicians.

And he's going to be speaking on Tuesday night, the first night. And he's going to be answering this question. Do you really need to leave clinical medicine or is it just the job? And the official title, is it just a shit job or boss you want to escape? So really, it's not necessarily clinical medicine or clinical nursing or other clinical specialties that you're working in.

It's oftentimes other things that lead to the dissatisfaction and the burnout, the anxiety, things like that. So he's going to take that question head on. And how do you determine if this is really you should leave medicine or whether you should stick with it, but resolve the problem in a variety of ways.

And some of the ways he's going to talk about is just how you take control of what you're doing, listing the alternative practice models that might solve the problem. And if it is time to leave, let's put out that ideal job description process. So you can assess when you're going somewhere else, is it likely to be a better situation? So the next speaker I want to talk about is Mike Wu Ming, a very good friend of my podcast and myself, and he's written a book.

And he's going to build on what Dyke is telling us from the standpoint of what his experience has been with owning cash-based medical clinics. Okay, so it's still a practice. It's a medical clinic.

And he just describes sort of the mindset changes you have to go through to make this happen. He'll list the four or five financial levels of a physician, what that means, what it means to be a CEO, not only of your business, but of your life. He'll talk about ways to provide medical services outside the insurance industrial complex, if you want to call it that.

Let's see, he'll compare different types of cash-based medical clinics and where he sees future growth. All right, the third one, again, an expert on business in general, Dr. Una, Dr. Nneka Unachukwu. She goes by Dr. Una.

She has one or two podcasts. She's coaching a lot of physicians, and she's got many courses. And she's an expert and does a lot of speaking about creating a successful business.

In her case, I think is a good mix of people she's worked with who have created healthcare businesses, not necessarily a medical practice. Some have created different medical practices. And so she's going to talk about the business practices you must adopt to be successful, to get into a little bit about the importance of branding and marketing.

And again, she likes to focus, and I think she'll touch on this as well, how to build a practice or a business or both that has value and then eventually sell that business for cash out at the end, which again, I've mentioned earlier, is a great way to help segue into your retirement. And I've got just a hint of this because I'm currently in the process of helping my wife sell her own business, which she's been running for 15 years. And so we're going to just find out what it's worth at this point.

And it wasn't really something that we dwelled on up until the last couple of years. And I guess I'd mentioned now that if you do build a business of any sort, you should really always try to think of the eventual selling of that business because we all eventually go away. And even if it means turning it over to a partner in a medical practice, how does it happen? What's the value? Thinking about those things.

So those are the kinds of things that Dr. Una are going to be talking about. Then to kind of round that out and from another perspective, Joe McMenamin, who just was on my podcast, I think last week, but yeah, and he's going to be talking about corporate entities, meaning, you know, LLCs, corporations, things, how to create a legal situation for your business that makes it safe, protects you financially, keeps the tax concerns in mind. He's also going to touch a little bit on contract negotiations or starting a new business, other things to consider besides just the corporate structure.

And he'll be comparing those different legal entities that can help make your business successful. So the next is we're going to get even right into the nitty gritty of some of these cash-based businesses. See now a med spa, many physicians are familiar with, I wouldn't call that a medical practice.

And I don't think you need a license to run a med spa, although it helps if you're a medical director, if you're doing procedures that obviously are licensed and you have insurance for that. Now practice insurance, but she's going to talk about this. I believe she owned her med spa for 15 years.

She started it from the ground up. She grew it, she marketed it, she branded it and she sold it. And they happened not too long ago.

And she actually was able to segue into staying on as a part-time medical director. And so it really worked out well. She's very happy with how things went.

And again, I don't think she was thinking about the sale of it when she started it, you know, 10 or 15 years ago, but it worked out well for her. So she's going to share some of her experiences with that. Next two guests, our speakers are Jennifer Allen and Kimberly Lowe.

Now they're actually each doing an individual presentation because Jennifer is a physician and Kim is a nurse. They're going to discuss their particular experiences and reasons for going into starting an infusion lounge or an infusion center. And both of them will spend a little bit of time talking about what the heck is an infusion lounge.

And it turns out it can be a lot of different things. And let's see for Jennifer, she's going to be focusing too on the basic services they usually provide and how hers is different and who's sort of best qualified, or let's say has the best background and personality to do something like this. And a little bit about the first three steps, prepare to open your own infusion lounge if you decide to do that.

Now during Kim's session, and Jennifer's I think is on the first day, Kim's is on the third day. Again, she's going to tell you why she thinks it's a great investment and describe how the partnership model, you know, is working for them, for her in particular. She's going to hopefully mention some of the other businesses that nurses might be able to get into in healthcare that, you know, not everything is open to a nurse, you know, medical practice per se isn't.

But even in some places as an NP or an APN, you can do something like that. But she's going to talk about, you know, nurses and kind of side businesses that they might be doing that are similar to what she's doing. And she might end there with three mistakes that you should avoid when starting an infusion lounge.

Well, that brings us up to Paul Hercock. He's been on the podcast twice. He's from the UK.

And he created, well, he has a business that uses medical regulatory consultants or medical affairs, regulatory consultants to help meet the needs of the MDR regulations, medical device regulations in the UK and in the EU. Paul is a physician and he's been working in this field for a long time. And so he started hiring people to do this for him, for his business, which is called Mantra Systems, I believe, Mantra Systems.

And then because he was having difficulty finding people, he created a program to teach people how to become medical regulatory affairs consultants. So that's what he's talking about. And I think it's going to be very interesting.

You'll be working remotely for companies that are mostly in the UK and the EU, but you can work from the United States. In fact, we have a lot of people that contact me that are from the EU. You know, they maybe have traveled, they've immigrated to Europe and then they decided to come to the US and they may have a degree from somewhere in Europe, UK, France, you name it.

And there's no reason why they can't continue to do work back there remotely because things are just so easy to do in that way these days. And in fact, Paul told me that they often look to hire American physicians to do this because they have a lot more experience in dealing with the FDA. The MDR regulations are actually relatively new in Europe and the UK.

So that's going to be an interesting one. Very useful, very practical. Then Dr. Armin Feldman is going to come on.

He's been on the podcast a couple of times and he's going to tell us all about medical legal pre-litigation, pre-trial consulting. And I've discussed this before, but it's an awesome side hustle. Don't have to be licensed to do it, but you definitely have to have a medical background.

And he's going to explain exactly how that works, why there's a growing need for the service and how to get the necessary skills to do it. That brings us to Gretchen Green, who's pretty well known for teaching hundreds of physicians, how to become expert witness consultants. She's run her course nine or 10 times.

And so she's going to give us a quick overview of how to become an expert witness, how to build the business side of that, what to do, what not to do, what it entails. And so this is going to be really interesting and an overview for what she does. And then the last one is Tom Davis, known to many of you, I hope, as my past business partner in Newscript, which we've closed down back a few months ago.

But he's here helping with the summit. And he's been involved with companies that provide social security disability reviewers. And it's something that I didn't quite understand or wasn't well aware of.

I'm definitely aware of an independent medical examiner, but there are also other layers of the process of becoming, let's say, qualified for disability payments from social security. And it's a very niche area, but you can definitely get a remote position as a social security disability application reviewer. And it really piqued my interest.

I want to learn more about that. And so this is something that almost any physician can do. I believe they need to be licensed to start out, but I'm not sure you have to remain licensed.

And there are full-time jobs available as well as some part-time jobs, from what I hear. So I'm really interested in hearing Tom describe exactly what that entails and who's qualified and how we would apply for that. And then finally, did I say finally with Tom? There is one more, and it's kind of the icing on the cake.

And it's a little different, but we thought it would be nice to have Dr. Pranay Parikh talk about real estate and how it can make physicians' lives better. So we're not talking about becoming a full-time real estate investor or manager, but as I spoke about earlier, when you can build different sources of income, different sources of assets over time, then why not do that and add that to your portfolio of income streams? And so we thought, well, it's not a clinical type of thing. It's something many physicians are interested in.

So he is going to be talking about real estate. He spent, I don't know, the last five or 10 years in real estate. He actually has a real estate company that he's partnered with.

He's worked with others that you have heard of on the physician side of things. And there's so many different ways of investing in real estate. We thought, okay, Pranay, come on this summit and talk about how a side hustle in real estate can bring emotional and financial rewards, list the benefits and challenges of investing in real estate and describe, we're going to have him describe the three most popular approaches to investing in real estate.

That wraps it up. That covers the 12 lectures that we're bringing during the summit. I'm really looking forward to learning from all of our speakers.

They'll be sharing their wisdom. You'll be able to follow up with them later if you want to. Some of them are going to probably be promoting the summit with us.

Some of them are going to be providing their own bonuses. So if you are already following some of them or on their email list, watch out for their emails because they will be helping to promote it. So even if you're using the free version, if you register through them, you can get any bonus they might be providing as being part of this.

Our team is really excited to bring you this year's summit. We're doing our very best to bring you actionable advice that will help you to improve your current situation, establish your own practice or healthcare business, or create a lucrative side gig so that you can maintain your autonomy, improve your income and satisfaction and support your transition when you withdraw from clinical practice. So there's a lot of benefits to this year's summit.

Sign up for free right now or purchase your all access pass by going to nonclinicalcareersummit.com. The day that this is being released, the all action pass still only costs $39. And I think it'll be that way for another day or two. But if you're listening to this later, you'll have missed that $39.

So on Tuesday, April 16, the price will jump up to $79. Still a very reasonable price if you need to get the recordings. And then after that, when the summit's done, they'll actually jump up in price again.

But for right now, if you want to get in early, go to nonclinicalcareersummit.com. And to make things easier for you, instead of remembering that link, you can find the show notes and some other links by going to nonclinicalphysicians.com/make-your-clinical-practice-great.

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The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

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The post Make Your Clinical Practice Great or Move On appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Interview with Dr. Lisa Jenks – Episode 326

In today's episode, Dr. Lisa Jenks returns to the podcast to describe what she did to prepare to sell her MedSpa, a major milestone in her entrepreneurial journey.

Dr. Jenks' initial interviews with John, in 2018 and 2020, delved into the founding and growing of her MedSpa business. This episode unveils the third major milestone in the life cycle of her business.

Our Show Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Did you know that you can sponsor the Physician Nonclinical Careers Podcast? As a sponsor, you will reach thousands of physicians with each episode to sell your products and services or to build your following. For a modest fee, your message will be heard on the podcast and will continue to reach new listeners for years after it is released.  The message will also appear on the website with over 8,000 monthly visits and in our email newsletter and social media posts. To learn more, contact us at john.jurica.md@gmail.com and include SPONSOR in the Subject Line.

Physician Entrepreneurs: Building a Business Beyond Clinical Practice

In this interview, Dr. Lisa Jenks shares her inspiring journey from emergency medicine to founding and selling a successful MedSpa business. Dr. Jenks recounts the challenges of entrepreneurship, emphasizing the importance of meticulous financial management, maintaining tight operations, and the necessity of good business practices.

She also highlights the rewarding aspects, such as creating a valuable asset, contributing to the growing field of med spas, and achieving a seamless transition into retirement.

Prepare to Sell Your Healthcare Business: Insights from Dr. Lisa Jenks

Dr. Lisa Jenks describes crucial insights you must understand as you prepare to sell any business.

1. Financial Management:
   Dr. Jenks places a high premium on meticulous financial management as a cornerstone of successfully selling a healthcare business. She stresses the importance of impeccable financial records, guided by a skilled financial advisor. A robust financial foundation, including well-documented operational systems and inventory management, enhances the perceived value of the business and streamlines the selling process.
2. Flawless Business Practices:
   To maintain a tight ship throughout the life of the business, she encourages constant vigilance. She highlights the subtle yet persistent rise of expenses if not kept in check. Lisa reminds us that potential buyers are keenly observant of how a business is run. This emphasis ensures that the business's value is in its profitability, bolstered by streamlined and efficient operations.
3. Unforeseen Time Commitment:
   Dr. Jenks candidly shares her experience regarding the time commitment inherent in the sales process. She points out that the process is more protracted and paperwork-intensive than many entrepreneurs anticipate. From the initial discussions with potential buyers to the finalization of contracts, the timeline can extend over many months. Dr. Jenks notes that having a realistic expectation of this time commitment is crucial. Moreover, she highlights the need for patience as negotiations unfold.

Summary

Dr. Lisa Jenks can be reached via email at lisa@genesis-medspa.com, and her work number is 719-579-6890. Additionally, you can explore more about Genesis MedSpa on their website: genesis-medspa.com. Feel free to connect for her insights into the world of MedSpa ownership and how to prepare to sell your business.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Genesis MedSpa Website
• How to Find Peace and Balance as a MedSpa Owner with Dr. Lisa Jenks – 065
• What Makes a Physician MedSpa Owner So Happy? – 131
• This Family Doctor Successfully Merged Medicine and Marketing in a Medspa – 318
• How This Consulting Business Grew Directly From a Patient Need – 289
• How to Fulfill an Academic Need and Spawn a Business with Dr. Jason Ryan – 081
• NewScr!pt

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 326

How to Prepare to Sell Your Growing Healthcare Business - Interview with Dr. Lisa Jenks

John: I've always been fascinated by physicians who left clinical practice to build a business of their own. And while it can entail some long hours and usually a sizable investment of cash to get any sort of major business going, I think to be able to control your own business and to create a valuable asset is definitely something to think about. That's why I'm so pleased to be able to welcome Dr. Lisa Jenks back to the podcast today. Hi Lisa.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Hi, John. Thanks for having me back. I've been looking forward to this.

John: I'm just in the middle of so many weird things that are similar to this. My wife owns a business that she's in the process of selling and this whole concept of physicians building some business that's related to healthcare, related to medical care where you have the expertise. And then at what point does it become an idea that, "Oh, I'm going to sell that because it is a valuable asset?" Just remind us about your transition from emergency medicine to starting the med spa, all those years back. I think that was more than 15 years ago, wasn't it?

Dr. Lisa Jenks: It was. Yes, I started life as an emergency room physician, which I loved. But when baby three came along several decades ago, I threw in the towel. It was just unsustainable. I stayed home for a few years and then opened Genesis in 2007 and sold it in June of this year.

John: Wow. That is a very long story scrunched down into one sentence. But it's fantastic. Time flies and before you know it, we've got to make decisions like that. If I remember correctly, and I'll encourage the listeners to go back to our previous two episodes. I think one was in 2018 and one in 2020. They can get a lot more detail about the startup and the management of it. But give us a little taste of what you envisioned at the beginning and did you think about selling at the beginning when you opened it?

Dr. Lisa Jenks: John, I am embarrassed to tell you how naive I was when I opened my own business. I had no idea what it would entail, and I don't think at that point I was thinking about the end game. I was just thinking about what I could do within medicine, but with not within traditional medicine that would allow me to have a work-life balance and still feel like a doctor. And I decided to open a med spa and really didn't think through it very much.

About three or four years after I opened, another physician who was a pathologist started working very part-time for me. And another one or two years after that, she started buying into the business with the end goal being at that point that she would eventually take over. However, in 2020 for various reasons, she had me buy her shares back and she transitioned out of Genesis.

That was my original plan. And then in 2020 that proved not to come to fruition. And right about the time of 2020, certainly 2021, PE firms started acquiring med spas across the country. And it wasn't unusual for me to get two or three emails a month from a PE firm asking if I was willing to talk to them. And just about a year ago, 18 months ago, I started to think, "Okay, maybe I should talk to a couple of these guys." Because I knew that within the next three to five years I would like to sell, especially if the buyers would want me to stay on for two to three years. And so, then I started thinking more seriously about talking to these PE firms.

John: Nice. Well, when you talked about at the beginning, you had never thought about it. I think most of the people that I've talked to, physicians and non-physicians, when they're starting a new business, it's because they have this idea they want to do it. They want the freedom, although it does take a lot of work, running their own thing, and they never really think about that.

Now, if you talk to people like brokers, they'll tell you, "Well, from the day you start your business, you should think about how you're going to sell it." But very few people in my experience do that really. That's very common. Yeah, this is a very interesting story. Then it became apparent. Of course, you've been so involved in the med spa industry, I'm sure it all matured while you were doing this. And then there's meetings and all of a sudden you start hearing about, "Oh yeah, these private equity firms are buying people out, or people are selling, or maybe they're merging." I don't know. Were those kinds of things talked about in the meetings you would go to when you were with your cohorts who do the med spa business?

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Yes, they were, to some degree. Yes. But I think most of what really made me aware of how this was moving forward with PE firms across the country is, like I say, I just started getting a lot of emails and a lot of interest being shown towards Genesis.

John: Now, are there other entities from what you've learned since this all began, that have been looking at buying med spas or do maybe others? I guess I look at it like the urgent care business. That's how I can compare it. I know that in the old days, everyone just started their own little urgent care and somebody would put two or three together. And then lo and behold, about five or 10 years ago, now you're getting these mega groups where there's 20 and there's 50, and now there's a hundred of these things, and some are bought up by investors, but some are just bought up by larger networks that want to get bigger. Have you heard of other opportunities for those who are interested in maybe leaving or selling their med spa?

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Absolutely. I definitely know here in Colorado of multiple instances where, for example, there's a dermatologist who does aesthetic derm in Vail, and she recently bought a med spa, an existing med spa in Grand Junction. And I know that that has happened here in Colorado Springs in Denver, where a successful med spa owner buys another med spa either in the same area or the town over. But I think most of what's going on right now is PE acquisitions.

John: Tell me about that, when that first started and you said, "Okay, I think I'm going to talk to a couple of these just to learn what I can learn and figure out what's going on." What did you learn at that point that you didn't expect? Or were there things you thought, "Oh, I got to change things a little bit now because they're looking for X, Y, and Z that maybe I only have X and Z or something?"

Dr. Lisa Jenks: The thing that I learned is how long the process takes.

John: Okay.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: How much paperwork it involves and how important it is to have a good, good financial banker on your side who can help you go through your numbers. I have been really fortunate because I have worked with a phenomenal bookkeeper, accountant, and business advisor pretty much since I opened Genesis.

And to anyone who runs any business, and certainly once you start thinking about selling, having your financials just in absolute impeccable order is so, so important. And I feel very grateful that mine have been, and that made the process easier.

Keeping track of inventory and having a history of having done that, is so, so important. And having all of your operational systems written down is critically important too. So, those were the things that I was really proud and happy to realize that I had in good shape.

John: Now when this whole process started, and you were considering this, you had a pretty large team at that point already. Is that correct? From what I remember, you had all kinds of professionals working with you.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Well, I have for the last, whatever, five years or so, had a staff of 17.

John: Okay.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: And then, as I say, just had a business advisor, outside bookkeeper and outside accountant working alongside of me ever since my inception.

John: Now, did you change anything once you really started getting serious about selling? Was there something you had to change or did you have plans that maybe you either accelerated or decelerate? Did that affect that process?

Dr. Lisa Jenks: One thing that I changed, on the advice of my business advisor, I increased the hours of my nurse injectors and decreased my hours a little bit. And the reason that I did that is I did not want new owners or potential buyers, potential owners, looking at my business and thinking that everything depended upon me being here. That I was the one bringing in all of the income. And because I've worked full time in the practice, I am responsible for a large amount of the income, but obviously new buyers know that I'm selling because I want to not be here in the near future. And so, having them able to look and see that other people are bringing in large amounts of the income is important. That was the one thing that I changed probably in 2020.

John: Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. This is kind of like the issue that comes up with trying to sell a medical practice, let's say a family physician or a pediatrician. They're generating all the income. So, what is the asset really worth? Without you committing to stay for the next 10 years it's not much you.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Exactly.

John: Because you're going to have to hire your replacement or they're going to have to. Luckily the planning in businesses like you're doing, you can leverage yourself and to where you're supervising and other people are doing a lot of the face-to-face work. That definitely helps a lot.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Yes, yes. And I'm sure you know that the way this works for businesses is they take your income minus things like taxes and interest and they multiply it by a certain multiple. And that varies from industry to industry is what that multiple typically is. And that's the rough idea of what you're selling price is.

To have a good financial banker that can help with this is really critical as well. For example, I give my staff, I've always given my staff a certain number of free services as part of their wages for working here. And we always subtract that from our income on our P&L. Because then to the IRS, it looks like I'm making less money, which is what I want to have happen in a perfectly legal way. But a good financial banker will then look at potential buyers and say, "You don't have to continue giving these free services. And if you had not, if you choose not to, then your potential income would be even more than the P&L is showing." So, having somebody to guide me through things like that was incredibly helpful.

John: Now, I know with some businesses that sell, a small businesses in particular, they'll use a broker, but it sounds like you didn't need to use a broker because you had enough of that expertise in your banker and your advisors and the other people you were working with.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Well, that and these PE firms were searching me out. And I think if I had two years from now, been really, really ready to retire and nobody is contacting me, I would've had to have gone to a broker to try and put me in touch with interested buyers. It worked out very well. Yes, yes.

John: Good planning on your part.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Thank you.

John: I think the planning is getting into a business that's very growing and popular. And luckily, definitely there were buyers out there looking to get what you had created. I was going to ask you what you would do differently at the beginning, but it sounds like you've covered everything in terms of how to prepare for the sale. Just good business practices, good policies and procedures, making sure everything's written down as far as how things are run. And once all your ducks are in a row.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Another important thing, it's easy as a business owner to fall into a sense of complacency, especially if you're running in the black and if you feel like you're growing a little bit every year. But it's so important just to maintain a tight ship and it constantly astounds me how easy it is for expenses to just balloon a little bit and then balloon a little bit more. And it's nothing big, it's nothing extravagant. It's not that any of the staff are buying things that they shouldn't buy necessarily, but if you, as the business owner aren't really keeping track of all of that and aren't perhaps calling the phone company once a year to argue against the 20% increase that they're trying to give you, how the expenses can take over.

And so, I think just keeping those as low as possible at all times, which is tough when you're running a business and you want to provide your staff and your customers with the very best experience that you can, which takes money to do, but really, really trying to run a tight ship is so important.

John: You alluded to this earlier, but what was the whole process, the time of it? Did it take a year? Did it take two years, nine months? Where did you fall?

Dr. Lisa Jenks: August of 2022, they first approached me and they were a relatively small company. They seemed very personable. I had several phone conversations with them. They talked about their philosophy of maintaining the atmosphere. They buy successful med spas and they want to help them be more successful. They don't want to come in and change everything. And I really like that attitude. Then I sent them all of my financials, and we signed an agreement that I would not talk to other companies for, I think it was 90 days or 120 days while we went through the process. And probably December or so came up with a mutually agreeable price, but then it was not until June that all of the paperwork, all of the details got hammered out and it was June 9th that the actual sale occurred.

John: Well, the nice thing about selling to let's say private equity firm rather than let's say someone else that owns a little network or something, is they're going to have the process down pretty well from their previous purchases and they can pretty much demand it. This is what we'll do and this is what we need to see. If we can see this and we feel good about it, then we'll buy it. It's a little different when you're working with let's say someone else who owned two or three med spas and were doing things however they were doing it and never bought another one.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Exactly. And this has been great for my staff. I was not able to offer health insurance to my staff, and this company is offering health insurance. Their benefits package is a little bit better as far as vacation and PTO and things like that. So, that's been nice to see.

John: Very nice. And it doesn't sound like... I would expect about a year on average for a relatively smooth just from the people I've spoken with.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: I think it went very well. And our plan is that I signed a contract to continue working about 25 hours a week for two years, and then we will reassess. And I'm working both as medical director and then also still seeing patients and doing what I love to do. But this has just worked out great. The money from the sale has allowed me to do some fun things like buy a cabin up in the mountains and spend more time with my grand babies. And yet I was not ready to completely stop working. So, this has just been a really, really nice way for me to ease into retirement.

John: Now, did you get a sense that if you were in let's say a lot bigger of a hurry to leave, did they seem to be flexible to do maybe a year or six months? Were they pushing for an extended period where you're there or was that pretty flexible?

Dr. Lisa Jenks: That's a great question and I'm not sure I know the answer to that because I think they were the ones that floated two years, and I was like, yeah, that sounds great. So we really didn't have any discussion or debate about that. I'm not sure what would've happened if I had said, "Sorry, you've only got me for six months." Or if I had said I want to be here five years, I don't know. They may not have wanted either one of those, or they may have been fine with either one of those. I don't know.

John: It sounds like the timing was just perfect though, because you were both looking at the same number in terms of "Oh yeah, this will work out." The only reason I ask is because for some people, it's like when you're in medicine and you get burnt out, you reach a point where you're done and you want to sell. And we think it takes a long time to get out of your practice when you've been in it for several years, but most people can get out in six months or less if they really push it. But you cannot get out of your own business in less than a year unless you have someone lined up ahead of time to buy it and they're going to want you to stay for a while. So, you just had everything worked out so great. You're just the prime example of how to sell your business.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Well, thank you. It really did. I feel very, very blessed. And it did, the timing could not have been better.

John: I think this is just a great inspiration for physicians who have maybe thought about the idea, "Well, can I do my own business?" And really just hearing your story reminds us, "Okay, not only can I find something good that I want to do, that I'll enjoy doing, that'll pay well. And if I think in advance I'll have this asset I can sell at the end." I think it inspires all of us to kind of plan ahead and say, "This might be a definite option."

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Well, thank you. And I hope that anybody who has questions or wants to talk to me more will feel free to contact me. My email is lisa@genesis-medspa.com. And my work number here is 719-579-6890. I love, love, love talking to anyone about starting a med spa, running a med spa, and now I can speak to selling to a med spa.

John: Fantastic. I appreciate you sharing that. The website for the spas is genesis-medsspa.com, and they can use that phone number. I'll put all this in my show notes. They can use your email. They could find you on LinkedIn. And what else are you up to? I know in the past you were doing some mentoring, coaching, that kind of thing. So, tell us more a little bit about that, which is obviously part and parcel of your involvement as a med spa owner.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: One weekend a month I hold classes here at Genesis, and alternate months between teaching injectables, meaning neurotoxins and fillers and then teaching PDO threading. And I love doing that. The students for the class range from estheticians to MDs and everybody in between. They're very small classes, a lot of hands-on. And so, those are really, really fun and I would love to tell anybody who's interested more about that.

And then I do some consulting and mentoring, John. I love doing that. It hasn't really taken off as much as I had hoped perhaps it would in the early days, but I do every so often get emails from doctors who are wanting to start med spas and we'll have conversations with them. Some of them even have flown out to shadow me here at Genesis and just see a little bit more about what this world is like, which I really enjoy.

John: Well, that'd be a fantastic resource. If I was thinking of starting a med spa, that would be perfect. The old shadowing, like we did when we were in med school or thinking of going to med school and really see how things run. That'd be fantastic. And they can reach you just through the phone number and the emails that you talked about a minute ago.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Yes.

John: All right. Well, I just want to say congratulations. You're making this fantastic transition, as you will, as you want to. Whether you retire or not retire, who knows what you'll do 3, 4, 5 years down the road. But this is really again, it's an inspiration to all of us. I appreciate you taking the time to come today.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Well, thank you. I appreciate you inviting me and allowing me to share this exciting news with everybody.

John: It's been great. I was going to say who knew when you were going to emergency medicine residency that someday you'd be a business owner and med spa practitioner?

Dr. Lisa Jenks: I can tell you I sold my med spa for way, way, way more money than I would've sold my ER scrubs to the next doc coming in when I retired.

John: Yeah, there would've been no equity in that business. All right, Lisa, thanks a lot and maybe we'll follow up again sometime down the road but it's been a pleasure.

Dr. Lisa Jenks: Thanks so much, John. It's always good talking to you. Bye.

John: Bye-Bye.

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The post How to Prepare to Sell Your Growing Healthcare Business appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Interview with Dr. Rachael Degurse

In today's episode, Dr. Rachael Degurse describes how she escaped corporate-style practice by merging medicine and marketing to open a medspa. She shares her inspirational journey from traditional medical practice to successful entrepreneur in the MedSpa industry.

Dr. Rachael Degurse is a board-certified family physician who took a bold leap after years in traditional medical practice. Her journey led to the creation of Pearl Skin & Body Rejuvenation, an intriguing MedSpa in Colorado. There she masterfully merges her medical skills with entrepreneurial acumen.

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This week's episode sponsor is the From Here to There: Leveraging Virtual Medicine Program from Sandrow Consulting.

Are you ready to say goodbye to burnout, take control of your schedule, increase your earnings, and enjoy more quality time with your family? You’re probably wondering how to do that without getting a new certification or learning a whole new set of nonclinical skills.

Here's the answer: The quickest way to achieve more freedom and joy is to leverage virtual medicine.

Dr. Cherisa Sandrow and I discussed this in Podcast Episode 266. Cherisa and her team are now preparing to relaunch their comprehensive program for building and running your own telehealth business.

If you want to learn the tools and skills you need to live life on your own terms – then you should check it out today. After completing the 10-week program, you’ll be ready to take your career to the next level.

The program starts soon, and there are a limited number of openings. To help you get a glimpse into the program, Sandrow Consulting is offering a series of FREE Webinars. Go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/freedom to sign up and learn why telehealth is the quickest way to begin your career journey.

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We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Medicine and Marketing: An Entrepreneur's Journey

Dr. Degurse's decision to start her own business, Pearl Skin & Body Rejuvenation, stemmed from her desire for greater control over her life and medical practice. She valued the ability to manage her schedule and time spent with each patient, which she felt was slipping away in the traditional healthcare system.

While considering entrepreneurship, Dr. Degurse explored various business ideas but ultimately settled on the medspa industry. This decision was driven by her belief that aesthetic medicine, particularly in a traditional medspa setting, offered her the opportunity to retain her medical identity while owning a small business. She found this choice to be the best of both worlds, allowing her to practice medicine and run her business her way.

Growth & Vision: Inside Pearl Skin & Body Rejuvenation

When starting her medspa business, Rachael embarked on a steep learning curve. Apart from the intricacies of running a business, she had to acquire new skills related to various cosmetic procedures. She began with entry-level treatments like facials and Botox. She gradually expanded her skill set by attending courses, conferences, and self-learning. This ongoing education allowed her to offer a wider range of services over time.

Pearl Skin & Body Rejuvenation, started with basic procedures. It now offers a comprehensive range of aesthetic services. These services include facials, neurotoxin injections (such as Botox), laser procedures, microneedling, radiofrequency noninvasive body contouring, and medically supervised weight loss.

She has plans to introduce more complex procedures like fillers in the future. Dr. Degurse's vision involves continuing to expand her service offerings as her business grows. And she really enjoys the procedural aspects which benefit from her education and training as a physician.

Summary

Dr. Rachael Degurse's entrepreneurial journey highlights the benefits of autonomy and aligning one's business with personal and professional values. Her commitment to continuous self-improvement and expanding her services fulfills her meeting her clients' needs.

To connect with Dr. Degurse and explore insights into opening a med spa or business, you can find her on LinkedIn under Dr. Rachael Degurse. For more information about her medspa and services, visit pearlskinbody.com.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

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Links for Today's Episode:

• Pearl Skin & Body Rejuvenation
• Dr. Rachael Degurse LinkedIn
• From Here to There: Leveraging Virtual Medicine
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Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 318

This Family Doctor Successfully Merged Marketing and Medicine in a Medspa

- Interview with Dr. Rachael Degurse

John: I'm really happy to have today's guest here because for some reason I'm drawn to people that start out in medicine and they have to follow this entrepreneurial bent that they have. Going to school and residency for 11 to 15 or 20 years isn't really necessarily the way to become an entrepreneur, but there's a small set of physicians that do it because they want to control what they're doing, and they want to get away from the hassle and the burden of the corporate style of medicine. I'm really happy to have today's guest here. Welcome, Dr. Rachel Degurse.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Hi, John. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

John: Yes. I've been talking recently on the podcast a couple times about small businesses in general, and what you do obviously is a startup small business, and it's hopefully going to grow a lot. But you've already taken that plunge and you've done a lot of the work to get this thing going. And so, I like catching up with physicians that have done that. I'm just glad that you're here to answer my questions today.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Thanks. Thanks. I'm excited to be here and talk about what we're doing.

John: Also a favor because you're a family physician, which I am too. So, why don't we start like we always do with a little bit of your story in terms of your education and practice, and then how and when you started this new venture?

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Okay. As you mentioned, I'm a family medicine physician trained, and I've been doing this since 2013. I came to Colorado, I'm a native from Colorado and came back here after residency and got a job in a federally qualified health center. I worked that for two years and then I went into a group practice setting that was physician owned and led, and I've been there since, but it's no longer physician owned. It got purchased by a large corporation, twice actually.

And since then, my clinical career has been much different than what I envisioned when I joined medicine. And that's when I decided to open my med spa because it gave me an opportunity to get some of the control back and taking care of my patients and the more autonomy that I enjoyed. That's why I decided to open this. And I officially opened the doors April of 2022 but it's been in the work since December of 2021. So it took me a couple months before I actually opened my doors. But I've been doing that part-time in addition to my clinical work at my day job is what I like to call it, ever since.

John: Well, from what I can tell from the website and maybe LinkedIn and other things that I've seen, you've got a pretty broad array of services. You've got come a long way. It takes at least six months to a year to really plan a business. So it sounds like you're right on schedule as far as the planning part, like you said, you had to spend a few months.

But before we get into that in detail, I want to just talk about you as an entrepreneur. There are a lot of things a physician can do when they get frustrated or they just want to make some kind of a change. So, how did you come to think, "Okay, I think my own business." Is it the control issue? Is it just the flexibility? What is about that?

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Well, firstly, I never grew up wanting to be a business owner. In fact, I had an opportunity to join a practice right out of residency that was owned by a physician who wanted to retire and turn it over to kind of like some fresh blood. And I turned down that opportunity. It just didn't seem like something that I would necessarily want to do. However I have learned that being in control of your own life is very important.

And that's something that I've learned to value more and more especially as there's been changes in the way healthcare is being run. So, not only control of my schedule and my day, but control of how many patients I want to see and how long I feel like I need to take with them. And just being able to have that time to develop my relationships with my patients again, where I feel like I've lost a lot of that in my current clinical, traditional family medicine.

There was definitely a time when I thought, "Well, maybe I just go to a different office or different practice", but I just felt like the face of medicine was changing so much that I couldn't guarantee I would be able to regain some of that back that I had lost in a different setting that might get sold.

The only way I could control that completely, was to be my own boss and decide whether or not I would sell my business. And yeah, it's been a real joy, learning all the ins and outs of how to grow a business. It's also been a huge challenge, but that's kind of part of it.

John: A couple questions about that then. First, going way back. Many of the people that listen, let's say have been in practice longer than you, perhaps. I have all ages and lots of different locations around the world and in the US and so forth, but there's a lot of people that have been 20, 30 years in practice. And so, my question to you is, back 13 years ago and you're in the middle of that transition and coming from residency, was there any evidence, any inkling that at that time, either during your training or even early into your practice that you thought this might all just go away because of the changes, or was it just like a brand new concept?

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Perhaps I'm naive, but I did not expect healthcare to go quite as much the way it has. I grew up going to a doctor who was a private practitioner, worked solo, didn't have a partner, and wasn't owned by an organization. And that's all I knew growing up. I just assumed that there's some practices that were affiliated with hospitals, but for the most part a family medicine doctor was a business owner essentially, or they worked in a group with other people and they had a shared business. So, that's what I fully expected to go into. And like I said, perhaps that was naive of me, but it has not turned out that way.

John: Well, the reason I ask is because I think even to this day it seems pretty obvious to someone who's gone through it. And I've interviewed many guests who actually made a change because of the very issue you brought up, which is their company was bought or whether it was a practice or maybe it was more of a small hospital based practice, but then there was some large corporation that bought it.

And I still think that the med students and the residents, depending on where they are, they have no idea that this corporate takeover of medicine is well underway. And if it hasn't affected them yet, it probably will. And I almost blame the faculty for not letting their students and residents know that what we're in right now is kind of a bubble and life's going to be different. But I don't know.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Well, thank you for not assuming I was naive to not know that.

John: No, I think it's still happening, which is really frustrating to my colleagues and some that I talked to about this. Okay. Now the other thing. You came to the realization that you need more control, more freedom to do things the way you want to do and not be threatened by the next takeover or the next merger, whatever. Did you consider any other businesses besides the med spa and how did you come to that choice?

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Yeah. Well, I sort of jokingly considered some other businesses. There was a brief time where I talked about becoming an alpaca farmer. I did toy with local honey, but in all honesty, this was the only business that truly made me feel like I could still practice medicine, and own my own business because the aesthetic medicine realm is still relatively untouched by corporations, although that is changing sort of.

There are some private equity companies that are trying to acquire med spas and there's definitely some larger chain med spa type places. Most likely laser hair removal and that sort of thing, but for the most part, a traditional med spa is still very much like small business ownership. And it still feels like medicine to me. Because I didn't want to just give up on my dream of being a doctor. I still felt like I needed that and wanted that in some capacity. And interacting with patients is very important to me. This gave me kind of what I felt like was the best of both worlds.

John: Yeah, that makes sense. I kind of equated somewhat to becoming a coach, but that's more like in the realm of the mental health wellbeing. A coach is a couple steps away from a therapist, but you know what I'm getting at.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Yeah.

John: And it's something you can do independently and build a business around. But I could see the interest in being sort of someone that's taken care of, what is the largest organ in the body. Isn't it the skin, the largest organ?

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Absolutely.

John: And so, skin and beauty and hair and all that kind of thing. And you get to do some procedures. So, to me that makes perfect sense. Did you have to do anything to prepare or let me just put another way. What were the things you had to learn the most about let's say at the beginning in terms of beginning this venture?

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Yeah, it's actually been quite a steep learning curve. Let's just forget about all of the learning how to run a business part because that I did not know anything about. I just thought you just come up with a name and put out your shingle and then it's all good. But it's not.

I definitely had to learn a whole new set of skill sets. I had to take courses specifically for all of the procedures that I perform. And I started with, still to this day, because I'm the only one doing any of the procedures, everything we offer, I have to learn how to do. I started with the easiest most entry level procedures possible. Facials, Botox.

And then I've just gradually increased my skills since then, doing a lot more conferences and lectures and book learning and breeding and podcasts and all of those things I do in all of my free time, what limited it is, to just become better and better honing my craft so to speak. But it's definitely out there. There's a lot of opportunities to go to courses all over the country, and a lot more online and digital resources compared to maybe in the past. So, it's definitely possible to do.

John: That helps. That helps. As far as the business side, one of the things that I hear about is, and that physicians typically don't think about unless they're really aggressive in their practice, and that's marketing. Was that a big part of the business aspect that you had to learn more about?

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Absolutely. I hadn't even heard the term SEO before. Just things like that that I didn't even know. I didn't know. I had to learn. Fortunately, I am very lucky to have my husband who's been a real big partner with me in this. He has a business background. He comes from an entrepreneur family, so he's just been huge and helping me with a lot of that. He does most of our social media marketing and SEO. I'm lucky in that I haven't truly had to learn all of that information. Of course I still know the terminology and that's still very important, but marketing is essential as far as getting your name out there because I just thought it would be easy to open up and have people come in. And that is definitely not the case. So, that's been really a big factor in getting us off the ground.

John: Most typical entrepreneurs have a great idea and decide they're going to start something, they're not good at everything. And so, they always rely on other people to fill in. My wife runs a business so I know exactly what you're talking about. And she's excellent at certain things and then in other things maybe she needs a little help, but that's just every business owner.

I've talked to, like I said, other med spa owners and there are, like you said, so many conferences and they probably go into pretty great depth in terms of marketing for that type of business, which helps a lot.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Absolutely. A lot of the conferences are kind of a combination of business development and learning. So, that's very helpful.

John: Nice. Nice. Okay. Now tell us more about the actual med spa and also you're doing a lot of different procedures now. Tell us about which ones you really enjoy or which ones do you think are the most helpful? Just to get into kind of the nuts and bolts of what a med spa does, at least in your case, so that people who are thinking about this can get some ideas.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Sure. My med spa is in a professional complex building with other suites. I just have a small suite in this building. It's about a thousand square feet, so it's very efficient so to speak. I have just me, I've got my chair and I offer facials, neurotoxin injection. I have three different devices. I have a laser that can do IPL procedures. I can do microneedling, radiofrequency microneedling and I have a non-invasive body contouring machine. I do offer medically supervised weight loss. And I'm getting ready to offer my filler.

Filler by far is in my opinion the riskiest procedure you can offer. So that's why it's taken me the longest to add it on because I just want to make sure that I am a hundred percent solid in being comfortable with that procedure before I add it.

That's pretty much almost everything that you can offer in the aesthetic world in just a very small space. It doesn't take a lot of footprint to offer most of these things. You just have to be efficient with your space and your time.

Anyone that I would suggest who wants to offer or start a med spa, they need to be able to offer neurotoxin. That's what we call kind of the gateway drug to aesthetics. Most people will start with wanting to do Botox or something very similar to that just to relax the wrinkles. And then that kind of opens the door to discussing other procedures and services that people might want. And then sometimes people say they want Botox, but they want it to treat a problem that isn't actually resolved with Botox.

It's just a very important thing to be able to offer right away. I started off with offering facials and Botox, and those were the only two things that I offered for quite a while. And then about eight months ago, I purchased my first laser device and that really expanded how much I could offer. And then about a month ago is when we brought in the radiofrequency microneedle and the non-invasive body contouring right around when I started my weight loss program. So, it's kind of been ramping up in the past couple of months offering more things.

John: Well, this is another question. It's a little bit off the topic in terms of the actual services you're providing, but as you're trying to ramp up, as you are ramping up and you're obviously committing a lot of time and effort and of course, investment as well. How does that work in terms of negotiating with your current employer? Just any tips on how to... People are usually fear having that conversation. Now usually when they have the conversation it goes better than they thought because we just tend to be pessimists when we're talking about that. What is your advice and what is your experience in trying to slowly make that change?

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Well, when I decided to open this, I had already had a day off during the week. I was working there four days a week, and then I started being able to work in my med spa three days a week. Yeah, that's a seven day work week but if you're going to be building your business, you kind of have to work every day. Even if you're not open every day, you're working every day.

John: Right.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: So, that's how it initially started. And then for better or worse, we did have some attrition in our office where we had some providers leave, and that kind of helped me to open the door and be like, "I'm planning on opening this business and I need a little bit more time to do that. Now I will stay committed to you for a period of time as long as you let me have a little bit more time to do my business."

And it's really only another half a day a week, which is not a lot as far as me leaving my other job for that half a day. But it does allow me to be open a whole other day here, which time is money when it comes to having a business, so you got to be open as much as you can.

That's how I started, kind of scaling back. Now I think I've probably maxed out the ability for cutting down my hours there. The next step is going to have to be the leap of leaving there if I'm going to, and I do have kind of a timeline where that might be a possibility. We'll see if that actually pans out. But so far I don't know that I have a great solution to have that conversation unless you have a lot of leverage like I did.

John: Well, it's good to use that leverage and plan ahead. We didn't discuss this beforehand, but I'm going to ask this question in that. Do you have much of a notice requirement, I guess? Some people think I'm going to do this, and they realize they have a nine month or a year notice for leaving a job, which is ridiculous, obviously. But you've already kind of considered that and have that worked into your plan, I'm assuming?

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Yes. I have a 90 day notice, so it's very generous on my end.

John: Yeah. Yeah. That's better than most. Most people are stuck for six months unless someone's trying to kick them out. Because there's a shortage of physicians and it's because of the changes in medicine, but it sounds like you're positioned well to pull a trigger when you get there.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: That's the goal. The goal is to be able to replace as much of my income as possible with med spa income before I officially leave. Hopefully it will happen.

John: It's always a good plan, right? You don't want to have that dip that lasts longer than you need to. Now you were talking about fillers. I'm going to switch back to the medical side in my mind. What's a medical part of it? That sounds like it's a little more complex. Is it typically done by non-physicians? Are they technicians? Are they some kind of licensed professional normally? How does that work?

Dr. Rachael Degurse: That's a good question. It's actually state by state dependent on who can perform what procedures. Some states are more strict than others. New Jersey being an example of a very strict state that most procedures, including operating of a laser, needs to be performed by a physician. That's a state where it's great if you are a physician to open a med spa. Not so great if you're not a physician or you want to be opening a med spa, but not doing all of the procedures yourself and having extenders.

You really need to look up the state specific laws about what you can do yourself and what you can delegate to other people. But in some states, a filler can be injected by anybody that you delegate to, that you say is qualified to perform that procedure. In most cases, the lowest level of training that you're going to encounter with that is like an RN performing a filler procedure.

John: Is there a license for med spa where you're working? Or is that just another business?

Dr. Rachael Degurse: You just need a business license. So, it's a little gray area.

John: The reason I ask, I'm familiar with what I talk about in the podcast, like senior care business. And those didn't used to be licensed, but in most states now they are licensed. So, it's just something to remember another licensed, another hoop to jump through.

What do you think long term, looking forward, are there any more procedures that can be done down the road that you might be interested in? For that matter or other, I've seen med spas bring all kinds of services in. What are you planning for the next few years once you ramp up even more?

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Yeah. Once I'm able to expand into a more medical sterile space, then there are some procedures that are more invasive, that are essentially like a nonsurgical face lifts and body lifts that I would be very interested in offering. And those do really need to be performed by a physician because it's kind of like liposuction in the office. So you have to be a little bit more trained and qualified to perform something like that.

John: Okay. Well, it sounds like you're on your way. Tell us more about how to find you in your spa, where you're located or where the website is and that sort of thing.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Well, I would love to connect with anybody who's interested in opening a med spa or has questions about what it might look like for them or even if they just had questions about opening business. And they can find me on LinkedIn under Dr. Rachel Degurse. And certainly if you have more interest in our business itself or med spa, you can look for us on our website at pearlskinbody.com.

John: All right. I'll definitely put those links in, for sure. And if people have questions or if they're geographically anywhere within distance they can talk to you and maybe even visit you, at some point.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Yeah, I would love that.

John: I'm just thinking if there's anything else that I've forgotten today. Any advice you have for my listeners, basically who may be where you were a few years ago in terms of either this opportunity or just doing something outside of a corporate style of medicine.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Absolutely. Firstly, I think one of the things that I hear from some physicians who are hesitant to just do something else but they're interested is I hear a lot that "I don't have any other skills", but when it comes down to it, that's just never true. When it comes to being a doctor, you've developed a massive amount of skills over years of training and just fortitude and diligence and like working hard. You can translate that into just about anything that you want to do. You just have to put your mind to it and you can do it. Because if you got through residency, then you can get through just about anything else. So, that's one thing I would say to people.

And then secondly, I sort of jumped into this completely headfirst. I don't know that I did a ton of planning about the business part before I started. I wish I would've done a little bit more of that, learned about business taxes before I actually opened my business. That would've been great.

I would just encourage people to plan a little bit. While in advance of opening your doors, make sure you've researched the laws in your state, how to set up your books, all of those things, before you actually start working. I've kind of learned a lot of the things on the way and it would've been maybe a little bit easier for me to research more ahead of time, but for what it's worth, I was committed to doing it and I just jumped in and made it happen. So there's pros and cons to that, but I would just encourage people to do more research.

John: When I talk to other people, and I've been advised what I'm going to say here in a second, it's hard when you're starting a business because you don't want to spend money upfront that you could be used for building your business and so forth. But I'd say in most cases it makes sense to consult with an attorney and an accountant. Even though your books might not really seem like they're going to be very complicated, but to me it's worth a thousand bucks or a few hundred bucks just to have that conversation. They might tell you, "Look, all you got to do is fill this paper out, sign here and you're done" or set up your books a certain way, but you just never know. You're getting coaching basically when you do that. So, I would agree with what you said.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Yeah. And like I said, I'm happy to answer any questions for people because I did sort of learn about these things on the fly.

John: Yeah. It's always good to be able to say here's the thing I did wrong, so I want you to do it just a little bit better than I did because I didn't plan it out completely, or I didn't know what I didn't know. That's very common. Which actually brings me to another question that I wanted to ask you earlier.

I see on LinkedIn and maybe on your website more so that you're doing some more speaking and I think even on the website mentioned that you don't mind sharing with others about your story. So tell me, are you doing some formal speaking? Is some of that for marketing purposes? Is that some of that to connect with other entrepreneurs? It just sounded pretty interesting when I saw that.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Yeah, I would love to do more speaking and more podcasts like this or even more in-person formal engagements. One of the things that I'm pretty passionate about is hopefully finding a way to change the face of healthcare. I think that corporate takeovers of healthcare doesn't do anybody any service in the long run for our patients or for us as providers.

And I think part of what might change some of that is talking about what is this healthcare landscape that we're encountering now, just like you said, but I think a lot of people coming out of training don't realize that this is happening. And certainly our patients don't know what's happening.

I would like to talk more about that and talk about how people can participate in change for that and hopefully providers and physicians and patients can find a better experience for all of us and not be ruled by the big corporations anymore.

John: Yeah, we look at it as physicians and it's frustrating because we're running patients through, we don't have enough time to spend with them and really hear what their issues are. But I can't imagine that for the patients, it's just as bad. People that I know that go to the doctor, I was not rewarding at all. I went in there, the nurse was rude, pushed me through, I had three minutes with the doctor and then I had to move on. And it's not like the doctors are choosing to do that just with the RVUs and other things, it's not a good system.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: It's not, and there's far more patients out there than there are physicians. And I think that as physicians, most of us are, for lack of a better word, people pleasers. We don't want to make waves or none of us picture ourselves as being the leaders of businesses or large organizations. We just want to see our patients and take care of them and go home. But for us to be able to continue to do that and do it well, something needs to change and I'm pretty passionate talking about that.

John: Good. That's also very helpful to your community to get the word out and also to other prospective medical students who maybe really don't know what they're getting into. And they have to think long and hard about that, especially if they're going into huge levels of debt, which kind of binds them into something that they may end up not enjoying.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: Absolutely.

John: All right, Rachel. I guess I've taken up enough of your time today. So, this has been really good though.To

Dr. Rachael Degurse: This is a good conversation. Thank you.

John: You're welcome. It's been fun. I hope I can follow up with you sometime down the road. I like to follow up with the people particularly that have started new businesses. Because you just never know, a year or two down the road, you can learn a lot more from my guests when they've been doing something like you have for a longer period of time. I guess with that I'll say goodbye.

Dr. Rachael Degurse: All right, thank you.

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Disclaimers:

Many of the links that I refer you to are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you.

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post This Family Doctor Successfully Merged Medicine and Marketing in a Medspa – 318 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

On this week’s episode of the PNC podcast, I’ve invited physician medspa owner Lisa Jenks back for a follow-up interview about medical aesthetics and her business, Genesis MedSpa.

Lisa is a former emergency room physician who went into medical aesthetics 13 years ago. She joined me on this podcast about a year ago. This week we catch up, learn more about her business, and about a new consulting business she started.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country, with over 650 graduates. And, unlike other programs, which typically run 1 – 1/2 to 2 years, this program only takes a year to complete. Recently, Economist Magazine ranked the business school #1 in the world for the Most Relevant Executive MBA.

While in the program, you'll participate in a company project, thereby contributing to your organization. As a result, University of Tennessee PEMBA students bring exceptional value to their organizations.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations. And they've become entrepreneurs and business owners.

By joining the University of Tennessee physician executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills needed to advance your career. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office by calling (865) 974-6526 or go to vitalpe.net/physicianmba.

Medical Aesthetics

There is a broad range of services that a physician medspa owner can provide. But generally, a MedSpa is any business that offers medical-grade aesthetic services. That includes procedures such as PDO threading, radiofrequency skin tightening and micro-needling.

Lisa explains that when she first began practicing medical aesthetics, she admittedly suspected that she was dealing in the business of vanity, serving people on a quest to look marginally more attractive. But she quickly realized that she had oversimplified the situation.

She has since found that the people who seek medical aesthetic services are doing so in an act of self-care, to feel better about themselves, to be more confident and improve their self-image.

The post What Makes a Physician MedSpa Owner So Happy? – 131 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Today I had the opportunity to talk with medspa owner Dr. Lisa Jenks. She is an emergency medicine physician who tested her interest and ability to provide aesthetic services, then founded her own MedSpa 11 years ago.

Lisa graduated from the University of Cincinnati’s College of Medicine in 1986. After residency training at Ohio State University, she began a career in emergency medicine. For reasons we discuss during today’s interview, in 2007, Dr. Jenks opened Genesis MedSpa in Colorado Springs.

Since it’s opening, Genesis has grown tremendously, moving from a 4-treatment room facility into a 10-room facility in 2012 and then adding an additional three treatment rooms in 2016. Under her direction, Genesis has won the BBB’s coveted ‘Excellence in Customer Service’ award three times, and has won numerous ‘Best Of’ awards.

In addition to providing great medspa services for her clients, while pursuing a career that she truly enjoys, Lisa has also served as a mentor for other physicians who want to start their own medspas.

What about you? Do you dread dealing with insurance companies? Want to maintain a medical practice, but offer other services?

Lisa Jenks knows how you feel. She loves owning her own business and still having the opportunity to interact with patients and make an impact.

Med Spa Definition and Services Offered

Years ago, aesthetic services were provided only in a non-medical spa setting. But over the past 10 to 20 years, as invasive medical services were added, they moved to a medical setting that incorporates spa-like design and creature comforts. And the medical spa, or medspa, was born. Clients pay cash for medical-grade procedures that required the oversight of a physician.

The range of procedures offered now is huge and includes: 

• microdermabrasion,
• chemical peels,
• Botox fillers,
• non-invasive or minimally invasive skin tightening,
• ultrasound-assisted liposuction,
• vaginal rejuvenation,
• hair restoration, and
• laser treatments.

Opportunity to Own a Business 

Lisa was an emergency room doctor turned stay-at-home mom. When she re-entered the work world, she discovered enjoyment with aesthetic medicine after becoming a medical director at a local spa.

That experience gave Lisa an opportunity to own her own business outside the confines of regular medicine. She combined her medical practice with aesthetic medicine services to form a medical spa, called Genesis MedSpa, about 11 years ago.

She quickly learned how scary and stressful it was to operate a medspa. Building a clientele and participating in ongoing training are required to be successful.

When Genesis opened, only a few services were offered, such as microdermabrasion, chemical peels, and Botox/fillers. It now offers a wide variety of services, including all three FDA-approved neurotoxins and fillers: Botox, Dysport, and Xeomin.

Also, Lisa owns three lasers and does CO2 skin resurfacing, tattoo removal, facials, chemical peels, ultrasound-assisted liposuction, fat transfer, skin tightening, PRP injections, and vaginal rejuvenation.

Our Sponsor

This podcast is made possible by the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program offered by the Haslam College of Business. You’ll remember that I interviewed Dr. Kate Atchley, the Executive Director of the program, in Episode #25 of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country, with over 650 graduates. Unlike most other ranked programs, which typically have a duration of 18 to 24 months, this program only takes a year to complete. And, it’s offered by the business school that was recently ranked #1 in the world for the Most Relevant Executive MBA program, by Economist magazine.

University of Tennessee PEMBA students bring exceptional value to their organizations by contributing at the highest level while earning their degree. The curriculum includes a number of major assignments and a company project, both of which are structured to immediately apply to each student’s organization.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations and have become entrepreneurs and business owners. If you want to acquire the business and management skills needed to advance your nonclinical career, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office by calling (865) 974-6526 or going to vitalpe.net/physicianmba.

Benefits of Owning a MedSpa

Genesis grew over time and now offers many services to its clients. Also, there are several benefits to owning your own med spa business. Lisa’s favorites include:

• Don't have to deal with any insurance.
• You’re your own boss.
• People are happy about what you do for them.

Click here to download the TRANSCRIPT of today's interview

A Day in the Life: Med Spa Owner

Lisa works Monday through Friday and enjoys her work because she gets to do all sorts of things. She may have 15 minutes of back-to-back Botox and filler appointments. Then, she can spend hours in consultation appointments that focus on services offered. In between all that, she makes marketing, financial, and business decisions, and addresses human resources issues and upcoming specials.

Each day, Lisa typically spends 1-2 hours on administrative tasks and sees patients from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. She also has periodic meetings with her lead and financial advisor. Lisa likes how all kinds of tasks are interwoven into her day, week, and year.

How Big of an Investment Is Needed?

Lisa has not only started her own med spa, but has helped other physicians as mentor and coach. Opening a medspa is an expensive venture. The average cost to start one is $500,000. Lisa shares ideas with physicians about how they can do it for less, closer to $250,000.

For example, she recommends not starting immediately with a laser, which is very expensive. Start with micro-needling, a cost-effective anti-aging treatment. Doctors will probably need a laser at some point, but don’t incur that cost immediately.

Most physicians must take out a loan for at least part of the startup costs. Fortunately, small business loans have become less cumbersome.

“I love owning my own business. But I still love the opportunity to interact with patients and feel as though I'm doing something significant in their lives.”

Lisa Jenks

Steps to Take

If a physician is thinking about transitioning their private practice into a med spa, here are a few tips:

• Find a mentor like Lisa (lisa@genesis-medspa.com)
• Find a small day spa to perform procedures on patients to determine your level of interest
• Build a customer base
• Don’t buy a laser immediately

Statistically, small businesses such as a med spa do not make money until somewhere between three and five years. However, the medical spa business is still a rapidly expanding field. The medical aesthetics industry is expected to grow double-digits for at least the next five years. Tremendous opportunity exists to establish yourself with a new med spa, especially if it is run well.

Links for today's episode:

Learn more about Lisa and her MedSpa here:

• Dr. Lisa Jenks Website
• Dr.Lisa Jenks Email
• Dr. Lisa Jenks on LinkedIn
• American Medical Spa Association (AMSPA)
• Paletteresources.com

Thanks to our sponsor…

Thanks to the UT Physician Executive MBA program for sponsoring the show. It’s an outstanding, highly rated, MBA program designed for working physicians. It might be just what you need to prepare for that joyful, well-paying career. You can find out more at vitalpe.net/physicianmba.

Thanks again for listening. I hope to see you next time on Physician NonClinical Careers.

As always, I welcome your comments and feedback.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton.

Disclaimers:

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life or business. 

Many of the links that I refer you to, and that you’ll find in the show notes, are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you, that I have personally used or am very familiar with.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. It should not be construed as medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counsellor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

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The post How to Find Peace and Balance as a MedSpa Owner with Dr. Lisa Jenks – 065 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.