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In today's episode, Dr. Lara Hochman returns to the podcast to share her insights on finding joy when seeking a new practice.

Through Dr. Hochman's company, Happy Day Health, she matches physicians with private practices that prioritize their well-being and financial stability.

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By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career you love. To learn more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

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Your Guide to a Stress-Free Medical Career

Dr. Lara Hochman introduces the Stress-Free Physician Career Guide, a free email course designed to help physicians navigate the job market with confidence. This resource covers essential topics such as vetting potential practices based on personal values, choosing the right employer, and negotiating salaries. By providing this guide, Lara aims to equip physicians with the knowledge they need to make informed career decisions and find positions that align with their aspirations and values.

Avoiding Common Pitfalls in Job Selection

One of the most common mistakes physicians make when choosing an employer is focusing solely on salary. Dr. Lara Hochman warns against this approach, advising physicians to consider factors like work-life balance, practice culture, and support systems. She emphasizes the importance of thoroughly vetting potential practices by speaking with current physicians and staff. By understanding what truly matters to them and asking the right questions, physicians can avoid pitfalls and find fulfilling positions that offer more than just a paycheck.

Dr. Lara Hochman's Advice on The Importance of Knowing What You Want

Knowing what you're looking for first, and then just going out and finding that… It's very cool to see when I work with physicians who know exactly what they want, and I find them that and they land the job and they're happy.

Summary

By thoroughly vetting practices and asking the right questions, physicians can find fulfilling positions that enhance their work-life balance and overall happiness. For more resources and information, visit Happy Day Health and connect with Dr. Hochman on LinkedIn or Instagram.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Dr. Lara Hochman's Website at Happy Day Health
• Dr. Lara Hochman's LinkedIn Page
• The Stress-Free Physicians Career Guide

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 363

Avoid These Mistakes When Seeking a New Practice

- Interview with Dr. Lara Hochman

John: As I've mentioned in previous episodes of the show, I'm becoming more and more convinced that we as physicians can find happiness in medical practice. I focus a lot on nonclinical careers, but I'm seeing more and more about practices that are really fun to be a part of. My guest today was here a couple of years ago, and she was talking about those situations because she matches physicians with practices. And so, I thought I'd have her come back to kind of complete that conversation. With that, I want to just say that I'm happy to have Dr. Lara Hochman here on the podcast again. Hi, Lara.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Hi, thank you so much for having me back. I'm so excited.

John: Well, good. You've been continuing to do what you were doing back then, in terms of connecting physicians with practices. I've talked to a lot of people, but I don't actually do the connecting and I never have a chance to really follow up with people necessarily if they've been on the podcast. I'm really looking for some of your advice and wisdom on this. But tell us a little bit about where things have gone, let's say in the last year and a half or two years since we spoke in terms of Happy Day Health and what you're doing, and remind our listeners as to what exactly we're talking about.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Sure. As the medical matchmaker, I created Happy Day Health as a company that really helps to match physicians with physician owned private practices. And these are practices that I have vetted, that I believe treat their physicians well, that are financially viable, and that are great places to work.

And I do this because I think it's important for us before deciding to make that leap into nonclinical medicine or to make that leap into all the dire things that we as physicians, look at what the other options are out there because there's some awesome places to work. And that's by having more physicians in private practice, this is how we really regain our voice as a physician community.

John: I agree a hundred percent. And so, I think it's going to be very useful for us to learn from you what we should really be looking at to optimize that situation. I have my ideas, but I'm not even going to get into that. And one of the things I noticed when I was looking at your website again, and reviewing some of your videos and that is that you created a new resource that I hadn't seen before called the Stress-Free Physician Career Guide. So why don't you tell us about that? Because I think our listeners, many will be interested in accessing that.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah, this is an email course, it's completely free. And it runs through a little bit about vetting those practices for yourself. If you're looking for a job and trying to figure out what does that job even look like? Or how do you vet a practice according to your values? Because what's an ideal practice for me is not going to be the ideal practice for you. So using what you know about your values and what your dream job looks like, how do you use that to vet the practice and see if it's correct for you? And then how do you select your ideal employer? How do you negotiate your salary? So, it's just a very nice, easy, free resource for physicians to help answer a lot of the questions that I get repeatedly. And that are so important to know how to do.

John: Yeah, I talked to a lot of coaches by virtue of doing the podcast. And for many of them, the first step is always about identifying what your passion is, or what your goals are, or what your principles are, or vision, those kinds of things, you're starting a new business. And so it sounds like you start there, and then you just go even beyond that is to dig into exactly what you might be looking for.

One of the things that I used to advise people that were looking for a job in the hospital setting was the same thing was, make a list of everything you do, let's say in a day or a week, and separate them by what you love doing and what you hate doing, and then try and find a career that will optimize what you love and get rid of all of what you hate. So where do we find the career guide? I don't want to forget about sending people to the right place.

Dr. Lara Hochman: If you head to my website, which is www.happydayhealth.co, there's a tab at the top, the stress-free physician career guide, go ahead, and it'll be right there.

John: Just start filling it out and using it. Okay, cool. One of the ways I like to look at some things sometimes when people are thinking about their career, and it's kind of like clickbait when you look at the internet, but it's like mistakes to avoid. That's why I'm going to ask you questions about mistakes that we can avoid. So, let's start with, I'm assuming that you're dealing mostly with physicians who are coming from practice, maybe they're coming fresh out of residency or fellowship, but they're probably going to start as an employee. They may not end up that way, and I guess I'll ask you about that in a minute, but what's the biggest mistake when choosing an employer? Should we just go with the one that pays us the most? Or how do we find out for sure that we're going to like being at, working with some group, assuming mostly it's going to be a physician group?

Dr. Lara Hochman: That's funny, that would probably be the biggest mistake that I see is just going with the one that pays the most. And I totally get it. Yeah, it's not even desperate. It's the loans and I want to get paid my worth and I want to feel well compensated. And those are all very valid. But in doing that, there's a lot of other things that get overlooked a lot.

Maybe besides compensation, and I was speaking with a financial advisor once who said the best paying job is probably your red flag. That's the red flag is if it pays really well. You can think of it that way. But, yeah, it's definitely interesting how pay structure works. And especially in the insurance model and how insurance companies pay hospitals versus FQHCs versus private practice. That's all important to take into account.

But I would say the other biggest mistake, oh, gosh, it's so hard to narrow it down to one. One of the ones is interviewing too many places, which sounds silly, almost, but what I tend to see is that then you go into analysis paralysis, so you don't know what you're looking for beforehand. Then you're interviewing at multiple practices, you get multiple offers, they're all a little bit different from each other. What ends up happening is you just shut down. When you have too many tabs open in your brain, and these are big tabs. This is a big life decision. And then it often people just end up picking the highest paying one.

So, knowing what you're looking for first, and then just going out and finding that. It's very cool to see when I work with physicians who know exactly what they want, and I find them that and they land the job and they're happy, like, easy peasy versus the ones and typically those are the younger new grads or anything don't really know what they want yet. And they just look everywhere. And then sometimes they'll lose opportunities because they take too long. And that may have been this incredible opportunity that they've lost. So, that would be a big one. And one that I think would be pretty unexpected.

Another one is not vetting the practice appropriately. You hear a lot of times, even in physician owned practices of a bait and switch they promised me this, but then I got that. And it's actually pretty easy to avoid that situation just by speaking with physicians that are already in the practice saying, well, an example is a physician I recently placed in this pretty cool practice. She came from a bait and switch situation where she was a high producer. She wanted to see a lot of patients. She was promised a lot of patients and she was paid purely on production, which is great potentially, but turns out they couldn't even fill her schedule more than five patients a day. That's something that could have been avoided. So, not vetting the practice appropriately is really important. So you don't get into the bait and switch situation.

John: Yeah. I was chatting with a physician recently that I know very well and he's fresh out of residency a year or so ago. And he had that exact situation. It looked like a good practice. It was actually physician run and owned have been around a long time, but his volume was nowhere near what they said it would be. They practically guaranteed it, although not in the contract of course. And he wasn't making anywhere near because the productivity kicked in at the end of the first year and he was still in the process of building his practice. So that was rough for sure. And he's gone somewhere else now, which is very disruptive.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah. It's so important to know what you're getting yourself into. And on the flip side, the practices that are hiring, it's expensive to hire doctors and you don't want to tell them the wrong thing and then have them arrive and realize it's something different and leave. Because then you've lost many tens of thousands of hundreds of thousands of dollars by hiring someone unnecessarily. So, practices need to be honest as well. It's really a two way street.

John: And I think we talked about this last time that maybe physicians don't have deep pockets. If they're a small group, three, five, 10, whatever, even a group of 20, they don't have the resources of a large hospital system. So focusing on the pay is probably, the cultures of those two situations are completely different. Again, it gets back to what you said before about focusing on the, just the pay.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah. There's so much more to that. And especially with how much we want a good quality of life as we should, those are really important things to look at. What's your work-life balance going to be like, what what's the culture of the practice going to be like, will you have a voice? Will you have autonomy? Will admin listen to you? Do you have support? There's so many things that are going to be important to avoid burnout. That's really should not be overlooked. It's really important.

John: What about to switch gears a little bit, just in terms of negotiating everyone, maybe you find the ideal practice, looks like it would be ideal, but you do have to go through that process. So maybe mistakes you might see related to negotiating the contract once it gets to that point.

Dr. Lara Hochman: The big things are around transparency. I don't really see negotiating as I'm going to say what I want and you say what you want and it's buttheads until someone has to give in. Negotiating really is coming to an agreement on what works on both sides. And really working towards that together, I think is so important.

If you're just closed mind and you're like, I want X, Y, Z, and this is it, or else you're probably not going to get anywhere. You're not going to get what you want and versus using the example of tail malpractice insurance, I went tail, the practice doesn't want to provide tail. Well, maybe you can meet in the middle and see how it'll work for both. Obviously, tail is going to be less expensive for something like pediatrics than it would for OB-GYN or neurosurgery. But if I stay three years, perhaps you can pay 50%. If I stay, stay five years, you'll pay 100%, whatever it is, but trying to find something that works for both ends. Because if you're going to ask a new an OBGYN practice to pay your $100,000 tail, if you leave off to one year, that's probably not fair. Seeing it from both sides really is important, when it comes to negotiating for sure.

John: When I was CMO of a hospital, I used to do a lot of contract negotiations. And when I came away with, once I left was yeah, a small practice is not going to be able to put all that money out after one year of work and you just leave. But if you're working for a large hospital system, I put my foot down and say, look, this is the cost of doing business in that situation. But when it comes to, you got to give your physician partners a little bit of a break. If you're talking about tail for a very high cost specialty, that makes perfect sense. Anything else in the contracts that you've found maybe have been stumbling blocks that maybe unnecessarily prevented someone from accepting a relatively good or very good position?

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah, actually recently I had a physician, wonderful physician with an incredible practice who she had her dollar amount that she wanted to earn and just wasn't realistic. She didn't want to see a whole bunch of patients. So, unfortunately the math didn't work. But she was coming from a big hospital system that could blow money and was burnt out seeing 20 patients a day coming to a small private practice who had scribes admin support. When you're done, you're done. Awesome culture. This practice is just exemplary, really, really good practice, good morals, good ethics. But they see far more patients a day than this physician was used to.

And what it ended up coming down to was the practice said, we love this physician. We would love to have her join our team. However, she'd be seeing half the amount of patients we are and getting paid more. And we can't justify it. We can't that she's not even bringing in the revenue to be able to justify her salary.

I think knowing what it is that you're asking is so important. And that comes back down to the win-win situation that we were talking about earlier, but understanding what it is you're asking for before asking for it, and then truly actually listening to what the practice is saying back, because you may lose the job opportunity of your lifetime. And you may have been willing to take that lower salary, but because you didn't quite play ball, so to speak not take part in that two-way conversation, you may lose something that could be really cool.

John: Yeah, because every practice is totally different. And if one is very efficient, it has a lot of support like you said, they had scribes. That gets rid of a lot of work. Oh boy, that's probably based on just, again, she was fixated on one thing, and that was the most important, and she wasn't going to listen to any kind of alternatives.

Well, again, that gets back to the vetting. When I think about vetting like hospital systems, there's a lot of data out there publicly, probably not so much for physicians, but give us a few examples. Who should they talk to if they're trying to vet a practice? I can imagine there's be dozens of different approaches to trying to get information, including maybe talking to some of the patients, but what do most of your clients do to try and learn as much as they can about an opportunity?

Dr. Lara Hochman: The first step is in the interview. Really, there are almost no wrong questions. There's wrong ways to ask certain questions. But if there's something that you're afraid to ask, it probably means it's one of the most important things to ask. So, I'll have doctors who say this is really important to me, but I'm afraid to ask it. I really want to be a partner, but I don't want to scare them away, but if that's something that's really important to you, you definitely want to ask. It goes back to knowing your values and knowing what's important to you, and that's where that starts. Ask the hard questions. Definitely not just ask them, but ask them in a nice way. How would you want to be asked certain questions? Speak with other physicians that are already in the practice. If you're interviewing with a practice that only has one physician or one clinician, speak to the office manager. Speak to the medical assistants. Look at the turnover rate.

So, if the practice is turning over their office managers or billing people, that's potentially a red flag. So, look at that. If there's no one to speak to, well, that's not really very good. And then you want to ask those people about things that are important to you. You can ask around in the community. What I like to do when I'm interviewing for jobs or I actually went to a practice as a patient who now ended up being a repeat client of mine, but when I was in the waiting room, I was speaking with the receptionist and asking her what's it like working for this practice? She didn't know who I was. She didn't even know that I was evaluating if I wanted to work with them as help them find a doctor. But speaking with as many people as you can is one of the most important things. And if there are more than one physician in the practice, those are the people you want to speak to.

John: Okay. This is a question I think that my listeners will have. So, you've connected these physicians with practices. It's mostly physician run practices. Do the majority of those, are they looking for eventual partnership? Are some of them looking just to remain an employee, if it suits them? What's your experience been with that sort of goal?

Dr. Lara Hochman: It's about 50-50, I would say. The practices that are looking for partners, part of how I vet it is are they actually looking for a partner or are they just saying you're a partner so that they'll draw you in? Yeah, the practices that I work with that are looking for a partner are looking for a true partner. They want someone to bounce business ideas off of. They want someone to help them grow their practice. They want someone to be a part of the business, and typically they will start teaching you that before you become partners so that at the time of partnership, you can hit the ground running.

John: Okay. Another question that might come up, I'm thinking for my listeners. We've heard a lot about physicians going into practice that they love. And one of the options that some of the solo people have done that I've talked to have gone into a DPC. And I think I saw that one of your listings had specifically mentioned that. So, where does that fall in this? Are many of your practices that you're working with, are they DPCs? Are more going that way? What's your feedback on that whole situation?

Dr. Lara Hochman: There's definitely more DPCs opening up for sure. There's no question about that. As more people learn about it, it's such an attractive option. Some of my practices are direct primary care, direct specialty care or concierge. I wouldn't say the majority yet. I imagine that will change as more and more practices open, but it's an incredible option. It's really great.

John: Okay. All right. I'm trying to think of other questions that I've been asked personally, or that I have. Those are the top things that I was interested in learning about. And I mean, it sounds very hopeful to me. I think I'm going to have to get some more guests running DPCs and things like that. Tell us your website again, where can we find you and where can we look for the Stress-Free Physician Career Guide?

Dr. Lara Hochman: My website is www.happytohealth.co. Please check it out. That's where I have all of my jobs posted that I'm currently helping. You can sign up if there's something you don't see that you want, you can sign up and I'll let you know when something does come up for that. The Stress-Free Physician Career Guide is on there. There's a link to a course that I ran on opening your own practice. Anything is on there. I'm on social media, LinkedIn, Laura Hockman MD is where I'm the most active. I am on Instagram, Happy Day MD, I think. I don't even know.

John: I forget where my social media is. But yes, definitely. I saw the YouTube videos. So they're definitely going to be found there. You've been on another podcast, I'm sure, where you address this issue. So we can look for you there. All right. I guess I'm going to let you go in a minute here. But I'm just thinking, okay, if you're currently an employed physician, you're in a practice or working for a large corporation, you're probably doing the usual insurance company driven healthcare and you're getting miserable, any other advice you have just in general for how these people should think about the rest of their careers while they're feeling miserable?

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah, we got one life, we have to enjoy it. There'll be no job that's going to be good 100% of the time. But if you're miserable, why wait? What are you waiting for? If you're so unhappy, there's going to be something better, whether it's nonclinical, and that's where your podcast really can come in handy, or something clinical is out there that you enjoy, I would say, open up your mind. There's a lot of where we feel like we need to be practicing one way or we need to do it one way or another.

What have you got to lose? Take a job that sees less patients, take a job that if you want to stay clinical, think about what it is you actually don't like about your job. And most of what I hear is not clinical part, it's the admin part. So there's jobs available out there where you can still see patients and still do good in the world, and not have to deal with all the admin stuff. So you got this, it's just a matter of finding what you want, but knowing what you want first, so that you can go out and find it.

John: Yeah, so many physicians obviously want to be taking care of patients. And like you said earlier, there may be that practice not that far away that just has scribes, and you don't have to deal with the EMR as much as you do now, or whatever that issue might be. I think things are starting to turn for the better. I really appreciate you doing what you do and sharing these updates with us from time to time so that we keep the faith. Thanks again for being here today, Lara.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

John: You're welcome. I'll hopefully talk to you again next year or two.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Great.

John: Bye-bye.

Dr. Lara Hochman: Bye.

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The post Avoid These Mistakes When Seeking a New Practice appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Addressing the Technical Issues – Episode 329

In today's episode, John applies his expertise in hosting Zoom interviews and webinars to delivering an amazing remote video job interview.

In today's digital era, acing a remote job interview goes beyond showcasing your skills. It requires mastering the technical intricacies that can make or break your impression. Elevate your virtual interview game with this guide to the technical aspects.

Our Show Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Did you know that you can sponsor the Physician Nonclinical Careers Podcast? As a sponsor, you will reach thousands of physicians with each episode to sell your products and services or to build your following. For a modest fee, your message will be heard on the podcast and will continue to reach new listeners for years after it is released.  The message will also appear on the website with over 8,000 monthly visits and in our email newsletter and social media posts. To learn more, contact us at john.jurica.md@gmail.com and include SPONSOR in the Subject Line.

Technical Mastery for Seamless Interviews

Embark on a journey to elevate your virtual presence. John's checklist covers the essentials — from pre-interview computer fine-tuning to tackling sound challenges and optimizing your visual setup. Learn the nuances that can make a significant difference in how you come across in a remote video job interview.

Discover the common pitfalls that can derail a virtual interview and how to sidestep them. From camera angles to background distractions, John shares practical tips. Uncover strategies to ensure a flawless virtual interview, setting yourself apart in the competitive job market.

Pro Tips for Amazing Remote Video Job Interview

Combining foundational principles with advanced strategies, today's presentation along with Episode 223 and Episode 320 provide a comprehensive guide to interview success. Whether you're preparing for your first job interview or your tenth, John's insights cover it all. With a focus on preparation, thoughtful engagement, building personal connections, and optimizing the technical aspects of the interview, you'll ace your interviews and leave a powerful impression on potential employers.  

Summary

With a focus on the technical aspects, John takes listeners through a checklist designed to enhance their virtual presence. From troubleshooting common pitfalls to creating a professional setup, readers will learn actionable steps to optimize a remote video job interview.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

• 3 Top Tips to Ace Your Interview and Blow Away the Competition – 320
• 8 Great Tips to Help You Prepare for Your First Job Interview – 223
• Five Tactics for a Powerful Interview
• NewScr!pt

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 329

The Keys to an Amazing Remote Video Job Interview

John: I've talked before, I think there's one or two episodes that I will link to that address the issue of preparing for and delivering a really good interview. And most of those concepts cover both a live and in-person interview versus let's say a video interview over the internet. And they kind of cover both and involve things like how to prepare, how to act, what to ask, and other important issues that can affect the impact of that interview.

But there's another part that can make the interview go sideways, and that's the part where the technical aspects are not right on that initial video interview. And nowadays, sometimes all the interviews are going to be over video. Since the pandemic, a lot of people are doing individual and group interviews online. And particularly if you're looking for a remote job, you may never meet face-to-face. So, it occurred to me that a Zoom call or a remote call of any type using any platform can go sideways and adversely affect your chances of getting hired because of maybe really bad lighting or terrible sound quality or other technical issues.

I actually created a checklist that you can go through that I'm going to run through today. And as I hit certain things that I want to digress on, I'll do that when I talk about things particular to improving the lighting, the sound, or things like that. I think if you follow this checklist, it'll help a lot in optimizing that part, that aspect of your remote video interview. As a precursor to that, these are some of the things that I've experienced in the past that are really annoying and make it difficult for me to focus on the actual interview itself. See if you've ever experienced some of these.

You can't see the person's face. They're like off camera or they're partially on camera, or you can't see the facial expressions because the lighting is so poor, or the positioning is bad, or the quality of the video is terrible. Maybe it seems like the speaker is looking at your chin or up at the ceiling while you're discussing because they're obviously looking at their screen rather than anywhere in the vicinity of your camera.

Sometimes there could be a disgusting mess in the background. It's kind of hard to focus on what someone's saying if I'm not going to make examples, but I've seen some pretty bizarre backgrounds, that's for sure. And sometimes when the sound quality is just so bad, it's just annoying if there's a lot of echoes or you can't hear the person or they continually talk over you.

Those are some of the issues I'm going to point out today. We're going to touch on as I go through this checklist. And who better to advise you on this topic than a podcaster who's done hundreds of interviews and presented dozens of online webinars? It took me a while at the beginning to get this down, but I've got it down now pretty well.

All right, let's get to our checklist that will enable us to deliver an amazing remote video job interview. We're going to start at the very beginning. I'm not going to talk about clothing or prep or research or anything like that. I'm going to assume that you're doing the interview on a desktop or a fairly decent laptop and not on your phone. I would not recommend you do it on your phone unless it's like a last resort. Just forget about using the phone, at least use a laptop or a desktop.

All right. We're going to walk through the checklist. Here we go. Number one, you're at your computer. Number one, close all of your apps or software. This is in preparation of shutting down your computer because we're going to make sure that we've cleared everything out of the temporary cash and other things that might interfere with the connection you're about to make. So you close everything down. Before you reboot it, you're going to run your favorite antivirus or software cleaner. I have a Mac, so I'm going to use CleanMyMac. There's something called CleanMyPC, but there's literally dozens, if not hundreds of different ways that you can improve the performance of your computer, clean out all unnecessary files and look for any viruses or malware floating around before you get on a call. You're going to do that.

Once that is done, a couple other things that sometimes we forget. If you have wireless devices attached to and running your computer, then I would say somewhere here in the first few steps, be sure to charge those things. I need to keep my wireless mouse, my wireless keyboard charged. And if you're using AirPods or the PC version of that, the non-Apple version of that, then those better be charged as well because any of those things can go dead in the middle of an interview. You're going to do that either before the checklist or right now and step away from your computer for a while. Or if you can plug them in while you're using them, that's fine too. And after you've done all of that, reboot your computer. That's actually step four on my list.

Now let's talk about some of the things. You've rebooted your computer and now you're going to be not setting this up yourself. In other words, you're not sending the Zoom link out, somebody else is sending it to you. And I'm using Zoom just because that's what I use most often, although I obviously at times I'm on different webinars or group calls using whatever software the company might have. But if I say Zoom during this presentation, understand it could be any type of networking software.

Anyway, let's talk first about the camera and the video. Some simple things. Number one, before I get on an important call, clean the lens of your camera. I had somebody was coaching me about TikTok videos, and she said before you do a video, clean the camera. Now that's because a phone lens can get messed up a lot easier, let's say, than a computer, which is in a sheltered environment as opposed to being in your purse or your back pocket. But it makes sense. We don't realize what the others are seeing. Sometimes we'll notice once we're on the call, if we see our image, but it doesn't hurt, just wipe that lens off. Most of them have covers over them, glass covers. So you're really not cleaning the lens, but you just clean off your camera.

And by the way, pretty much any camera will work. I like a little better quality. I happen to use a Logitech. They have all different sizes and quality of those, but it's a little better than the built-in cameras in some computers. Some are really awesome. And so, whatever, most of the time that's not a big deal, although it can confuse you because when you use the Logitech camera, it usually has a built-in microphone as well. Then what happens is now you get into contests on your computer as to which mic is being used. Is it the lavalier, is it the built-in, is it the Logitech? Is it some other microphone that you don't even know about? So just keep that in mind. I use the Logitech camera because I like it a little better than my Mac camera, although the Mac is actually quite good as well. But I never used the microphone on the Logitech camera.

Now, I haven't done it yet, but I'm in the process. I think I'm going to get what's called a Center Cam. It's a particular type of camera that actually hangs from the top of your computer into the center of your screen. And so, it eliminates the problem I talked about earlier about always looking off camera. That means you'll be looking at someone's face on your computer as I'm doing right now, and you'll be still looking directly into the camera. In fact, if you look up the top of your computer, you'll be looking off camera again.

You don't have to obviously buy a Center Cam or one of its competitors just for a single interview. But if you do a lot on the computer, if you're doing webinars or doing a lot of meetings and you kind of get tired of this hassle of looking up at the camera or to the side at the camera or what have you, you can get a Center Cam. They're not that expensive. I think I'm going to get that for Christmas. It's one of my requests for this year. Okay, that's all I wanted to say about cameras. They're usually pretty foolproof most of the time unless you've closed your lens cap or something.

Now let's talk about sound. Again, this can be very irritating. If I can't hear you, if you're muffled, if, if you're coming in and out. So, let's talk about mics. Most built in microphones are the worst thing you can use. It's the worst mic you have a choice of. Almost anything else will be better than the built-in mic. You can use a lavalier that you clip on near your face. You can use a headset that has a mic and the sound coming through it. You can use the mic that comes with your phone. Those usually insert into a computer, but they are excellent mics. You can use your AirPods or equivalent. They actually are decent for both sound and for the mic that's built in although there's a little bit of echo there because the microphone's really not directly in front of your mouth. And it depends on what you want to do with the sound or what do you like best.

I actually like the listen to the sound and I use this all the time on my interviews from the computer itself. The sound is fine. And the only problem is you can get into echoes if you don't have a good microphone in that situation. So, there are many microphones that you can buy for under a hundred dollars that are really excellent quality, that are directional, so that even if the sound is coming out of the speakers directly from your computer into the ambient room, ambient air in the room, it won't cause an echo because the microphone is so focused forward towards the speaker. The lavaliers work great. Any dedicated microphone works great.

I don't know, it's a little weird to me to do an interview with a headset on. I've obviously talked to many people that have done that. I just think it's not as natural. If you're doing a job interview, that wouldn't be my first choice, but it's still better than using the built-in mic on your computer.

The other thing I would say is we're going to talk a little bit about the room, preparing the room, but it's kind of related to the microphone in the sense that if you're in a room that has carpeting and wall hangings and so forth, it prevents a lot of the echoing that can happen when you're in a room that has a lot of bare walls or bare floor.

The other thing on the checklist here, number six, was address your sound settings and technology. Number seven is prepare the room. On a Zoom call or a similar call, I don't like using a virtual background or filter or some fake background. That's my personal preference. You can use them. I've interviewed many people with an artificial background. Some look pretty awesome. If it ties into who you are and what you're doing, it can make a lot of sense. Or if you don't have a choice you're going to be doing your interview in a just a messy disaster, then you're probably better off using a virtual background, but know how to do that. And with some types of online internet webinars and video conferencing, you're not going to have a choice because they are the ones who are setting the invitation. So you may not be able to use your usual virtual background.

If you have one in Zoom, I believe it automatically kicks in if those are your settings when someone else sends you a Zoom invitation. But if you're on one of the other platforms, then it's not going to work unless you've configured yourself for something that's recurring on their platform. You don't want any ambient noise, of course. You want to get rid of all the clutter and distractions. Nice clean background. Could be a bookshelf, could be some pictures on the wall or something like that, but nothing too ornate. And close your doors. It's distracting if your pet walks in or if there's a lot of noise outside.

And I do want to say too, at this point, something about lighting. You don't have to go overboard, but here's something that I have discovered. Overhead lights are terrible. Backlighting is the worst. If you have a big light in back of you, then what's going to happen is your face is going to look dark. And the only way to have fairly even and easily observable features in your face as you're talking that are natural is to have two lights.

Some people like to use the ring lights, but have two lights, one on each side. If you can face ambient, external lighting on not too bright, but fairly... Actually the best is an overcast day with sufficient light by a window. That works pretty well. But if you're at an angle, you're going to have half dark and half light.

So, what I usually try to do is I might have a little bit of lighting in the ceiling that's a little behind me, and then two fairly bright ring lights, one on either side. And then it's very easy, especially we do hear by watching someone's lips, reading lips at the same time. That helps a lot. I guess that's all I have to say about the room and the lighting and the sound.

What else? Let's see. Other tech issues then. That's all before you get on the call. Now you get the information, you click on it, you join the call, you say hello, couple of different things. Be prepared ahead of time that if you have to change your mic, that you know where to do that. For me on a Mac, and if I'm using some other software like Zoom, I can change my mic or I might have to change my mic if I want to really switch in both Zoom and in my system settings on the iMac. So, just be ready to go to that place on your computer to make those changes.

The same is true sometimes if you have more than one camera. Let's say you have a built-in and you're putting on a Logitech or a similar type of camera. Well, now your computer for some reason selected the natural one that came with the computer and now it's actually blocked because the other one's over it. And so, nowhere to go to make that switch quickly, whether it's in Zoom or on your computer software and so forth. So just be prepared. Sometimes you have to do that on the fly.

The other things I wanted to say about this, and hopefully I'm not breaking any of my own rules today, but number one, try to remain at the same distance from your mic. Most mics are sensitive to that. Now, some less than others. When you're listening to a professional podcaster, big name podcasters ones are on YouTube and so forth, usually you'll see that as long as they're within three feet of that mic, you can hear them really well. Part of that is done in the processing of the audio after everything is recorded. But in general, just try to stay about six inches from your mic or so, and that way you don't have to deal with the in and outs of the sound during the interview.

The other thing, of course, is because of the slight delay that most Zoom and other similar calls have, there is a delay that you can start to talk over one another. I always tell my podcast guests err on the side of pausing. It doesn't hurt to stop. And just wait a second to see if someone's trying to jump in and then go back to what you were saying.

Usually in an interview, they're going to ask you a question and you're going to continue to speak until you've fully answered that question. It's not so much a dialogue as let's say just chatting with a friend where we can talk over each other back and forth. It's just always good to pause and then keep going if they're apparently still waiting for you to finish your thought.

One thing I sometimes do, it could cause problems, but depending, let's say you're doing a group interview. You have five or six people, hopefully they're going to take turns and not jump around. But one of the things you can do in that scenario is turn off your mic. You can do it through Zoom. Obviously I have a button on my mic where I can turn my mic off and I do that because there might be background noise, or just from me moving in my chair or something like that. Or if I go to even just take a drink of water or something, I'll usually turn off my mic. But you've got to be careful to remember to turn it back on or you're just going to see your lips moving and not understand what's going on.

Again, I'll remind you to look into the camera and unless you have that Center Cam where you automatically look into the camera by actually looking at the person's face, if you center the image in the middle of your camera, of course, and the camera in the middle of the image.

And then the last thing I would say is do everything else that I advise in those previous episodes, which I'll link to in the show notes about how to appear open, how to be positive all the time, how to smile all the time, use proper body language and so forth.

And of course, having done your research and having questions prepared, you'll have a great interview and the technical stuff that we've talked about today won't interfere with or undermine what otherwise would have been a fantastic interview performance.

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The post The Keys to an Amazing Remote Video Job Interview appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Three “Advanced” Tactics

In today's episode, John updates his tactics to help you ace your interview with 3 more items to consider. This topic was originally presented in PNC podcast episode 223.  

We'll explore three invaluable tips for acing your job interview and standing out from the competition. John, our expert in non-traditional job searches, offers his insights on these crucial interview strategies.

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This week's sponsor is the From Here to There: Leveraging Virtual Medicine Program from Sandrow Consulting.

Are you ready to say goodbye to burnout, take control of your schedule, increase your earnings, and enjoy more quality time with your family? You’re probably wondering how to do that without getting a new certification or learning a whole new set of nonclinical skills.

Here's the answer: The quickest way to achieve more freedom and joy is to leverage virtual medicine.

Dr. Cherisa Sandrow and I discussed this in Podcast Episode 266. Cherisa and her team are now preparing to relaunch their comprehensive program for building and running your own telehealth business.

If you want to learn the tools and skills you need to live life on your own terms – then you should check it out today. After completing the 10-week program, you’ll be ready to take your career to the next level.

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A Recap from Podcast Episode 223

In Podcast Episode 223 from November 2021, interview essentials, whether in a phone, video, or in-person setting, and one-on-one or group interviews, were highlighted. These include basics like dressing appropriately, punctuality, carrying extra resumés, and presenting transferable skills and achievements from previous roles. Maintaining assertiveness without being pushy, proper body language, and steering clear of negative answers to questions, were emphasized.

Ace Your Interview

Applying these three new strategies, you can significantly boost your chances of acing your job interview and leaving a remarkable impression on potential employers:

1. Building Personal Connections with Interviewers: Start by establishing a personal connection with your interviewers during downtime or waiting periods. A simple introduction, a friendly smile, and a genuine interest in common interests like alma maters or hobbies can go a long way in creating a memorable impression.
2. Crafting a Compelling “Tell Me About Yourself” Response: Prepare a well-structured response to the classic question, “Tell me about yourself.” Use a framework that covers your past, present, and future, aligning each aspect with the company and job you're applying for. Thorough rehearsal will help you appear confident and articulate.
3. The Game-Changing Question to Ask: When given the chance to ask questions, inquire, “When you picture the person excelling in this role six to twelve months from now, what does that look like to you?” This question reveals the employer's expectations and showcases your commitment to exceptional performance.

Remember that preparation and thoughtful engagement are key to your success.

Summary

John presents wise approaches to shine during your job interview. With his extensive experience and deep understanding of the topic, John equips you with a comprehensive toolkit for interview success. You'll gain the confidence and knowledge needed to ace your interview, blow away the competition, and leave a powerful and lasting impression on your potential employer.

And for those of you looking to take back complete control of your career, and quickly build your own freelance business, the quickest thing to do is create a telehealth practice. Learn how to do that in Dr. Cherisa Sandrow's 10-week comprehensive course by clicking right here.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

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Links for Today's Episode:

• Episode 223: 8 Great Tips to Help You Prepare for Your First Job Interview 
• From Here to There: Leveraging Virtual Medicine
• NewScr!pt

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Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 320

3 Top Tips to Ace Your Interview and Blow Away the Competition

John: Okay, let's get into the three top tips for acing your interview. This is definitely a critical part of our non-traditional job search. You've narrowed your job search to a single job at this point. There may be others, but you're going to start with this one. And you've convinced somebody that you're qualified, at least to the point where they want to interview you. And so, then you've got that interview scheduled.

Now remember, interviews can be phone interviews, tele-video interviews, or face-to-face, and they can be one-on-one or they can be group interviews. And we can cover a lot of topics related to this. But just keep that in mind and review that previous episode that I talked about. I'll put a link to that in the show notes.

But I don't want to go back over the basics of doing an interview. As we discussed before, you need to address properly, arrive early, bring copies of your resume, prepare a list of selling points. Don't show them to them, but at least prepare them and rehearse them and study them. Those selling points should talk about the transferable skills and measurable outcomes you've achieved in previous jobs that you can then apply to the current job that you're applying for.

You should be assertive but not pushy. Use the proper body language and never go negative on any topic, especially on the topic of why you're leaving your current position. And like I said, these have all been covered in episode number 223, but there's three more tips I want to talk about today that I don't think I got into great detail on before and they could be very critical to putting you over the top.

They're simple tips, but they may not come naturally to everybody, and they're often forgotten in the midst of a potentially stressful interview situation. So, let me get right to it.

Here is the first tip. When possible get to know your interviewers personally before getting into the formal interview questioning if you can. I don't mean try to get to know them before the interview. In those periods of time where there's downtime where you're waiting or they're waiting for other people to show up, not only should you smile and introduce yourself, but you should actually try and connect with that person.

Let's say you're going to do a group interview. The first person is in the room, you're there and you do have a couple of minutes. It reminds me of somebody I once met. I actually still know he is kind of a friend, although we don't see each other very often because he lives in another part of the state. But I remember meeting him at one of the state medical society meetings. I think we had lunch together, and he was the most inquisitive guy I've ever seen or heard.

And in fact, he had no barriers to just asking whatever came to his mind. We'd be sitting there and he'd ask me, "Oh, well, where'd you go to med school? And where's your office? And what kind of practice are you in?"

And then I remember later on during the conversation, we're just walking down the hallway and he says, "Oh, are you married? Oh, you're divorced. Okay, you have kids. Okay, why did you get divorced?" Now that is a question. That's somebody that can ask a question, it took me aback for a minute because I'm thinking, "Whoa, he jumped into something pretty personal right away."

But it was weird because I wasn't really offended because I think it's some question that many of us have when we meet someone who's just recently divorced. And I guess he was thinking about going through a divorce himself, but it actually also made me feel like he cared about my life even though maybe he was just doing it to get his own information and to help strategize what he was up to. But it didn't matter. He was liked that about everything. He would ask all about different things that normally you wouldn't in a routine conversation.

I just bring that up because you'll be surprised that people will not be offended, particularly if you're asking really questions to get to know the other person. And it's a method of persuasion that many authors have written about. And to try to get to know someone, have a conversation, make it about them. So, you can do a little research ahead of time and use LinkedIn and Doximity if you know who you're going to be interviewing. Obviously Doximity will only help you if it's another physician that's interviewing you.

And again, try to get that done during the little breaks in between when you can get a chance to do that. And you can talk about are there common interests? Did you happen to go to the same school or know someone who went to the same school, same university, same medical school, et cetera. Maybe workplaces you may have shared or friends you might know or hobbies. That's one. Hobbies and interests because you might overlap in those areas without necessarily being physically, geographically close to where your interviewer actually lives. And maybe travel. Interesting travel.

There's other things I'm sure you can think of. But that's the first tip. Try and do something and have a conversation that will make you more familiar to the other person. And that will help put you ahead of other people that are being interviewed for that job.

It builds that bond with the interviewer. It raises their awareness of you because the memory of you will be linked through some of those interesting short conversations or other connections that you have.

Okay, let's move on to the second tip. Like a lot of things that I've told you in the past, you need to do some rehearsing and prepare things in advance. And I don't think I've talked about this one specifically, but you need to prepare to answer this question "Tell me about yourself."

Now, most of us probably would say, "Well, I can answer that right now." But no, because you want to prepare this answer in a way that seems natural, but that accomplishes a couple of things. Number one, it follows a framework that you use, that you develop so that you can remember the answer. Because sometimes you just shouldn't wing it, like I said. And you should use a framework and then you should rehearse it many, many times.

Now, there's multiple frameworks you can use. One of the frameworks you can use is to think about this in terms of the past, the present and the future. You can tell a story about your past, present, and future. Those three stories should all link together.

And the other thing is that the story should be relevant to the company and to the job that you're applying for. Of everything in your life that you could talk about, which you could probably easily write a book, you need to link them, maybe use this framework and then make it pertinent to the company.

I put together a little example that might help you think through this for yourself. And by the way, you should write this down, rehearse it over and over and over again. Rehearse it with another person and then rehearse it without having your notes. And when you really feel comfortable and maybe jumping even around in the story, what have you, then you know you're ready to go.

But let me give you an example that I've written down. I've not memorized this story, but let's say that I was working as I was, and this is from my life. It's not exactly accurate because it's playing off a different type of story and a point that I want to make. But let's imagine that I'm working as a medical director at a hospital, and then I'm going to apply to become the CMO of a hospital, or let's say a VPMA, which is what I actually started with before becoming CMO. And it could be at my own hospital or even another hospital, but I think the concepts will be the same.

I'm at my interview talking about what I did, I'm going over some things in my resume. And somebody says, and this is usually going to be pretty early in the process, but it'll set the stage for future conversations, different topics later. And they say, "Well, let's just start by you telling me about yourself, or you telling us about yourself."

Here is something that I might come up with. All right. Well, I obtained a B.S. degree in chemistry and worked for two years as a food scientist at Kraft Foods. And I'd been thinking about going to medical school. I decided to seek the degree, and I ended up getting in and attended the University of Illinois before completing my family medicine residency.

And right after that, I started in practice and became interested in nonclinical jobs such as physician advisor and medical advisor, or medical director. And partly it was because I wanted to moonlight and make some money, but I liked attending the QI committee meetings, the pharmacy and therapeutic committee meetings and other medical staff meetings. And I got interested in some of those things in leadership and management, but also in quality improvement and patient safety. I obtained a master's degree in public health while I was still in practice.

And during those years, I developed a lot of experiences that apply to the job I've applied for here. I was leading QI meetings, CME meetings, and I attended hospital board meetings as one of the medical staff representatives. I experienced a lot of satisfaction helping to improve quality and patient safety, reducing overutilization when I was working as physician advisor for utilization management. And I helped the board to understand the quality and safety measures that were being reported to it.

Later I had an opportunity to take leadership roles as chair of the committee on CME accreditation at the Illinois State Medical Society. I worked as the chair of the local board of health, and I was a board member of a local nonprofit hospice. I learned a lot of these leadership and management concepts.

And thinking about my future and why I was so excited to learn about this position that you're offering, I realized that I'm looking for an opportunity to help an organization like yours, a position where I can use my skills and experiences that I mentioned previously and others, to improve patient care, lead process improvement teams and improve outcome measures and patient satisfaction.

If given the opportunity, I'd love to join your team and lead process improvement efforts, eliminate "never events", reduce publicly reported mortality and complication rates, and basically enhance the organization's standing in the community.

That's my story that I might come up with. And I would rehearse that and rehearse that and rehearse that, maybe buff it up, make it go a little more smoothly and get to the point where I could rattle it off at least the major points without hesitation.

That's the second tip today which is to again, be prepared to answer the question "Tell me about yourself." Write it down, rehearse it and get to where it just becomes second nature.

Now, the third and final tip. Really this tip prompted me to go back and go over this topic today because I was glancing at a really highly renowned medical and leadership resource known as TikTok. It's kind of funny, I don't spend a lot of time on TikTok, but in this instance, I found something on TikTok that really struck me.

I've talked about something sort of like this in the past in terms of trying to anticipate what the CEO or your boss, whoever that's going to be, is expecting. You look through the job description, you really try and figure out what they're looking for and you try and be prepared to answer all the questions about your background and so forth.

But I heard this next tip in its most succinct form I've ever really heard it or thought about it when it was mentioned by somebody on TikTok who's a grant writer, and he puts posts about how to write grants. And his name is Eric Bruckbauer. I don't think he is very famous. I couldn't find a LinkedIn profile for him. But this was his advice that I'm going to share with you. And I think it is actually pretty profound. I wanted to acknowledge that it was him that did it. And I had a hard time finding out who it was because if you go on TikTok, he doesn't even have his name on the TikTok. You can't even find it.

Anyway, let's get to the point. He said this is what you should say on a job interview to practically guarantee you'll get the job. And here it is. When the interviewer asks you if you have any questions, here is what you should say. "When you picture the person in this role doing an excellent job, six to 12 months from now, what does that look like to you?"

And that's perfect. Let me say it again. They're asking you, "Do you have any other questions?" And if you haven't already addressed this one this way, then when they ask you if you have other questions, I say, "When you picture the person in this role doing an excellent job six to 12 months from now, what does that look like to you?"

And you could put it in your own words if you like, but it's so perfect. It's a great question for several reasons. Number one, it tells you what they're really looking for in the job. It sometimes differs from what is written in the job description. You go through this long job descriptions, paragraphs and paragraphs of what you're going to be doing, and you're not really sure.

Well, what's prompting you to interview me for this job now? What's going on now? And that this person needs to comment, particularly if it's management or leadership. There's going to be a certain set of three or four goals that they want to accomplish in the next 12 months, basically when you're in a leadership position.

And so, number one, you get to hear what they're really looking for. And number two, it does inform you then, if you are hired, what you should be focusing on for that next year or so. Number three, when you ask that question, the interviewer will be wowed by the wisdom and the depth of the question, because it's such an important question. And the fourth thing is kind of related to these other things. It shows that you're interested in doing a good job. You really want to know what is the core responsibility and duties and goals for this person for you if you're hired and accomplishing that hopefully.

I'm getting a little excited here. But really that's the end of today's presentation. In addition to all the stuff that you should rehearse and all the background research you should do and the prepping, and make sure you wear the right clothes and show up on time and bring a copy of your resume and all those other things we already talked about, write that question down. Be prepared to answer it or by asking your question, which is the one that I said twice.

That's it for today. Don't forget to check out episode 223 with all those other tips at nonclinicalphysicians.com/first-job-interview so you can get more on that topic. When you are interviewing, do not expect to be a perfect interviewee the first few interviews.

Now some people, if you do all these things that I'm talking about, you might just get that first job that you interview for, but most people don't and we all get better with practice. But you're going to be doing all the things I've been talking about today and on the previous episode.

By the way, if you don't get the job, you should circle back to the recruiter or the HR person, hiring manager, or even the person who you'd be their direct report and just ask them what you could have done better. Was it lack of training? Was it lack of experience? Was it your attitude? Was it the interview? Was it resume? Was it cover letter rather? Try to learn from each interview as you go along.

You can find related links in the show notes and the transcript for this episode at nonclinicalphysicians.com/ace-your-interview.

I was going to go into my usual sponsor, but the reality is I only have one sponsor today. And that sponsor is Sandrow Consulting and its course "FROM HERE TO THERE: Leveraging Virtual Medicine."

And what I want to tell you about that is that the quickest way to jump off the healthcare hamster wheel, achieve more freedom, increase your income is to leverage virtual medicine. Sandrow Consulting is relaunching its comprehensive program for building and running your own telehealth business called "FROM HERE TO THERE: Leveraging Virtual Medicine" as I just said.

The program starts soon and there are a limited number of openings. So I encourage you to check it out at nonclinicalphysicians.com/freedom before the cap is reached on this because there's only so many students that she can accommodate. Now, if you do it quickly enough, there might be a webinar you can see. Otherwise you'll just go to their main page and it'll tell you all about this program and you can sign up there.

One thing I love about this program is that a freelance telehealth business can be a permanent solution or it can be a bridge to another non-traditional career because it's built on your existing clinical expertise. And you can quickly and safely create it using the insights learned by Dr. Sandrow's course. Again, learn more about it with no obligation by going to nonclinicalphysicians.com/freedom.

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The post 3 Top Tips to Ace Your Interview and Blow Away the Competition – 320 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Today's episode describes how to network during Phase 2 of The 12 Month Roadmap to a New Career.

A few years ago, I devised a 12-month plan of action that would lead to your first CMO job. The first month of this roadmap was introduced in Episode 269.

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How to Network

What is “networking?”

It is the process of interacting with others to exchange information and develop professional or social contacts. It involves leveraging the relationships you already have to expand the number of such relationships.

When considering a career transition, networking is crucial, especially if you're considering a change to an entirely new industry. Networking can be used to find a mentor, discover new jobs openings, and obtain an introduction to a hiring manager or human resources department director.

The usual ways to network are through:

• face-to-face at a meeting or conference;
• online on sites designed for networking, such as Doximity and LinkedIn; and,
• online using professional organizations such as the American Association for Physician Leadership, the Medical Science Liaison Society, or the American Medical Writers Association, all of which facilitate networking between members.

Networking Etiquette

Networking is a two-way street. Always try to be helpful to members of your network by finding useful connections for them, and facilitating their goals.

Start slowly, and nurture your connections over time.

Never place unreasonable demands on your network members.

Dr. John Jurica's Advice

…you need to approach people respectfully and considerately and not make it feel like you're going to be a burden…  Don't make it feel like a mentor has to be accountable for your career… a good rule of thumb is to remember to ask for advice, not for a job… 

Summary

It is best to engage in networking on a daily or weekly basis. Spend 30 to 60 minutes concentrating on growing your network, possibly 30 minutes each on LinkedIn and Doximity. Discover additional contacts, establish connections with them, and then start communicating with them through social media or email, and eventually consider a live call if it makes sense. But keep it short, and find a way to reciprocate with your “connections.”

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

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Links for Today's Episode:

• LinkedIn
• Doximity
• The Powerful But Overlooked Impact of Networking – 078
• How to Network Effectively to Become an MSL – 089
• How to Land An Awesome Job Using LinkedIn – 232
• NewScr!pt

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Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 271

How to Network Effectively on the Road to a New Career

John: All right. Well, let's get into this conversation about networking. Let me tell you a little story. I always thought that networking was kind of a dirty word. I'm an introvert, I'm not good at small talk. And I remember going to various conferences and meetings and they would say, "Okay, at four o'clock, at the end of the formal presentations, we would have networking time." And there would be a bunch of tables and you could have snacks, maybe something to drink, and you're supposed to introduce yourself and just chat with others who are going to the meeting. And I typically would go for a few minutes, maybe have a snack. That could be my short dinner, and then I'd leave. I'm not good at networking in that fashion. I'm not good at commiserating with people and making small talk, although I should have been networking for whatever I was there for the meeting so I could get more out of the meeting.

But that's just me. But I think it's very common. Physicians often say "We don't need to network." But obviously if you're doing something different from your typical clinical career, you might need to network to find a job or to connect with people to start a business, something like that, which I'll go into in a minute.

Let's step back. Let's look at networking and what it really is. To jump ahead a little bit, I would say now I'm very good at networking but the way I network is by podcasting. Since I started my podcast, and even while I was doing the blog, somewhat, that generates interest because people look at it and I post things on Facebook and I post things on LinkedIn and people respond to me. They start to listen. And then on top of that, I bring on guests to my podcast. Now I've developed a network of about 200 former guests, and that's led to participating with them at conferences. And so, actually that is how I got into really the most effective form of networking for me, which is the podcast.

Now, we're not talking about that primarily today, but I just want to let you know that I've kind of done a turnaround. And it turns out networking is very important when you're thinking about career transition, particularly if you're looking at career transition to a completely different field.

Now, as we talk about, of course, we're looking at using our healthcare background, our medical background, but we're going to move from, let's say, patient care to a non-patient care nonclinical activity. Again, let's go back to the basics and then we'll walk through this process and I'll touch on why it's important and really some tips on how to do it at this phase if you're working through this 12-month roadmap.

So, what is networking? It's a process of interacting with others to exchange information and develop professional or social contacts. That's kind of the base of what it is. And there usually has to be a goal that is accompanying that. But the main crux of networking is it involves growing the network as you're accessing the network. In other words, you use your current smaller network to develop a larger network. And so, it's often depicted as nodes with multiple connections. So, you might have three connections, but each of those three develop three more for you and it goes out and it's sort of exponential. If you do it properly, you can create a very large network.

I would say the most that people that focus heavily on this are recruiters and people who are in business trying to sell things, because the bigger the network, the more potential sales they can make to clients or customers. Networking really for us is usually used for several purposes. Just starting and growing a business, a club, a social group or whatever, you're trying to get more people, but people network sometimes as they're trying to get into a school. And because it helps to have connections at that school, medical school, college, whatever it might be.

So, there's a lot of networking that goes into that, and it's used to find an expert to help learn a new skill. A big piece of networking and how you network and what you do while you're networking is not to just jump to the sales, let's say if you're a salesman or not to just jump to asking for a job if you're interested in a career, but to learn about the whole aspect of the career, the job, the school you might be applying to.

There's a step in between that we're going to talk about in a minute. But to a large extent, networking is great to learn a new skill because you can connect with different people that have that skill and they all have different perspectives and you can learn from that. And then that will lead you into the next step in your networking, which is to actually use it to find a job in our case.

And like I said, for me, podcasting, and networking was great for finding guests. I network on LinkedIn. I find people that are physicians who are doing different jobs. I recruit them, they come on the podcast. I also do that by asking others in my existing network to give me referrals of others who might be a good guest. And sometimes people just call me or email me and just give me ideas without me even soliciting them. The power of a good network is, it's very active and it's very productive.

And so, in the old days, of course, how do we network? How did we network? In the old days it was, "Okay, you're going to network face-to-face." As I said, you'll go to a meeting and then afterward there'll be networking time. There are certain meetings where half the time for the meeting is networking time because it might be a professional organization that is putting on a meeting. Something like the AAPL, the American Association for Physician Leadership, the MSL Society, the American Medical Writers Association. They have meetings and a lot of times big parts of their meetings are spent in networking or just getting together with other people, discussing what they're doing with respect to that job or that profession. And they learn from one another in an informal way rather than sitting in a 30, 60, or 90-minute lecture. That's face-to-face.

You can do the same thing online. There are professional organizations that I just mentioned where you can actually network online through the organization. If you go to their websites and many other professional organizations, you're able to connect with them through messaging within the website for that particular organization. This brings me to the third, which is online social media. LinkedIn is probably the best. the best example. LinkedIn is an online profile, but it includes networking, it includes education, it includes a lot of other things besides just putting your profile up for people to look at.

And the other one that most of us should know about, that probably we should use more than I have in the past. And that's Doximity. You can go into Doximity. You can connect with a lot of people that already are in your life or were in your life. People you went to college with, people who you went to medical school with, people that you were in residency with, and then also the alumni from those organizations. So, that expands it very quickly.

And you can network obviously through Doximity directly because you can message people in Doximity and you can definitely do that on LinkedIn. And there are lots of strategies for improving and enlarging your network on LinkedIn by messaging people, you can pay extra to be able to message more people, and so forth. We're going to talk a little bit about that. But that's used oftentimes in a business to find leads. But we're going to be using it again to do two things basically, which again, I'll get into a little detail, but mostly it's to learn and then to contact people that can help you.

Those are the big ones. And then there might be some other ways that you can think of, but those are the ones that come to mind when we think about networking today. A lot more is remote. You can do it through blogs, you can do it through social media, and a lot of professional organizations, again, in an online fashion. And then you can call people. You can get on the phone and do networking.

Let me give you some examples of where networking really helps, some of the physicians I've talked to. We'll just call this one a cardiologist Dr. F. She had worked 25 years in her own practice and was an employed cardiologist. And she just reached the point where she wanted to do something different. And so basically, she started by contacting two medical school colleagues that she knew of. Each of them was working already as a medical director or an associate medical director in a life insurance company, which you don't find those people that come of, for some reason they were doing this.

And again, I don't know if she used Doximity or LinkedIn, but she knew that they were doing this. And then it occurred to her to contact them. And she started by asking them, not "Is there a job you can tell me about?" but she asked them about the job. She asked them to describe the job, did they like the job? What did they like, and what did they not like? She found that they were very happy in their jobs.

At that point, she moved to the next step to learn more about what a medical director for a life insurance company does. And then she started looking for jobs. She went online, she looked at different insurance companies based on what she was told by her colleagues. And really it only took her about six months and she landed her first job. Now that was a very accelerated process. Most of us will not find that job. Most of us, number one, will try to sift through different careers before we end up on one when we choose one. We might say it's something in pharma, maybe something in the hospital, maybe we want to do UM. Figure out which of those best suits our personality.

But she just kind of talked to her colleagues. They focused her right away on that particular job. She decided to specifically pursue that based on what they had told her. Then she went back and did the other things on LinkedIn and through other contacts found some companies that had openings, applied to those, and landed her first job in a little over six months, which is remarkable.

Now, another one of the colleagues that I've talked to on my podcast, Dr. H, she did the same thing. She decided she was going to leave medicine and she had no idea what to do, but she did start to zone in on pharma jobs. Now, in pharma jobs, most pharma companies have at least six to nine major divisions of which three or four of those employ physicians. Everything from basic clinical and research and applied research and so forth to sales. Most physicians don't go onto the sales side, but they go oftentimes into the MSL side.

She started looking, she thought she would do something in pharma. She didn't feel she was qualified for anything on the research side because of her background. And she started looking at profiles on LinkedIn of people that were doing pharma. And that gave her the ability to see what the different jobs were because they were describing the jobs that they did and then she could look those up. And then she would contact the people on LinkedIn and she would have short conversations, again, mostly about learning. "What does that entail? What do you do? What are the requirements?"

And by the way, I'm going to get into how you do this interaction in a minute. But she did that and she decided that the medical science liaison was the one she wanted to pursue. So, she started posting her resume. Well, she did several things. First of all, learned she needed to convert her CV to a resume, and she did that. And then she started sending her resumes into online sites that hired MSLs and there were hundreds and hundreds of jobs. And she told me there were some days when she was sending her resume to 200 different sites. And for months would have no return on that at all.

It wasn't really until she was able to network sufficiently to find somebody in one of the companies that she was applying to. That person, that recruiter, that HR person was able to then look for the resume when it was sent in. I think she probably sent it also directly to that person because there's a lot of screening that goes on through that online process. But anyway, after doing that, she got one job after applying to thousands of positions. And that was all it took because then that later allowed her to move to other jobs and other jobs. In fact, I think she even eventually moved out of the MSL role completely.

But those are two examples, and they were both based on networking. In one case it started with networking with people that you really were close to. And in the other case it was randomly reaching out, facilitating, and creating relationships with people and then using those to focus in on a particular job and to connect with someone that could then help facilitate that process.

When you're thinking about networking like this, and you probably can tell from what I've said so far, you need to focus on at some point what it is you're going to use it for. Again, I always say there are different phases. Early in your networking, you should tell yourself, "Look, I'm mostly networking so I can find people that might be doing the type of job I would want to do. I'm trying to confirm that. And then I'm trying to learn from them what the job entails now."

And sometimes, they can point you in directions to things like professional organizations and societies that often, as I said, have some formal networking built in the organization. But you wouldn't know to go to that organization until you were told by someone in your network that that's what you should do. And then you should do that for a while. You should use those people as mentors, but later then you need to start using them as connectors either to a recruiter or a company or hiring manager, or even sometimes they connect you directly to the head of the department or the division that's hiring. Those are all the people in an organization that ultimately you want to get to. So, you can send them your resume and cover letter rather than sending it blindly to some online portal.

Let's talk a minute about creating this network. And it may not be so much creating the network as defining your network. So, your network already exists. Whether you use a network or not, it already exists. Your network is people that you know, people that you're acquainted with, and people that you've interacted in the past with, and that includes the following.

And actually, what I want you to do as part of the process of doing this networking is I want you to write down and define your current network. And so, you're going to make a list, and I want you to not filter it at all because it's easy to drop people off later that may perhaps for some reason aren't really useful for your networking. But when you're creating the initial list, you should put all these people down. You can type them out, you can write them out by hand, you can put on stickies, you can do whatever you like.

But let's just try to think through this process during the rest of this episode, and also sit down and do it later. So, make a list, of all your family, and all your friends. You might even put down is there some way that they could be helpful to my career search? Because certain family and friends will be, and certain ones won't. You might have family and friends who are physicians. Okay, that's an automatic in. Do they have friends? Do they have colleagues? Do they have knowledge? You've maybe never spoken to them about that. So, you're going to go to your cousin who's a physician in another town and say, "Hey, are you still practicing? Do you have friends who are doing nonclinical? Do you know anything about that? What can you tell me?"

So, you got family, friends, college classmates, and alumni. You have a connection to the alumni even though you may not have worked directly with them. But let's face it, if you were in university, you were probably pre-med if you're a physician or pre-nursing if you're a nurse. And so most people that you went to school with were in the same program. Now they're doing that job as well. You may not have been with them in medical school, you may not have been with them in residency, but now they still may be practicing and maybe they've moved on to a nonclinical position.

And you do have that connection with the alumni if you've ever called somebody or met somebody and said "You and I went to the same medical school." But anyway, you had things in common with that person. Maybe you're both living in the same area because you went to the same school. Maybe you both went to a similar residency after medical school. But again, those are connections. The alumni is not as strong a connection as a classmate, but it is a connection. So, write all those things down.

Now, as we get into medical school classmates and alumni, you can expand on those lists. Instead of just going by memory or maybe you've got a roster from your class. Maybe you were in a huge medical school class and you've got a roster from that class from 10 or 15 years ago. Maybe you have a roster of all the alumni from that medical school. Some schools publish that. If you don't, you can go to other places. You can go to Doximity at doximity.com and LinkedIn, linkedin.com, and you can start looking and you can start searching.

So, you can search, for example, in LinkedIn by college and medical school. You can search in Doximity the same way. And then you can start to build that and refresh your memory. Maybe you'll see that in Doximity this physician is there and you go, "Oh yeah, I remember that person." But you never would've remembered that person. And actually, Doximity is built to connect you with your former classmates and alumni because it actually prompts you to add those people. LinkedIn doesn't do that. You have to search for them, but LinkedIn has other things that help you to network.

And then you've got your residency and fellowship, your classmates if you want to call them that, co-residents, and the alumni from those. And then you can move up to coworkers in your current and previous jobs, whether you're employed in a practice. What about all the physicians that run the medical staff when you were on that 500-bed hospital's medical staff? And you're not going to know all those people, but this is a source and you can start to look them up, see what they're doing.

And then, in this whole mix is a very, very, very tiny group of networking colleagues who are going to be the references for your job search. Maybe I should put it right at the very beginning. But keep them in mind because you're going to use them. You're going to ask them to be a reference. That's first of all. They're close to you, they know you, and they support you already. But you want to treat them like you will the rest of the members of this network that you're creating. And you want to ask them or let them know what you're doing, see if they have colleagues that are doing something that you might want to do because that's going to be really the strongest connection you'll have. If you're using a family member, a close friend, or a reference who's a professional reference for the next job you might be applying for, they're going to be very supportive and it's going to help you a lot.

One thing you should do in this process is cross reference the different sources if you can. So, what I mean by that is, like what I've mentioned, if there's someone in your network that you know through somebody else already and they're on your list, you should look them up on LinkedIn because you want to make sure you understand where they are now. Now not everyone will be on LinkedIn, but between Doximity and LinkedIn, you should be able to tell what they're doing.

And so, this is part of the research you're going to do at the beginning of the process. Let's say that you had a roster of 30 people that you went to medical school with. Well, you might just go to LinkedIn and Doximity and look them up and see what they're doing now. Now those sites aren't always kept up to date, but they're usually pretty accurate. I find LinkedIn to be a little more current than Doximity but Doximity has more people that are clinical than let's say LinkedIn would have.

All right, enough about that. You want to create this thing and you want to write it down. There are probably software programs you can use if you were in sales or something, but it's really not necessary because you're only going to be using this for the most part temporarily while you're in this, what I call a 12-month roadmap to a new career. So, we're getting started on this part early in this roadmap.

As you begin to contact these individuals, well, let's talk about how you're going to contact them. You can email them. You can message them through a professional organization as I've mentioned. You can message or contact them through social media. Of course, LinkedIn is set up to do that. Doximity is set up to do that. But maybe you're connected through Twitter or some other thing. Maybe you're both posting on clinical topics or you're both posting about how much burnout you have or what have you. You can reach out that way.

But then of course is a lot of networking that goes on in person. So, you meet people, specifically, let's say I have a medical society that I participate with where I am. And so, even though I don't work with these people anymore, because I don't work in this county, I'm always running into these other physicians and I can keep up with them and say, "Hey, what's going on? Are you still practicing?" And someone will say, "Well I started some sidelines, some side businesses, side hustles, whatever you want to call them. I'm doing something different. I'm looking about changing to this or that." That's in person at a meeting, which the meeting would be for another purpose, but there you go. You're going to meet them face to face. And then just getting on a phone call. Say, "Can we have a quick call?" With my podcast and what I've been doing and courses and so forth, I usually get on a Zoom call. I like to be able to see the person as though I am talking to them face to face. But obviously, it's remote.

Some bits of advice about how to be when you're networking. Even though we all pretty much know what a network is, we know what it's for, it's unseemly and it's off-putting if you come on aggressively. Get on the phone or send somebody an email saying "I just decided I'm going to look for a nonclinical job. I'm really reaching out to everybody I know and I'd like it if you could spend 30 minutes on a call with me to tell me what you're doing." No, you have to be, it's like when I've talked about using a mentor. You cannot put so much pressure on the mentor and someone in your network in a way is a mentor or could be a mentor.

And so there shouldn't be a lot of pressure. In fact, it should be very light at the beginning. You should be authentic, you should be yourself, and you should be considerate. And you want to spend however you're connecting with that person, whether it's via email, asynchronously or synchronously on a call of some sort, or through a messaging function. Just connect. That's it. Just connect. Connect and remind them who you are and ask them some questions about themselves. The people who are the most popular at parties or even in any kind of get-together are those who ask the most questions and listen to the answers.

So, you don't go at somebody and ask them to tell you what you should do and how you should learn this new skill and who should you apply to? Can you give me the name of somebody? That should all be later. In the beginning, you want to be slow, you want to be considerate. And if you can at all, figure out some way you can help them first.

Now it may sound hokey, but if you can give a compliment, that always helps. That also tells you that you know them. Let's say that you heard them speak or that someone referred you to them that told you, "Hey, this is a nice person. They're very knowledgeable." Bring that up and then ask them some questions. "How have you been? What are you doing? I'm really curious to find out whether you're still practicing or not." And really you have to take this slow. It's a nurturing process.

Now, you don't want to do this over a period of 10 different meetings, but you need to approach people respectfully and considerately and not make it feel like you're suddenly going to be a burden. And again, mention this with mentors. Don't make it feel like a mentor has to be accountable for your career. It's not. The point of a mentor is to answer questions and keep you from making mistakes. Same thing with networking to some extent.

And I think a good thing, a good rule of thumb is to really remember to ask for advice and try not to ask for the job or a job. "Do you know anyone who can hire me? Or are you hiring right now for this position? I heard that you work for this and you're a medical director or you're a CMO or a VP." No, ask first for advice. People like giving advice. "Hey, is there something I can do to maybe learn more about this?" And they'll tell you about a book. They'll tell you about an organization. They'll tell you about a blog or something like that. It should be brief to the point and not be onerous to that person. And take your time, develop and nurture those relationships.

So, what not to do? Sometimes it's easier to say what not to do. Do not monopolize your colleagues' time and don't focus only on what you need or want. That should come later and gradually. That's basically what I wanted to say about networking. You'll find as I have that there are ways to network that are very gentle for yourself as well as the other person that is not overwhelming for either of you.

Networking works best if you can do a little bit each day or each week. Spend 30 minutes to an hour focusing on that. Maybe focus 30 minutes on LinkedIn, and 30 minutes on Doximity. Find more people, connect with them, and then start spending time sending them a message or an email or eventually after interacting a couple of times having a live call of some sort with them. I think the process of starting with education and then moving to referrals is a good one. And really once you get this thing rolling, it kind of continues on its own. For example, when I started my LinkedIn profile and tried to build a network, I had to go out and actively try and figure out who I wanted to reach out to.

Now I have people every day asking me to connect 2, 3, 4 a day. I don't have a huge LinkedIn following, but I've got a couple thousand. And just the other day I was looking for a new podcast guest. And so, I just went through the recent people that connected with me, I looked at what their backgrounds were, picked out some that were physicians that were doing nonclinical work. I reached out to them and two of them agreed to come on to my podcast.

Well, the parallel is, okay, you're going to reach out, you're going to interact with people, you're going to connect with them. Maybe you'll have a phone call. You'll find out that they're doing a nonclinical job that you would like to do. You're going to learn more about that from them in little tiny snippets. And then eventually you're going to ask them to keep their eyes open, if any jobs open up where they're working if it's something geographically that fits with you.

I think that's all I want to say today about networking. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me at john.jurica.md@gmail.com or go to the website at nonclinicalphysicians.com and look around. You can join my email list. And then when you're on my list and you get my emails, if you respond, it actually comes to that same email address. It comes directly to me. It doesn't get filtered out. So, you can do that.

The show notes for today's episode can be found at nonclinicalphysicians.com/how-to-network.

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Many of the links that I refer you to are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you.

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post How to Network Effectively on the Road to a New Career – 271 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

This week, we revisit the 8 mistakes that will derail a job search from Episode 180.

You can find the show notes for the original episode HERE.

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By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

#2 – Being intimidated by a job description.

Looking at job postings in a variety of industries is a good way to begin. But the second of 8 mistakes is becoming intimidated by them. That long list of experiences and credentials includes many “nice to have” items. It is a rare candidate who meets all of them.

Early in the process, the primary reason to review job postings is to understand the expectations of the job, and the jargon that is used by those in that industry. That will help you to decide whether to pursue it and identify actions to take now to enhance your chances of landing it later.

#3 – Preparing a CV rather than a resumé.

A CV (curriculum vitae) is a long list of publications, presentations, educational experiences, and degrees obtained. When searching for a nonclinical position, most employers expect to receive a resumé that highlights your accomplishments and skills. 

Those accomplishments typically describe quantifiable results. That enables an employer to imagine how you will deliver results and solve a problem for them.

You should limit the length of your resume to two pages. And a one-page resumé may be sufficient for younger candidates just getting started.

#4 – Using the same cover letter and resume for different jobs or different industries.

Each job has unique requirements. Your resumé and cover letter should demonstrate why you meet the requirements for each specific posting being sought.

A generic cover letter and resumé imply that you don't know in which job you are most interested and for which you are best suited.

#5 – Depending too much on online applications and not leveraging networks.

Sending your resumé to a specific recipient is preferable to submitting it blindly to an anonymous online destination. It is best to identify someone to send it to such as a recruiter or someone in the human resources (HR) department.

Sometimes you will need to network to find such a contact. Reconnecting with old medical school classmates, former co-residents, and people you've practiced with can be helpful.

And, you can use Doximity, LinkedIn, or other social media sites to nurture relationships with those employed at one of your prospective employers.

#6 – Not learning the jargon of the field we’re pursuing

Every field has, in a sense, its own language. The 6th of the 8 mistakes is not learning to speak that language when applying for and interviewing for a job. Learn the jargon by reviewing job descriptions, reading industry publications, and attending meetings for industry insiders. 

#7 – Not taking the interview seriously

There are several common mistakes that demonstrate a lack of experience and preparation for live interviews, including

• not bringing extra copies of your resumé,
• dressing inappropriately,
• arriving early, and,
• talking too much, and listening too little.

#8 – Not preparing sufficiently

Read and reread the job description so that you can respond intelligently to questions about your suitability for the job. Thoroughly research the company, and its mission, vision, and values. Understand its financial situation.

If the company is a nonprofit organization, look up its 990 Form on Guidestar.org. Review stock reports if the company is publicly traded. And read its past 3 years of annual reports if available.

BONUS Mistakes to AVOID:

#1 – Failure to prepare a COMPLETE LinkedIn Profile. Many employers look at your LinkedIn profile. You will improve your chances of being invited for an interview by filling in the gaps in your profile.

#2 – After the interview, but before accepting the offer, not investigating the employer with other employees, customers, and physicians to determine if it will be a good fit for you.

Summary

There is no perfect applicant for any job. Your mission is to demonstrate to your potential employer that you have sufficient skills, knowledge, and attitudes to meet its needs and help advance the mission of the organization.

Applying for a job and performing well during interviews is a set of skills that improve with practice. Don't be discouraged because it takes time and repetition to improve. By avoiding the above errors, you will improve your chances of landing that new job more quickly.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Episode #180: 8 Common Mistakes That Will Derail a Job Search
• LinkedIn
• Doximity
• Guidestar
• Your Resume is the Passport to That Desirable Job – 157
• How to Land An Awesome Job Using LinkedIn – 232
• NewScr!pt

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Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription - PNC Episode 270

Podcast Blast From the Past: 8 Mistakes That Derail a Job Search

I recently joined Michelle Mudge-Riley and her free webinars to talk about mistakes that will derail a job search. We listed the major ones that we have witnessed and took questions from the audience. So, I thought I would spend some time talking about those today and summarize what we discussed.

I had to narrow it down to just eight today because there are just numerous mistakes that can be made. Now having said that, I do want to say again that I was on a call with Michelle Mudge-Riley. We were answering questions and going through many of these. So, I stole one or two from her. But she gave me her permission to further acknowledge what Michelle is doing by the way. Her next conference is starting in two months. I think it's on March 5th, 5th through 9th. She's going to be talking about a lot of these topics at her conference.

Her company is Physicians Helping Physicians and you can just look it up and you'll find out about her conference. But again, I want to thank her for inviting me on her webinar. And I know she's going to have a great conference in March and then there'll be a second one later in the year. I think it's in November. So, she had three last year and they were fantastic. So, with that, let's move into today's content.

Now I'm going to try and go through and even bring up examples as I go, because I've seen all of these and I've made a few of these mistakes myself. I think these are kind of the bigger mistakes that I've seen.

If you make a mistake in the process, it's not going to be the end of the world. You're still going to get that nonclinical job, but the fewer mistakes you make and the more prepared you are going in, the quicker this job transition will occur.

So, here are the mistakes that will derail a job search.

Number one: tunnel vision and not keeping an open mind. Most of us really don't even know what kind of jobs are out there. I mean, sure. We can look for another clinical job, similar to what we're doing. We can look for a better company to work for, or join a partnership that's run by doctors, that's more fun to work with.

But if we've made the decision to explore nonclinical jobs, the thing is, there are so many out there that you probably know nothing about. Now, if you've already done a little research, okay, great. But the thing is, if you narrow your focus too early, you're really shutting a lot of doors that might have otherwise eventually led to a much better outcome. I think you need to keep an open mind. You need to remain curious and you need to give yourself a chance to look around.

Now, as every coach has told me that I've interviewed and talked to, you shouldn't be in a big hurry to start and accomplish this whole process. You need to take your time, reflect, think about the kind of situation you'd like to find yourself in, in one to five years from now. And then start doing some research and expose yourself to different nonclinical jobs if that's the route you're going.

Usually, you come to a decision where it's like, "I just don't want to deal with patients because I can't avoid the liability if I'm still dealing with patients. I can't avoid the call. I can't avoid the constant pressure of feeling like I'm dealing with someone's life".

So, once you've made that decision, just step back and start looking. There are lots of resources out there, but you should really dig into what are the possible jobs. You should keep an open mind about how you will find a job. So, you think of, "Well, there's only one way to do it. The way I've done it in the past." No, keep open about the possible jobs, the possible industries and the jobs within those industries. The process for getting the job may not be as obvious as you think.

And also keep an open mind about your capabilities. I have people that say all the time, "Well, all I know is medicine" and I've addressed this before, but medicine is not one thing. Medicine is like the ultimate stack of skills - Physiology, anatomy, biochemistry, all the other sciences, communication, presentations, how to use technology and how to think. Not to mention all these attitudes and characteristics you've accumulated over time - The dependability, the responsibility and the ability to lead teams and all that. So, keep an open mind. Don't tunnel, don't get tunnel vision. That's number one.

Number two: being intimidated by a job description. So, let's say you're just exploring because you don't have to wait until you've narrowed the job to just one field in one industry. In fact, looking at job descriptions can be a way to do your research. So, look at job descriptions in a hospital work, look at job descriptions in pharma, look at job descriptions in insurance, health insurance, UM jobs, disability insurance, medical director, and health insurance.

Look at other things. Part-time gigs perhaps about expert witness work or blogs and podcasts about jobs in other industries, such as medical writing or consulting. But anyway, if you're going to actually apply for a job, ultimately you feel like you're going to work for a large corporation, which would be pharma or insurance or hospital systems.

Then even early in the process, look at the job descriptions, but don't get intimidated by them. I mean, think about it. Let's say you were running a big corporation or just your practice for that matter and you're going to hire somebody. What are you going to put in the job description" You're going to put everything in there you could possibly want and hope that somebody that has at least 80% - 90% of those skills applies. So, nobody that's applies is going to be perfect for any job.

And similarly, when a big pharma company or a hospital is putting out a job description, it's going to put everything in there that it wants. But the recruiting manager, the HR people, they know they're not going to get everything that they want. So, you can start by looking and seeing the words "preferred" versus "mandatory". So, if they say a medical degree is mandatory, well, probably a medical degree is mandatory, but if they say five years, experience is preferred. Well, that means if they get 10 candidates with five or more years experience, and you only have one, they're probably going to pick somebody from that list.

On the other hand, if nobody with five years of experience is applying and you've got three years of experience and everything else on your resume looks awesome, then you're going to get to job. So, we hear this a lot. MSLs a lot of times you're looking for someone with experience as an MSL - Medical Science Liaison, but guess what" They sometimes just have to take someone who has all the other attributes and has no experience in. I've definitely heard that from my guests who have told me it said that they wanted this, they wanted some background board certification, whatever, and yet they still were hired despite of not having every last bullet point on that job description.

Number three: preparing a CV rather than a resume. So, most of you know the difference I hope, but if not, basically it boils down to the fact that the CV is what someone who is teaching or an academics uses. And it's a list of all the education, publications, presentations. I mean, sometimes these CVs can be like 5, 6, 10 pages long, especially for an academic position.

But once you get away from applying for an academic position, it's a little different. They're looking more for a resume, which again, the definition there would be something that starts with a personal profile or a projected plan - What is it you're looking for in a few sentences and then a list of accomplishments. And those accomplishments generally indicate some measurable outcomes attached to them.

And then down the rest later on is going to be your education, your previous positions. But what's important is what you've done in those positions not so much what the position was. Because saying that you were the medical director or saying that you were the chair of a committee or whatever, it doesn't tell you really what you did. But at the same time in a resume, you want to keep it to two pages. For younger people that are just getting started, one page resume might be fine. There's no sense filling it with nonsense. But for someone who's a little more experienced, try to keep it to two pages because number one, they're not usually going to read it, but what they're going to be looking for is on the first page is, what are you looking for" And a job in X doing Y and what are the accomplishments that demonstrate that you've done the things that they're looking for as maybe outlined in the job description that's posted, or maybe someone has actually talked to you about what they're looking for.

So, if you can say, let's say rather than like "I managed this department for four years", it would be better to say "As a manager for the quality department, my team under my direction was able to reduce the complication rate following surgery, let's say total hip surgery by 20%, or reduce the costs in this service line by X percent". You get the idea.

That is what's in a resume. So, don't just throw the CV that you may have used in the past when you were looking for your residency. So, you had a CV for your history in medical school and undergrad and things you did in between, different jobs and different academic things you've done. But no, you want to put on the resume, that what you've accomplished with measurable outcomes, that they can translate into things that would be applicable to the job you're applying for now.

This one is actually one of the more important of these eight, because it's very common to have someone who has been sending out a cover letter and a resume for months and months. And after simply hiring a coach or spending a little time, doing a little more research and customizing the resume to the job they're applying for that they get that job. And it's all because of what's in that resume.

Now, I've heard recently that some companies are using a form of AI to screen their resumes, meaning they're basically looking for keywords. These are companies that are getting a lot of applications for the same position. So, this would be probably more common in a position as more of an entry level, like a UM physician advisor role, or in a big company, or maybe an MSL role. So, these jobs are very popular, starting jobs for nonclinical careers, for physicians. And it's possible that they're doing some kind of a machine screening, I guess, is what I would call it where no one's actually looking at the resume. They're just looking for the keywords that you mentioned.

So, again, I would say that when you're doing a resume, do a little research, how to structure it, there's a lot more to it than what I've mentioned. You definitely want to include keywords in your resume that tie back to the written job description and then the accomplishments and measurable outcomes. That that'll get you started. Again, there are resume coaches out there, those that are physicians and non-physicians who specialize in helping people prepare a professional resume. Because resumes are so important, let's talk about another resume mistake.

Number four: using the same cover letter and resume for different jobs or different industries. I definitely have seen resumes that seem rather generic. Even so far as in the position statement or the summary at the top saying something like "Looking for a position in leadership role in health insurance or pharma industry." That would be such a big red flag right there, because someone in pharma is going to look at that and go, "Well, I guess they don't really want to be in pharma." I mean, if they're okay with being in health insurance, that's not the same as pharma and vice versa. That's a big one right there.

The other thing is that each employer has its own needs. In my case, for example, I was put over the medical group as it was growing, as a VPMA and then Chief Medical Officer. I never did have responsibility for the medical group for like the first 10 years I worked at the hospital. I was focused on quality and utilization and clinical documentation improvement of pharmacy, the lab, so on and so forth.

There came a point when I was over the medical group, but I couldn't do it myself so I needed to have a VP for the medical group. I'm not even sure what we called that position. It may be a little different than that, but anyway and I wanted the VP to help us manage the 30 physicians that were in the group and help us grow the group as we began, not only to hire new physicians, but actually recruit local physicians who were in practice and mostly small practices.

But you can imagine if you were applying for that job, as opposed to applying for a job in a mature multi-specialty group with over a hundred physicians run by the hospital across town, that's focusing less on recruitment and less on buying practices and more on adding service lines and different products - that would be a completely different resume and cover letter. You want to customize those specifically to each and every employer.

Now, you can have a kind of a template that has 90% of the same information. If you're applying to, let's say, multiple hospitals for a director, medical director, or even a CMO role, yeah, 90% can be the same. But if you know specifics about the particular organization, which should be clear in the job description or based on your research, then you should customize the resume and the cover letter to that information and that organization. By the way, you should be sending this to a person, which I'll talk about a little bit in the next, but that goes into also customizing that cover letter.

Number five: depending too much on electronic applications and not leveraging networking. So, it kind of ties back to the resume and the cover letter. It's always better to send those to some person specifically that you've been able to identify if possible. And this also ties back to how you find the person in the first place or get the job or find the job in the first place.

I remember one time I was interviewing one of my guests who just suddenly felt anxious to leave her job. I don't actually remember why at this moment, but she was a very good clinician and she had enjoyed it for years and then she had to leave. I think maybe because she was moving or something happened to the organization she was working for. So, rather than just start looking through wide ends, so to speak and job boards, she started talking to some of her former medical school classmates. And I think maybe her residents had programs that she had attended when she did a residency, the people that were with her there.

Lo and behold, she found that some of them had nonclinical jobs. And one of them said that the company he or she was working for, needed a medical director for the company, which was a life insurance company, which are not easy jobs to come by. But she just happened to be in the right place at the right time. She applied, she landed the job and she loves the job. She's been there. I think more than 10 years at this point.

Now how likely is at the happen" Not that likely that the first person gives you some advice, you're going to take the job and you're going to love it, but you just never know. But I tell you in a way, getting a job referral, because that person knows you, they know what you're like. They know perhaps your strengths and weaknesses. They're going to tell you about jobs that they think you're going fit in with.

Definitely, I've had many guests on my podcast tell me that sending resumes into a link on a website or on a job board, or let's say through indeed or something, they think it's a waste of time. Literally for the MSL position, I've had people tell me that, that did not work. And then when they had someone they could actually reach out to or refer to from a friend or something, they did much better.

Networking is a foreign concept to many of us because we're introverts. We were competitive in medical school and we worked out on our own and we accomplished what we accomplished. But we have a twisted concept of networking. It's standing around at a reception at the end of an all-day conference, handing out business cards. And really that kind of networking probably doesn't help either.

I would say the networking that you do, if it's reconnecting with old medical school classmates, former co-residents, people you've practiced with. And you could do it directly if you have their email, their phone number, or you can go on Doximity or LinkedIn, reconnect with these people, ask them what they're up to. And then you can get a little bit into the less direct knowledge group of people.

In other words, you can just start looking for keywords in LinkedIn, for example, and say, "Okay, well, who's on LinkedIn that is a medical science liaison" And maybe I can find out how they were able to transition." Or I'm looking for someone who is working in a disability company as a medical director. Or maybe I can network through a group like the American Association for Physician Leadership if I want to be a Hospital Executive or I can network through the American Medical Writers Association if I learn about becoming a medical writer, where to apply. Or maybe I can go to The American Academy of Insurance Medicine and find out how those people are getting jobs.

Networking in that sense is probably much more effective. And if you can get the name of someone and send them your cover letter and resume and possibly even call them before you send it, they're going to be looking for it and they're going to take a much closer look at it.

Number six: not learning the jargon of the field you're pursuing. Every field has as its own vernacular, so to speak. So, the terms we use in hospital management are different if we're focused just on quality improvement, although there's a lot of overlap there. But you get into clinical documentation improvement. It has its own utilization management. It has its own jargon expert witnesses, use different jargon, a lot of legalese. Pharma jobs have specific terms.

If you're an MSL and someone told me about this, that they went to apply for a job as a medical science liaison. Someone asked them about a KOL and they really didn't know what it was. They kind of answered the question, but even though I think they use the term Key Opinion Leader, but really that's what an MSL does is deal with key opinion leaders and influencers. And they use that term all the time. And if you don't know what that term is, and haven't done enough research to figure that out going in, then you really haven't done your homework. You shouldn't go into these jobs, not really knowing what you're getting into.

If you want to be sincere about becoming a medical director for a particular company, then you need to know what a medical director for that company does and the jargon that they use. And you can learn that just by joining one of these societies or just going online and Googling around and find out what MSLs talk about and find out what medical monitors talk about. If you're in pharma, you're going to want to know phase one, two, three, what is pharmacovigilance, and so on and so forth.

And then to go back to something we talked about earlier, you want to use those terms in the cover letter and the resume and during your interviews to show that you at least understand the language. You may not have experience applying those terms, or actually interacting, let's say with a key opinion leader, but you know what the term means.

Number seven: not taking the interview seriously. Now that's a vague mistake, but it's because I wanted to put multiple issues in here. So basically, it's a bunch of things that you can do wrong during the interview, because you haven't really thought through how you're going to approach the interview, but includes things like not bringing a copy of your resume. Oddly enough, people that are interviewing you might not actually have a copy. They may have had a copy. They may have looked at a copy two or three weeks ago. Now when they're doing the interview it would be nice for you to bring one, just in case they don't have it.

Maybe you are really concerned about how you dress, but you should dress professionally. It wouldn't matter if you were overdressed compared to everybody. Let's say you're working in some small clinic and everyone is semi-casual when they're working. It doesn't mean you shouldn't go in a suit. Of course, you should. You should dress up. You can always dress down when you're working, but you can't go in there sloppy and then everyone's in a suit and tie. You're not going to feel like you fit in at all and they're not going to think you are either.

If you fail to arrive early so that you can anticipate any problems, you got to give yourself time to walk around and look around. Get a feel for the organization. Go to the reception desk where you're checking in at least 10 minutes early.

Other things like you should listen more than you talk. You're not there to give them a lecture on how wonderful you are. First you have to listen from them because each person that's doing an interview has their own particular pet peeves and interests for this person moving into this job. The CEO will have a different perspective than someone that you're working alongside, or in the hospital setting, for example, the CEO, the COO, the CFO, they're all going to have different perspectives on why you should be hired or not.

And so, you need to listen to what they are interested in. If they say, "Well, here's a problem we've had..." and now you can tell them how you can address that problem. But if you just go into some long litany about why you're the greatest thing since sliced bread, it's not even going to align with the things they're looking for because you're going to be off on some tangent.

So, listen more than you talk and ask questions. Some people have said you should really only do 20% of the talking. Mostly you should be listening. So, prepare for the interview and go into it professionally. That's one mistake that I see made not infrequently. And again, it ties into mistake number eight.

Number eight: not preparing sufficiently. So, when I talked about some of the things in the previous parts, a lot of it has to do with not preparing. Not looking through the job description in detail.

Now, granted I've had this happen many times where my HR department put out a job description and I looked at it and I said, "Well, that's not really what I'm looking for" and this person is reporting to me. So, there can be a disconnect, which is why you have to ask once you're there. But you should look at it, look at the keywords they're using, look at the "must haves" and the "would like to haves" and see how you can convince them that you have similar experience. It might not be the exact experience they put in the job description or the posting. So, think about that.

And actually, do research on the position beyond that and on the organization. Now in the hospital setting, it can be quite easy because hospitals are ranked and they're measured and they're rated. And if they're a nonprofit, you can go to guidestar.org and look them up. You can look at their financials. If they're a publicly traded company, you can look at stock reports. Again, if it's a hospital, either there's rating agencies and you can get a pretty good feel about the nature of the organization, but you have to spend an hour or so, just getting their background and not walk in as though you have no idea who these people are.

Now, it can be hard. If you're applying in the large UM company, they're going to be interviewing a ton of people who are going to be doing only probably telephone or video interviews who are going to be shorter. They're not going to care if you know how well the company is doing from a basic financial standpoint, but when you get it into a smaller medical communications company or a hospital, it's going to help to know really what's going on. And that includes looking at their annual reports if they have one and looking at news in that county or that town in terms of what's going on at the company, if they're big enough to make it into the news.

So those are the main things that I wanted to mention today. So, to summarize here are the mistakes that will derail a job search.

Number 1 - Going in with tunnel vision and not keeping an open mind.

Number 2 - Being intimidated by the job description.

Number 3 - Preparing a CV rather than a resume.

Number 4 - Using the same cover letter and resume for different jobs or even different industries.

Number 5 - Depending too much on the online applications and not leveraging networks and networking as much as you should.

Number 6 - Not learning the jargon of the field that you're pursuing.

Number 7 - Not taking the interview seriously.

Number 8 - Not preparing sufficiently.

So those are the big eight. I know I'm a little over, but I do have two bonus mistakes to avoid.

One is the failure to prepare a complete LinkedIn profile. That's going to come in handy. You can get jobs by people finding your LinkedIn profile. We didn't talk about that, but let me just say quickly that you should have a recent photo in there. You might have a background picture and the whole thing should be complete. You should have a description with keywords in it. Everything you've done job wise, everything you've done education wise, anything you've published. It's very, very complete. It would be much longer than your written resume. And so, you can put a lot more in there, including all the things you volunteered for that are pertinent.

The other bonus mistake to avoid really comes afterwards and it's really not about landing the job, but it's about whether you should take the job. Let me just say this: Would you marry someone or accept or even ask for someone to marry you if you hadn't gone to more than one or two dates" Most of us wouldn't.

So, you should do some digging and learn more about the employer after the interview is done in terms of what it's like to work there. You can do that beforehand to some extent, but don't just jump into a job that you might be at for 10 or 15 years if it works out. You don't want to be stuck in that thing and be back where you're starting now. So, talk to other employees, talk to customers, talk to other physicians.

Check and see if there is physician leadership in the organization. The more physician leadership, the less likely you're going to work where there's a lot of burnout. Because physicians managing physicians generally do a better job and there's usually more engagement, less burnout.

Like I say, most of us don't make or accept a marriage proposal after one or two dates. And those that do are often disappointed. So, the same thing applies to most jobs. You'll be married to this new employer potentially for decades. So, do more research work, walk the halls. If there are nurses involved in what you're doing, ask them because they know all the doctors, they know all these things that are going on, especially in a clinical situation. But talk to someone similar to a nurse position if you're looking at a MSL job or UM job too.

Okay, that's it. I am going too long now. I want you to go get that new job, avoid all these mistakes that I mentioned today. Thanks for listening. I do appreciate you. The links for today's show can be found at nonclinicalphysicians.com/mistakes-that-will-derail-a-job-search.

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The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

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The post Podcast Blast From the Past: 8 Mistakes That Derail a Job Search – 270 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

On today’s show, I provide 8 Tips to Help You Prepare for Your First Job Interview. This is a critical part of your nontraditional job search. 

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We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Preparing for Your First Job Interview

It is important to prepare sufficiently for the interview. This preparation includes:

• Adopting the right attitude,
• Understanding the organization and the job, and,
• Knowing that performing well may take practice (i.e., attending several interviews).

Listen to the entire episode to hear all of the details. There is also a transcript below.

Eight Great Tips

1. Bring Copies of Your Resume

Not everybody may have received a copy. And some interviewers may have left it behind. So, be prepared, and bring copies to share.

2. Dress Properly and Present the Right Body Language

Your appearance and demeanor are important. Do NOT dress down, even if the company appears to have a relaxed atmosphere. And present an open posture. Avoid crossing your arms. And sit forward attentively.

3. Do Your Research

Prepare yourself using sources such as:

• Annual reports,
• Online searches,
• Guidestar for nonprofits,
• Standard & Poor's or other online stock reports for publicly traded companies,
• Hospital Compare and other quality reporting sites,  and,
• Speak with your own colleagues at the organization.

4. Be prepared to Describe Your Selling Points

Memorize a few traits, success stories, special training, and other factors that make you the ideal candidate for the job.

5. Line Up Your Questions

Be prepared to ask pertinent questions. Demonstrate that you have a good understanding of the organization. Be sincerely inquisitive about big initiatives underway. And try to pinpoint the skills and experience they are looking for in a candidate.

6. Start and Stay Positive 

Be happy and enthusiastic about being there. Offer appreciation to each interviewer.  Never go negative about a previous employer or manager.

7. Be Assertive But Not Pushy

Try to make all of your points. Get answers to all of your questions. But be patient and do not dominate the conversation. You should listen more than you speak.

8. Close with CLARITY

Make a clear statement about your interest in the job. Be sure to have clarity about the next steps. How long until a decision is made? Who will be contacting you? Can you call in a few days to check on your standing?

Summary

Interviewing can be stressful, especially at first. If you get to the point of an interview, you’re almost at the finish line. Don’t expect perfection in the first few interviews. You will get better with practice.

Try to learn from each interview. If you don’t get the job, follow up later for constructive feedback. It could be your demeanor or approach. Or maybe you lack a particular skill or certification that can be addressed before future interviews.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Guidestar
• Medicare Quality Reporting (hospitals, nursing homes, hospices)
• Five Tactics for a Powerful Interview

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcript for PNC Podcast Episode 223

8 Great Tips to Help You Prepare for Your First Job Interview

John: In today's show, I'm going to give you eight great tips to help you prepare for your first job interview. Preparing for that first interview is a critical part of our non-traditional job search. You've narrowed your choice down to a single job at this point, you've convinced someone that you're qualified and now you've been set up to have an interview. This could be primarily in live interviews, generally in-person. Some of these pointers don't necessarily apply to an online interview. Remember that interviews can come in different sizes and shapes also, even live interviews.

There are individual interviews, there are group interviews, and each one is a little bit different. I personally am not a big fan of group interviews, but if you encounter them, then you're going to have to be ready to participate. Let's just go through my list of eight tips to prepare you for your first job interview. Some are going to be fairly straightforward and simple, and the other ones are going to require a fair amount of explanation.

The first one I want to get off my list right now is to bring a copy of your resume to every interview. Obviously, if you're attending a live interview, then you're going to need to bring those copies. Why? Because although many of the people that are interviewing you, if not all, will have received it ahead of time, sometimes they don't get the message. Sometimes they don't download it. They forget it. They come to the meeting, which is not in their office or something.

And so, it's always helpful to bring extra copies so that you appear to be prepared and it can trigger questions in the interviewers that you're going to be meeting. It's just basic, just bring a folder and a briefcase or something with papers where you can write down notes, if you need to, and also with extra copies of your resume. You might as well bring 10 or 20 because you just don't know how many people are going to ask for it. That's number one.

Number two, dress properly and present the right body language. This is all about appearance. Even though you're interviewing somewhere that is fairly informal, like some places out west. Everybody goes to work in their informal attire, but the thing is, you don't know who you're interviewing and you don't know ahead of time necessarily how formal the attire will be unless you've worked there before and you know the culture and you know the attitude of everybody there.

It doesn't hurt for you to be overdressed. Wear business clothing, and I would not even say business casual, but actual business. If you're a man and you want to wear a suit, that's awesome, with a tie generally. I guess you could think about taking the tie off if it seemed overly formal during the interviews. But you might be interviewing everybody from a manager or a coworker up to the CEO of the company or a board member, depending on what kind of job you're looking for. In general business, attire is in order.

I would say for the women as well, some type of a business suit. I wouldn't necessarily get too creative. I'd be a little bit subdued unless you're doing some kind of job that really requires you to demonstrate your creativity. But since we're not talking about applying for a job as an actress or something like that, then I think keep it simple and air on the side of formal attire, not black tie, just formal business attire.

The other thing is, remember your body language. I'm lumping these together, but all is about appearance. Looking people in the eyes when you're speaking with them, not crossing your arms, having a posture, and an appearance where you're open. Your arms are open. You're looking forward, maybe leaning forward a little bit during the interview so that it does not appear that you're closed lip and tight and nervous and that kind of thing. It's okay to be nervous. Everybody is nervous, but unless you've done a lot of interviews. So, don't worry about that, but try to have an open attitude and that makes people more comfortable with you and trust you a little bit more.

Now the third one is a big one that I'm going to spend some time on here, at least five minutes. And that is to do thorough research before the interview. When you go into the interview, you don't want the organization to be unknown to you. You don't want to learn the first thing about the organization during the interview process. It would be ridiculous to go in there and say, "Well, what exactly do you do here?"

The idea is that you're applying for this job because you have a pretty good understanding of the job based partly on the research, but partly just on the job description and maybe talking to the HR manager or the recruiter or something like that. You need to be prepared and be able to answer questions and demonstrate that in fact, the skills, attitudes, background that you have aligns with the things that are put in the job description.

One of the questions they're going to ask you most likely in almost every interview is why are you applying to this organization at this time? And so, the answer to that question should be prepared and it will have to do both with what you know about the organization and also what you know about yourself and how those two match up. Can you deliver what you think this organization needs?

You should know at some level, not that you can recite it right off the bat, but its mission, its vision, and its values. That's usually published in various locations, which I will talk about in a minute.

You need to understand the culture if you can. Now that takes a little more research and actually talking to people ahead of time that work at the company, but maybe you've already done that, maybe the way that you even first landed this interview was by having a connection at the company, someone who put in a good word for you, someone who may be pointed out your resume or gave the HR department an extra copy of the resume with an endorsement. So, you should learn what the culture is, if at all possible, ahead of time.

You should know something about the financials of the company. There are ways to figure this out, but if it's a publicly-traded organization, then you're going to be able to know whether it's growing or shrinking or stable, is it a cyclical organization or an industry that might be cyclical? Health care and let's say pharma companies and hospitals, they're not that cyclical. And sometimes they grow in countercyclical ways, for example. It wasn't unusual for our hospital to do better during a recession and to do worse during a growth phase in the economy. And there are lots of reasons why that might be. But you do not necessarily want to interview in a place that's on the brink of going bankrupt or is having such severe financial issues that they're likely to do a layoff in the near future. So, it's best to understand that ahead of time. And again, I'll talk to you about where you can find this information.

If you can, and it is a healthcare-related organization, which most of them should be, or could be, based on who you are. Obviously, you've got a background in healthcare, and even if you're working in a nonclinical or nontraditional job, it probably relates to something in healthcare again, whether it's a hospital health system, pharma, insurance company, or something like that. Even as a medical writer, that's probably not as big an issue as in those other areas.

Some of the ways that you can learn about these things is to number one, try and find the most recent annual report. It's not going to be that timely, but it's definitely going to have information that will be useful. And usually, they will talk about who the board members are, who the leadership is, who manages the company. And to some extent, the financials of course, and big initiatives going on or are planned for the future.

Just go online and do some searches and do some recent searches, just plug in the name of the company and see what comes up. When you're doing a Google search, you can look for news, you can look for other things. Just do a general search and see what's going on. You might as well look at any resources you have access to. If you read Kevin MD, go look up and see if there are any articles about the company, or if it's been mentioned. You can look in Doximity. Sometimes there are articles there that talk about certain industries, and those are based on the physician's perspective.

I definitely recommend you use guidestar.org. It's a site that publishes all of the IRS 990s for any nonprofit organization. So, that won't apply to a for-profit pharma company or insurance company, but it will apply to many hospitals, hospices, health systems, and other nonprofit healthcare organizations. And then you definitely want to see if there's any kind of history of mergers and acquisitions as you're doing this research that can tell you if I have a local hospital here that's not more than 20 minutes from my house that has been part of four or five different systems, in the last five or six years, maybe 10 years, I guess.

That's not a real stable situation and it makes it difficult because what happens in those mergers and acquisitions is let's say you're applying for a job as a chief medical officer. Well, now you're the chief medical officer, and then they have a cutback. Their finances are not great, they've merged. So now you're going to have a regional CMO and they're going to let the local CMO go. And then you're going to find out that your regional CMO, maybe this is a job you're applying for. You're actually covering for three different hospitals, all of which are at least 45 minutes apart. So, it's a different lifestyle. It's a different job than being let's say a dedicated CMO at an individual organization. And this applies the same in other non-hospital organizations as well.

If you're looking at joining a hospital or health system, then one of the things you should do is go to www.medicare.gov/care-compare. This is basically a hospital comparison. There are similar sites like hospice compare, nursing home compare, where they really look and publish the quality based on their treatment of the Medicare patients. Another resource that you should do the research on.

I had someone lately who told me that she went to her interview for a clinical job and she asked them questions and I had asked her to delve into a little bit, and that had to do with the quality. And when they asked her about why she wanted to be at that organization, she said, "Well, I'm looking to work for a high-quality organization that does X, Y, and Z. And I know from looking at your reports on hospital compare that your hospital is the best in this region, of which was a pretty large area".

They were impressed and she apparently got points for that. She ended up being offered the job that very day. When you know the company, when you understand the company, and when you have intelligent questions about the company that you're applying to, all of which depend on doing your research, then you are going to come out of the interview much better. I think that's enough for doing your research at number three.

Let's go to number four. Be prepared to clarify your selling points. I'm going in this interview and I'm going to make sure that I point out this and that aspect of my job in the past, my education, my experience. Be prepared to answer a question and write these out and practice. Why are you good for this organization? Why do you think you're a good fit for this organization? Be prepared to answer that question.

What are your skills and abilities and background and training that enables you to solve a problem that we're trying to solve in this organization? Why do you think you'll fit in? How do your skills help meet our goals? Are there accomplishments that you have that you can point to that demonstrates those skills?

It's one thing to say that "Well, I'm always on time and I have a really good knowledge of managing medications, or I have a lot of experience with quality improvement or length of stay, reducing complications", things of that sort. Or "I have a lot of experience with leadership and management".

You really need to be specific. Those are the types of things that should already be on your resume, but be prepared to answer those questions. "Well, give us an example". - We had this issue when I was chief medical officer, where we really had two or three very disruptive physicians on our staff and these weren't just people that had some personality quirks. They were really dangerous in some ways because they were difficult to work with. And it got to the point where the nursing staff wouldn't call them, wouldn't engage with them because they were afraid they were going to be yelled at constantly.

And so, I led a team that put in place a program to identify and deal with the dysfunctional physicians on our staff. It was one that over a period of a year or two, really helped solve that problem, reduced the episodes that were leading to nurses avoiding these physicians, and improving the outcomes in the end, in terms of response times to phone calls and things like that.

So, if you can give a concrete example, if that example can also have data in it, in terms of there were 20 incident reports the year before, and then later there are only three. Those things go a long way. So, you might want to talk mostly about how you're going to help them. It's okay to talk about how you're aligning with this organization and working for this organization. It will meet your goals. That's fine too because you want your goals to align.

You can get a little more specific about why exactly you want this particular job. In particular, we're talking non clinically here. People want to know why you're leaving medicine. And that can be a tricky question because you don't want to seem overly negative. You don't want to be running away from something. You wouldn't say, "Well, I'm severely burned out. I hate my job and I just have to try something else".

The company that you're applying to, and during this interview, you have to demonstrate that you are going towards them. That it's a positive choice you're making because of the attributes of the company and the opportunities that it's going to present to you and for you to help them with, not that you're running from something which usually doesn't lead to a permanent or a long-term relationship. Again, come up and practice stories about when you showed teamwork, initiative, making a difficult decision, solving a challenging problem, and those who go a long way. And they need to be customized to each particular industry in each particular job interview.

Some people are trying different things and they might go on an interview in a pharma company on one hand and then a few weeks later go for an interview for a utilization management job. That happens. Some people are trying to try different things and see how the interviews go. But you have to customize your responses to those two, obviously.

Number five, have your questions for the interviewers lined up, or at least some questions. Be prepared because you should spend most of the time listening during this interview and then asking direct questions, and not that you should be very brief during your answers, but to fully answer their questions. But at the same time, there are going to be plenty of opportunities to ask questions of the company and the people that are interviewing you.

Things that come to my mind, depending on the job, again, are what are the big strategic initiatives going on this year? What is the major focus of the organization right now? Is there one? Somebody might say, "Well, we're just doing what we always do, which is bring meds to the market and market them". But there may be some big strategic initiatives going on.

You can even ask questions like what characteristics do you feel are the most essential for this role that I'm applying for in your opinion? And then you may be able to respond and give examples to that interviewer about why you align with that and are compatible with that. But that also gives you an ability to go in and be proactive and address those things with other interviewers, even before they've asked the question and then you'll be pretty proactive in terms of their impression of you and in this interview process.

At some point you need to ask people why they like working there? How long have they been there? What do you like about the job? You'll get some good information. You can write these questions down and have them ready. It doesn't hurt to say, "Hey I had a few questions I wanted to get answered. Let me look at my notes". That's fine. But if you can get at least four or five, six questions, and remember, you can ask these questions, different types of questions from different interviewers.

Like someone who's let's say going to be a peer. You might ask other questions than someone who's going to be your immediate supervisor versus someone who is the CEO, the CFO, or the COO of the company that you're applying to if you interview with those people.

One thing I didn't mention, I guess I would say here just as an aside, is that in some organizations, in some industries, you're going to be asked to do a presentation. I think this is more common in pharma jobs. If you look at pharma, a lot of the jobs in pharma, they're really academic positions besides MDs and Dos. There are PhDs and PharmDs. And there's a lot of well-educated people.

There's a lot of times in different jobs in pharma where you're doing a presentation. And so, they may ask you to do a presentation. They may tell you ahead of time to be prepared, or maybe they'll just spring it on you while you're there. But think about it if you were going to pick a topic, or in the pharma situation a particular drug or drug class you want to talk about. Just have those ideas in your head, write an outline ahead of time, go through it a few times at home, and then be prepared when you get there.

Now, number six is to start with a positive statement and stay positive. Never complain, never go negative. I think I alluded to this a little bit earlier with the body language and so forth, but when you're interviewing, everything needs to be from that perspective. You don't want to fall in the trap, even if they ask you why you left your current job, what's going on, you need to frame it in a way that's more focused on the positive aspects.

Like I've been there for a long time. It seemed like I was stagnating, the company wasn't using all of my skills and I've done some additional certifications and different training. Or I was in clinical medicine and I made a decision that I wanted to leave clinical. I'd done that long enough and I wanted to try and express some other interests that I have, and I've taken some classes to learn new things. I'm really more interested in management and leadership or I'm really interested in drug development and bringing new drugs to the market because I think I can help a lot more people doing something like that. But always positive.

Never get into a description of how nasty your boss was, how you couldn't get along. Nobody understood you. There's no point in criticizing your old employer or current employer, because to someone hearing that just feels that you're going to turn around and do the same thing to them if things don't work out. In reality things just sometimes don't work out. And if the other company culturally was not a good fit or had some negative attitudes, maybe they're more focused on the bottom line or whatever it might be, that's fine. It's good to learn that and to move on to a company that more aligns with your vision and your passions.

You want to have a lot of energy. You want to start by expressing thanks and appreciation for the interviewer's time. It seems a little odd, perhaps because that's why you were asked to come, but it does take time to do an interview and it's disruptive. It's not something most of us do on a regular basis. We have to actually change our schedule, fit in an interviewee for 30 minutes or 60 minutes or whatever it may be. And so, it's good to be appreciated by the interviewee when they come in and it sets a positive tone.

The other thing is you might start with a very positive comment about the organization. "I've been really looking forward to this. I've read about your company. I hear the quality is really good. The turnover in the employees is really low," or "I hear you have this new initiative going on," or "I hear you've been growing and I'd really like to be a part of an organization like that." Those are some ideas. Positive, positive, positive, and be prepared to engage right off the bat with each person that's interviewing you.

Now you should be assertive, but not pushy. You're not there to have, let's say a laundry list of 20 or 30 questions to just go through and check the box on. You need to be interactive. You need to give your interviewers time to ask their questions, give thoughtful responses, and don't hurry yourself. Don't be pushy. You can be proactive about the stories, about your initiative, but leave plenty of time for them to get their questions answered. Be a little patient. And if there's a lull in the conversation, then feel free to jump in and highlight one of your strong points that maybe they haven't heard about.

Now, number eight, the final tip. And believe me, there are a lot more tips and I'll probably have to do a follow-up to this sometime in the future. But there are a lot more things that go into preparing for and performing well during your interview. Some specific tips to doing group versus one on one and other tips may be specific to your screening interview, which might be on the telephone over a Zoom call.

But for now, I'm going to end with tip number eight, and that is close with clarity. I've had people come back after an interview and tell me, "Well, I'm not really sure when they're going to get back to me, I'm not sure if I was supposed to call them or not". What I mean here is, at the end of the day, with the last person, usually it's going to be someone who's been helping to take you from interview to interview or coordinating the whole process.

And so, there should be some closing. You should say, "Look, I really enjoyed interviewing today. I really liked all the people that I met. I feel I can be a very strong contributor to this team. I'm just curious when do you think you'll be getting back to me? And if I haven't heard from you within three or four days, would it be okay if I call you at this number? And make sure you've got their number so that you don't go home and think, "Oh, let's see now. When was I going to hear and how do I know? Are they going to interview more people?"

I wouldn't necessarily ask how many more people are being interviewed, but you might ask when the process is expected to be closed and when the decision will be made and an offer made. And so again, once you get beyond that point, you're justified in calling and confirming. Obviously, they should call and tell you that you're not being considered or that you are a very good candidate, but there are so many other good candidates that they decided to go with someone else.

It also wouldn't hurt to ask at that point, if that happens, about things that you could do better during the interview process, or maybe make that a separate call. But my main point here is to close with clarity, your expectations, their expectations, and what the next steps are.

So, that's it. Those are my eight great tips to prepare for your first job interview. That'll get you pretty much through your interview. There are other things we might talk about in the future, but I think most of them fall into those eight areas. That's it for today. If you get to the point of an interview, you're almost there. Don't expect perfection in the first few interviews, we all get better with practice. The only way you're going to practice is if you're not necessarily getting that job on the first interview.

Again, I consider going back and talking to one or two of the people if you don't get the interview, just to find out why. Not so much because of your performance, but maybe the experience that you have didn't quite fit, and there might be a way for you to gain more experience that would make you a better fit the next time at the next company.

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Disclaimers:

Many of the links that I refer you to are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you.

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post 8 Great Tips to Help You Prepare for Your First Job Interview – 223 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

I recently joined Michelle Mudge Riley on her free webinar to talk about mistakes that will derail a job search. We listed the major ones that we have witnessed. And we took questions from the audience.

I have narrowed down my list to EIGHT big mistakes that will derail a job search. I’ll go through each one, and provide examples where I can. I’ve seen all of these and made a few of these mistakes myself.

The Mistakes That Will Derail a Job Search.

#1 – Tunnel vision and not keeping an open mind

• Regarding possible jobs
• About how you will find a job
• About your capabilities and transferable skills

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#2 – Being intimidated by a job description

• Many of us have landed jobs even though we don’t meet the written “requirements”
• Many qualifications are “nice to have” not “must-haves”

#3 – Preparing a CV rather than a resume

• Might be OK for an academic position
• Understand the difference
• Focus on the summary with keywords
• Emphasize accomplishments with measurable outcomes

#4 – Using the same cover letter and resume for different jobs or different industries

• Example: “leadership role in the health insurance or pharma industry” is not appropriate
• Each employer has its own needs, even for the “same” position
• Customize resume and cover letter with unique experiences and skills for each potential employer

#5 – Depending too much on online applications and not leveraging networks

• One of my guests found herself suddenly anxious to leave her clinical job; she reached out to former classmates and one of them informed her of a job as a life insurance medical director, she applied and landed the job, and loves it 10 years later
• Networking is a foreign concept to physicians and many of us are competitive introverts
• Networking is reconnecting with old medical school classmates and former co-residents directly, or with Doximity or LinkedIn

#6 – Not learning the jargon of the field we’re pursuing

• hospital management, pharma positions, and every nonclinical job uses its own jargon
• use in the cover letter, resume, and interviews

#7 – Not taking the interview seriously

• Failure to bring copies of your resume, dress properly, arrive early, listen more than you talk, or ask enough questions

#8 – Not preparing sufficiently

• Not understanding the job posting
• Not doing enough research on the position or on the organization
• Failing to check out financial reports, stock reports, Guidestar, Google, rating agencies

There are important issues at each step. But don’t get overwhelmed.

BONUS Mistakes to AVOID:

#1 – Failure to prepare a COMPLETE LinkedIn Profile is another mistake that will derail a job search.

#2 – After the interview but before accepting the offer; do your own personal investigation into the employer to see if it will be a good fit, with

• Other employees
• Customers
• Physicians
• Check for physician leadership if appropriate
• Most of us don’t make or accept a marriage proposal after one or two dates – those that do are often disappointed – the same thing applies to most jobs – you’ll be married to this new employer potentially for decades – before accepting the offer do even MORE research – walk the halls if you can – speak to nurses if it is a hospital position – talk to future coworkers, etc.

Summary

Now go get that new job! And remember that we all make mistakes, so violating one or two of the above suggestions is not the end of the world. But by learning as you go and correcting the above errors, you will optimize your chances of landing that new job.

Before I go, I have a couple of books to recommend. These are books written by previous guests.

First – Andrew Wilner just released the audiobook version of his book The Locum Life. And he narrates it himself. Let’s show our support by going to andrewwilner.com and clicking the link that says Audible Book Now Available. I think it’s a cranberry-colored link. It is the definitive book on how to take on locums work and AVOID all of the potential landmines along the way.

Next – Mandy Armitage just released her new book. We will be discussing the book and her publishing journey next week. But, I believe you can get the book now if you are thinking about a career in medical writing. It is called From Clinical Practice to Medical Writing: A Career Transition Guide. And you can get a copy by going to ArmitageMedicalWriting.com and click the BOOK tab at the top of her home page. [Neither of these is affiliate links.]

Links for Today's Episode:

• Your Resume Is the Passport to That Desirable Job – 157
• How to Be a Remarkable Resume Writer – 136
• Follow These Steps to Create an Awesome LinkedIn Profile – 009
• Top Reasons to Use LinkedIn – 008

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Disclaimers:

Many of the links that I refer you to, and that you’ll find in the show notes, are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you, that I have personally used or am very familiar with.

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post 8 Common Mistakes That Will Derail a Job Search – 180 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.