In this week's podcast episode, Dr. David Yeh explains how a simple monthly adjustment can secure your investment portfolio.

David is a practicing physician, speaker, author, investment advisor, and founder of The Wealthy Doctor Institute. He is also a Registered Investment Advisor.

He is an alumnus of Cornell University and New York University School of Medicine. Following medical school, he completed residencies in radiology at SUNY Stoney Brook University Hospital and Nuclear Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania Health System. And he is board-certified in Radiology and Nuclear Medicine.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career you love. To learn more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

For Podcast Listeners

• John hosts a short weekly Q&A session on topics related to physicians' careers and leadership. Each discussion is posted for you to review and apply. Sometimes all it takes is one insight to take you to the next level of your career. Check out the Weekly Q&A and join us for only $5.00 monthly.
• If you want access to dozens of lessons dedicated to nonclinical and unconventional clinical careers, you should join the Nonclinical Career Academy MemberClub. For a small monthly fee, you can access the Weekly Q&A Sessions AND as many lessons and courses as you wish. Click the link to check it out, and use the Coupon Code “FIRSTMONTHFIVE” to get your first month for only $5.00.
• The 2024 Nonclinical Summit is over. But you can access all the fantastic lectures from our nationally recognized speakers, including Dr. Dike Drummond, Dr. Nneka Unachukwu, Dr. Gretchen Green, and Dr. Mike Woo-Ming. Go to Nonclinical Summit and enter Coupon Code “30-OFF” for a $30 discount.

Invest Wisely and Secure Your Investment Portfolio

After discussing David's background, he quickly describes the basic principles we should apply to long-term investing. The most basic way to invest wisely is to adopt an approach that limits losses.

Having a plan, even a simple one-rule plan such as dollar-cost averaging, gives you an edge over investors who have no plan. – Dr. David Yeh

According to David's analysis, the best outcomes come from following a plan, reviewing your portfolio, and applying adjustments monthly. Focusing only on trying to identify winning investments does not work.

Writing His Book

David explains the process he used for writing and publishing his book, The Busy Doctor's Investment Guide. With the assistance of his publisher, Advantage Media Group, he was able to capture his idea and complete the book quickly. Its staff helped him to organize the content and teach readers how to invest wisely.

The book is clearly written and highlights several loss-mitigation strategies to help you secure your investment portfolio. It also covers the basic principles that every investor should know. One chapter is devoted to investor psychology.

Preparing for a Career Pivot

David recommends focusing on the basics when preparing for a career pivot. There will likely be a temporary reduction in or loss of income at some point. So, it's best to be debt-free. And you should have a sufficient emergency fund and capital for living expenses, based on the projected time needed to complete your pivot.

If starting a new business, a business plan and financial projections must be prepared. You should double the estimated time to break-even and expenses during the first year. An overly optimistic business plan has sunk many small businesses.

Wealthy Doctor Institute

Today, David still practices part-time radiology. He considers himself semi-retired from clinical practice. He also runs his business, Wealthy Doctor Institute, and manages an investment fund. His philosophy is to be a coach to his clients and to be transparent in how funds are invested.

Summary

Dr. David Yeh successfully balances two careers: medicine and investing. In this week's interesting interview, we learn how he accomplished it. And we've identified a resource that you may use to help you secure your investment portfolio.

Links for Today's Episode:

• The Busy Doctor's Investment Guide
• Wealthy Doctor Institute
• Wealthy Doctor Institute Facebook Group
• Dr. David Yeh's LinkedIn Profile
• Weekly Nonclinical Career Q&A Recordings 
• Purchase Your All Action Pass Videos and Bonuses from the 2024 Summit (Use Coupon Code 30-OFF)

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The post How One Monthly Adjustment Will Secure Your Investment Portfolio – A PNC Classic from 2020 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

This week, we revisit Dr. Ronnie Shalev as she explains how to use real estate investing to find financial freedom in this week's interview from early 2022. 

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

How to Use Real Estate Investing

However, after spending years learning about alternatives to clinical practice, she found a way to deploy her earnings to create a passive income stream. Through passive real estate investing, she was able to quit her grueling emergency room job and move into a less-demanding role at a medical device company.

Ronnie has devoted the past few years to investing in syndications, in which investors pool their resources to purchase apartments. When done properly, this approach can provide the following benefits:

• cash flow
• appreciation in value
• tax benefits
• diversification
• capital preservation

Finding Balance

Ronnie was able to leave emergency medicine and overcome burnout. She found balance by working in the medical device industry while investing in passive real estate.

Now, she helps frustrated physicians who feel trapped to earn income with passive real estate investments. She teaches others about real estate and provides real estate investment opportunities through her company, Shalwin Properties.

Summary

Dr. Ronnie Shalev was able to escape her “golden handcuffs” by investing in passive real estate. Over time, the income from real estate enabled her to find a more fulfilling job and eliminate her burnout. Now she has created a new business to help other physicians do the same thing.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Shalwin Properties
• Dr. Ronnie Shalev's LinkedIn Page
• NewScr!pt

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 307

How to Use Real Estate Investing to Go from Burnout to Financial Freedom

John: Let's hear about Dr. Shalev's transformation. Dr. Ronnie Shalev, welcome.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Thank you so much, John. I am so honored to be here. I'm an avid listener of your podcast. It has helped me for many years. Before I was ready to jump ship and leave clinical practice I listened to many episodes and I don't know if you remember, but we had a nice offline conversation where you mentored me about whether I should go into business school or get a master's degree. And so, you've really been an integral part of my career transition. I'm really, really excited to be here.

John: Well, that is very nice of you to say. I appreciate that, but I do love seeing people that maybe I've run across over the years and where they were struggling. And then two, three years down the road, they've made some changes. They've learned some new things. Maybe they've taken a course. Maybe they've gotten a degree. It doesn't really matter, but they've made changes that have made their lives more balanced and more enjoyable, I guess, is the bottom line. So, I'm really happy and I would say I'm proud of you for having gone through that. You seem to be very happy with what you're doing now, and that's what we're going to learn about today.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: I am very happy. I'm excited to be here.

John: All right. I do a separate intro in most of these, and I will be giving you listeners some background on Ronnie. But why don't you give us the thumbnail in terms of your background, your clinical career, maybe even where you went to med school and so forth, and bring us up to where you are now?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Sure. Ever since I was a little girl, I knew I wanted to be a doctor. It was like, "What are you going to be? - A doctor." My father is a physician and for many years tried to dissuade me. "You're not going to like it. You shouldn't do it. You won't have a personal life. You won't have kids. You'll never get married." Whatever he could throw at me, I blocked and I was not able to be dissuaded. I was going to be a doctor no matter what. And that determination carried me through high school, through college, and to medical school, I got into medical school. I went to Texas Tech, in Lubbock, and in El Paso.

And suddenly I was at a crossroads, like, "Okay, I'm a doctor now. I did it. Now what?" Then it was really a hard choice that I never even considered. Like "What kind of doctor are you going to be?" And after really going through the pros and cons of the different fields I decided to go with, well, I like procedures, I want flexibility in my life. Everything that my dad had thrown at me to dissuade me was like, "Okay, it's not going to apply. I'm going to find a career that gives me the flexibility, the time, the money to have the freedom to be a doctor, and also be a mom and also have a family and everything."

So, I chose emergency medicine, and I went on to a residency in Philadelphia, at Drexel University, studying with really the father of emergency medicine and really great attendings and had a great education that came out of there. Fired up, ready to take on the world.

I moved to the Bronx and I worked in a hybrid hospital where I was in a community setting, but I also had academic responsibilities. I was working with residents. I was the residency site director. I was doing grand rounds in teaching and doing bedside teaching and lecturing and things like that.

And after two years, I really started feeling a lot of early symptoms of burnout. Only two years there. And I thought, "Oh, it must be living in New York. It must be working with residents." I didn't know what it was, but I ran, and I moved back to Dallas where I grew up. I was like, "Okay, I'm going to be with my family. I'm going to be in a city that I like, where it'll be like coming home. And I'm just going to be a straight-up community ER doctor."

And 12 years I worked in the ER here in various settings, high trauma centers, high volume, low volume, free-standing emergency rooms. And really that burnout never went away. I kept on saying, "Well, maybe it's the patient population. Maybe it's the administration. Maybe it's this hospital versus this hospital. Maybe the shifts are too stressful." I really just tried it all. And then I started fantasizing, maybe I need to open up a restaurant.

John: Oh, no. That's a big jump.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Maybe I should open up a car wash. I started looking into that really heavily, like, "Okay, I just want to do a mindless job."

John: Let me jump in there before you finish up with where you are today. First of all, when you talk about knowing the grandfather of emergency medicine, I had forgotten that emergency medicine is actually a relatively young specialty. When I was finishing my family medicine residency, I think they were just the first one or two full-blown ER residencies. That was a long time ago.

The other thing, when you're talking it seems like, "Okay, I have shift work. I can do eight hours. I can do 12 hours and do those three days a week. That should be fine. I can make money and I should be able to unwind." But I'm telling you, it just blows my mind that hospitalists and ER docs I hear so often from are just super burned out. And I don't know if it's just because of the way medicine is paid for by CMS, mostly in the hospital setting and other insurers, but just there's high volume. I would think it'd be great to be a hospitalist or an ER doc, if you didn't have to try and squeeze in six patients an hour, half of whom are critically ill. I guess that's part of it from what I know.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah, definitely. I felt like I was being treated like a commodity. I was being traded. Resources were taken away from me every single year. Every single year I got a pay cut. Every single year they told me I had less support, fewer nurses, fewer scribes. Went downtown from the zero scribes, I would have less physician hour coverage. They even took away my mid-level assistance. It was just the way that the administration burdens you and you're just pushed and pushed and pushed. And if you don't break, they push you further.

John: Yeah. It really irritates me when they talk about, "Well, what we need to do is teach physicians how to be more resilient." It's like, no, you need to cut their hours back and give them time to document and not burn them out. It has nothing to do with resilience. Physicians are already super-resilient to begin with.

But tell me what are you doing today as you sit here and just briefly what you're doing, and then we'll come back and find out how that evolved. And we're going to focus on just one of the fields that you're working in right now. But give us a quick snapshot of where you are now.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah. Ultimately, I left clinical medicine. I actually have two parallel careers. In one of them, I'm the director of post-market surveillance of a medical device company, where I run five teams of engineers and another team for revenue cycle. And so, I have about 120 people under me. That's one of my careers. The second one is I'm a real estate investor. I focus on workforce housing and apartments syndications.

John: Okay. The second one is what we're going to focus on today because in our offline conversation beforehand, it seemed like you were telling me that it was really the real estate and the ability to generate some income while not having a huge demand on time, that actually allows you the flexibility to do the other things and still maintain. Tell me about that. How did you come to this combination of careers and what are the pros and cons of doing it the way you're doing it?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: What I'd like to say is that there is no right way. There's no wrong way. There's just a way. I had a barrier because I was the primary breadwinner and I had these golden handcuffs. I made a lot of money, and every career choice that I looked at was a 50% pay cut. I said, "Okay, well, maybe I can start working and doing things simultaneously, doing two careers at once. I'll work nights, I'll work weekends. It'll still bring in that income, but then I'll work in the other job."

And what I came to realize is that I need to figure out a way to work when I'm not at work. Make money when I'm sleeping. How do you make recurring income that you're not actually doing something directly for it or where you're not trading your time for money?

That's where I started investing in real estate and was able to generate enough recurring income that I had the freedom to look at other job opportunities, other careers that I hadn't considered before because of that salary barrier that had existed prior. I did get a lot of freedom by getting recurring income that I wasn't trading my time for money.

John: And it's not that this passive income, which I'm assuming does require some upfront work. It doesn't just happen spontaneously. Maybe you can tell us about that, but I take it that you just need to earn enough doing that passive to give you that flexibility, that the other job may not pay as much. It's enough combined to maintain your standard of living.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah. I would agree with that. When you're a doctor, there's a lot of upfront work. You're going to medical school, college, residency, but then you continue to work. With investing in real estate, there's upfront work. You have to learn what are the investing options and classes of apartments or whatever classes of real estate and what you want to do. But then you do it and then you can just sit back. So, you do the work and it doesn't continue. There is work. There's always work to learn something. Nothing's 100% passive, but it doesn't require a lot of time after you've done the initial investment.

John: All right. Stage one, if I put it in perspective, is you're clinically working and you're noticing that things aren't going well, you're not that happy. You might become burned out. You've maybe tried some shifts moving around doing different things. And it's still not getting better and then it's like, "Okay. One of the things I've got to do is put some of this cash aside because I'm going to need it to generate some passive income and the future might be with real estate."

Now tell us about the real estate side. There are at least 10 different ways of investing in real estate from just buying it on stocks that hold investments to flipping a house to everything in between. How did you choose what you're doing? Tell us a little bit about the options that you looked at and why you decide to do what you're actually doing now.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Initially I was saying that I don't have the time to be flipping houses, to do house hacking. I didn't want a house hack. With house hacking, you have to rent out your rooms in your own house. I didn't want anybody living with me. I didn't want to live next to a tenant. There are a lot of ways that you can buy a duplex on one side and rent out the other side. And I didn't want to live next to my tenants. If they're not paying rent or they're being loud. I just didn't want that life. And I didn't want to be renovating. I didn't have the time. I'm a mom, I'm an ER doctor.

I was looking at really fewer hands-on options. And the most hands-off option is commercial real estate, and specifically syndications. There are a lot of other options you can do, like turnkey investments and things like that, but I wanted a large scale. I started investing in commercial real estate through syndications. I really didn't know much about which asset class. I invested in all of them. I did self-storage. I've done retail centers. I did a standalone building. I've done industrial, I've done RV parks, I've done assisted living.

And ultimately, I got involved with apartments because I felt like they were more stable than the rest of the asset classes. I really fell in love with the stability of it. I think after so much risk with the stock market or my portfolio swings so many ways, I was just desperate to get out of medicine and I didn't want to risk losing any money. I felt like apartments were the most stable of the assets that I tried. That's where I've focused most of my portfolio. We sold a lot of our stocks, a lot of my retirement and put it all in apartments. And with that recurring income, I was able to really step away from clinical practice.

John: Okay. Now that brings up a question that's applicable to me. That is that most of my retirement money, and I'm a lot closer to retirement than you are, is in an IRA or some kind of tax-deferred thing. Just as an aside, can you buy those syndicates or get involved or buy the apartments or get the syndicates within the tax-deferred account? Or do you have to pull the money out, pay the taxes on it and then invest it in the apartment?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah. That's a great question. Actually, there are special accounts where you can invest your retirement accounts and alternative assets. You can buy Bitcoin and silver and gold, and you can do real estate. You need a special account. And I have an EQRP, but it's like a self-directed 401(k) and there are special accounts that you need in order to do that. But it's definitely possible.

John: So if you're interested in this and you're not using, let's say, already tax money that you put aside, then you should just basically talk to wherever you have your IRAs or those tax-deferred accounts. And there should be an expert there, obviously, that can explain how that can be done and that sort of thing.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah, absolutely.

John: What is a syndication? A syndicate? It doesn't have anything to do with the mob, I take it.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: It's such a scary word, isn't it? Syndication. No one knows what that really is, but it's really about partnerships and teams. And it is basically investors that pool their money together to buy a large asset. And there's a lot of people that do that kind of partnership and they buy hospitals, they buy surgical centers, they buy freestanding emergency rooms. I'm involved in a syndication for a free-standing emergency room.

You basically buy shares of an entity, which is a pre-existing business. A syndication is when you're buying commercial real estate that's $30 million, $100 million, whatever it is. And you can't just buy that by yourself. You make a partnership with basically 50 to 100 people, and you all buy it together.

John: Okay. Were those ER facilities, freestanding, are those in Texas?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yes.

John: There are not many states that let people create these large networks of ER. In Illinois, it would never pass. You have a certificate of need. They don't exist at all. Interesting. Because I talked to a guest who was in Texas, who was actually a CEO for a company that opens those kinds of facilities. So, I thought it might be in Texas. All right, I'm digressing.

Now the thing is to me, somebody's got to manage the whole thing. And a lot of it's based on their experience, based on their integrity, do they know what they're doing? Can they be trusted? How do you sort through all that?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah, that's a great question. Really there's the active team, which are the sponsors, and then there are the limited partners that are not the active ones. And you really do need to vet your sponsors, the sponsorship team, and look at what's their track record. Talking to people that have invested with them, even Googling them, seeing what their portfolios have done, seeing what is their track record, what kind of returns are they getting for their investors.

I started really investing with so many different syndicators, in so many different groups that I learned what I liked and what I didn't. I like that some of them are automated. Some of them are sending checks. Some of them are wiring money. There are different things that I prefer. And that's just going to be more convenient for me. The rate of communication that they have with their investors, how responsive are they. I think all of that is important. Basically, I've done so much passive work that I decided I want to offer this to other people and I learned how to be an active syndicator. So, I'm a sponsor now. I've taken mentorship and conferences and seminars and basically, now I can do all the things that I wanted in my sponsorship. I can do that for my investors.

John: Okay. What does that look like? Being active, you have to recruit investors, you have to do some marketing, I take it. Is that complicated?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yes. I didn't learn any marketing in medical school. But it's really fun. You're meeting a lot of different people. You don't have to do it all yourself. And this is where I'm really leveraging teams. I'm partnering with different groups and we're splitting up the work. They might do acquisitions and banking. I might do the investor relations and the capital raise. I might go do the due diligence. I might help with the renovations, whatever it is at the time you have the flexibility, as long as you're working with a great team, then you can choose what you want to do and it's okay to learn. It's okay to be uncomfortable. I learned to ease that discomfort.

John: Now, we didn't talk about this beforehand, but you have a website. Of course, we talked about that, but that has something that people can download if they're interested in learning more about this whole process, is that right?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yes.

John: Okay. Because it says several reasons why multifamily investing makes sense. So, let's mention the website. shalwinproperties.com is the website. Although I think you're going to be sending people to something with a similar name. So, tell me about that.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah. It's going to be invest.shalwinproperties.com.

John: Okay. And what will the listeners find when they go there?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: They're going to get really a video of pretty much consecutive webinars, mini webinars that teach you about real estate and why real estate and why apartments and why syndications? And what kind of returns are you expecting? And what is the terminology? And why really apartment investing is a great hedge against inflation. I have a lot of good content there. It's short, really digestible, educational materials.

John: Excellent. Listeners, it should be live. This is probably going to be posted three or four weeks from when we're recording it. I'm giving Ronnie enough time to get this done here since she's made that commitment. But it's invest.shalwinproperties.com. I'll put that in the show notes.

I guess I do have a question. I'm actually buying a house right as we speak, which is weird, and also selling a house and buying another house, not for investment purposes, but downsizing, and then getting a place in Scottsdale, which is a lot warmer than the Chicago area, which is miserable in the winter. And so, I'm really concerned about interest rates and loans. And luckily the loan rates are still quite low. So that helped me in buying the house in Scottsdale, but inflation and all that.

To me, we still have a shortage of homes I think, in this country, which drives a lot more people into renting. And I don't see that changing even if inflation comes and causes some kind of issue. Explain in your way, again, this is not investment advice per se. We're not doing that, but I'm just trying to understand your perspective on, like you said, why would apartment investing and doing a syndicate in that be pretty safe and good in an environment where maybe we're going to have some inflation growing for a while?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah, absolutely. I love apartments for many reasons, but one of them is that there is a high demand for apartments. Single-family home prices are going so high that people can't afford to buy their own homes, which is forcing them to be runners. Then there's the population that chooses to be renters. There are millennials that don't want the headaches of owning a home. They don't want toilet leaks and plumbing issues and roof leaks, and they don't want the headaches. They just want a nice place to live and just to pay rent. They're the ones that are choosing to rent. There are also the seniors. Seniors also might need the money. They might not want the headaches. They might want to change of scenery or whatever it is, they're choosing to rent.

So, there's a lot of demand. And right now, the building material and the building costs are so high, especially because of inflation, that things are not getting built. It's what the inventory is right now, which is creating a higher demand. You're building that and you're building that. And so, I'm in an asset where my occupancy rates are going to go up. And when there's so much demand, my rents are going to go up. We're seeing rents jump up right now in Dallas like 9%. In other markets, like 12%.

I have a deal in Las Vegas and the rents there are jumping 12% over the last year. Because there are so many people moving to different areas and there are just not enough places for them to live, the rents are shooting up, which is great because that actually translates into an increase in value.

There are a lot of sales going on right now. With interest rates being so low, and rents going up, it's causing a lot of trading of these properties. People are selling and buying larger properties or selling and buying nicer properties or younger properties or whatever it is that they're doing. So, there's a lot of movement within the apartment world right now. As the rents go up, the value goes up and it basically helps you just like the dollar is losing value through inflation. If the rents keep going up, you're not losing money because you're investing in a property that's going up in value.

John: Yeah. And I take it from what I've read in the past that when you go into a deal with certain parameters and if something changes such that the rents can be raised, that's just gravy there, right? You can usually go into it saying, okay, it's going to be 3% or 4% per year, maybe for the next three to five years, but lo and behold, no, the market for houses has gone crazy. Therefore, secondarily, the apartments are being snapped up quickly and the rents are going up. That's just a positive for everybody. At least from the investment standpoint, not from the renter.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Absolutely. Not from the renter's perspective, but from the investor's perspective, the rents go up. But part of the business plan in a lot of these deals is doing something called forced appreciation, where you're renovating the properties and making them nicer and raising the rents. If you can raise the rents and not do that, that's even better for the bottom line. But you basically mitigate, it'll go up with the renovations and then with market trends, with the organic rent growth. And if you're in a market that's hot like Dallas or Vegas or Arizona, Phoenix, those markets are just exploding. They're in high demand for sure.

John: Well, I know from just the housing market in Phoenix, Scottsdale, they've had two years in a row of double-digit increases in home prices. It's just unreal. It's crazy. People are like, I can't buy a home there. They've gone up $200,000 in a few years. Wow. So that then also translates into the entire real estate, I'm assuming.

The other reason I'm concerned, and this is a little hint for those who want to start a podcast, if you have a question and you're looking to do some research, just start a podcast and get a guest like Ronnie on, and then you can pick a brain for free.

Pretty much my retirements are in stocks and some bonds. And I would like to be a little more diversified and I'm afraid we've had basically double-digit stock market increases in the last two years and that never goes on forever. It always comes down. I think that's why many of us are thinking we should try and diversify if we're not already.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Oh yeah, for sure. My portfolio is heavily in biotech. And it is way down. Currently, whatever I have left is trapped until there's a turnaround, which is exactly the opposite of what I want.

John: Right. You don't want that. All right. Well, this has been very interesting. Listeners, again, invest.shalwinproperties.com. Sounds like we can learn a lot just by going through the videos. Now, I'm sure it's going to be a sales pitch involved with that, but again, why not work with a physician that have some level of integrity that we can at least be assured of? And so, that's good.

I just want to go back to the original beginning of this whole thing about being burnt out and stressed out and crushing your soul and that sort of thing in working in medical situations. Tell me if you have any advice for people that are just finding themselves, physicians that are in that position now. Maybe some words of advice and encouragement.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah. I think the biggest thing is that you have a lot of options. You're not just a doctor, which was my limiting belief that I was saying, like "What do I know? I don't know marketing, I don't know business, I don't know real estate. What do I know?"

We're physicians that have a ton of resilience and we learn how to study and we're highly motivated, disciplined, and smart, and are good under pressure. So, you can really learn a lot of different things. Really talk to as many people as you can. I think that is the biggest thing. When I was on my journey, I was on the phone with so many people, including you, John.

John: That's true.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Trying to figure out where do I go? What should I do? And I think that those conversations are very important because you have options.

John: Excellent. That fits right in with what we do here on the podcast. And that is one of those beliefs of physicians, "I don't know anything but medicine". They forget that they're really the cream of the crop. And I'm not trying to be supercilious or condescending to people that aren't physicians. It's just a reality. To get into medical school, you have to jump through so many hoops and maintain such an intense and rigorous learning process that you can learn almost anything you put your mind to. Let's put it that way. I want to thank you again for being here today and sharing all this information.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Thank you so much, John, for having me. I am so honored.

John: You're welcome. It's been my pleasure. And with that, I'll say goodbye.

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The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post Revisiting How to Use Real Estate Investing to Go from Burnout to Financial Freedom – 307 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

In today's episode, John describes how to address 3 big issues when leaving your current employer for a nontraditional career.

The whole process can be less disruptive and stressful by taking steps to address them proactively.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Address 3 Big Issues

There are major financial, legal, and emotional issues that can complicate your transition.

And it is essential to take these matters into account early on in the process. If we consider and deal with things sooner rather than later, things will go better. 

Review Your Contract

Legal or contractual issues will come up during the transition. These contract-related matters should be discussed with your lawyer so that you can prepare for them. The most common concerns that arise include the following:

1. notification requirements,
2. tail coverage,
3. bonus eligibility or calculations,
4. effect on retirement plan vesting, and
5. non-compete provisions (restrictive covenants).

Consider Your Financial Situation

This is usually the most obvious area of concern. Questions to address include:

• Do I have alternative financial resources to cover expenses if I leave my current job?
• Can I ramp up a side job or passive income source to cover expenses?
• Do I have vacation time (paid time off or “PTO”) that I can accrue to maintain my salary for a few weeks or months?

Prepare for the Emotional Consequences

This is a significant one that we frequently overlook: the psychological effects your transition will have on you, your family, and others close to you.

1. Changing jobs results in potentially enormous stress on us, similar to that associated with getting married or having a child.
2. Your immediate family members will be affected and will have concerns about the potential consequences of your career change on them.
3. The workplace will be affected, especially if it depends heavily on you for patient care call coverage.  Dysfunctional medical groups in particular don't always conduct themselves professionally during this process. Some coworkers will display one or more Kübler-Ross' five stages of grief. 

John's Advice

1. Review these issues and plan for them as early in your transition process as possible.
2. Communicate openly and often with your immediate family.
3. Use an attorney to anticipate and plan for the legal and contractual issues.

Summary

It is imperative to address 3 big issues when approaching a career transition. Recognizing and preparing early for these issues will reduce the negative legal, financial, and emotional consequences that might arise.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Get Ready for What Will Happen When You Quit Your Miserable Job – 213
• Avoid These Dumb Mistakes I Made in My Business – 097
• Why Demoralize Your Employed Physicians Over Tail Coverage?
• NewScr!pt

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 282

You Must Address 3 Big Issues Before Leaving Your Clinical Job

John: We have issues with financial problems, legal problems, and emotional problems. And these sometimes are not anticipated. As my colleagues and my friends and students and mentees and so forth, are in the process of transitioning from a clinical to a nonclinical job, these things come up and they're unexpected and they cause some serious problems sometimes. It can even derail the job transition. We want to think about these things early in the process. And in fact, the earlier we think about them and the earlier we investigate them and address them, the better off things will be. So, without any question, this kind of conversation, whether it's with advisors or with our spouse, should occur early.

What are the issues that come up? The first ones I want to talk about are contractual issues, or you might call them legal issues. They're things that are usually in your employment contract. This is obviously applicable to those who work for a large group or work for a hospital system. And there are several of these that can really throw a monkey wrench into the whole process. Now, some of the contractual issues also affect financial issues, and we'll kind of talk about that overlap in a minute. But let's just talk about some of those contractual issues.

The first thing, in no particular order, is the required notification. Sometimes we get all excited. We think, "Okay I'm really having a hard time. I'm going to take some vacation. I'm going to investigate moving into a nonclinical job. I'm going to apply to a nonclinical job." And then boom, lo and behold, they hire you. Now it usually takes longer than just a few weeks. Well, let's say they offer you a job, then you look at your contract and you find out that you actually have to give six months' notice. That's going to really cause a problem, obviously, if they're expecting you to show up in two or three weeks, even a month or two, which is pretty typical.

So, you need to look at your contract and see what your notification time is and if there are any exceptions to that. And if you are in a big hurry, are there some workarounds for that? One workaround might be, let's say you have a bunch of vacation, and let's say you really haven't taken any vacation in a couple of years and you've accrued six or eight weeks of vacation. Well, you can at least work every day until the time you want to leave. And then potentially you can actually get paid for six or eight weeks, even though you've moved on to the next job.

The second thing is tail coverage. A lot of us don't worry about that, and a lot of our contracts don't have that as a requirement, but there are still some places that want you to pay tail coverage if you leave your group or your hospital. And that could be a big expense. That can be $20,000, $30,000, $50,000, or $100,000, and you might be obligated in your contract and maybe even in a hospital medical staff rules and regs to pay that tail coverage at the time of your leaving. And that might just be a huge financial as well as a contractual issue.

Now, it's a big pet peeve of mine. If you're listening to this and you're in the middle of contracting, or you're re-contracting for a current job or looking at a new clinical job, you should really try and get any of your tail coverage removed from the contract. But it can't always be done. So, you need to minimize it during the contract negotiation. But now you're faced with this issue, you want to leave and you're going to have to pay tail. So, you got to check with your attorney. Is it enforceable? In some states it's illegal. So, if it's in that contract, it shouldn't be. Look at how long it is, what does it include, and is there time to change it?

Let's say you're coming up for a contract renewal. Maybe you're on a yearly basis, and you might be able to change a few things. So, you definitely want to look at that tail coverage early as you're thinking about this process of leaving your job. What about vacation and PTO? That's paid time off (vacation). Same thing. Do you have any accrued already? Are you continuing to accrue it while you're thinking about leaving and while you're getting ready to leave for another job? Can you save it up so that you can address some of the other issues we're going to talk about in terms of having some income later? Or do you have to use it up before you leave and you somehow lose some of that PTO time? Is it somewhat at risk? Again, look at the contract, and how it talks about vacation and PTO, and be prepared to deal with that before you give notice.

What about bonuses? A lot of us have been on bonuses in our job. Quality bonuses, utilization bonuses, whatever. There are all kinds of bonuses. There's a dollar amount. Are they paid only once per year? Maybe after the first of the year for the previous year's activity? What happens if you leave three months before the end of the year or mid-year or whenever? So, you might actually want to time your looking, finding and leaving for that next job towards November, or December so you could actually leave after the first of the year and get a hundred percent of any bonus that you are supposed to be receiving.

Another one is retirement plans. Most of us have something straightforward like an IRA, a 401(k), or 403(b), something that can be rolled over. But if you're a highly compensated physician, you might be in a deferred comp plan. A deferred comp plan is usually more of a positive way to encourage you to stay in your job as opposed to a negative penalizing you.

But with many of those kinds of programs, you'll vest over time. Some you'll lose part of the money that you've paid into it. It's actually not your money, it's the organization's money, that they've paid into it. So, see if you can capture the majority of that money based on the timing when you leave or you're going to lose the whole thing.

There are even some plans where the whole thing is at risk unless you retire from the organization, let's say at age 63 or 65 or something. You could be looking at losing $200,000, $300,000, $400,000 because you're changing to another job. You can at least take that into consideration in terms of a bonus for the person or the company that's hiring you or do something else to mitigate it. But you at least want to know that because it will affect the second big issue, which is financial, which we'll talk about in a minute.

And then you've got your non-compete, or what we call restrictive covenants in your agreements. Do you have to understand how long do they stay in effect? How far is it addressing your employment? How far from your current location? Is it from the place you actually provided care? Is it from any site in the system you might be in? You might be working 30 miles from another site and then end up finding out that you can't do any clinical and you might want to do clinical part-time and you might want to do clinical like a switch to locums or telemedicine, something that's not as intense.

But if you have a non-compete and you can't do some of that, that's going to, again, impact more the financial side, which is the next part where we're going to talk about. But it is a contractual issue. So, it has to be dealt with.

I'll say right here, after talking about these contract-related issues that you should have your attorney go through these with you. Look at each one, tell the attorney your plans and see how these things might affect me. Are some of them no longer enforceable either because of changes to the law or maybe because you're already in breach of contract? Not from your standpoint, but the organization you work for might be in breach of contract.

Now usually there are provisions to say, "Well, if they breach one part, that doesn't mean the whole contract is void." But let's say that you were told that you were going to have every four-day call, every fourth week, however, it's laid out. And it turned out they lost a couple of people. They failed to use locums. And now you've been on every other night or every other week call for a year or two, and that's actually why you're leaving. It may be possible to say, "Look, you breached your responsibility so now I'm not going to listen to this non-compete, or I'm not going to abide by this non-compete, or for that manner, I'm not going to pay the tail coverage" going back to that issue from earlier.

But if you're going to do that, that has to be planned also. You probably can't claim breach of contract unless you give your employer some notice like, "I don't plan to re-up my contract because for the last year, you've been violating your contract in this way." And then there's a process, and you went through the notification process. So, on your end, you're doing everything properly. Those are some of the contractual issues you should deal with.

Next is the financial issues. I already talked about the loss of the deferred comp plan. So, we're not going to go into that again. But if you're going to be moving and there's going to be a gap between the time you finish your current job and start your next job, maybe you're going to be looking during that time, maybe you want to have that time to really focus on it and do the interviews and so forth. But do you have the savings to cover your expenses? Maybe you have a spouse who's employed and or a partner, and that's fine. You can get some support from that person. And maybe the two of you put a huge amount of your income aside generally for retirement and so forth, 20%, 25%.

Well, the other thing you can do during that period is to stop making those contributions. But you should plan it. That's the whole point. Do you have a nonclinical side gig right now that you can ramp up? Maybe it won't cover all of your income, but it'll cover enough that it becomes a non-issue.

And then as I said earlier, the converse of using the PTO, let's say up, because you don't want to lose it if you have the ability to accrue it and if you've gone a couple of years without taking any vacation, and now you can go let's say 4, 6, 8 weeks where you're still receiving your pay. Because technically, even though you're looking for that next job, you're actually still getting your check every two weeks because you are on a salary and you have that many weeks of paid time off, then that can help.

Again, look at the income, look at what you need to do to prepare, and make sure you've got enough money set aside if that's what you're going to depend on, or that you have other sources of income. And don't let that become a big shock halfway through your career transition and something falls through, or you find out you're going to be unemployed for longer than you thought you were.

Finally, the emotional consequences. This is a big one and we also forget about quite a lot. I mean the emotional consequences on you, on your family, and relative to the workplace where you are now. I guess the way I would look at this one is to look at it from the perspective of where the stress on you is coming from. So, the first big thing is you, how anxious are you? What does it feel like to you to let's say go several weeks without some income or several months without income, or go through a series of interviews and being evaluated and assessed and questioned? You might not be used to that. Do you feel like you're in control of the process or do you feel quite anxious and fearful because it's unknown?

Each of us is a little different on that. Now, most of us physicians are very decisive. We're very calm. We usually can do very good research and we can plan things out pretty well. But transitioning from clinical to nonclinical is not quite the same kind of linear approach. It can be broken down into steps absolutely as I help people do. But it's not quite as straightforward as going to undergrad, getting into med school, getting in residency, and then getting into fellowship, if you do that, and knowing the steps well in advance as to what has to happen, and it's all pretty regimented.

But then there's your family's response. Your spouse clearly needs to be included in these conversations, spouse, partner, whoever you're living with. And the thing about children. I had someone tell me recently that he was concerned that his children would be afraid if he's looking and switching to a new job. Would they have to move, would they have to change schools? If you have a six-month hold at home and that's it, it's not a big deal. If you have a couple of kids in grammar school and high school, it can become a big deal for them, and then they can act out, they can have emotional problems, and stress related to even thinking about it, even if it's not going to happen. So, you have to figure out how to have those conversations.

The other thing is what is the employer's response? You go through the contract, you give your notice appropriately, and it sounds like it should be fairly straightforward. But when I've talked to physicians that have gone through this process, especially in large medical groups, especially large poorly run or dysfunctional medical groups, how are they going to act?

And they don't always act professionally during this process. In fact, many are extremely dysfunctional and some seem to be going through the Kubler-Ross five stages of grief or death and dying. The denial, the anger, the bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Acceptance doesn't come right away. And people might ignore you. They might shun you. They might try to dump on you all the work. They get angry, they don't want to talk to you, and they don't want to cooperate with you. They might start giving you more call than they should. And maybe that's something you should address with them early on.

So, think about the emotional and mental health-related issues that could occur in the process of making a big change. Maybe even working 10, or 20 years in a stable clinical job. You're burned out, you've had it, and you're already stressed out. Of course, with burnout, you have symptoms very similar sometimes to depression or anxiety. And now you're going through a major life change that can affect not only you but your family.

And so, again, mentally prepare yourself for that. You can do things. I could give you a long list of things you could do that would help like learning how to meditate and how to maintain some exercise and fitness while you're going through this process to burn off some of that anxiety. The things you normally would probably use to help fight burnout or depression or anxiety you would also use when going through this process.

The other big things that I would say related to these potential issues that you should address is the following. Number one, start early. The earlier you start thinking about it, talking about it, investigating it, researching it, and engaging who you need to engage, the better. So, start early on that part, on the legal part, on the financial, all of it.

Number two, communicate extensively with your family especially. Talk to your partner about this and plan it out together. And make sure that your partner, your spouse, and your kids have some understanding of what's happening. Try not to overwhelm them, try not to scare them unnecessarily. Just communicating constantly helps. Over-communicating is also something we tell leaders to do but it's important. People don't really always get the message the first time you give it.

So, start early, and communicate extensively with your family. And then the last is to get the expert advice that you need. As I say, from the legal financial side, you need an attorney. Maybe it's the same attorney that helped you negotiate your contract, but somebody that knows healthcare, somebody that knows employment contracts, looks through all those issues that I've mentioned. There are probably others that should be addressed proactively, should be prepared for, or should at least be understood so that you are not shocked when something crazy happens like you get a bill for tail coverage or you find out you can't do that part-time clinical job a mile down the road.

But also, others. Maybe you should see a counselor or a therapist if you have to, to help work through some of these things, at least the emotional side, especially. Maybe a coach. That can be very helpful. And possibly even a financial advisor, or an accountant wouldn't hurt. If you're seeing an account anyway for your income taxes, well, why not just do an extra one-hour visit? Explain what you're planning to do and see if they can sign off on it from the standpoint of the financial consequences of your plan.

I think that's it. I just wanted you to be aware of those issues. If you're getting a little burned out, if you're really in the pre-contemplative moving into the contemplative stage of "I might actually want to move to a nonclinical job", then you should start thinking about these issues and including these issues in your whole planning process.

All right, that's it for today's episode. I hope you found that helpful.

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Disclaimers:

Many of the links that I refer you to are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you.

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post You Must Address 3 Big Issues Before Leaving Your Clinical Job – 282 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev explains how to use real estate investing to find financial freedom in this week's interview. 

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Learning to Use Real Estate Investing

However, after spending years learning about alternatives to clinical practice, she found a way to deploy her earnings to create a passive income stream. Through passive real estate investing, she was able to quit her grueling emergency room job and move into a less-demanding role at a medical device company.

Ronnie has devoted the past few years to investing in syndications, in which investors pool their resources to purchase apartments. When done properly, this approach can provide the following benefits:

• cash flow
• appreciation in value
• tax benefits
• diversification
• capital preservation

Finding Balance

Ronnie was able to leave emergency medicine and overcome burnout. She found balance by working in the medical device industry while investing in passive real estate.

Now, she helps frustrated physicians who feel trapped to earn income with passive real estate investments. She teaches others about real estate and provides real estate investment opportunities through her company, Shalwin Properties.

Summary

Dr. Ronnie Shalev was able to escape her “golden handcuffs” by investing in passive real estate. Over time, the income from real estate enabled her to find a more fulfilling job and eliminate her burnout. Now she has created a new business to help other physicians do the same thing.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Shalwin Properties
• Free webinar describing passive real estate investing (invest.shalwinproperties.com)
• Dr. Ronnie Shalev's LinkedIn Page
• NewScr!pt

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 229

How to Use Real Estate Investing to Go from Burnout to Financial Freedom

John: Let's hear about Dr. Shalev's transformation. Dr. Ronnie Shalev, welcome.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Thank you so much, John. I am so honored to be here. I'm an avid listener of your podcast. It has helped me for many years. Before I was ready to jump ship and leave clinical practice I listened to many episodes and I don't know if you remember, but we had a nice offline conversation where you mentored me about whether I should go into business school or get a master's degree. And so, you've really been an integral part of my career transition. I'm really, really excited to be here.

John: Well, that is very nice of you to say. I appreciate that, but I do love seeing people that maybe I've run across over the years and where they were struggling. And then two, three years down the road, they've made some changes. They've learned some new things. Maybe they've taken a course. Maybe they've gotten a degree. It doesn't really matter, but they've made changes that have made their lives more balanced and more enjoyable, I guess, is the bottom line. So, I'm really happy and I would say I'm proud of you for having gone through that. You seem to be very happy with what you're doing now, and that's what we're going to learn about today.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: I am very happy. I'm excited to be here.

John: All right. I do a separate intro in most of these, and I will be giving you listeners some background on Ronnie. But why don't you give us the thumbnail in terms of your background, your clinical career, maybe even where you went to med school and so forth, and bring us up to where you are now?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Sure. Ever since I was a little girl, I knew I wanted to be a doctor. It was like, "What are you going to be? - A doctor." My father is a physician and for many years tried to dissuade me. "You're not going to like it. You shouldn't do it. You won't have a personal life. You won't have kids. You'll never get married." Whatever he could throw at me, I blocked and I was not able to be dissuaded. I was going to be a doctor no matter what. And that determination carried me through high school, through college, and to medical school, I got into medical school. I went to Texas Tech, in Lubbock, and in El Paso.

And suddenly I was at a crossroads, like, "Okay, I'm a doctor now. I did it. Now what?" Then it was really a hard choice that I never even considered. Like "What kind of doctor are you going to be?" And after really going through the pros and cons of the different fields I decided to go with, well, I like procedures, I want flexibility in my life. Everything that my dad had thrown at me to dissuade me was like, "Okay, it's not going to apply. I'm going to find a career that gives me the flexibility, the time, the money to have the freedom to be a doctor, and also be a mom and also have a family and everything."

So, I chose emergency medicine, and I went on to a residency in Philadelphia, at Drexel University, studying with really the father of emergency medicine and really great attendings and had a great education that came out of there. Fired up, ready to take on the world.

I moved to the Bronx and I worked in a hybrid hospital where I was in a community setting, but I also had academic responsibilities. I was working with residents. I was the residency site director. I was doing grand rounds in teaching and doing bedside teaching and lecturing and things like that.

And after two years, I really started feeling a lot of early symptoms of burnout. Only two years there. And I thought, "Oh, it must be living in New York. It must be working with residents." I didn't know what it was, but I ran, and I moved back to Dallas where I grew up. I was like, "Okay, I'm going to be with my family. I'm going to be in a city that I like, where it'll be like coming home. And I'm just going to be a straight-up community ER doctor."

And 12 years I worked in the ER here in various settings, high trauma centers, high volume, low volume, free-standing emergency rooms. And really that burnout never went away. I kept on saying, "Well, maybe it's the patient population. Maybe it's the administration. Maybe it's this hospital versus this hospital. Maybe the shifts are too stressful." I really just tried it all. And then I started fantasizing, maybe I need to open up a restaurant.

John: Oh, no. That's a big jump.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Maybe I should open up a car wash. I started looking into that really heavily, like, "Okay, I just want to do a mindless job."

John: Let me jump in there before you finish up with where you are today. First of all, when you talk about knowing the grandfather of emergency medicine, I had forgotten that emergency medicine is actually a relatively young specialty. When I was finishing my family medicine residency, I think they were just the first one or two full-blown ER residencies. That was a long time ago.

The other thing, when you're talking it seems like, "Okay, I have shift work. I can do eight hours. I can do 12 hours and do those three days a week. That should be fine. I can make money and I should be able to unwind." But I'm telling you, it just blows my mind that hospitalists and ER docs I hear so often from are just super burned out. And I don't know if it's just because of the way medicine is paid for by CMS, mostly in the hospital setting and other insurers, but just there's high volume. I would think it'd be great to be a hospitalist or an ER doc, if you didn't have to try and squeeze in six patients an hour, half of whom are critically ill. I guess that's part of it from what I know.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah, definitely. I felt like I was being treated like a commodity. I was being traded. Resources were taken away from me every single year. Every single year I got a pay cut. Every single year they told me I had less support, fewer nurses, fewer scribes. Went downtown from the zero scribes, I would have less physician hour coverage. They even took away my mid-level assistance. It was just the way that the administration burdens you and you're just pushed and pushed and pushed. And if you don't break, they push you further.

John: Yeah. It really irritates me when they talk about, "Well, what we need to do is teach physicians how to be more resilient." It's like, no, you need to cut their hours back and give them time to document and not burn them out. It has nothing to do with resilience. Physicians are already super-resilient to begin with.

But tell me what are you doing today as you sit here and just briefly what you're doing, and then we'll come back and find out how that evolved. And we're going to focus on just one of the fields that you're working in right now. But give us a quick snapshot of where you are now.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah. Ultimately, I left clinical medicine. I actually have two parallel careers. In one of them, I'm the director of post-market surveillance of a medical device company, where I run five teams of engineers and another team for revenue cycle. And so, I have about 120 people under me. That's one of my careers. The second one is I'm a real estate investor. I focus on workforce housing and apartments syndications.

John: Okay. The second one is what we're going to focus on today because in our offline conversation beforehand, it seemed like you were telling me that it was really the real estate and the ability to generate some income while not having a huge demand on time, that actually allows you the flexibility to do the other things and still maintain. Tell me about that. How did you come to this combination of careers and what are the pros and cons of doing it the way you're doing it?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: What I'd like to say is that there is no right way. There's no wrong way. There's just a way. I had a barrier because I was the primary breadwinner and I had these golden handcuffs. I made a lot of money, and every career choice that I looked at was a 50% pay cut. I said, "Okay, well, maybe I can start working and doing things simultaneously, doing two careers at once. I'll work nights, I'll work weekends. It'll still bring in that income, but then I'll work in the other job."

And what I came to realize is that I need to figure out a way to work when I'm not at work. Make money when I'm sleeping. How do you make recurring income that you're not actually doing something directly for it or where you're not trading your time for money?

That's where I started investing in real estate and was able to generate enough recurring income that I had the freedom to look at other job opportunities, other careers that I hadn't considered before because of that salary barrier that had existed prior. I did get a lot of freedom by getting recurring income that I wasn't trading my time for money.

John: And it's not that this passive income, which I'm assuming does require some upfront work. It doesn't just happen spontaneously. Maybe you can tell us about that, but I take it that you just need to earn enough doing that passive to give you that flexibility, that the other job may not pay as much. It's enough combined to maintain your standard of living.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah. I would agree with that. When you're a doctor, there's a lot of upfront work. You're going to medical school, college, residency, but then you continue to work. With investing in real estate, there's upfront work. You have to learn what are the investing options and classes of apartments or whatever classes of real estate and what you want to do. But then you do it and then you can just sit back. So, you do the work and it doesn't continue. There is work. There's always work to learn something. Nothing's 100% passive, but it doesn't require a lot of time after you've done the initial investment.

John: All right. Stage one, if I put it in perspective, is you're clinically working and you're noticing that things aren't going well, you're not that happy. You might become burned out. You've maybe tried some shifts moving around doing different things. And it's still not getting better and then it's like, "Okay. One of the things I've got to do is put some of this cash aside because I'm going to need it to generate some passive income and the future might be with real estate."

Now tell us about the real estate side. There are at least 10 different ways of investing in real estate from just buying it on stocks that hold investments to flipping a house to everything in between. How did you choose what you're doing? Tell us a little bit about the options that you looked at and why you decide to do what you're actually doing now.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Initially I was saying that I don't have the time to be flipping houses, to do house hacking. I didn't want a house hack. With house hacking, you have to rent out your rooms in your own house. I didn't want anybody living with me. I didn't want to live next to a tenant. There are a lot of ways that you can buy a duplex on one side and rent out the other side. And I didn't want to live next to my tenants. If they're not paying rent or they're being loud. I just didn't want that life. And I didn't want to be renovating. I didn't have the time. I'm a mom, I'm an ER doctor.

I was looking at really fewer hands-on options. And the most hands-off option is commercial real estate, and specifically syndications. There are a lot of other options you can do, like turnkey investments and things like that, but I wanted a large scale. I started investing in commercial real estate through syndications. I really didn't know much about which asset class. I invested in all of them. I did self-storage. I've done retail centers. I did a standalone building. I've done industrial, I've done RV parks, I've done assisted living.

And ultimately, I got involved with apartments because I felt like they were more stable than the rest of the asset classes. I really fell in love with the stability of it. I think after so much risk with the stock market or my portfolio swings so many ways, I was just desperate to get out of medicine and I didn't want to risk losing any money. I felt like apartments were the most stable of the assets that I tried. That's where I've focused most of my portfolio. We sold a lot of our stocks, a lot of my retirement and put it all in apartments. And with that recurring income, I was able to really step away from clinical practice.

John: Okay. Now that brings up a question that's applicable to me. That is that most of my retirement money, and I'm a lot closer to retirement than you are, is in an IRA or some kind of tax-deferred thing. Just as an aside, can you buy those syndicates or get involved or buy the apartments or get the syndicates within the tax-deferred account? Or do you have to pull the money out, pay the taxes on it and then invest it in the apartment?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah. That's a great question. Actually, there are special accounts where you can invest your retirement accounts and alternative assets. You can buy Bitcoin and silver and gold, and you can do real estate. You need a special account. And I have an EQRP, but it's like a self-directed 401(k) and there are special accounts that you need in order to do that. But it's definitely possible.

John: So if you're interested in this and you're not using, let's say, already tax money that you put aside, then you should just basically talk to wherever you have your IRAs or those tax-deferred accounts. And there should be an expert there, obviously, that can explain how that can be done and that sort of thing.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah, absolutely.

John: What is a syndication? A syndicate? It doesn't have anything to do with the mob, I take it.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: It's such a scary word, isn't it? Syndication. No one knows what that really is, but it's really about partnerships and teams. And it is basically investors that pool their money together to buy a large asset. And there's a lot of people that do that kind of partnership and they buy hospitals, they buy surgical centers, they buy freestanding emergency rooms. I'm involved in a syndication for a free-standing emergency room.

You basically buy shares of an entity, which is a pre-existing business. A syndication is when you're buying commercial real estate that's $30 million, $100 million, whatever it is. And you can't just buy that by yourself. You make a partnership with basically 50 to 100 people, and you all buy it together.

John: Okay. Were those ER facilities, freestanding, are those in Texas?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yes.

John: There are not many states that let people create these large networks of ER. In Illinois, it would never pass. You have a certificate of need. They don't exist at all. Interesting. Because I talked to a guest who was in Texas, who was actually a CEO for a company that opens those kinds of facilities. So, I thought it might be in Texas. All right, I'm digressing.

Now the thing is to me, somebody's got to manage the whole thing. And a lot of it's based on their experience, based on their integrity, do they know what they're doing? Can they be trusted? How do you sort through all that?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah, that's a great question. Really there's the active team, which are the sponsors, and then there are the limited partners that are not the active ones. And you really do need to vet your sponsors, the sponsorship team, and look at what's their track record. Talking to people that have invested with them, even Googling them, seeing what their portfolios have done, seeing what is their track record, what kind of returns are they getting for their investors.

I started really investing with so many different syndicators, in so many different groups that I learned what I liked and what I didn't. I like that some of them are automated. Some of them are sending checks. Some of them are wiring money. There are different things that I prefer. And that's just going to be more convenient for me. The rate of communication that they have with their investors, how responsive are they. I think all of that is important. Basically, I've done so much passive work that I decided I want to offer this to other people and I learned how to be an active syndicator. So, I'm a sponsor now. I've taken mentorship and conferences and seminars and basically, now I can do all the things that I wanted in my sponsorship. I can do that for my investors.

John: Okay. What does that look like? Being active, you have to recruit investors, you have to do some marketing, I take it. Is that complicated?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yes. I didn't learn any marketing in medical school. But it's really fun. You're meeting a lot of different people. You don't have to do it all yourself. And this is where I'm really leveraging teams. I'm partnering with different groups and we're splitting up the work. They might do acquisitions and banking. I might do the investor relations and the capital raise. I might go do the due diligence. I might help with the renovations, whatever it is at the time you have the flexibility, as long as you're working with a great team, then you can choose what you want to do and it's okay to learn. It's okay to be uncomfortable. I learned to ease that discomfort.

John: Now, we didn't talk about this beforehand, but you have a website. Of course, we talked about that, but that has something that people can download if they're interested in learning more about this whole process, is that right?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yes.

John: Okay. Because it says several reasons why multifamily investing makes sense. So, let's mention the website. shalwinproperties.com is the website. Although I think you're going to be sending people to something with a similar name. So, tell me about that.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah. It's going to be invest.shalwinproperties.com.

John: Okay. And what will the listeners find when they go there?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: They're going to get really a video of pretty much consecutive webinars, mini webinars that teach you about real estate and why real estate and why apartments and why syndications? And what kind of returns are you expecting? And what is the terminology? And why really apartment investing is a great hedge against inflation. I have a lot of good content there. It's short, really digestible, educational materials.

John: Excellent. Listeners, it should be live. This is probably going to be posted three or four weeks from when we're recording it. I'm giving Ronnie enough time to get this done here since she's made that commitment. But it's invest.shalwinproperties.com. I'll put that in the show notes.

I guess I do have a question. I'm actually buying a house right as we speak, which is weird, and also selling a house and buying another house, not for investment purposes, but downsizing, and then getting a place in Scottsdale, which is a lot warmer than the Chicago area, which is miserable in the winter. And so, I'm really concerned about interest rates and loans. And luckily the loan rates are still quite low. So that helped me in buying the house in Scottsdale, but inflation and all that.

To me, we still have a shortage of homes I think, in this country, which drives a lot more people into renting. And I don't see that changing even if inflation comes and causes some kind of issue. Explain in your way, again, this is not investment advice per se. We're not doing that, but I'm just trying to understand your perspective on, like you said, why would apartment investing and doing a syndicate in that be pretty safe and good in an environment where maybe we're going to have some inflation growing for a while?

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah, absolutely. I love apartments for many reasons, but one of them is that there is a high demand for apartments. Single-family home prices are going so high that people can't afford to buy their own homes, which is forcing them to be runners. Then there's the population that chooses to be renters. There are millennials that don't want the headaches of owning a home. They don't want toilet leaks and plumbing issues and roof leaks, and they don't want the headaches. They just want a nice place to live and just to pay rent. They're the ones that are choosing to rent. There are also the seniors. Seniors also might need the money. They might not want the headaches. They might want to change of scenery or whatever it is, they're choosing to rent.

So, there's a lot of demand. And right now, the building material and the building costs are so high, especially because of inflation, that things are not getting built. It's what the inventory is right now, which is creating a higher demand. You're building that and you're building that. And so, I'm in an asset where my occupancy rates are going to go up. And when there's so much demand, my rents are going to go up. We're seeing rents jump up right now in Dallas like 9%. In other markets, like 12%.

I have a deal in Las Vegas and the rents there are jumping 12% over the last year. Because there are so many people moving to different areas and there are just not enough places for them to live, the rents are shooting up, which is great because that actually translates into an increase in value.

There are a lot of sales going on right now. With interest rates being so low, and rents going up, it's causing a lot of trading of these properties. People are selling and buying larger properties or selling and buying nicer properties or younger properties or whatever it is that they're doing. So, there's a lot of movement within the apartment world right now. As the rents go up, the value goes up and it basically helps you just like the dollar is losing value through inflation. If the rents keep going up, you're not losing money because you're investing in a property that's going up in value.

John: Yeah. And I take it from what I've read in the past that when you go into a deal with certain parameters and if something changes such that the rents can be raised, that's just gravy there, right? You can usually go into it saying, okay, it's going to be 3% or 4% per year, maybe for the next three to five years, but lo and behold, no, the market for houses has gone crazy. Therefore, secondarily, the apartments are being snapped up quickly and the rents are going up. That's just a positive for everybody. At least from the investment standpoint, not from the renter.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Absolutely. Not from the renter's perspective, but from the investor's perspective, the rents go up. But part of the business plan in a lot of these deals is doing something called forced appreciation, where you're renovating the properties and making them nicer and raising the rents. If you can raise the rents and not do that, that's even better for the bottom line. But you basically mitigate, it'll go up with the renovations and then with market trends, with the organic rent growth. And if you're in a market that's hot like Dallas or Vegas or Arizona, Phoenix, those markets are just exploding. They're in high demand for sure.

John: Well, I know from just the housing market in Phoenix, Scottsdale, they've had two years in a row of double-digit increases in home prices. It's just unreal. It's crazy. People are like, I can't buy a home there. They've gone up $200,000 in a few years. Wow. So that then also translates into the entire real estate, I'm assuming.

The other reason I'm concerned, and this is a little hint for those who want to start a podcast, if you have a question and you're looking to do some research, just start a podcast and get a guest like Ronnie on, and then you can pick a brain for free.

Pretty much my retirements are in stocks and some bonds. And I would like to be a little more diversified and I'm afraid we've had basically double-digit stock market increases in the last two years and that never goes on forever. It always comes down. I think that's why many of us are thinking we should try and diversify if we're not already.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Oh yeah, for sure. My portfolio is heavily in biotech. And it is way down. Currently, whatever I have left is trapped until there's a turnaround, which is exactly the opposite of what I want.

John: Right. You don't want that. All right. Well, this has been very interesting. Listeners, again, invest.shalwinproperties.com. Sounds like we can learn a lot just by going through the videos. Now, I'm sure it's going to be a sales pitch involved with that, but again, why not work with a physician that have some level of integrity that we can at least be assured of? And so, that's good.

I just want to go back to the original beginning of this whole thing about being burnt out and stressed out and crushing your soul and that sort of thing in working in medical situations. Tell me if you have any advice for people that are just finding themselves, physicians that are in that position now. Maybe some words of advice and encouragement.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Yeah. I think the biggest thing is that you have a lot of options. You're not just a doctor, which was my limiting belief that I was saying, like "What do I know? I don't know marketing, I don't know business, I don't know real estate. What do I know?"

We're physicians that have a ton of resilience and we learn how to study and we're highly motivated, disciplined, and smart, and are good under pressure. So, you can really learn a lot of different things. Really talk to as many people as you can. I think that is the biggest thing. When I was on my journey, I was on the phone with so many people, including you, John.

John: That's true.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Trying to figure out where do I go? What should I do? And I think that those conversations are very important because you have options.

John: Excellent. That fits right in with what we do here on the podcast. And that is one of those beliefs of physicians, "I don't know anything but medicine". They forget that they're really the cream of the crop. And I'm not trying to be supercilious or condescending to people that aren't physicians. It's just a reality. To get into medical school, you have to jump through so many hoops and maintain such an intense and rigorous learning process that you can learn almost anything you put your mind to. Let's put it that way. I want to thank you again for being here today and sharing all this information.

Dr. Ronnie Shalev: Thank you so much, John, for having me. I am so honored.

John: You're welcome. It's been my pleasure. And with that, I'll say goodbye.

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The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post How to Use Real Estate Investing to Go from Burnout to Financial Freedom – 229 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Get ready for the financial, legal, and psychosocial consequences of giving notice to your employer or partners.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Idealized Process for Leaving

You may envision the following scenario as your exit plan:

1. You will find something else to do, either clinical or nonclinical, or both.
2. Once that’s locked in, or you have a really sound plan, you will give separation notice to your employer.
3. You will leave in a few weeks to a few months from now, and that will be that! Problem solved.

Unfortunately, that is not how it usually goes. If not fully prepared, what follows are a series of unexpected financial, legal, and/or psychosocial consequences that can slow or complicate your departure. 

Get Ready for Financial Issues

Any pivot will have financial consequences. If there is a gap between jobs, you’ll need a nest egg to get you through the time when income temporarily stops. This is ameliorated if you have passive income from other sources, or if your spouse’s income can cover expenses while you’re in the process of transitioning.

Here are some questions to keep in mind before finalizing your decision to give notice:

• Am I forgoing any retirement funds or deferred compensation by leaving? For example, certain plans are forfeited if you leave employment before retirement age.
• What expenses might I incur, including malpractice tail coverage, which can be quite expensive?
• Are there performance or quality bonus dollars that I lose if I am not employed at the end of a calendar or fiscal year? A relatively short delay in leaving might bring thousands of dollars of income that would otherwise be forfeited.
• If I leave, will I need to pay back any sign-on bonuses I received when joining the current group or system?

Get Ready for Legal Issues

This leads us to the legal ramifications. An employment contract is typically a long and complicated document. Many provisions are forgotten until separation is imminent. And some of them will prevent, postpone or complicate your departure.

Questions to consider include:

• Will a restrictive covenant keep me from working in my new job?
• If I’m shifting to my own practice, am I prevented from bringing key employees from my previous employer with me?
• What happens with the remaining time off and other benefits outlined in my agreement?
• How do I handle the process if I don’t have an employment agreement? What are the Human Resources Department Procedures that I agreed to follow when I took the job?

Get Ready for Psychosocial Issues

You may observe a common behavioral pattern in colleagues and employers when leaving. That pattern is Kubler-Ross’s 5 Stages of Death and Dying.

You may go through the stages of denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance once you realize that you can no longer tolerate working in your current situation. But you may not be prepared for those very same steps occurring in your colleagues and employer. The denial and anger of those around you can be particularly disconcerting.

It is naïve to think that a business that is dysfunctional is going to respond to your departure in a functional way.

Your managers may avoid you, even though there are issues to take care of. They may try to involve you in matters that are no longer of your concern. And they may attempt to burden you with more than your share of on-call duties. They may treat you as if you are not leaving.

You may intend to be completely professional and deliberate as you wrap things up. But prepare yourself for others to be oppositional, upset, angry, or in denial. This may manifest as passive-aggressive or overtly hostile behavior. So, how do you get ready for these potentially disruptive problems?

How to Prepare

Here is how to get ready for your transition when leaving your current employer.

1. Take time to develop a plan BEFORE you put anything in motion. Make a list of all of the above factors and consider how to approach each one.
2. Do your due diligence before reaching out to your employer. Review your employment contract or partnership agreement. Write down any aspects that involve significant financial consequences or legal landmines.
3. Do your own financial analysis based on what you plan to do. And strongly consider involving your accountant. In addition to the direct monetary consequences of the move, there may be tax consequences. And you may need to adjust estimated income tax payments. It might be worthwhile to have your accountant create a pro forma, forecasting the 1-, 3- and 5-year consequences of taking the new job compared to staying in the old job.
4. Next, I would meet with your attorney to go over questions in your employment or partnership agreement before making any final decisions about leaving. Be sure you understand the requirements for giving notice, and what happens once it is given.
5. Once you feel secure in your decision and have an understanding of how the separation should be handled, give notice per your attorney’s instruction. Generally, that will include speaking directly with the appropriate person (delivering the notice in person), followed by certified mail if required.
6. Prepare yourself mentally for the response from your current employer and those around you (starting with denial, and anger, and moving to bargaining, depression, and acceptance over time). Realize that denial and anger may follow quite quickly.

Final Thoughts

Oftentimes, you’re leaving an employer because it is dysfunctional. It may not be run like a business, with no regular meetings, problems that are ignored, the chain of command is ambiguous, and nonexistent strategic planning. It is naïve to think that a business that is dysfunctional is going to respond to your departure in a functional way.

So, be prepared.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Why Demoralize Your Employed Physicians Over Tail Coverage?
• What You Need to Know About Physician Recruiting Incentives

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post Get Ready for What Will Happen When You Quit Your Miserable Job – 213 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

In this week's podcast episode, Dr. David Yeh describes how to invest wisely when preparing for a career pivot.

David is a practicing physician, speaker, author, investment advisor, and founder of The Wealthy Doctor Institute. He is also a Registered Investment Advisor.

He is an alumnus of Cornell University and New York University School of Medicine. Following medical school, he completed residencies in radiology at SUNY Stoney Brook University Hospital and Nuclear Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania Health System. And he is board certified in Radiology and Nuclear Medicine

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, unlike other programs, which typically run 1 – 1/2 to 2 years, this program only takes a year to complete. Recently, Economist Magazine ranked the business school #1 in the world as the Most Relevant Executive MBA.

While in the program, you'll participate in a company project. That will enable you to demonstrate your commitment. And, as a result, the UT PEMBA students bring exceptional value to their organizations.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations. And they've become entrepreneurs and business owners.

By joining the University of Tennessee physician executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills needed to find a career that you really love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Invest Wisely

After discussing David's background, he quickly gets into the basic principles that we should apply to long-term investing. The most basic way to invest wisely is to adopt an approach that limits losses.

Having a plan, even a simple one-rule plan such as dollar-cost averaging, gives you an edge over investors who have no plan. – Dr. David Yeh

According to David's analysis, the best outcomes come from following a plan, reviewing your portfolio, and applying adjustments monthly. Focussing only on trying to identify winning investments does not work.

Writing His Book

David explains the process he used for writing and publishing his book, The Busy Doctor's Investment Guide. With the assistance of his publisher, Advantage Media Group, he was able to capture his idea and complete the book quickly. Its staff helped him to organize the content, and teach readers how to invest wisely.

Click to purchase – Affiliate Link

The book is clearly written and highlights several loss-mitigation strategies. It also covers the basic principles that every investor should know. One chapter is devoted to investor psychology.

Preparing for a Career Pivot

David recommends we stick to the basics when preparing for a career pivot. It is likely that there will be a temporary reduction in or loss of income. So, it's best to be debt-free. And you should have a sufficient emergency fund and capital for living expenses, based on the projected time needed to complete your pivot.

If starting a new business, a business plan and financial projections must be prepared. And you should double the projected time to break-even and expenses during the first year. An overly optimistic business plan has sunk many small businesses.

Wealthy Doctor Institute

Today, David still practices part-time radiology. He considers himself semi-retired from clinical practice. He also runs his business, Wealthy Doctor Institute, and manages an investment fund. His philosophy is to be a coach to his clients and to be transparent in how funds are invested.

Summary

Dr. David Yeh successfully balances two careers: medicine and investing. In this week's interesting interview, we learn how he accomplished it. And we've identified a resource that physicians might use to help direct their long term investments.

Links for Today's Episode:

• The Busy Doctor's Investment Guide
• Advantage Media Group
• Wealthy Doctor Institute
• Wealthy Doctor Institute Facebook Group
• Dr. David Yeh's LinkedIn Profile

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

The post How to Invest Wisely and Support Your Career Pivot – 164 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.