Interview with Dr. Dana Corriel – 325

This week, John dives into an insightful interview with Dr. Dana Corriel, where she shares invaluable insights on personal branding and the path to nonclinical careers for physicians.

Dr. Dana Corriel, a renowned expert in personal branding for physicians and nonclinical careers in healthcare, shared her valuable insights on episode 94 back in June 2019. She brings a wealth of knowledge as a board-certified internist who has recognized the evolving role of the Internet in healthcare. She is dedicated to empowering healthcare professionals to brand themselves effectively and contribute to improving the healthcare system.

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The Power of Personal Branding in Healthcare

The conversation underscores the power of personal branding, allowing physicians to control their professional identity, regardless of the hospital systems or organizations they work with. Authenticity remains a central theme, with Dr. Corriel stressing that a physician's brand should authentically mirror their principles, vision, and values.

But today, each of us are basically brands. We are each becoming what’s called intellectual property – Understanding Branding

Furthermore, Dana, provided key points to guide physicians in creating their brand aligned with their values and career goals:

1. Understanding branding
2. Creating content online
3. Authenticity and values
4. Nonclinical careers

Dr. Dana Corriel's Important Message

I think that all of us as healthcare professionals need to first of all take a step back and survey the situation and determine where our fit is here, and then arm ourselves with the tools in order to fit ourselves in this in the right way.

Summary

Dr. Corriel recognizes that the journey toward personal branding and nonclinical careers is a unique and individualized process. She emphasizes the importance of physicians charting their path and carving out their niche within their preferred field. This approach grants them autonomy and control over their career, a liberating shift for physicians who may have felt constrained within the conventional healthcare system.

She also mentioned SoMeDocs, a platform designed to assist with networking and content creation, which can be a valuable resource for physicians looking to explore nonclinical career opportunities.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode. 

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

• SoMeDocs
• Dr. Corriel's LinkedIn Page
• Dr. Corriel's Personal Website
• The Delightful Life of the Expert Social Media Doctor – 094
• NewScr!pt

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Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 325

Top Insider Tips on Branding and Social Media - Interview with Dr. Dana Corriel

John: Hello everybody, this is John Jurica. I'm a podcaster at Physician Nonclinical Careers podcast. That's kind of my claim to fame in a way, and the reason why I'm interested in hearing about branding and social media and anything related to that. I don't know exactly what we're going to hear today, but Dana did say that she was willing to spend some time teaching us about branding and social media. And so, I've got a few questions, but she is an internist and she has SoMeDocs and somedocs.com and drcorriel.com and some other things too numerous for me to mention. And so, I appreciate her for being here today and today. Dana, if you want to go ahead and say anything else about your introduction, I'd be happy to have you do that for us.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Absolutely. To whoever's here and whoever's listening later, I'm Dana Corriel. I'm a board certified internist, and I have dabbled in the online space for many years. Years ago, I foreshadowed that the internet would be the main form of communication between humans and I actually don't even think we've reached the place where we're going to be in the future, but I can definitely foresee what's going to happen, and in an attempt to brace myself, towards that place, I think that all of us as healthcare professionals need to first of all take a step back and survey the situation and determine where our fit is here, and then arm ourselves with the tools in order to fit ourselves in this in the right way.

I think that we are the rightful healthcare influencers. I think that the word "influencer" has a really bad rap, but I think that if you re-angle the way you think of influencing, you can realize that many of us, we influence every single day. And so, what I specialize in is how do we brand ourselves as physicians the right way? How do we do that together? And then what are many of the tools that we can use to do that? And I have created many of those resources that I have, and I actually just left clinical medicine in order to dedicate my 100% full effort towards bettering the healthcare system and doing it together.

John: Yeah, that's a good intro. I'm definitely interested in breaking this down and getting your input on this and learn more about it. I think the simplest thing is to just ask you to maybe describe what you mean by when you talk about branding, because it's like a term that I can get my head around. I know that we need to get our message out there and let people know who we are. But when you're thinking and talking about branding for physicians, give me the whole overview of what that might mean.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Yeah. The old way that we used to think of a brand was like a thing, a product, a physical entity. One of those examples could be Coca-Cola, another one could be Nike. When you say those words, it conjures images of certain things. It also conjures up emotions. When we say Coca-Cola, the Coca-Cola company would like to brand itself as something that is refreshing, something like that puts a smile on your face. That's why they have images out of the polar bear during Christmas and happy families. That's extremely clever marketing techniques to brand.

But today, each of us are basically brands. We are each becoming what's called intellectual property - IP. And that means that each of us is a brand that could be represented on different platforms that are not necessarily physical or existent. Examples are on social media platforms, like on Facebook and on Twitter. Another example is in a book. You could put your thoughts down, your IP down in a book. But at the end of the day, it's important for us as physicians to be a part of that space because eventually in the future, if you don't own your rightful intellectual property, then someone else can.

And so, again, that's just very brief in a nutshell. I want to also mention that an example that comes to mind when I think of an intellectual property that's an actual person is someone like Oprah or someone actually like Dr. Oz. These are people that stand for something. They are brands. Oprah. She is someone who's thought process and thinking in general, the things that she puts out are extremely valuable and important. Same with Dr. Oz. Whether or not you agree with him, he's looked up to. And so, how amazing would it be if physicians were actual thought leaders as we should be, because we've earned degrees and we're medical doctors, and so we're intelligent people that are capable and should be creating intellectual property that's valued.

John: We should have a persona. We represent some authority and that sort of thing, which is all part of our brand. And so, if I'm in my practice, then there's a certain brand associated with that. But that does extend particularly in the Facebook group where we're aiming some of this is that there are a lot of people in there that are looking not to be in practice. So, maybe you can expound a little bit on the importance of branding in those situations.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Oh, absolutely. In fact, now more than ever, I think I mentioned that I left clinical practice. I didn't leave clinical practice because of my SoMeDocs because it is taking off. I left because healthcare is broken in my opinion. It wasn't working for me. I'm a generalist, I'm an internist. It just doesn't work. And so, I think that I want to give my best attempt at fixing healthcare, at least doing my part in it indirectly by creating this company SoMeDocs, and by fueling individual physicians and their online voices to actually collectively change a big system.

But inherent in branding and putting yourself out there is the fact that you literally can invent yourself or even reinvent yourself. You could go on there as the neurologist that you are and create an IP. I create IP content that revolves around a neurological concept.

Like you want to be a thought leader in headaches, go ahead do that. But you don't have to. If you want to start dabbling in things outside of medicine, the online world is really your oyster right now. You can literally tomorrow, today, this second, get off of the internet, look up the URL of the desired website that you want to own and become a thought leader of, and you can claim ownership of it.

So, if you literally want to dabble in finance, and become the finance guru of physicians, it is not too late. All you have to do is find out if that website is open, is available, claim ownership by paying the company that was smart enough to in advance have either bought that domain or just the companies that own these things and operate them and start creating content.

Now, it's not easy to brand. The first step is claiming ownership, is finding the name for yourself, for the brand and defining the goals of that brand. But afterwards, it might be a long process, but it's definitely doable for physicians. For example, for physicians that are looking for nonclinical careers, there are a lot out there. But you can literally create that nonclinical career yourself by first understanding the concept of branding, deciding where you want to dabble, and then dabbling in it by creating content online.

John: The thing I notice on this is that, if you're an entrepreneur, like my wife owns a business and I've owned different practices, and this whole idea of branding becomes sort of second nature, or if you're building a product or providing some other service. But for physicians, it's like, "Well, I have my brand. I'm going to have my name in the yellow pages. I have a little picture on the website, and I have my name on the bulletin board or on this marquee out front. People know I'm here." So, I guess I'm getting into the how-to, but that's not really quite what you're talking about in terms of branding yourself.

Dr. Dana Corriel: I think that it still holds clout, sufficient clout to do certain things, but I think that the world is changing. I'm not happy about it. I'm very actually sad about it. I think that having earned a medical degree no longer confers the authority that we once had. And that's because of the internet. It's because of social media.

And an easy explanation for that is just look at who is influencing and look at the way that they're influencing. So, you take celebrities and you give them a space where they can market themselves, and it's genius. They get to say what they want, but the second the lines are blurred and they start talking about healthcare, it becomes confusing because they're not healthcare professionals. And so, when they're saying things that are correct, it's one thing, but when they're speaking out incorrectly, then you've got pseudoscience out there and we don't like that happening.

And it's actually becoming real life now that, for example, all the anti-vax sentiment is flowing into the real world and people are actually not vaccinating. And so, again, I think a medical degree is important in real life, but the more we increasingly live online, the less that becomes meaningful. And it's very sad. Basically, the online world sort of equalizes the playing field. And so, we're all sort of equal online because there's no real vetting process. So you've got to stake your claim in it, even as a doctor.

And I think that that's one of the problems here is that as a physician, we've always traditionally been so comfortable in our skin and we've come at it from a place of, "Well, we've earned it." And everyone always just took that for granted and respected us, but we're losing that because of the online world. So we've got to really take control of it and take charge, but also do it cleverly and strategically.

John: I think a lot of us had the feeling that the more letters we had after our name, that was our marketing, that was our branding. As long as I have an extra degree or some certification, that's really going to put me above the others. But it really isn't.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Not any more.

John: The thing I notice is when you start a new business, your marketing plan should be there from the beginning. It has to be part of it. You can't wait till you're six or 12 months into a new business and then decide, okay, now I'm going to do the marketing. It's almost going to start even before you open your doors in some way.

So, let's just touch a little bit on this. We don't have a ton of time, but to move into, if I was a physician and let's focus maybe a little more on the nonclinical career than the clinical, but a little bit of both, what does that really look like when you're saying that I'm branding myself, I'm marketing myself? How is it different from just let's say networking with my colleagues or putting a post on Facebook or something like that?

Dr. Dana Corriel: I think networking is super important. We could talk about that later. SoMeDocs main goal is to have physicians network, but I think that you can't really effectively build a brand without networking. Now, networking serves a much broader purpose in that you can actually link up with people that have an already existing business and you can join them. And so, you take something like an MLM I think they're called, but the businesses that work in that way. And that's for example, where networking can really help and that someone's already defined and discovered something and you're then going to sell it. The difference from that and branding is that they're interrelated. The nice thing about branding is that you can literally create your own space and your own product. Product, again, standing for UP and it can sell itself.

In terms of a nonclinical career, this is a wonderful way to at least define that space in which you're going to create something. Even if it is working for someone else, you at least have your own space. And that's something important to teach physicians, because when I first founded SoMeDocs, the purpose of it for me was that it was going to be done in a way that did not have anyone telling me what to do. I was going to make the rules. And I think to me, that's part of what's broken about with healthcare is that so many people were telling me what to do, that as a physician, it was frustrating. I literally could not treat my patient the way I felt he or she needed to be treated.

And so, in the same similar way, I think that branding is super important because we create our own brand, our own space online. Again, I don't want to go into the medicine part of it, but even within medicine, branding is huge because you can literally work for a hospital today. So, your brand exists within the overarching system, but tomorrow, if you're fired, you could literally pick up your brand and you could put it over here in a different hospital system where you're going to work as well. But all the intellectual property, all the content that you yourself create along the way that you own, it goes with you. So, it doesn't matter at the end of the day who you're working for, you've got a brand online that's stamped out for yourself.

John: And that brand, in a way, it should be authentic, and it should actually represent who you are and what your principles are, what your vision is. Those kinds of things.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Well, yes, it would be great, but actually now that you're asking it, it depends on the angle you're looking at it. It depends. If you are looking to build a product, you would probably strategically go about that in a different way than if you are branding yourself as a human being. The reason I distinguish that is because, for example, if your brand is going to be a physician brand where you're literally sitting behind a white coat and just lecturing on headaches as a neurologist, that's okay, that's a great brand and it's needed out there.

But when you say authentic, you should always be authentic, but you're not necessarily going to chit-chat about, I don't know, taking like a bathroom break. You're still being authentic, but you're certainly being strategic about what you're putting out there. I think that's what's important is we do need to be authentic that we're out there, but you have to also be smart about the things that you're creating.

And so, yeah, that's important to say. But yes, brands like yours and like mine, yes, we should be authentic because we want to earn people's trust. And in order to do that, we do want to be the same both online and when we are attending conferences where we want to speak. You don't want people saying, "Well, she or he was totally different live than they were online." But again, it depends. It's all about strategy and it's about things that I teach and I cover.

John: Well, I'm just thinking about too, where let's say I look at other podcasters have been out there, and so then I started a podcast thinking this was a good idea, but the thing was, I shouldn't probably just try to copy what someone else is doing. Oh, they're successful, so I want to be just like that.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Absolutely not.

John: So, it's like bringing my own self to that brand.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Oh, I'm huge about that. I think that it serves a purpose to look at others. I think that it helps you sort of build foundation. It helps you to just validate that what you're doing works. But there's 100% nothing wrong with being authentic. And I think there's 100% everything right in it. And that's what I'm about, is just being unique and original. And if I listened to the haters and the naysayers and the people that told me 10 years ago when I said this was what I was going to do, if I had listened to them, then I would not be where I was today. I decided to push past it and say, "Well, I'm going to create it." First of all, it absolutely exists.

Even if you don't understand it, that doesn't mean that it won't work. It was something I knew would work because in my head it made sense as the future. And I was like, "I'm going to tap into, and I'm going to literally be a physician in the space that gets it and that builds into the space, a niche that is like a gap." It's like a void that we need to fill. And so I've filled it despite people telling me no, and I've done it uniquely and originally. So yes, I think there is value to looking at other people who have done things before you to pave the way, but it's 100% wonderful to do it your own way authentically.

John: Okay. I think that the people that are watching and listening are going to say, "Okay, some of us are very practical." You've been successful. People are like, "Well, you've come out of nowhere. You're a wonderful writer, you're a wonderful photographer." Can you give specific examples of things that you have done to promote your brand or other people that you've worked with in terms of how they promoted? Maybe they did it differently than you've done it, but I think the people that are watching this will just like to hear examples of practical things too.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Yeah. There are steps along the way. Absolutely. I think what you're talking about is sort of more of the marketing. And so, the sort of implementation of the strategic plan of how to make your brand go viral and be a brand that people want to see, want to hear, want to buy, whatever it is that your endpoint goal is.

And so, again, there's steps to that process. Once you've created your brand, you've decided where you want to go and the goal of that brand, that's where you need to market yourself and find really, really clever ways to get out there and reach the target audience that you're trying to reach and draw them in so that they want to see more Dr. Corriel or they want to be a part of SoMeDocs.

I could literally talk for hours about it. It's so dependent on what you want to do, but I'll just give a quick example in that there are many ways to market yourself nowadays because there are so many apps that meet endpoint users. And so, you take something like Facebook, you take something like Twitter, you take something like Instagram. They each have their demographic audience. And so, first you have to determine that. Then you have to determine how to frame your content in a way that appeals to them, that makes them think, "Well, I want to hear more from her, or I really want to buy her deodorant or her scrubs", or whatever it is that you are trying to get people to do.

With physicians, a lot of times it is thought leadership. And so, we are more cerebral. We want people to follow us as thought leaders. And so, talking about us as intellectual property and about topics that we cover is usually something that really resonates with a physician, but there's tons of physicians out there that are trying to be entrepreneurs. And so, that's a different way of thinking about things as well. Whether it's a service that you sell or it's an actual product that you make. Again, things SoMeDocs would love to bring to light. Me especially, I'm a physician that turned on entrepreneur. Like I said, I stopped clinical medicine and I'm totally exploring entrepreneurship and I am marketing my own brand, Dr. Corriel, just as much as I'm marketing my company SoMeDocs.

John: Well, I think one of the questions that came up on the chat was a question about what are the steps. And I'm taking it, there's probably no real steps the way you're going to do this. I'm just trying to think in my own career, I'm focusing on promoting and supporting physicians looking for nonclinical careers. So it's like, okay, what are the different ways I can do that? How do I present myself in a way? I'm basically doing what a lot of physician coaches do which kind of ties really into what physicians do, which is help people.

Dr. Dana Corriel: For sure.

John: I'm just finding my own way of helping people within the field of this nonclinical career search.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Right.

John: But I bet that would be a very long story to go through what all the steps might be.

Dr. Dana Corriel: It is, it is.

John: You've already touched on it, so maybe you can expound a little bit if someone's thinking of starting something new, how they kind of conceptualize a brand.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Yeah. It is a long, long process, which is again, why at the end of this, we'll put a link down, but which is why I am now starting these what's called Growth Pods. It's a perfect opportunity to say that. A Growth Pod is a virtual sort of space and interactive group that you grow your brand with.

At this point I'm so busy I just can't easily hop on with individual physicians to help them to focus in on their brand because it takes a while to figure that out if you really want to do it the right way. And so, I've created these really small physician groups of 20 at a time, and literally, you can imagine like a pod, almost like a planter. And the physicians are like the seedlings inside. And then myself or at some point a group of physicians, since I will need to bring others in as the demand is high, we will be watering these pods in order to grow the plants each with its own branch.

And that's the beauty of a Growth Pod. And again, I've made up Growth Pod, it's almost like a cross between a masterclass and an incubator. And so, you water the plant by starting to ask the questions that are necessary for you to figure out, "Well, what am I doing or where do I want to go with my brand?" And there's a lot of questions in between that you need to figure out before you realize the direction in which you're taking it.

It took me a really long time. This is not something that happens overnight, but it certainly helps to have somebody from the outside who has done it and done it successfully to ask you the questions that you need to get thinking and especially thinking outside the box. Because again, you could do it the way others have done it, but what's really going to stand out is if you do it differently.

And if you think about it, think of, for example, drinks, like water. You could sell water, but when you have the bottles just sitting there, something's got to differentiate your bottle from the other bottles. I saw this somewhere in an imagery in an article. You have Perrier. It's like the classy water. And that's what you think about when you want to drink Perrier. And then you've got VOSS. VOSS is that long bottle, the expensive bottle, and it's like glass. Then you've got the new recyclable ones made of paper or whatever. You know what I'm talking about? JUST Water, it's called. I know the guy, he's the CEO. But JUST Water. That's got to shtick too. You want to help the environment.

Again, your brand's got to be different than the other brands. It's not enough to say "I'm a podcaster." John Jurica has got to be the podcaster that everyone listens to, but you've got to figure out what it is about you that makes you super cool and that makes you someone that people want to listen to. And that's going to market, that's going to market you and your brand.

John: Well, I'm a big fan of mastermind groups and accountability partners, coaches, mentors, nurturing. We can be sitting in our silo trying to figure out what our brand should be and come up with these ideas. But really, is this an opportunity with the Growth Pod for people to kind of bounce ideas and to share and get your feedback? How is that going to work?

Dr. Dana Corriel: Yeah, absolutely. The first one that I'm launching is just me, teaching it and holding it. And so, what I've done until now is just personally gotten on calls with physicians and connected and helped people grow. But at this point I think that a small group setting is much more valuable because it's me at the helm. I'm there to toss out the questions and to teach, but at the end of the day, it adds value that there are 19 other physicians with you helping you to grow. First of all, because you grow together. Secondly, because you bounce ideas off of each other. Thirdly, because I always say this is that I am an N equals 1. I am not the end all be all. I have my own ideas, but we have so much value in networking.

And so, the pot allows you to not only network, do it together, do it in a supportive, collaborative way, just like SoMeDocs stands for, but then also make it super exciting so that if the pod is successful for you, you could actually take another one. Whether it's the same one because no two pods are going to be the same or take one that's completely different because I have some in the works and I know John knows about that. That is going to help us nurture in more ways than just branding and understanding the different outlets in which we can market our brand.

John: Can you tell us a little bit about how that is going to happen? Is it telephone calls? Is it face-to-face? Is it online? Is it written?

Dr. Dana Corriel: The first one is launching soon. And it's going to be a combination of a group interaction at your own disposal. The nice thing about this is it's going to last four weeks at a time each pod. You as the guest, you are going to check in whenever you want, whenever you have time, which is why this is going to work. You could literally be sitting at the comfort of your own home between breaks or after dinner when the kids go to sleep and you could do your work.

And it's not going to be work. The whole point is that a lot of it is extreme fun. And that's the nice thing about it. It's almost like attending a really high value conference, but you're doing it virtually. You're doing it online. And so, I'm excited.

John: Excellent. So, how do we find out more about that? What's the quickest way? I know we can go to drcorriel.com.

Dr. Dana Corriel: drcorriel.com is my own brand. I focus less on that. I do talk about my experience as a growing entrepreneur and talk a little bit about SoMeDocs, but you could go to somedocs.com or doctorsonsocialmedia.com. And first of all, there's membership options, which are awesome because once you've got your brand, or even if you don't, there's so many perks to signing up. It's all listed there. It would be too many for me to say, but you also actually get a discount for the Growth Pod and the Growth Pod is there. It's under the resources which I'm actually actively and slowly growing in terms of just quality resources for physicians to exist as brands and to use the online spaces that are out there.

John: There is another question since we still have some time here to talk about how social media fits in and how to best use them. And before you answer the question, the thing I've heard many people say is don't do everything at once. But beyond that, what do you think about Facebook and LinkedIn and IG and all that?

Dr. Dana Corriel: They're extremely valuable. So, what do I think? I don't like them. I think they're terrible actually, and a danger for our youth. But what am I going to do? It's here. It's here to stay. It's a double-edged sword. Let's find the right edge of the sword and let's stay on it as smart healthcare professionals and let's start to leverage it. Let's start to fight with, let's start to use it as a weapon in our favor. And so let's speak out with evidence-based medical truths. Let's make our brands work. And 100% social media is going to help you to achieve that. Why? Simple. Because everyone's on it.

And so, that's sort of like the 101 of marketing. It's like you want to go where people are. If you think about the way that media has always been, the top magazines and newspapers work really well because they've got a large following in a large audience. Essentially you can do that on social media. It doesn't have to be a personal thing. And that's what scares doctors is "I don't want to put me out there." You don't have to. And that's where we go back to that, you are not being authentic, but sometimes you have to really strategically choose what you want to share with the world.

And so, I'm extremely present online. My SoMeDocs is now my number one thing. That doesn't mean that I'm going to tell people everything about the way I live or every little secret of mine. Absolutely not. In fact, I encourage people not to give away everything in your personal lives because we've all read, we don't really need to read it. We know that the online is also a source of a lot of depression and things like that because you're going to throw stuff out there to strangers.

John: You got to be careful.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Yeah. The people that really matter are your family, the people in real life. Of course, the people out there matter as well. To me, for sure. But in terms of putting yourself out there, you've got to be strategic about what you do, in a good way. You got to be strategic about spreading evidence-based medicine. At the end of the day, this is what I'm trying to do with SoMeDocs.

John: Well, yeah, and it seems like every type of social media has certain pros and cons, good for one thing, not good for another and one is better than the other. There's a question about how you might use or how you network on LinkedIn, do you use LinkedIn to network. I have a bunch of followers or connections on LinkedIn, but in terms of networking with them, I have my own approach to it, but do you have any thoughts or feelings about using LinkedIn as one of those sites?

Dr. Dana Corriel: I don't want to say every, because there are so many apps out there when I go to conferences to teach and I show the graphic of just how many social media platforms there are, it boggles the mind. But I really do know how to very efficiently use most of the major social media platforms. I've done that on purpose. I've taken my time and been patient about learning to do a dabbling in it. And so, now I really know how to use them. Absolutely. I use LinkedIn.

The key is to really leverage it to what you are trying to achieve and to re-angle it in a way that fits your purpose and your cause. And so, that's the key to really being a successful brand and to marketing it, it's just finding that unique angle. And that's again, where you need, I don't like to call it a coach, but where you need something like a Growth Pod where your hand is held to some degree by someone who's either done it before or is really good at it and can think outside the box.

John: Okay. Yeah. It's going to be very specific to what you're doing.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Yeah.

John: I would say though, in general, when I have connections on LinkedIn and I reach out, they usually respond. And you go from there. If you've made a connection and you've got something that might help them, to me it's always about helping them first and then you develop that rapport.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Absolutely. It's always about that. At the end of the day, if you're going to be successful, you've got to realize that the person on the other end has got something that they want. And there's something so negative for some reason in our society about everybody sort of wanting something. It's like we shouldn't ever want. And yet everyone always wants everything you do has an endpoint goal. Even when you are, for example, donating something. You're wanting to feel good by donating. And so, at the end of the day, we're always getting something for what we do. To approach an interaction, especially a business interaction, in which you think of the other person first and see where it fits into your goals is extremely clever in terms of entrepreneurship, in my opinion.

John: Well, I like what you said earlier too about, as we're making these connections, it's really about collaborating and trying to develop this kind of little mini partnerships with people and whatever it's doing.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Always.

John: And you may not work closely with somebody, but a year from now, there may be some time when your path crosses.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Oh, absolutely. It's funny you say that because everyone's got naysayers. I don't necessarily see them. I think I've been fairly positive. I've had a lot of support, but I know that they're out there. At the end of the day, as an entrepreneur, something that really helps me succeed is just being respectful of everyone, regardless of how they act. That doesn't mean I'm always happy with the way people act, but you've got to always respect your fellow entrepreneurs because down the line they may be acting different. So, you've got to just be nice, respect.

John: I was reading a book recently, I won't even say what it was, but he was a speaker. One of the things this person did was a speaker and he was trying to figure out how people got the most speaking gigs. And he said it turned out the guys and women that got the most gigs were the ones who were nicest to the people that were planning the meetings. They didn't like working with jerks and they would work with people that are nice and that want to collaborate. And it was a pleasant experience. So yeah, that always goes a long way.

Dr. Dana Corriel: Totally.

John: All right. I think we've discussed this for a while. Do you want to go ahead and give some more information and any last comments in terms of what you're doing with the pods and where people should go to find you and other last bits of advice?

Dr. Dana Corriel: Yeah. First of all, I think there's a lot. If you actually enjoy this conversation, there's so much more where this came from. I am 100% of an idea person and every day, no joke, I get hundreds of ideas. And I try to really just all put them together in content pieces and put them out there, whether they're written or images.

I also try to do that with doctors because I realized that that was something I was talented in. And that's what SoMeDocs is for, is to help with networking and to also help with actual content creation. So if you like the way that I do it, that's how SoMeDocs work. We take your content and we put it out there for you. And we serve as a platform by which you can bounce your ideas off of, both in a physician only setting in a Facebook group and in public.

And in terms of opportunities, with SoMeDocs, there's a free platform. I'm always going to keep that free. But then there's paid options, like membership, it's very affordable.

John: I think we hit most of the questions here.

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The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post Top Insider Tips on Branding and Social Media for Clinicians appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

In today's podcast, Robin Landa describes how to unlock your creative potential and find great ideas worth pursuing.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

The book will be launched in November and it is currently available for pre-order on Robin's website, Amazon, and other booksellers. Additionally, it can be found online at Berrett-Koehler and Penguin Random House. 

Unleash Creative Potential with the 3 G's: Goal, Gap, and Gain

Since Alex Osborn introduced brainstorming in 1953, Robin's method is the first fresh approach to enhancing one's creative potential to develop new ideas. Her method for problem-solving and foreseeing issues involves the “Three Gs.”

Many concepts are fanciful and only concerned with profit or novelty. The “Three G's” in her method ensure that the concept is valuable and not frivolous. The first “G” is Goal.

People wrongly believe that once you develop a good idea that you're finished. But that is only the beginning, according to Robin. That is the result you seek. The Gap is then extremely important in determining how an idea may actually meet a need.

The final “G” stands for Gain, which denotes that there must be a benefit to society, the environment, and/or living things.

Robin Landa's Encouragement

I think anybody can come up with a worthwhile idea. It's not the person, it's the system you're using. So that if the process you're using isn't helping you, try the three G's, try goal, gap and gain. It's proven to work…

Summary

Being receptive and observant is what Robin dubbed “golden habits to form,” and they are necessary to unleash creative potential. Whether in design or developing a new business, the “Three G's” can be effective.

The goal of the book, “The New Art of Ideas: Unlock Your Creative Potential” is to enable readers to apply Robin's framework.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Robin Landa's Website
• Robin Landa's New Book: The New Art of Ideas: Unlock Your Creative Potential [Amazon Affiliate link]
• How to Validate Your Business Idea
• How to Select the Best Online Business Niche – 110
• NewScr!pt

Download This Episode:

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Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 263

How to Unlock Your Creative Potential as a Physician

- Interview with Robin Landa

John: I'm really looking forward to have today's guest with us, because number one, I like book authors, and I think it's really important for you listeners to be able to come up with creative ideas, particularly creative ideas that are worth pursuing. That's the second half of that equation. Our guest today definitely can tell us all about that. So hello, Robin Landa.

Robin Landa: Hi, Dr. Jurica. I'm honored to be here with you. Thank you for having me as a guest.

John: I'm really happy to talk to you today. You have a book coming out soon, which is really the main core of what we're going to talk about, but I will mention, as I did in the intro that you're a professor and you talk and teach about branding and just being creative, how to come up with ideas, design, other things in marketing. So, I think there's a lot we can learn from you. So, why don't you tell us a little bit about your background in addition to that, and then we'll get started with my grilling.

Robin Landa: Thank you so much. I'm a Distinguished Professor at Kean University in the Michael Graves College. I'm a designer and I started out as an artist and then segued into being a designer and then switched over to being an author. And that's pretty much what I do when I'm not teaching. I'm the author of 25 published non-fiction books by esteemed publishers like Berrett-Koehler and Simon & Schuster. And I'm very, very interested in diversity equity inclusion in making sure my students do well in the industries and making sure that they are at the top of their game when they leave our program. And that's where my intense interest in creative thinking comes in.

John: Well, the name of the book, since we've mentioned it already is "The New Art of Ideas: Unlock Your Creative Potential." And we're going to get into that. But the thing that kind of struck me when I was looking at that, and this is a quote, "How to get great ideas worth pursuing?" So how to get the ideas and then kind of show or at least have an assumption or a belief that they're worth pursuing. So, how do you identify an idea that's worth pursuing? Is there a secret to that? I mean, once you've come up with the idea.

Robin Landa: Yes. I'll talk to you about coming up with the idea as well. But to answer your question directly, for me, there has to be more than just making a profit from an idea. There has to be what people refer to as the triple bottom line: profit, people and the planet. And so, I only see ideas that are worthwhile as those that have some benefit for individual society, the environment creatures, our planet.

John: Okay. Yeah. And I think maybe we'll get into that as we get into the Three G's. So, why don't you just take us through a description of the Three G's and maybe intertwine even the ideas about why you decided to write a book about this topic as you go along.

Robin Landa: The Three G's that you're mentioning are my process. And my new process is the first new creative process since brainstorming was introduced by Osborne in 1953. And what's really, I think, very good about my process is that it's actionable. And there are three components, as you said, the Three G's. There's a goal, the gap and a game.

And many people mistakenly think that a goal is your idea, but that's just the beginning. That's what you want to achieve. And then the gap is really crucial. And I think your audience will really understand this in a way that many other audiences that I've spoken to don't because they are physicians and scientists, and they really understand that there are missing pieces in research. There are questions that haven't been answered. There are neglected diseases. There are endemic problems that we haven't addressed.

So, thinking about a gap, whether it's a product or service, a mediated mechanism for delivering vaccines. We all know that wonderful breakthrough saved so many people by Dr. Katie Kariko and Dr. Weisman. That was a gap, right? We weren't using messenger RNA to deliver as a mediated mechanism. And so, they came up with that, against the star chamber, I should mention. The gap is crucial in really identifying how an idea can fulfill a need.

And then the third G is the gain. And I can tell you how I came to that, which is an interesting story. But for me, the game means that there has to be a benefit for, as I said earlier, individual society, the planet, the environment creatures. And so, those three G's really ensure that your idea is worthwhile and not frivolous. Because many ideas are frivolous and they're just about profit or novelty and I'm not interested in it.

John: Okay. Well, let's see. Maybe we should go back through each one and get a little deeper if we can. I remember people that I've interviewed, for example, I had a urologist I interviewed. She was working clinically, but she had a side gig. And the thing that she came up with is that her patients, her younger women that had, let's say urinary problems didn't have stylish undergarments they could wear. So, she actually created a line. That was just such an aha moment for her. It just drove her. She had never intended to even go into business on the side. She just had, which she was solving a problem. Is there a way to stimulate those kinds of ideas? I don't know, that I guess would fall into the gap perhaps, but maybe just in your model, maybe talk to me how things like that might fit in and if someone's thinking about trying to solve a problem.

Robin Landa: That's an excellent example, by the way. I should have put that in my book. I wish I had spoken to you sooner. That's what I would call a pain point.

John: Okay.

Robin Landa: If you notice a pain point, whether something like that, or he noticed that his wife had arthritis, was having difficulty using normal utensils and tools to open jars. And he realized that that's a pain point that he wanted to solve with his company. So, pain points are definitely an entry into a gap, into as you said, solving a problem.

And so, you can use my method, my process to solve a problem. And you can also use it to anticipate problems, to think ahead and wonder and notice, ask questions. Like, is there a more sustainable method? Is there a way to address a crisis before it's urgent? Well, I guess a crisis is urgent, but how do we address it when there's a hurricane, is there a way we can figure out how to create temporary shelters before it actually hits? So rather than in the moment where we're thinking about it ahead of time.

Pain points, as you mentioned, are a fantastic way. Kat Nouri was in the kitchen making lunch for her three children, and she was putting the sandwiches in disposable plastic bags, and she thought, "Boy, this is really wasteful. This creates toxic waste. Is there a way to create something that is reusable baggage? And she invented Stasher which SC Johnson bought from her. So, there is a moment where you think about what you're doing and how do you solve this problem.

John: Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. I guess maybe it's not before the second step, it's just the way it happens to be modeled, but the goal is more of an overarching, like kind of are you working in this field? Is it a medical issue? How would you describe the goal?

Robin Landa: Well, the goal can be anything. The goal can be very general. For example, an attorney, a friend of mine, and this is kind of like your audience, decided that law wasn't for her anymore. She went into it as a very pragmatic decision in life. And so, she took a very early retirement and she wanted to explore creative venues because she's a very creative person.

Her goal was very general, to explore a different creative track. She became a docent at a museum and then became the head of the docents. She took dance classes. She expressed herself by wearing very fashionable clothing. And somebody on the street in New York City stopped her and said, "May I take your photograph?" Well, now she's a fashion influencer at the age of 50 plus. She had this very general goal of being more creative, leaving her attorney job and doing that.

So, the goal can be general or it can be very specific. I want to create a brand of underwear that is more aesthetically pleasing. You can come to that goal in a specific way or in a very general way or through a passion. Many people come to a goal through something that they really love to do.

John: Okay. And then in terms of the gain, perhaps you have two or three ideas, but then you kind of vet those ideas in terms of how many people or how the environment or how something else is going to benefit from that particular idea.

Robin Landa: Exactly. It's a way of vetting it. And to me, that is really important. I came to that in a couple of ways. One main way is just understanding people, that people want something. We all want something. But by teaching advertising, we always think about the audience and what's in it for the audience. So, when you're watching a commercial, "What's in it for me?" That's the question. And so, we always tailor our advertising solutions to creating either a practical benefit, meaning something very functional, like this hair color will cover your gray hair or something emotional like you'll feel younger and feel better because of this hair color.

So, we're always thinking about benefits. When I thought, well, it's human nature to want something, but it's also in my opinion to want to make sure that the planet is okay, that we're thinking about sustainability, that we're thinking about other people, that we're thinking about underserved populations, neglected diseases, questions that haven't been asked or explored, the new James Webb telescope out there, thinking about things that we haven't answered yet. So, there's so many paths to take.

John: All right. I think that's a good model. It's a good way to look at things, step back and really look at it from all those different perspectives. Is there any secret to unlocking creative potential? Because that has to be part of this process. I know that's what people complain about. Like "I just don't have any good ideas" or "I don't know how to come up with an idea." How does one unlock that?

Robin Landa: Yes. I teach this. There are really many behavioral things that you can do. And what I call golden habits to form. One is to be observant and to really notice things. So, if you listen to really good comedians, observational comedians, they notice things that other people might miss and they turn them into humor. Velcro came because he was walking in the woods with his dog and noticed that burs were sticking to his clothing, right? So, we notice things. Or the famous story of penicillin. Being observant is crucial to being creative. And children are very observant and we kind of lose that as adults. And one characteristic that I've noticed in myself is that I notice everything. And it can be very fruitful. It can create a fertile mindset.

The other habits to forum are being receptive. And that's kind of being open to possibilities, open to potential, open to other people's points of view. And I'm not saying to listen to the ramblings of ignorant people, but if you present an idea to me and let's say it's MRNA and I'm like, "Well, no, we don't use that to deliver vaccines."

I should listen and I don't necessarily have to move forward on it, but I should be open to your educated point of view, because it really expands one's thinking. And being a mindful listener. The characteristic of great leaders is that they not only tell stories, but they are good story listeners. They really listen and listen very carefully. And I've developed that as a professor. I have to listen very carefully to my students to understand and to empathize. And then being resilient, of course, you know as a scientist that you don't go into an experiment knowing the outcome. You go in and things fail because we don't know the outcome. We're in there to figure it out, an experiment. So, you have to be resilient. And then there are other things that I can go on about, if you'd like.

John: Well, let me just observe that especially when you're talking about being receptive. It's so common when you're just having a conversation or talking about an idea that the first thing the person's thinking about is how to respond and how to argue with your thoughts. But you're right. It takes either a lot of practice or really thinking like, "Okay, I'm not going to respond. I'm going to keep my mouth shut. I'm going to listen to this idea and really try and get to it and maybe ask more questions."

I'm reminded of, I was leading a mastermind group and the core thing about that is don't jump in with solutions, just ask more questions and then you can get to the core of what the real issue is. And then there is probably some logic to it. And particularly when you're trying to be creative. So, I really like that reminder. How about one more?

Robin Landa: One more. Well, let me just say that you're a terrific listener and that's one of the reasons your podcast is so successful. So, you've put that into practice. And I think what you do is develop dialogue rather than debate. And that's a secret. That's a golden habit. I'll give you one more.

John: Okay.

Robin Landa: There are two questions you can always ask that really pose possibilities and they are questions that a lot of science fiction writers pose. And that is "What if?" What if we had a digital twin of you who would live on and carry all your memories and all your knowledge? What if we could be a fly on the wall and nobody would notice us? All these possibilities that we see and wonderful ideas that you see in science fiction films. "What if" is a wonderful, wonderful question to really get the creative juices going.And then the other one is "If only." And it's not about regrets, but again, it's about possibilities. If only I could fly, if only I had aesthetically pleasing underwear, if I had a urinary problem, right?

John: Right.

Robin Landa: Those two questions really let you get out of your own realm of experience and into alternate possibilities.

John: Yeah. I'm assuming that there are conditions that exist that make it easier to go through this process and be creative. And I think one of the things I was going to ask you about was diversity and inclusion and how that actually enhances this process.

Robin Landa: Yes. I think it's crucial to get multiple perspectives and you really need to have a diverse and inclusive group of people to do that. And multiple perspectives really broaden the thinking. And diversity equity inclusion also goes against groupthink, right? We want to avoid groupthink where it's a kind of forced thinking about people with the same values and the same background and the same attitude. So, I think that really great ideas are amplified when you get multiple perspectives from different people. And it also becomes more inclusive. You're really thinking about a broader audience.

John: Absolutely. When you were talking about that, all of a sudden it hit me. I was a chief medical officer for a hospital for a while, about 14 years. And we would have these strategic planning sessions. And the thing was, what the CEO did, that was great. He made sure everybody was included in the conversation. And we had people in that group, it was about 10 people in the senior team. Some were introverts, some were extroverts. Some were older, some were newbies. Some were different backgrounds, where they grew up and different experiences. And really the organization always came out the best when we had everybody's input and could try and kind of put it together and people would come up with would seem like the oddest suggestions or the most out there. And they turned out to be the best solution for that particular problem.

Robin Landa: And that's where being open comes in because they could have been shut down.

John: Exactly.

Robin Landa: So, you were a great leader in that case by getting everybody to listen and not shut down the discussion. That's a great rule of improv. The yes-end. You say yes and you move on it.

John: No buts, only ands. So, you keep things moving, the conversation is going and come up with more ideas.

Robin Landa: Yes.

John: Well, okay. We're going to pause for a minute because I sometimes wait till the very, very end to talk about my guest products, book in this case. So, tell us how the book is laid out and maybe even a little bit about how you wrote it. I'm always interested in hearing about authors like the process they go through. I mean, you've done so many it would be interesting to hear your advice for fledgling non-fiction authors.

Robin Landa: Well, I can give you an hour or more of that on what to do.

John: I'm sure.

Robin Landa: This book is really very, very close to my heart. I got to work with an extraordinary editor, Steve Piersanti, who is the founder of Berrett-Koehler. And he really pulled out of me I think the best that I could give. I really wanted to make sure that people understood how to use my framework, my system, whatever you want to call it, the process to get to what they need, to get the best results. I tried to get them to understand the process and then gave many, many examples from different disciplines, because this really could be used in any discipline. I came to it through my own, but it really can be used across the board. I gave an example of Lin-Manuel Miranda's Hamilton. If you reverse engineer a lot of great ideas, you can see how my framework comes into play. But I'll give your listeners a clue, a tip, a big tip about writing non-fiction. Most people don't read beyond the first chapter.

John: I could believe that. I'm kind of so OCD, I will go through almost any book I start, but I agree. Okay. So, what's the solution for that?

Robin Landa: The solution for that is then in a non-fiction book, you have to lay out your entire premise in the first chapter.

John: Oh, okay.

Robin Landa: You have to give it all to them in the first chapter. And then the other chapters go on to explain different aspects of it, but everything is laid out in that first chapter. And if your listeners do want to think about writing a book, they really need to do a fantastic proposal because your book proposal at this point in time is really a marketing pitch. Not only is it about the content, but you've got to pitch it to that acquiring editor that they're called the commissioning editor in England, and a senior editor here, an acquisitions editor. Different titles, same person. That person is the first gatekeeper. But beyond that person, if that person says yes, it's got to go to the editorial board and the marketing team. So, it's got to be part marketing pitch.

John: Yeah. And that's one place where physicians are not that good at marketing and selling themselves. It's amazing. They're obviously interacting with the public constantly, but they kind of have this thing about selling themselves. But basically, that's just sort of letting people know that you're there to help and you have skills that they might need.

Robin Landa: Absolutely. And it's even difficult for me coming out of it because it's about yourself. I can advertise a brand or a product or you, but about myself, it becomes all of a sudden more modest. And so, I've had friends read my bio and say, "Really? That's all you're going to say about yourself? You've forgotten, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." But a non-fiction book proposal at this point in time is heavily part marketing pitch. You have to let editors know what makes your book special and why you are the right person to write this book.

John: That's a good point. Yeah. I hadn't thought of it and never put it that way. So, tell us what's the best way to get your book? It's in pre-order status now, right? Because it's coming out in November and this will be released basically in early September. So, we have a little bit of time, but we can pre-order it. So, what's the best way to do that?

Robin Landa: You can go to any of your book sellers, you can go to my website, which will take you to a bookseller. It's really all over the place at this point. It's on the Penguin Random House website. It's on the Berrett-Koehler website, it's on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, but I would like your listeners to know that right now, anybody who buys the book, whatever money I get, I'm giving to the red cross for Ukraine for humanitarian relief. And once the book goes into regular sales, once it's published, I give 80% of my money to scholarship funds for students in need.

John: Very nice. Yeah. That also was very encouraging when you're purchasing something like this. That's another reason to buy it. You're doing some good through that process as well as learning something. So that's fantastic. The website is www.robinlanda.com. So that's there, you can find a place to buy the book there. I will put links of course in my show notes and make it simple.

All right. Any last words? I guess it would be more of encouragement for my listeners, what they might get out of the book and in general, how it might help them in terms of looking for a new career or a side business or something like that.

Robin Landa: Yes. I think anybody can come up with a worthwhile idea. It's not the person, it's the system you're using. So that if the process you're using isn't helping you, try the three G's, try goal, gap and gain. It's proven to work. I taught thousands of people to use it and they're all gainfully employed and have terrific hustles and side hustles and jobs. So, it's not you, it's the system you're using. You can do it.

John: It's amazing how these things that seem to be ephemeral or "Oh, I just have to think." There are systems, there are protocols or formulas you can use. And lo and behold, they actually work once you implement them the way they can be.

All right. This has been so much fun. I'm definitely on the list to pre-order the book because I could use some help with being creative. So, Robin, thank you so much for being here today and hopefully I'll contact you when you get your next book out as well.

Robin Landa: Thank you so much, doctor. I'm honored to be with you.

John: Okay. You're welcome. It's been my pleasure. Take care.

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Disclaimers:

Many of the links that I refer you to are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you.

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post How to Unlock Your Creative Potential as a Physician – 263 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

In today’s interview, I interview Omar Khateeb, the Head of Growth at Gentem, about how to save private practice using persuasive branding and marketing. 

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete. 

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Branding and Marketing Can Save Private Practice

Omar has been involved with the branding and marketing of healthcare companies since leaving medical school in 2012. He is also an entrepreneur, and one of the few people I know that completed Seth Godin’s altMBA program.

Aside from his foray into a nonmedical start-up, all of his marketing jobs have been with healthcare companies. Now he is working for a physician CEO and applying these skills to growing that business. But he joins us today to discuss how marketing can be applied to promoting small medical practices.

Knowledge of Business Principles

Omar is not a physician, but he definitely thinks like a physician in many ways and has been around physicians a lot. The CEO who founded Gentem, where he works now as Head of Growth, is a physician, as is his father. 

I think it should be pretty evident today that small practice owners must compete with the bigger systems. But it takes a working knowledge of business principles, including marketing. I enjoyed getting some of those issues clarified by Omar during our conversation. 

Maintaining a Competitive Advantage

We also spent a few minutes discussing Gentem. The company is using AI to improve billing and collections. And it has added a unique program that physicians in small practices may find helpful.

Once engaged, Gentem can use knowledge of a practice's projected revenues and earnings to provide short-term loans to physicians at lower rates and with less paperwork than through a typical bank loan department. Between the enhanced billing and the ability to access cash when needed, this physician-run company will definitely contribute to efforts to save private practice.

Free Webinar

Between recording this interview, and posting it, I provided a free webinar for Gentem's customers. It was an updated version of my lecture on the Top Nonclinical Jobs for Physicians. There is a link to the replay below.

Summary

If you’re in that situation, you should check out Gentem.com. When I was looking over the site I saw that they were offering an assessment and the first month of services for free. It’s worth taking a look if you are part of a small group or run your own practice that does its own billing or pays the usual 7 to 8% of claims.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode that you can download or read.

Links for Today's Episode:

• Gentem Website
• Omar Khateeb's LinkedIn Profile
• For a free demo/billing assessment courtesy of Gentem click here 
• Replay of Life Outside Medicine: Top Nonclinical Careers for Physicians

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription - PNC Episode 194

How Persuasive Branding and Marketing Can Save Private Practice

Interview with Omar Khateeb

John: My guest today is not a physician, but he definitely thinks like a physician in many ways. And he's been around a lot of physicians, from the CEO who founded Gentem Health, where he works as head of growth to the previous health care companies that he's worked for, to his stint in medical school, which we'll get into. So, this should be pretty interesting. Omar Khateeb, welcome to the PNC podcast.

Omar Khateeb: Dr. Jurica, it's very, very good to be here. It's an honor. Thank you for having me on. I was looking forward to it. Happy Monday.

John: Yeah. It's not a bad Monday where I am, the weather's good. And I'm just looking forward to having a great conversation.

Omar Khateeb: Same here. Same here.

John: Okay. So, what we usually do, you're going to have to give us the background and get a little bit into how you happened to start medical school and decide not to finish it, what drove you to make that change and then what you've been doing since then, and we'll go from there.

Omar Khateeb: Yeah, sure. Sure thing. So yeah, just a little bit of backstory on me, and I'll be concise with this. I was born and raised in El Paso, Texas, son of immigrants. My father is a surgeon from Iraq, my mother is anatomy professor from Turkey. So, I grew up in the US Mexican Border in El Paso, went to college at University of Texas El Paso and studied biology and chemistry. And like every pre-med, that's what I did, but unlike most premeds I actually stuck to it because I think everybody was pre-med at some point in college but I actually continued, I did a lot of research, did some work at Johns Hopkins. And I went on to medical school at Texas Tech University.

And after my first year there, I think I was very unhappy and I think my intuition was kind of telling me that I was in the wrong place. But you put so much time, blood, sweat, and tears to get in that I really ignored that. And so, I ended up having to repeat my first year, got through it, got to my second year, and I was feeling the same way. And I'll never forget that I sat down to speak to my father, a general surgeon. I'm a firstborn and his son, and I told him, I said "You know dad, I'm really unhappy. And I can see myself doing other things, but I don't know". And I just talked to him, like I wasn't telling him I was going to leave. I just didn't know what to do.

And I'll never forget, he looked at me, he said: "It's not going to get any easier. And if you can see yourself doing other things and you're not happy and you want to leave, I fully support you". And so that really meant a lot. And so I ended up leaving medical school, fortunately with no debt. I was lucky enough to have an academic scholarship, which was great. And so then after leaving, this was back in 2011, 2012 I didn't know what to do with myself. I almost had an identity crisis because since I was a kid, I was like, "I'm gonna be a doctor and be a surgeon", blah, blah, blah, et cetera. And I leave, I have no identity now.

And so, the logical thing was like, I have this knowledge in medicine, and I seem to like sales and marketing. I was marketing manager for The Princeton Review when I was in college. So, I was like let me try and get into med devices, try to get in. And recruiters, people told me like, "Oh, you have no background. You have no sales experience. You're going to have to start off selling band-aids" or something. And I just didn't believe that. And luckily enough, there was a little, surgical robotics company, which back at the time still is, but back then, to get into robotics was like the pinnacle of med devices. It's very, very, complicated and very competitive to get in. And it's a little Israeli company called Mazor Robotics. And the first robotic spine and neurosurgical company in the world was about 30 people. Two of which were med school dropouts like me.

So, they took a chance on me and I was fortunate enough to get in. I was mentored by some greats in our industry, Christopher Prentice, who was eventually the CEO of the U.S. division. Now he's CEO at Harmonic Bionics, Krista Purcell who's my late mentor who unfortunately passed away a year ago. Tim Moraski. So just absolute greats in our industry.

And I started in sales and they noticed that I seem to be talented in marketing. And after some convincing, they got me to take on the U.S. marketing role. And I really never looked back since, so I've done marketing in surgical robotics. I went to aesthetics. I did robotics, surgical robotics is there as well. I launched a fashion inventions company on the side through Kickstarter called PS Mister. It's still functioning today.

I got very much into content creation, videos, podcasting, writing articles back in 2014. I went over to Potrero and I became the first head of growth in the medical device industry. And then recently I took over as head of growth at Gentem Health, which stands for revival. And what Genten is, it's a Silicon Valley-based company that's developing a SAS platform. It is founded by a physician, Dr. Fisayo Ositelu who's a Stanford-educated physician and a former Facebook software engineer, Manny Akintayo.

And essentially what we're building or what we've built is a platform that helps simplify, accelerated, increased reimbursements for private medical practice. So, you never have to worry about it again. It's something my father struggled with at some point. And our biggest thing is if we use data and techniques such as machine learning, and later on AI to help maximize the amount that a physician is paid through reimbursement and accelerate that, then they have a chance to actually keep their practice to stay independent.

In my humble opinion, that's where the best medicine is delivered. It's not delivered in these large corporations where essentially they're run by business people and like any business people, I don't fault them. They're trying to maximize profit and minimize costs. So less time with patients, less resources, et cetera. And Gentem really focused on helping these private medical practices thrive and for providers to stay independent, to keep their practices.

John: Oh, that sounds awesome. I want to comment on a couple of things. First is going back to your decision and not really letting anything hold you back in terms of who you're going to try to find a job with, because I get a lot of listeners who email me or contact me one way or the other. And they feel like, "Well, I can't do this. I don't have the experience. No one's going to hire me. And I'm just frustrated. I want to get out of medicine". I tell them there are so many times I've heard someone tell me a story similar to yours in medicine, a nonclinical career. It's like, they just talked to an old classmate or they got introduced to somebody or they were networking. And they're like, "Yeah, you have the transferable skills I need, I'll hire you for this job".

So, people just go into it with the fear and then the lack of confidence. So, I think it was just what you said, it matches that, it's the same exact thing. Don't let anything hold you back. If you think it's worth shooting for it, you may be surprised.

Now, as far as the company you're working for, that was one of the things that intrigued me about having you on the show today. And I think we'll get back to that at the end because while this podcast typically is about nonclinical careers, I certainly support physicians. And there are many listeners I believe who are still in private practice. And they're doing that as their alternative to the corporate practice of medicine.

The burnout usually comes from being the hamster on the wheel in a big corporation that really doesn't care about you. And so, I think that we're going to get an increase in private practice and different formats, some of which would or would not be appropriate for, let's say help from Gentem. Like some of the concierge types of practices might not be because they're not really billing people. But let's talk about that at the end, because I think some of our listeners would be very interested in that.

But now I want to pick your brain about these terms that you've thrown out. You said something about sales, and then you said, "But then I shifted to marketing" and I'm thinking, "Well, isn't sales part of marketing?" And then you and I had talked beforehand about branding. So, I need the thumbnail sketch for our listeners, particularly the private people still in full or part-time practice in terms of how we should look at that whole bucket of marketing sales, branding, and so forth.

Omar Khateeb: Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. And I think it's important because of the ability to delineate and understand the differences between those two, those very various terms. So, I'm going to put it back on. This is like choosing your own adventure. So, which one of those would you like me to start off with first?

John: Let's talk about marketing first.

Omar Khateeb: Okay. So, marketing means a lot of different things. And back 50, 60 years ago, marketing used to be sort of a sub-department of sales until it's separated off. And what I would say is, I was in sales first because I liked the one-to-one communication. I like the persuasion, et cetera. But at some point, I got very bored. Salespeople are going to get ticked off but I'm going to say this. A lot of sales it's kind of the same thing. A lot of it is persistence, timing, et cetera. And because I was a student and I still am a student of persuasion, I wanted to do that at a mass scale. And so, that starts introducing you to more strategy. And that involves also the future in terms of how we develop products, et cetera. And that's what kind of took me into marketing. So, I'm a sales guy that happened to go into marketing because I liked the sort of high-level strategy. I liked dealing with products, et cetera.

Now there's a big difference between marketing and branding. Branding is just another way of saying reputation, right? Whether you like it or not, you and I, we have our own reputation. We have a brand. It's the same thing with companies. And the best way to think about it is just like a reputation when it comes to your brand, what do people say about you when you're not in the room? Did they say that you have a great product? Did they say that your product is okay, but it's the cheapest? Did they say that your service is amazing? Did they say that, "Hey, their service sucks, but this product is amazing, it's worth every penny"?

That's really how you should look at a brand. And you don't develop a brand through marketing. This is the surprise, right? A lot of marketers actually get surprised when I say this. And that's because marketing is definitely strategic, but it's also tactical, right? It's where you spend the money on.

And you can't spend money to build a reputation. Well, I guess to a certain extent you have to. So, brand is really built off of public relations i.e., what third parties are saying about you. What are customers saying about you? What is the press like? A fortune magazine or your local newspaper, what do they say about you? That's how you start to build your brand and reputation.

That's why when a new product comes out, they do a press release. But then after that press is out, you've circulated that news to build that reputation, you use marketing to start amplifying it and defending it. So there's a lot of philosophy that comes along with it. That's I would say the tip of the surface when it comes to the difference between marketing, branding, and sales.

John: Okay. But it seems to me that a lot of physicians just totally blow it off, in a way. So, let's say I'm a physician and I just want to do a good job. So, I'm going to always be on time, I'm going to have set hours, I'm going to answer the phone quickly. I'm going to do all those things to kind of at least build that core of a reputation in terms of performance and delivering what I'm doing.

But what would you say just from your experiences, dealing with physicians, or maybe your father or anybody else over your years of experience, what would be the things that look like we're just such low hanging fruit, and you thought, "Man, that physician could be just blown the doors off this thing if he or she could just do this or that, do little sales or do a little different type of marketing or work on the brand"? What have you seen?

Omar Khateeb: Yeah, that's a great question. And I'm going to use my father as a great example. When my father was practicing, he actually had a vein clinic later on in his career. He had it for about 10 years. And in his late fifties, it might've been even sixties, he invested in a new medical device, I think a laser for sclerotherapy. I might have mixed those terms up, but either way. And like most physicians, he believed the company that when they said, "Hey doc, you buy this thing, we're going to support you with marketing, we're going to send patients". None of that happened. They left him for dead practically. And that was right around the time that the financial crisis happened.

And so, my father, and I'm very proud of this. My father was against the wall with bills. He literally was taking his credit card and maxing it out just to pay his employees and going into debt himself because he refused to fire anybody or let them suffer because of what was happening. And so, he had a choice. What he decided was, he took it upon himself to go to the market. So, he worked with the little TV station and he shot a simple video and put that video up on YouTube and then paid some guy at the time, just a little bit of money just to help him set up a Facebook page and everything.

And so, from there, it started to help for him to get patients because patients were finding him. He wasn't relying on people to refer patients, although that's an important channel. He wasn't relying on the med device company. He relied on himself and he put himself in a position where he got to the patients before they had the problem. So, they knew about him. So that way, whether it's them or an aunt or whatever when they had an issue with vans, they were like, "This guy, Dr. Khateeb is on the East side of town. I really like his video. Let's go see him". And then he would have an offer. His offer was, "Hey, on Saturdays, we do free varicose vein examinations. So come in for free. I'll examine you and then I'll give you a free consult".

That's the easiest place to start. Obviously, there are so many other aspects when it comes to branding and marketing, but that's the easiest place to start because I think what physicians have the mistake of thinking is that you just open your practice and people just come in. But unfortunately, because of these large corporations, which I would do the same if I was in their place, they're buying primary care practices and everything. So, your buddies can't refer to you whether they want to or not.

And so that's the first place to really start. It's to say, "Okay, what's my bread and butter in my practice. What am I really good at? Okay. If it's this procedure, how can I make a video to show people who I am as a person? So, people say, I really like this doctor. He looks fun or she looks very warm and sweeter or funny". And then some patients say, "I went to Dr. Janet, whatever, and she really took care of me". And "Oh yeah. She took care of my mom".

How do you put that story out there? Because at the end of the day human beings have a brain for pattern recognition, which is really bad to have pattern recognition, but we resonate with stories, not through facts and logic of stats. And so, you need to put stories out there for people to discover them, and then essentially use that story themselves to justify why they're going to come to you versus let's say someone else. Why would somebody go out of the network and pay extra money to go to you? They need a story to tell themselves to say, "I'm going out of the network. I'm paying extra money. Because this doctor said in the video that she's done this for over 10 years, her patients look really happy. I know I have to pay extra, but I don't care. I'm going out of the network for this". That's what you have to think about.

John: Yeah, that makes sense. It's not really that much different from even like marketing and online business or something, those testimonials are helpful. Who goes on Amazon and picks out a product without looking at testimonials?

Omar Khateeb: Exactly.

John: I just go with the five-star. I don't even have any idea.

Omar Khateeb: You don't even look at the reviews. Look for me, I buy a lot of books and I'm not really a big fan of a lot of business books. But if I go see a business book that has over 2000 reviews, I don't care what it is. I'm just like, "This is worth me buying".

John: Yeah, the same would be true obviously to a physician. And the other thing that occurs to me is a lot of this is electronic now anyway for a practice. Everyone has a website, but what's the point of having some kind of static website that doesn't do anything. You said your father did some videos, so people can access those for free and just learn about whatever he's talking about.

Omar Khateeb: Exactly. And look, this is the easiest way to do it. I don't know if you know this, but Google owns the internet and Google also owns YouTube. And so, you can shoot a simple video, put it up on YouTube. Put a link to your website, take that video link, have that sitting on your website, that way it's driving traffic there. But then, more importantly, there's no money in easy things anymore. And so, I've seen doctors with beautiful websites and beautiful content. But if it's sitting there waiting to be discovered, you're doing it wrong. This is very proactive, they call it blocking and tackling marketing things that you have to do. And it is exhausting, but this is why, find a simple local marketing agency that for $500 or $1,000, or even $2,000 a month can do it. And a lot of doctors are like, "Oh, I don't want to spend $2,000, $3,000". Okay, this is how you justify it. You have to think about your acquisition costs, right?

So, if you on average, and this is, this is so important. If your customer actually goes to genten.com under our webinar section, there's a webinar I just did with Dr. Obinna Nwobi. It's on vein clinic success to maximize your revenue, but it's applicable to any private practice. You got to know your numbers. So, if you're doing a certain procedure and you look at your numbers in for, let's say the last month, and you say, "Hey, I saw 50 patients and I did 20 procedures".

Invest in marketing, give it one full quarter to see if it does anything. And let's just say that you only got one extra patient. Let's just say, that's it. Hey, that one extra patient is paying for that marketing, and then some. That's how you have to think about investing in your business. Because if you don't know your numbers, and then you can't delineate between what's coming in. And then if I make this investment in marketing, how much does it go up?

Look, nobody likes to spend a whole lot of money on marketing, but the other option is you don't and people go to your competitors. So, my friend has a plastic surgery practice, I think they spend about $200,000 in marketing, I think just like last month. That's an insane amount of money. That's how you have to think about it.

John: That's very interesting. No, absolutely, and it's worth spending a little bit and really doing this test, and see if it's effective. Now, do you have other videos on the website at Gentum? Because I couldn't find them when I looked at the website. So, what other kinds of videos might you have there that would be applicable to my audience or physicians?

Omar Khateeb: Yeah, absolutely. I just took over as head of gross. Maybe a couple of weeks ago when you first looked, they may not have been there, but we just added a webinar tab, I think sometime last week. So, if you go to gentum.com, we have awesome resources there. I have to brag about it a little bit because let me use Gentum as a perfect example.

At Gentum we have a platform that has to do with reimbursements and billing and claims. So, if you want to get more out of medical billing and your revenue cycle, you come to us. Does that mean all the content we create is just purely on the medical billing revenue cycle? Absolutely not.

So, all the content you'll see on Gentum has to do with, how do you become a physician entrepreneur, how do you increase the valuation of your practice? How does a practice manager do his or her job better? Because when you develop a brand around helping people with a certain area, so Gentum wants to help practices stay independent.

So, what does that involve? That involves marketing, finance, all these things. So, if we have more reasons for our physician or their staff to come to our website, use our resources for free, get engaged with the brand, the day that they have the pain and they say, our revenue cycle management is not good. Our medical billing needs help. And they say, "Why don't we just use Gentum? I know about that company". That's how this works.

The chief marketing officer of Mercedes-Benz said something very, very important. This is a long time. He said that he has to start marketing Mercedes-Benz to you the moment you turn five or six years old. Because from the time that you're five years old, you have to start seeing that as a status symbol so that when you get into high school, you see it as a status symbol. And when you get out of college, you start making money, then you think, "Hey, I've made it. I'm a business professional. What's the car I'm going to buy? Mercedes-Benz". Because you've been conditioned for your entire life to associate that as a signal, as an indication that this is what you buy when you're professional.

So again, what a lot of companies make the mistake of doing, especially doctors, they say, "Hey, I'm going to market and brand when people have the problem, they should think about me". But guess what? Everybody's doing that. You got to go more upstream and teach people something else.

Let's use varicose veins as an example. A lot of teachers get varicose veins, right? So can you maybe write a blog, maybe do a video to say, "Hey, if you're a teacher, here are five things that you should make sure to do from today to help prevent getting varicose veins". You're cutting into your business, technically doing that. But guess what? It's a lot more fun when you control that and you take your own business out that way than someone else doing it. And as a result of that, you've developed brand equity. You've developed a reputation, right? People respect that.

I'm Turkish. In my opinion, we're the masters when it comes to trade and bazaars. But this is why in the bazaar you try to always help people. If you go to a bazaar in Turkey, if I go to a rug shop, if I ask for directions, not only will they point me out, they'll say, "Hey, do you want some tea? Do you want anything?" They won't sell me anything. It's just purely trying to be helpful. Because it becomes a story, it becomes an emotion so when I want to buy a rug or someone else does, I say, why don't you go see these people? They're really, really nice. It sounds simple, but that's really how the world works these days. It has for thousands of years.

John: I think I was at the bazaar. I remember coming home from a cruise stopping in Turkey. And I think I had like 10 pounds of tea that I couldn't drink in my whole life after we had gotten the directions and the help and the welcome and doing all that.

So, okay. We're going to cover a couple of other things because we're going to run out of time. But that makes a whole lot of sense. And besides, you talk about, well, I'm cutting my own customers, but no, because you're expanding your audience by five times or whatever that number is, people come to you as an authority, then there's going to be people that get varicose veins no matter what they do.

All right. So, I was going to take a detour for one minute, and then we're going to come back to Gentem. You're one of the few people I know that did the altMBA by Seth Godin. So, I think I may have mentioned it in the past in other episodes. So, tell us just briefly what that is and what was your experience of doing that for what was it like three, four months?

Omar Khateeb: Yeah, actually, I want to say it was a full month. They might've extended it a little bit, but it's a very intense course. The funny thing was that, it was right when I got laid off from my first job, my first company got acquired, so I was laid off. I had a mortgage and the first thing I thought was, "Hey, I'm going to spend a few grand and go to this thing".

Essentially what the altMBA stands for is an alternative. AltMBA is not about certification. It's not about a degree. It's about a way of thinking. How do you show up and deliver and ship? Because at the end of the day, as that old saying goes, 90% of success is just showing up. Part of it is can you make a promise and can you continue to deliver on it?

So, for a full month, I'm connected to amazing people, leaders in medicine, business, technology, et cetera. And we rotate groups. And every week we have three big projects to deliver. I mean, these are really big projects. We have a new project, two or three days to deliver on it. Then we have a new team, a new project. And we do this for a full month. It's really intense. I'm telling you right now, there's never a good time to do it. I have friends who are like, "Well, I have kids, I have a job". There's never a good time to do it, but I promise you that when you do it, because it will squeeze you, it will force you to grow. Those growing pains are there for a reason. It will transform you if you let it. And I credit the altMBA for a lot of who I am today.

Because after going through the altMBA, I started writing an article back in 2014. People thought I was crazy. They're like, why are you writing these articles in marketing? Those articles paid my way to San Francisco to Silicon Valley. My last job I was hired by the CEO because he was reading my work when he was a director. And to this day, I've been doing my own book review every week. I do a full video on reviewing a book. I've been doing that for three years straight now, never missing a week.

And it's because of the leadership skills, the way I was taught to think about leadership by content, about authenticity through the altMBA. So, it's a transformative program for your listeners. Because if they're listening to the show, they are definitely the kind of person that the altMBA wants. If you go and apply to the altMBA, you can list me down as a reference, Omar Khateeb, and that kind of helps you because I know a lot of people do apply. So, if they see that they're recommended or they heard about the program from a graduate that helps a lot.

John: Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, Seth Godin is sort of considered a guru genius. He just stands out from the rest. He's written tons, he's got multiple books out. And yeah, I think it's seen as something that if you can do it, do it, it's worth it. Again, it's not a long-time commitment, but when you're in it, from what you're saying, which makes perfect sense, you're going to be really committed to doing that during that time frame, otherwise, you won't get anything out of it.

Omar Khateeb: Absolutely. And one thing I'll tell you that I really learned from Seth and I preach it and I'll tell you, I think this is important for all the physicians listening. We learned from training and residency and we'd just be really hard on ourselves and expect perfection. But when it comes to marketing, when it comes to business, you can't aim for perfection all the time, because when you do that, it just makes you come up with an excuse to delay. And so, sometimes vulnerability is the answer. And in my opinion, it's the answer all the time, whether it's with your patients, with marketing and everything, put yourself out there. That's what I would say. Put yourself out there.

A lot of times when you think about marketing, people look at the whole staircase, they look at the whole building, like, "Oh my gosh, I got to climb all of these stairs". And they just say, "I'm just not going to do it". Just look down and look at the first step and just take one step. Maybe put out a little post, make a crappy iPhone video, put that out there. I don't care. Just take the first step. Then the second step gets easier, than the third step. And then before you know it, you're on the 5,000 steps, you're running, you're killing it. But don't look at the whole staircase, just take one little step.

I tell a lot of physicians today, like my classmates who graduated, don't worry about all this. Just start a LinkedIn profile and connect with some people and like some posts. Just start like that. Maybe after a few weeks, maybe post something, maybe leave a comment. Little by little. It's just like anything in life. When you're working out, you're not trying to become Arnold Schwarzenegger on day one. When you're a surgeon and you're training, you're not trying to become like Michael DeBakey after a week. It takes time. It takes patience.

John: Yeah, absolutely. That's good. That's awesome advice. Okay, I want to hear a little bit more now about Gentum. Because I really think that for the listeners here that are in private practice, it's a struggle. Everything's a struggle in private practice to some extent. You're trying to see patients. You're trying to run a business. You're going to do the marketing perhaps. And you're going to do the billing. Billing is the bane of every practice that I've ever been in. So, what is Gentum doing and how would it help that? Is it really geared more for the independent small groups or independent physicians?

Omar Khateeb: Yeah. What I would say is, we do help physician groups that are bread and butter today are really physicians that one to five in the practice, maybe up to 10. That's usually getting a little bit big. We can take that on, but especially physicians for like one to five, they really love us because we do so much.

We're kind of a combination of technology and service. So, we do have certified billers and certified revenue cycle managers. The people who love us the most actually are not, the physicians love us, but their staff, their billing team loves us as well. Internal billing team that is just because we do a really good job of not only maximizing how much they're reimbursed and how fast, we stay up to date on what's changing. That's where a lot of physicians will say, "Hey, we figured it out with what costs you", et cetera, that changes in a few months sometimes, maybe a quarter. And so, if you're behind, you just lost out on a certain amount of money, right? And that's how these things happen. So, getting plugged in with us is really, really helpful.

The other unique thing that we do. And I'm very proud of where I work. I only go to companies that really have a shot of doing something transformative. Because we're very data-driven, and a physician will benefit because we're plugged into so many different specialties, we use that data to maximize reimbursement.

The one advice I'd tell physicians, and I didn't realize this. When you're starting to expand your practice, let's say like my father, he opened a vein clinic. Don't go to the bank and take a loan. Do not do that. Banks do not understand your business. They do not care about it. They're just more than happy to give you money and then essentially, charging high interest for it.

With Genten because of our data, we're able to evaluate the risk of a claim. And so anytime a physician wants, let's say they want to invest more on a new device and they need the money, they can press a button in our portal and we do what's called "Genten Advance". It's essentially a cash advance. So immediately we advanced about 85% of the claims. So, if it's a $1,000 procedure, we advance about $850 of it. You do whatever you want with it. Then we go and collect the remaining percentage and then redistribute that to you as well. We charge a very, very low percentage. It's under 5% right now. It's a pretty low percentage for that compared to a bank.

And the reason why this is valuable is that you are now essentially taking cash based on your business. You're not going and borrowing money from somebody. And a great success story, the webinar I mentioned with Dr. Obinna Nwobi, the vein clinic one, he used Gentum Advance last year on a variety of procedures to essentially build up cash. And he went and acquired a $2 million surgical practice and just expanded it like that. Didn't go get a loan from a bank, nothing, purely through our advanced payments.

And so, I think that's the future when it comes to medicine is using technology and having different financial products so you can strategically, as a physician decide how are we going to maximize profit? How are we going to advance into certain procedures, or maybe start getting cash advances to buy something? Instead of doing what we've been doing for who knows how many decades. Going and dealing, no offence to business people and lawyers who do not understand medicine. And because physicians don't understand business, these people are more than happy to give us that money, to give us those contracts at a very high interest. And then over time we ended up screwing ourselves. So, we get rid of all of that.

John: Oh, that's awesome. I'm just trying to think through this, like how this would apply, but basically, I see any tool that we can have for physicians to maintain that level of independence is awesome. We're competing with these big systems, they got CFOs, they got finance directors, they got accountants, how do you deal with that or compete? But at the same time, that's a lot of overhead that they invest in. I can tell you from being in a hospital system, there's a huge finance department and nothing in a hospital has done efficiently by any means. If this kind of technology can just help the individual physician to kind of bypass all that and have access to some cash that they otherwise wouldn't have, just from a time standpoint, that's really helpful, the cash flow.

All right, well, I think our listeners should go watch some of the videos you have, and then if they do have any need for these kinds of services, billing and revenue cycle and so forth, it doesn't sound like it would be that difficult to find out more about it. So, they would just go to gentem.com?

Omar Khateeb: That's right. Go to genten.com. I'll provide a special link just for your listeners and they can click on it in the show notes. They can go and not only get a demo, but we also do a bit of a billing and revenue analysis kind of for free. So, I recommend doing the demo because even if you don't go with us, you're going to learn a lot about your business just by talking to our team.

John: Awesome. That'd be great. Okay, I'll put that in there for sure. If they want to get a hold of you, they could probably go through Gentem or they can look for you on LinkedIn.

Omar Khateeb: They can look for me everywhere. Omar Khateeb, I'll give you some links to put in the show notes. They can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Snapchat. I'm everywhere. I'm not on TikTok though. I'm pretty much everywhere else.

John: All right. Well, this has been really fun. I think we're going a little over now. So, I guess I am going to just say thanks a lot for being here today, Omar. It's been great. And hopefully, I'll talk to you again in the future. Maybe we'll talk to your CEO about coming on to the program sometime because he is a physician. It might be interesting to get his perspective. And I guess with that, I'll say so long.

Omar Khateeb: Wonderful. Thank you so much.

John: You're welcome.

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Disclaimers:

Many of the links that I refer you to are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you.

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life, or business.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. I do not provide medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

The post How Persuasive Branding and Marketing Can Save Private Practice – 194 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Dr. Marjorie Stiegler describes how she developed her expertise in online strategies for physician branding. She’s an entrepreneur, author, and accomplished keynote speaker.

Marjorie is an anesthesiologist and Adjunct Associate Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. She is an expert and national speaker on patient safety, simulation, medical decision making, cognitive errors, and critical event debriefing.

She completed medical training at Emory School of Medicine, Internship at Georgetown University Medical Center, and Anesthesia Residency at Massachusetts General Hospital.

In today’s interview, we learn about the maternity active wear business she started in 2009. “We started it with just a few hundred dollars. It rapidly became a six-figure-a-year revenue generator…and a labor of love. It's so rewarding. It's really fun.”

She describes her early forays into online branding and marketing, which led to many of the online strategies she uses. We get into the weeds a little about how she develops and delivers her online courses. It’s a fascinating conversation and I feel like we’ve just scratched the surface.

Starting with a Blog

Marjorie set up a physician web site and Twitter account as a safe place to try social media. She thought no one would notice or be interested in what she posted.

“I wrote about what I thought about certain cognitive bias, which is sort of the underpinning of medical decision making and why we have preferences to try or not try something else. When people would search for a medical expert in decision making… I think I rose to the top of the SEO.”

Social media was a boom to her academic career. “I got invited to a lot more speaking opportunities, particularly international ones, and for bigger stages, than I think I would have.” And she began to notice how her online strategies were enhncing her reach.

Reducing Clincal Activities

While she was building her speaking career and authority, she was still practicing full time. As she has increased her coaching and course creation, she gradually reduced clinical time to one day per week.

“I do love taking care of patients, and that's one of the reasons I think that non-clinical activity is so helpful and important. It really gives me, and I think gives a lot of people who I know or that I've taught, the financial freedom to choose how much I feel like working.”

A career with clinical and non-clinical work can help prevent burnout. “When I go to work, it feels rewarding, instead of somehow…burdensome. I don't find myself over committed anymore. I have creative outlets all over the place. So, it's a great balance.”

Turn Ideas into Money

“There are many, many courses on how to launch online businesses or how to do courses. But I think physicians have some different challenges.”

Click here to download the TRANSCRIPT

Marjorie recommends paying close attention to contracts and policies with affiliated partners and organizations regarding intellectual property and money.

She has written several “how-to” books, courses, and other educational materials for physicians that focus on the online strategies she has developed. “It's fun to help people have success in this way that can seem really overwhelming. There's a lot of stuff you could do…but really not that many that make a difference to the bottom line.”

Marjorie helps people figure out how their ideas can make them money, and how to utilize online strategies to promote themselves. “That's what people want to do with their businesses, and that's where people seem to struggle.”

Our Sponsor

The University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, is the proud sponsor of this podcast. You’ll remember that I interviewed Dr. Kate Atchley, the Executive Director of the program, in Episode #25 of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 650 graduates. Unlike most other ranked programs, which typically have a duration of 18 to 24 months, this program only takes a year to complete. And Economist Magazine recently ranked the business school #1 in the world for the Most Relevant Executive MBA.

University of Tennessee PEMBA students bring exceptional value to their organizations. The curriculum includes a number of major assignments and a company project. Hence, students immediately contribute to their organizations while in the program.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations. And they have become entrepreneurs and business owners. If you want to acquire the business and management skills you need to advance your career, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office by calling (865) 974-6526 or going to vitalpe.net/physicianmba.

Links for today's episode:

• Dr. Marjorie Stiegler
• Dr. Marjorie Stiegler on Facebook
• Dr. Marjorie Stiegler’s Facebook Groups
• Online Strategy for Doctors: Blogs, Social Media, Side Gigs, and More
• The Social Prescription
• The Speaking Prescription
• Physician Nonclinical Career Hunters Facebook Group
• Emory School of Medicine
• Mass General
• UCLA
• UNC School of Medicine
• Kajabi
• Teachable
• Katrina Ubell
• Amy Porterfield
• Daniel Kahneman
• Thinking, Fast and Slow by  Daniel Kahneman

Thanks to our sponsor…

Thanks to the UT Physician Executive MBA program for sponsoring the show. It’s an outstanding, highly rated, MBA program designed for working physicians. It might be just what you need to prepare for that joyful, well-paying career. You can find out more at vitalpe.net/physicianmba.

I hope to see you next time on the PNC Podcast.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton.

Disclaimers:

The opinions expressed here are mine and my guest’s. While the information provided on the podcast is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, there is no express or implied guarantee that using the methods discussed here will lead to success in your career, life or business. 

Many of the links that I refer you to, and that you’ll find in the show notes, are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you, that I have personally used or am very familiar with.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. It should not be construed as medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counsellor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career. 

Right click here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

Here are the easiest ways to listen:

vitalpe.net/itunes  – vitalpe.net/stitcher  

The post How to Employ Powerful Online Strategies with Dr. Marjorie Stiegler – 084 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.