book Archives - NonClinical Physicians

Top Advice for Generating More Money with Less Hustle – 300

John Jurica — Tue, 16 May 2023 12:00:48 +0000

Interview with Dr. Latifat Akintade

In today's episode, Dr. Latifat Akintade describes how to generate more money with less hustle as she tells us about her newly released book, Done With Broke: The Woman Physician’s Guide to More Money and Less Hustle.

Dr. Latifat is a Gastroenterologist and founder of The Money Coaching School for Badass Women Physicians. She combines her interest in personal finance, her training as a certified life coach, and her passion for physician wellness.

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Building Wealth as a Physician: The Hustle and Broke Mindset

As physicians, we often find ourselves caught up in a hustle of energy where we're always searching for the next big thing to make money. This mindset can be detrimental, leading to a fear of missing out and causing us to focus on short-term gains rather than building wealth in the long term. However, with focused energy and strategic planning, there are many ways to build wealth and achieve financial stability.

This mindset can be changed. By acknowledging our past experiences and focusing on simple, timeless principles of investing and building wealth, we can overcome our fear of financial instability and live confidently with our money working for us. By cultivating new habits and a wealth-building mentality, we can live our lives without ever being afraid of being broke again.

Done With Broke: The Woman Physician’s Guide to More Money and Less Hustle.

Dr. Akintade wrote a book to share her wisdom on wealth building and money management, which is accessible to many people and inspired by her own journey. It advises people to identify their risk tolerance and invest based on the seasons of life they are in.

For those who are busy and don't have much time to actively invest, passive investments such as the stock market or partnering with trusted people could be a good option. Diversification is crucial, and not just in stocks and bonds. One should consider conservative and less conservative investments, short-term, medium-term, and long-term.

Summary

With her extensive knowledge and experience, Dr. Latifat is a trusted expert in the field of personal finance for physicians. She has been featured in several media outlets, including KevinMD, and has spoken at conferences and events on the topic.

If you are a woman physician looking to take control of your finances and achieve financial freedom, The Money Coaching School for Badass Women Physicians is the perfect place to start. With Dr. Latifat's guidance, you can achieve your financial goals and live the life you've always dreamed of.

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Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 300

Top Advice for Generating More Money with Less Hustle

- Interview with Dr. Latifat Akintade

John: Well, I love to bring guests on who are doing non-traditional or nonclinical jobs, side jobs, side gigs, people doing interesting things and particularly a physician who has written a book or is getting ready to release a book. And so I want you to welcome Dr. Latifat Akintade today. Welcome to the show.

Dr. Latifat Akintade: Thank you so much for having me here. I feel privileged to be here and almost feels like an imposter because I don't think about myself as being cool enough to be considered nonclinical by the way but I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

John: You're welcome. That's going to be fun. You're an ideal guest for us here because we're going to learn a lot from you. And then at the same time, I just love promoting physician's books because writing a book and getting it published is not an easy task. And of course, a lot of my listeners like to learn about side gigs and you talk a lot about making money and some of the traps that physicians fall into.

So, before we get into that though, why don't you tell us about yourself, your story and what you're doing clinically and nonclinically. And then we'll get into some of these more pertinent topics related to your book.

Dr. Latifat Akintade: Absolutely. Thanks everybody. I'm Dr. Latifat. I'm a GI Doc. I'm a mama of three little ladies, ages five to 10. They keep me really busy and alert and I'm also the founder and creator of MoneyfitMD, which is a platform that is focused on helping women physicians create true financial and life freedom, to be honest with you.

I've been talking to people more recently because of the book that's coming out and it's really gotten me to reflect even a little bit more on my journey than I may have had in the past. And sort of going to how did this journey even start? How did I get here? How did I even think that financial and the life freedom was something that was important to me? And I think for me it goes back to, I moved to the US about 25 years ago. I moved from Nigeria with my siblings. Our parents stayed back in Nigeria at that point and we were staying with family members that were kind enough to house us and all those sorts of things.

I went to undergrad in LA, I went to UCLA and then med school in San Francisco at UCSF and then New York Mount Sinai and then fellowship at UC Davis in Sacramento. And what that meant was I was dragging myself around student loan and debt and all that stuff. And I literally hit some of the most expensive cities, which means that I was hecka broke at the end of all this stuff.

But at no point did I actually think that money was important. At no point did I really sit down to think about it because I was just busy with my own family responsibilities. When I was in med school, five of us, my siblings will live together, the youngest was in high school. And so, the focus was on making sure she did okay in school and didn't go to school without clothes on and all those other stuff. I had a lot on my plates. So I wasn't really thinking about money per se.

It really wasn't until fellowship that I'm so grateful I had this moment where I just saw my attendings who are amazing, smart, intelligent, loved humans, but I just noticed that I was seeing that people were having the slump on their shoulders where they were tired, not advocating for us completely in a way that we felt like they could advocate for us. And it almost seemed like they had given up and they were part of a system where they're just doing what they were told to do.

And for me, my path to medicine, my journey here wasn't like smooth sailing. There were sacrifices that I made, there were sacrifices my family made and people that I loved. And the worst thing for me was that I was going to be in medicine and not have a choice in how I lived my life.

At that point I knew I was going to be a GI doctor with an emphasis in Crohn's and colitis and the best settings that I wanted to do that in at that point was going to be academia or a large hospital system. So, I knew that I was probably not going to be my own boss. Somebody was going to tell me what to do and God forbid they tell me what to do with my patients and I hated it. I don't agree with it and I think I'm stuck. That was going to lead to me regretting my journey and literally burning out because that's not who I am.

And so, for me that was my motivation that okay, how do I always make sure that I have a plan B? How do I make sure I figure out my money stuff? And so, my journey literally to money started seven years ago where I decided that my fear of living a life of regret, my fear of not having a choice in how I took care of my patients, was the biggest factor for me.

And so, everything else, like my fear of not knowing money, my fear of how hard it was going to be to learn money, all that became silent relative to my fear of living a life that was dependent on anybody else and not being able to live in the way that I wanted to practice my life and be a parent. And so, that was my story of how I decided that money was something I needed to fix for myself at that point.

At no point did I think I was going to teach people because I knew zero. I didn't even know what I owed. I didn't know how much student debt I had and none. I didn't have a 401(k). I knew zero. I didn't even know what a 401(k) was. And so, all this idea about being able to teach people didn't start until years later when I realized that I'd really figured out how to understand money in a way that made sense to me in English in a way that was didn't feel like a conflict to my goal of serving and helping people and hopefully creating a better world.

And that's when I realized that okay, more people like me needed to learn money, more people that were not like me needed to learn money so that we could have more things to fight about because that makes life more interesting. And that is what led me to now doing what I do with MoneyfitMD through the podcast and also through my community for women physicians.

John: Very nice. When you're talking, I'm thinking back. I remember after being in practice for three or four years and I realized, I looked at my partners and we were in a private practice. We have no pension plan. I knew what an IRA was, that was about it. I didn't know about stocks, I didn't know about mutual funds. So, I spent the next two or three years learning everything I could. And just to get to the point where we could just start at 401(k), let's at least do the basics.

I think as physicians we just put all that stuff off. We go into huge debt and then some of us get more interested in others in learning this stuff, which obviously you have spent a lot of time doing and helping others, which once you become a teacher then you really learn more because you know you have to know what you're doing. That's a really interesting story. Okay, I'll stop talking. I need to get to some practical things because I want to pick your brain a little bit and help our listeners here. First tell us about the podcast. What kind of topics do you do and do you have guests, do you do solos?

Dr. Latifat Akintade: Yeah, absolutely. I have a mixture of solo and guests. What I talk about is all things money and mindset, which means anybody that I know, especially women physicians or physicians in general, to be honest, that are doing interesting things, creative things when it comes to building their own money and also the mentality and habits that helps build wealth. And that could be decreasing burnout. That could be health in terms of our physical health, could be mental health. It's wealth in the way that I think about it, which is expensive and goes beyond money.

But the episodes are either myself or I have someone come in and talk about it. And the way that I think about it, it's building wealth from the inside out as opposed to outside in, which is how most people think about it. People think "When I get to the certain number, I will finally have wealth, I will finally be wealthy, I will finally be considered rich." And for me, I believe that's an internal job that we start first and then that trickles into external where that affects how we spend, how we invest, how we spend our time, how we practice our medicine so we can actually live a life of wealth and not waiting for some magical light at the end of the rainbow when we're going to be able to consider ourselves wealthy.

John: Okay. So, let's get into that a little bit because the title of today's episode also includes a part of the title of your book. I guess that's one thing. In a nutshell or how would you create more wealth with less hustle? Because those are two things, more wealth but less hustle. That I would like to know how you would do that.

Dr. Latifat Akintade: Absolutely. I'll start with the hustle part because as physicians we go from this, "No one has taught us about money, we focus on everything else, but how to be the CEO of our finances" to now, "Okay, I want to figure out my finances and everybody says I want to make money, I want to diversify." And there is this energy, that hustle energy is very different from working hard and diligently. I'm very pro working hard focused diligently, but what I'm not pro is this hustle energy where it's like eyes darting everywhere trying to figure out like, "Okay, what am I missing?" It's like this FOMO, fear of missing out energy where it's okay, is it crypto today? Is it gold tomorrow? Is it this little thing tomorrow? And what that does is, number one, it's almost like when you think about being in a basement with your phone and it's trying to find reception. That kills its battery faster, right?

That's the same thing that happens when we have that hustle energy because our energy has not been spent productively moving forward. It has been spent focusing on what we don't have, focusing on what the next secret is. What the key is, is there are so many different ways you can build wealth. There is almost nothing you can do that will not lead you to wealth if you continue focusing on it diligently and spending your energy going forward as opposed to that darting energy.

So, that's what I focus on because again, we are busy as physicians, we're taking care of patients, we're taking care of our families. When we start to think about how we can build wealth, it's important for us to be strategic. Focused energy, not looking for short term gains only, but understanding that wealth is something that is built in the long term so that we can stay the course regardless of what's going up and down and be able to create it.

Because whether you're doing e-commerce or you opening your own business or you investing in other people's business or you do in real estate, all of those individual ways can lead to you having a lot of money if you're willing to focus your energy and be able to build behind it. So, that's a hustle part that I think is important for us to talk about.

And then the broke part of it, the way I think about it, broke is a mindset. Let's look at the landscape of medicine today. Let's look at burnout in medicine. Let's look at the fact that physicians are practicing in systems and structures that doesn't always have the focus of the patient and physician wellness in mind. If we look at that and we are smart humans, we've sacrificed so many years to be where we are today. There is no question about our commitment, but the reason why we stay in situations that is not in line with what our patients need, what we need is because of that subconscious and sometimes conscious fear of the fact that "If I leave this, I'm not going to have money. I don't want to be broke."

So you don't have to be broke to decide to be done with broke. And that's why I didn't call the book "Done Been Broke" because this is not for people that are been broke, it's for people that have that subconscious or conscious worry that they will be broke. And I want to make sure that I'm being understanding of where people are coming from because your audience are very genius.

There are some people that grew up having lots of money, there's some people that grew up not having any money. And if you're someone that grew up not having money or you grew up in a family where conversations about money is not being had, it is completely logical and understandable that you may be living your life more in fear of the thought that you maybe broke at some point.

And I think part of it is acknowledging that part of your story and knowing that everything that we are today is the result of everything that we've learned throughout our journey. But now it's time for us to be conscious about, "Okay, what do I now want to create? Do I want to train myself to understand that I can learn how to do money, I can learn whether I like budgeting or not? I can learn how to see my money as seeds that I can plant into trees. I can start to see my money as something that can serve my life's purpose as opposed to something that's just happening by default because I'm not telling my money where to go. I can learn how to invest in a way that is simple and diversified." And simple can be as simple as the index funds that we're just talking about right now, about how I can invest in a way that is diverse, simple and successful. Do I want to work for my money? Do I want my money to work for you?

A lot of these are simple, timeless principles that we were never taught in medicine and has nothing to do with what the climate is or what the sexy thing that people are talking about when it comes to investment. If we can learn the foundations, if we can learn the principles, if we can change our own mentality and get new habits that build wealth in the long haul, we will live our life not being ever afraid of being broke ever, because we know how to do it forever.

John: Okay, that is a lot to think about. I'm just going to paraphrase here. Basically I hear you saying your relationship with money, the fear of going broke, some of it is just mental and saying, "Look, we do have a lot of control. We're physicians, we make decent money." Does it get into the podcast and possibly in the book, does it get into "Should I just become an investor and a startup?" That sounds a little bit extreme as opposed to, "Let's be conservative, let's save so much money, let's put this money in really logical places." Tell me more about the philosophy that you follow.

Dr. Latifat Akintade: Absolutely. I don't go into specific details of this is what you should invest in specifically, but what I do tell people in the book is the way that I think about it. And the way that I think about it is deciding what your risk tolerance is. What your risk tolerance when it comes to investment is. Also trying to decide based on the seasons that you're in in life, what makes more sense for you to invest in.

If you're a busy resident or you're a busy fellow or you're a busy attendant with four kids at home and you are a single mama may not be the best time to necessarily start thinking about doing something else actively. It may be time for you to think about passive things like again, set it and forget it in the stock market or now learning how to partner with people that you can trust to the best of a human ability and you can leverage their own time because they may have time to look into investments. How do I invest with them passively?

Even if it's things like syndications. How do I do things? Do I want to be a hard money lender knowing that now this is more risky? It may have a higher return but it's more risky. But the main thing is choosing how to diversify not just in terms of stocks and bonds, but also diversify in terms of conservative, less conservative. Investing for short-term, medium-term, long-term. Those core principles are the ones that I believe that when we learn, then the answer becomes really easy for our own individual specific scenario based on what season we have, what season we're in, our risk tolerance and those other things.

John: Okay, that makes sense. And that's an approach that pretty much everybody can take and not be afraid of making some of those decisions. Well, I have a friend, he's retired now, but I swear, he only put cash in the bank and he never invested in stocks, never invested in real estate. And I'm thinking, "Boy, you're going to have to save half your income for the next 30 years if that's going to be your approach."

I know you're covering a lot of these things in the book, so tell me more about the book. Maybe there's some things in there that you haven't mentioned yet and then we need to learn how to find the book. So, tell us about the book and what led you to write it and how did that go and all these kind of questions.

Dr. Latifat Akintade: Absolutely. And I love that you shared about your friend because there's an example that I shared in the book specifically about that. It was a fact that if I'm trying to go from California to New York, there are many ways to do it. I can go by train, I can drive, I can fly. My condition at the end is going to vary based on what route that I take and how quickly I get there is also going to be affected. And in my opinion, flying is a compound interest. It's a gift that we've been given. So I do talk about that in the book.

And honestly, the reason why the book came about was I have this knowledge that I'm so grateful for and I take credit for some of them, but there's some of it that I don't take credit for. I believe it's just a gift to be honest in terms of the people call it sage wisdom. I have a lot of sage wisdom when it comes to money and wealth building in general and life to be honest with you.

And so, when I think about the people that I can't help, physically in my own time limitation as a human being, that is going to be less compared to the number of people that can grab my book, that can get an audiobook and get some of this wisdom at a really cost effective 20 something dollars or so is what the price is going to be. And a lot of us are driving, we're taking the train and all those things and those are the times where we can start to build our own knowledge and start to change the foundation of our knowledge. So, in my opinion, the best way to be able to make this accessible is what you're doing through podcasting and getting information to people easily. And that's why I decided to write the book.

The funny thing is, that I'm going to share this because there are people that are going to be listening to your podcast that may want to do different kinds of businesses or follow different pathways and maybe thinking that I'm not equipped for it, I don't know how to do this. I've never done something like this before.

And that was my story even with my business with MoneyfitMD but even with the book that I'm doing. I thought I was a bad writer. For the longest time I had the story in my head that I don't know how to write, I have too many memories of being in college in the bathroom crying over English papers. And so, to think about writing a book seemed impossible, but what I try to remind people of is we are physicians and we are expert evidence for ourselves of someone that can go from knowing little or nothing about a topic and become a master of that topic. Because we've done that with medicine.

So if we can take that same skillset and reproduce it into anything because the only reason why we may not be able to do it or be good at it is because we haven't focused on it. It's literally just as simple as that. If we focus on it, we will learn it. So, whatever skillset that is for you, whether it's to write a book, whether it's to start a podcast, whether it's to start investing, whether it's to start your own company, the only reason why you may not be good at it yet is because you haven't focused on it. And all you have to do is focus, learn, find people that can mentor you like this podcast you're listening to, find communities that can help you, whether it's money you want alone. Find those people that speak your language and that can help you. And for me, if you take anything away at all from the book and this interview of me and my journey is the fact that there is literally nothing we cannot do. We just need to decide and fuel that journey and it will happen.

John: Excellent. Now, one thing I have failed to do at this point is I haven't told people where to find you. So, let's start with the website. You're at moneyfitmd.com, correct?

Dr. Latifat Akintade: Absolutely. You can find me on the website.

John: And they can find pretty much everything there I'm thinking.

Dr. Latifat Akintade: Exactly. You can find the information for the podcast and the book is going to be on Amazon, but you can get it directly from my website as well.

John: Okay, good. So we can go to the website, I got it pulled up right now and there's the book. We could get the book there or we could go to Amazon and I'll have links for that as well. Of course, you can look up MoneyfitMD podcast on any podcast player, correct?

Dr. Latifat Akintade: Absolutely.

John: Okay, that's good. We know where to find that. Now the book is not actually out as of the recording. It will be out when this is released. It'll probably be out for about a week. So, we need to pile on and get as many by five or 10 of the books. You got to get a little bit of action going on Amazon and other places so that our physician friends can do well with their books.

You've told us a lot so far. This has been very interesting. I usually go to last minute advice for our listeners, but I think they're going to be a little more motivated if you could share with us what we talked about before we got on here in terms of what you're doing right now at a high level because I think they'll get motivated if they understand what you're up to right now.

Dr. Latifat Akintade: Absolutely.

John: If that's okay.

Dr. Latifat Akintade: No, that's definitely okay. I am currently in the middle or at the beginning of a year-long family sabbatical that I'm taking with my family. We have three kids, my husband and I. And honestly, this was not like a dream list thing. A year ago I would not imagine that I was going to take a sabbatical. I love medicine, I love my patients, I have the best colleagues. I was not burned out at work. I just decided that I wanted to take time away for my family to explore the world. And that's what I did.

And the only reason why I could give myself that gift was because of the investment and the prep that I had done even before I knew that this is going to be something that I wanted to do. And that same thing is learning where my money is going, diversifying my income so that I'm not tied to clinical income only.

And if you are a physician, this is so, so important for all of us because in order for us to be well in anything, we want to have the freedom to be able to do what we want and that's a gift that we can give ourselves. But right now we're encourage out, I wish I could show you my view, but the light is so bright outside, the camera doesn't do a good job, but the goal is just to slow down. In my opinion, we're not taking a vacation, we're just leaving through the world. So we've been in New York/Jersey. We're in Carissa, we're doing Aruba, we're doing Europe, we're doing Nigeria, we're doing Southeast Asia. And I'm just excited about who my kids get to be at the end of this. I'm excited about who I get to be at the end of this. And I'm also excited about what the practice of medicine is going to look like for me when I go back next year.

John: Oh, this is fantastic. And I'll tell you what it reminds me of. I read a book, I don't even remember the title of it. But one of the principles of the book was one of the things we do in life is we create memories. And what is the value of a memory? It's hard to put a dollar value on that, but one part of the value of a memory is how long you have the memory. If you make a memory when you're 83 years old and you die when you're 84, that memory has a very low value. But if you make memories in your 30s and 40s, we have to carve out that time to make some of those memories, whether it's at home or elsewhere. And I think that's what's impressive to me is you are making so many memories over this next year that they have an immeasurable value.

Dr. Latifat Akintade: Thank you for sharing that. I hadn't heard about that memory in terms of the length and that is going to motivate me to gather even more memories. And honestly for me, I've always had the intentionality about life because I truly believe that our life is a gift and all of us went through the pandemic and a reminder that life is a gift.

And for me, I lost my dad about two years ago. He died at an age that you would call three years after what you'd consider a traditional retirement age. And it wasn't like that changed me dramatically, but it just became another evidence of the fact that it's not our money or our life, it's not our career or our life. It is both, both of those two things.

I think I need to make a recording on my podcast about this, but I really believe that we're mentally five lifetimes in one, which is where we give ourselves the permission to reset sort of our seasons of life, whatever that is. Maybe the season I'm going to be a hundred percent full-time, maybe the next season I'm going to be part-time, maybe the next season I'm going to do something else. And just give ourselves the freedom of living life fully and like you said, creating even more memories for a longer period of time for as long as we give to be on this planet. So I love that you added that on.

John: Well, you're welcome. And I had never thought of it that way until I read that book. I have done that a little bit. I'm not going to get into that. But I think looking back, those memories are still there and I really enjoy thinking and sharing those with people when I do.

Again, moneyfitmd.com, that's the website. The book is called "Done With Broke: The Woman Physician's Guide to More Money and Less Hustle." That sounds like a good combination there. More money, less hustle. I will still ask you if you have any last words before we let you go today.

Dr. Latifat Akintade: No, I want to say thank you for what you do for bringing guests on here to share. The way that I think about it, there's a lot of noise about medicine and whether it's worth the debt that we get and all the sacrifice. And I honestly am a firm believer that it is. It is if we truly understand the gift of our degree. Our degree is not a terminal degree. Whether you're MD, MD-PhD or whatever you are, in my opinion, our degree is a potent seed that we can grow into any avenues that we want.

My hope is that more physicians will start to see that, so that when and if we decide to stay in clinical medicine, we know that we're there by choice. And that way we are living our life and we get to serve our patients at the highest level. So, thank you for doing what you do and thanks for serving us this way.

John: I love that, what you just said. Again, I thank you for being here on the podcast today, Dr. Latifat. It's been fun and we'll talk again soon, I'm sure.

Dr. Latifat Akintade: Thank you so much for having me here.

John: Bye-bye.

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The post Top Advice for Generating More Money with Less Hustle – 300 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Why You Must Put Yourself First to Avoid “Healthcare Disease” – 243

John Jurica — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 10:30:23 +0000

Interview with Dr. Simon Maltais

This week's guest explains why you must put yourself first in order to overcome burnout and “Healthcare Disease.” He is a successful academic cardiac surgeon who fell victim to both of those conditions. However, he overcame them and wrote a book to assist others to do the same.

Dr. Simon Maltais recently released “Healthcare Anonymous: Put Yourself First to Avoid Anxiety, Addiction and Burnout.” It addresses the root causes of burnout and other dysfunctional aspects of our health system in which most of us have worked.

Simon is an active cardiac surgeon in one of the world’s largest healthcare services institutions. He is an internationally recognized leader in the field of heart failure and alternative cardiac interventions. He is also a keynote speaker, author of more than 160 articles, and book contributor.

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We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete.

EXCLUSIVE: Get a daily dose of inspiration, information, news, training opportunities, and amusing stories by CLICKING HERE.

Healthcare Anonymous: Put Yourself First to Avoid Anxiety, Addiction, and Burnout

Dr. Simon Maltais started writing through journaling. And he held conversations with dozens of experts on the issues leading so many healthcare workers to stress, anxiety, burnout, depression, and addiction. In turn, this system leads to devastating personal and professional consequences for healthcare workers, patients, and society.

This book offers a guide for healthcare workers to understand these challenges and start a process of healing and recovery. It is intended as a way to start a movement to address these challenges. It is available through all of the usual channels. And it can be purchased directly from Dr. Maltais's website here.

Highlights from the Book

Characteristics and personality traits. Ego, perfectionism, self-discipline, and other traits often found in healthcare workers, and that are nurtured further during training, set us up for healthcare disease.
The influence of the environment and the system. Long hours, little time to rest and recover, and prolonged self-sacrifice in the name of the patient, keep us from identifying early signs of stress and burnout. and more. There are also unrealistic expectations by the public.
The way we interact with the system. Healthcare workers cope in ways that further interfere with balance in our lives.

Dr. Simon describes the development of healthcare disease as a process, that develops similarly to other diseases. It involves the agent, the host, and the environment.

Simon's Advice

“For physicians, especially certain types of physicians and especially the heart surgeon, being honest about having a problem, being honest about being at the end of the rope is hard. And taking a pause is even harder because taking a pause from what?…

“But I give tricks and pitfalls there on what I did in terms of removing some of the extra stuff that didn't align with where I was with my values. Basically, what you do there is you start creating time for yourself to think about those things.

“It's creating this extra space and then you have to let things go, and control your schedule.

“Once you get into that recovery, start analyzing every day, because it's like you're diabetic and you work in a chocolate factory, or you're an alcoholic and you work in a liquor store… You've got to find a way to protect yourself.”

Summary

The pain that physicians, nurses, and others in healthcare have been enduring is an epidemic and it is destroying careers and hurting patients. Healthcare workers are leaving their work in droves. Patients are unhappy because the system doesn't work for them either.

Dr. Simon's book starts another conversation intended to open our eyes to the problem, and help push for solutions.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 243

Why You Must Put Yourself First to Avoid "Healthcare Disease"

- Interview with Dr. Simon Maltais

John: I feel it is my duty to promote books written by physicians, especially when the book itself addresses burnout or some of the dysfunctional aspects of our health system in which most of us either currently or in the past have worked. That's why I'm thrilled to bring on today's guest. He just released the book called "Healthcare Anonymous: Put Yourself First to Avoid Anxiety, Addiction, and Burnout." Hello, Dr. Simon Maltais.

Dr. Simon Maltais: Hi, John. Thank you for having me on the show.

John: This is going to be really great. I love to talk to physicians that have written books, and again, particularly when they are so applicable to my audience, many of whom have gone through burnout or doing different jobs or side gigs or things to avoid it. This is going to be great. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your background, your training, your education, what kind of work you've been doing, and then what actually led you to writing the book?

Dr. Simon Maltais: Yeah. Well, thank you first and foremost for having me on the show. I'm very thankful for the opportunity, and really this has meant to really open a platform for conversation. I'm originally from Montreal, so I'm French Canadian. Sometimes if my accent comes out, it's more of a background thing than anything else.

I did my cardiac surgery turning over there. I did a PhD in biomedical engineering. I did a fellowship in heart failure, heart transplantation, mechanical heart at Mayo Clinic in Minnesota, to then start my career in Nashville in the south of the United States, at Vanderbilt University. I helped build a program there and then went back to be staff at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester for almost four or five years.Focusing my practices again on heart transplantation, mechanical heart, and then less invasive surgery and robotic heart surgery. So, pretty busy clinical practice. A fair amount of research as well. I have an interest for research and education in that field specifically, clinical outcomes mostly.

And over the past two, three years, I have had some personal and some professional challenges myself that were not all of abrupt, but were progressively affecting my practice and my overall life. It really started by journaling. It's interesting because journaling is kind of special with this book called Greenlight, where he basically reports journaling and how journaling has brought him a lot of positivity in his life.

And it's really started by journaling, writing what went wrong, what was positive, what was negative. And then all of a sudden, it started to make a lot of books and writings. And so, I thought, well, maybe I should think about maybe telling my story. And then that opened up to more conversation with people, and led to more stories that people wanted to share. I'm really fortunate to be the person that was able to bring these people together, to express what we're all feeling into a nonfiction book. And so, this is all that came together.

John: Awesome. That's very interesting. And I think you probably experienced some of the things that many, many physicians have experienced, obviously, that's I think what you're writing in the book.

Just to kick things off, I know a couple of terminology or a couple of terms I should say that I notice in the book. Just the title for example says healthcare anonymous and then healthcare disease as sort of the condition. Maybe you can start by defining those. I didn't catch the healthcare anonymously until like the third or fourth time. And I'm like, wait a second. It sounds like something else anonymous.

Dr. Simon Maltais: Well, yeah. Healthcare anonymous, it's a bit of a wing to alcoholic anonymous. It really depicts the structure of the book. I know at a certain point in my life I had to read that book. And the way the book is built, it really gives you the shades of what alcoholism can look like. It's not always when you see someone on the street and lose everything. Most people are just functional. They have jobs and things like that.

And so, the book is really about depicting those shades of burnout or anxiety or telling stories. And that's how this book is built, telling stories about people's life stories that depict some of the variations of what we can go through, through our career or through a career in healthcare. Healthcare disease, it's also sort of a term that, of course, I created. But I was trying to put together everything. The stories, what went on beforehand and when the anxiety or the burnout comes over and the recovery.

And as I was talking about building the book, it came to me pretty easy as a format to say, "Well, it's really like a disease where you have the susceptibility phase, the med school, the personality traits, the influences. Then you get into the preclinical phase where you're exposed to some of these environment changes, the constraints of a healthcare system. Then you get the disease manifestation and that's all burned out anxiety at different stories and then the recovery." That's how we just decided to build the term. To say it's a chronic adaptation problem that people develop within the system, that has both influences from the person that's in it, the environment and the way that people interact with it.

John: Yeah. Excellent. Well, I'm glad you kind of mentioned that. The way that you broke it down, because I want to ask some specific questions about each of those sections, and maybe we can highlight just to get as much as we can. Obviously, there is a lot in the book. I think it's 10 chapters and there's just a lot of background and detail, but I think the highlights will be very useful as we walk through it and give some of the listeners things to think about.

You alluded to what sets us up as healthcare workers that might be susceptible to this healthcare disease. A couple of questions. Can you go into a little more detail and also, does it affect everyone on the healthcare team? Is it the same for the nurses, for the therapists, and so forth? Does it affect doctors worse? What would you think?

Dr. Simon Maltais: Yeah, I think from that second part of the question, it's meant to be really a healthcare book. And so, while there's some doctors in the book, there's stories about different specialties, there's a technician, there are nurses talking in the book. And so, it's really expanding to healthcare workers.

The principles are the same, whether you're a doctor. Of course, there's references to medical training and what that entails and things like that. But altogether, I think a lot of the constraints that the nurses or others evolving in the healthcare systems go through are applicable to all the systems.

We really got to describe the disease manifestation as a process. That fits within a triangle. The example I give is any disease, you have to have a certain host. The person that contracts the disease. You have to have an environment. For example, E. coli, you have to have a warm environment, anything like that. And you have the agent, the bacteria.

I go through the same stuff within the book. I describe for example, what are the characteristics, what are the traits of personality that people in healthcare have in common. As a host that could put people at risk of developing the disease. And when I say disease, it is to make people realize that when it comes to the burnout or the anxiety or the addiction, that's the end result of suction, that's when the disease becomes apparent. We go into detail into ego, perfectionism, the positive and the negative stuff, the self-discipline, and the internal traits or characteristics that people have to develop or that are forced on them during medical training without necessarily the emotional maturity of being able to process them. That's the first part of the book.

Then we go and talk about the environment and we really expand that to changes in the system. Just what it looks like to work in healthcare. The long hours, having difficulties eating good food, the self-sacrifice in the name of the patient, and expanding that to the environment as a whole. The perception of healthcare from the public and how it affects us. What is represented in healthcare in those TV shows, how should it look? How does that influence people in training, people in practice? Because oftentimes you see these burnout doctors, you see people that just take on too much that have broken relationships that make out in the room, and are angry at work. And so, that's the influence that we're looking at.

Then I get into the agent and that's a bit of more of a concept, but it's the way you start interacting with the system. It's the mechanism that you develop to balance your life, to act a certain way in the system. Then the disease happens when all these three things become maladaptive together or become this regulated. That's how the book is sort of constructed around.

John: Okay. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. We'll get into, I guess the last section, which is about what we can do about it. Let me see if I have any other questions about the rest of it though. Do you think there are things that can be done even as early as med school, or even before med school to maybe pick those that aren't as susceptible to this healthcare disease?

Dr. Simon Maltais: Sorry to interrupt, but I think there's a lot of things that could be done in med school. And I remember med school or any sort of time where you get accepted into these healthcare trainings. A lot of it comes from identifying big problems, people with major issues functioning in groups. They don't really know how to select people, necessarily. Although they're getting better, some of the schools rely only on grades which is oftentimes a bad reflection of how good of a doctor you could be. I think a lot of my friends that are much more balanced emotionally stable could be better fit for medicine and for this patient sort of empathy you need to have.

That question, it could be better. I think it could be better about analyzing what are the specific characteristics or traits of character that people have that could make them a better provider or not. From that standpoint, I go over some of them. Perhaps for me, competition, perfectionism was really strong. And so, there's absolutely nothing else I would've done than heart surgery because it was cool, because it was an ego sort of boosting.

Now, thinking back now through recovery and still maintaining recovery, I realize that I'm good at different things. I pay attention to some other areas of medicine, maybe that I could have been a better use of my knowledge. And so, I think early on perhaps, helping people being influenced by people that are similar, have similar characteristics. Helping with mentors that are associated with what you want to do and identifying some of these things to sort of tone down some of these characteristics of people throughout training.

John: I think that's a great insight and I look forward to reading more about it in the book. If you ask most physicians, what they'll tell you is when they've gotten to a point where they've recognized it or in the middle of it, or have even overcome it, they will say, it's not because I'm not resilient enough, it's not because there's something wrong with me. It's because the system is completely out of whack. It's dysfunctional, expects things that it shouldn't expect, and there's no way to break out of it other than just quit. You go to get help and there's not a lot of people listening. Number one, is that true? Number two, has that changed? And have you ever seen an organization that's been really good at recognizing and addressing it?

Dr. Simon Maltais: Yeah, I think to that point, I'd say, I partially disagree. I think we have to own a part of the responsibility. Because it's always easy to say, yes, it's always easy to do more. It's always easy to put your family second. It's always easier to talk about medicine all the time, be at work and have this piece of the pie that is 90% work and 10% other stuff.

So that's on us in some ways. But it's also the way we were brought up. To put the patient first, to always do the work. I'd say I agree partially because the system is what it is. You can change it. You can swear about it. You can try to change things, but the system will change just because it's just powerful. It's this sort of machine that has to evolve over time to adapt to patients, to the economy, and things. It's the way you start interacting with it that I think is clear.

To your point, I think sometimes the only solution can be to leave it behind. I tend to be a bit more half full. I mean, for some people that will be it. And in the book, we have stories of people that have done it. We have stories of people, unfortunately, that are too late. By the time they realized they needed to do something. We have one very particular story where the wife is speaking about her husband that's now passed, from just being sick and depressed in healthcare.

But I think the better avenue is to really take a pause and maybe assess how you really interact with the system. And that's easier said than done because even yesterday I was having frustrating conversations and frustrating things at work. And I have to really reset myself because it's easy to get caught up in the vortex, I call it in the book.

But yeah, I think it does require an adjustment, how you interact with it, how you put your limits, how you scan yourself every day to see if you've done too much, not enough. That is active work. It's like realizing you're sick that you have a chronic disease to deal with, because if you get burned out, it's a chronic problem that finally manifests itself.

But then going back to the exact same place. Sometimes it's got to change. And hospitals are pretty good about pointing out when it's not well. When you come to work, you're drunk, where you sort of make mistakes, when you're angry, they point at you. And they're pretty good about that. The prevention of it, not so much.

Then the treatment of it, not so much. They'll send you the charm school. They'll check a HR box and they'll bring you right back. That part, I'm not entirely sure. And I do see some changes. Especially with COVID I think people realize that's a significant issue. And by the way, whether I do surgery through a hole like this, or a big hole like that, whether I do it with or without the pump, I don't think that's what's going to be the end of my specialty. It's how we treat ourselves and how we manage stress moving forward after all this stress over the last two years.

John: Interesting. Well, I will say to your point about maybe we need to really make better decisions about certain things. People that I talk to, physicians, who are trying to make a change, a lot of times they haven't even approached their boss, their partners with the problem, like, "Well, they're not going to care. They're not going to do anything." And in reality, when you do that and have a conversation, that's a real conversation, half the time, they'll say, "Okay, you want to cut your hours back? Okay. You want to do a job share?" There's not a lot of that, but most of us don't even think to ask about it. We just keep plugging along until it's too late.

Dr. Simon Maltais: It's too late. I think if there's some specialties that have been sort of, and I talk about historically built into that kind of mentality, where if you say "no" it's not good. Do the right thing. We used to say that. You're tired, you can't drive home because you haven't slept for 24 hours. That extra phone call, the word was DTRT - Do the Right Thing. That's how we were trained. And so, you just keep piling it on. And as I said, at some point, it's just too much.

John: Now at the end of the book, again, not having read it, which I should have gotten that Kindle version and read it before our interview here, but I've got the hard copy on order. But you come up with some suggestions, some job observations, some advice for the readers. And I didn't know if you could maybe just pick a few of those and give us some things to think about in terms of what we might do differently.

Dr. Simon Maltais: It wasn't easy to break it down because I try to build on my own experience, but I try to discern also what was common among the 20 plus stories I've had in the book. These stories are categorized into different clinical manifestations of the disease, whether it's physical, psychological, behavioral, and others, divorce and all that stuff. Which I think also is a sign of not taking care of your family and for many reasons it could lead to that. When I talk about recovery, I start from that, and then try to discern five steps that at least have helped me throughout the process. And it's not rocket science, but the first step is really to be honest and take a pause.

For physicians, especially certain types of physicians and especially the heart surgeon, being honest about having a problem, being honest about being at the end of the rope is hard. And taking a pause is even harder, because taking a pause from what? Just leave it. But I give tricks and pitfalls there on what I did in terms of removing some of the extra stuff that didn't align with where I was with my values. Basically, what you do there is you start creating time for yourself to think about those things. I'm reading this book. It talks about this space as a unicorn space. I think about it the same way. It's a bit different from what she talks about in the book, but it's creating this extra space and then you have to let things go, control your schedule. And I give tricks about that.

I think that's applicable for a lot of things in medicine. It's realizing that you are not God. And that doesn't really relate necessarily to the individual thinking he's better than everybody else. It's realizing that you are part of a process, that you are trained a certain way. Whether you're a nurse, you're a doctor, you can't control the outcome. You're just another bozo on the bus. So, you're not driving the bus, you're not following the bus. You're just another guy on the bus or a woman on the bus.

I think that when you start realizing that everybody has a role to play, first, it gives you a perspective. And it allows you to forgive yourself and to say, well, if I've done everything right, and the outcome is not good. I don't have to be angry. That's what we do. And sometimes there's an external force that's just stronger, it can take patients away or have them have complications.

I don't want to go through all of them, but I think the third most important one, I call virus scanning yourself. And it's to find time for yourself during the day, during the morning to do things that will allow you to reset time within a busy environment. And I think that's important for anything. Whether you're an athlete, whether you're a CEO, a lot of the coaching tips and pitfalls are to find a time to say, "Am I stressed today? Well, how do I feel? Where do I feel it? Is it in the back of my neck? How can I change things to feel differently?"

I think it's important steps. Once you get into that recovery, start analyzing every day, because it's like you're diabetic and you work in the chocolate factory or you're alcoholic and you work in the liquor store and you have a disease. You interact not so well with an environment and you put yourself right back into it. So, you got to find a way to sort of protect yourself. That's another big step I think that we try to identify or we try to give people insight into.

John: Yeah. And there's a whole lot more as you allude to, but I want to spend the last few minutes actually talking about the book and how to get the book and what's going on with the book. Why don't we just hit that? For the listeners, when this is being recorded, it has not been released yet, but it will have been released by the time I publish this. And I think the release date is April 5th, so it's a few days ago in the future. Where's the best place you can find the book, number one?

Dr. Simon Maltais: Well, you'll be able to find the book at most of the major stuff. It'll be distributed in all the Barnes & Nobles and the regular venues. You can have it on Amazon, Books-A-Million, and all the online things. You also can go to healthcareanonymous.com, which is a website we've created to have easy access to ordering the book. You can have order bundles, which comes with a certain work around it, where we can go to your workplace to do what's called the SWOT analysis of your workplace to try to help your team and people be better in the environment. Sometimes it's little things. It doesn't take much to make people happier and decrease turnover and certainly, it's valuable to do that.

But more importantly, I want to mention, for those of you that I think want to pass a message or start a company, I was just listening to the TED talk from Simon Sinek who wrote the book, "Start with Why." I always come back to, "Why am I doing this?" And it's not to sell books. It's not to formalize a therapy for Simon. It's to really start a movement because I do think that that's going to be the challenge for the next 10 to 20 years for healthcare, to manage the people within the system, to take care of their workers that can then overly take care of to foster.

There's not a week now, for those of you that are in the system that will resonate. There is not a week now that I hear another partner, yet another person that either leaves medicine or healthcare in general. A nurse that transfers to something for better hours, or leaves medicine altogether. A surgeon that has left another hospital for "issues."

That is the real threat I think to healthcare. There were thousands of nurses missing to take care of patients. They're out there. They just are going through something real. The real "why" on this is to raise the movement and try to have people understand that that's a real threat. We provide even more help through a site called breakthroughpoints.com where I've aligned myself with other doctors from around the country and professional athletes to raise even a bigger, because I think a lot of the themes are common, whether you're in healthcare, you're an athlete, you're a CEO, a lot of the themes are common and we're proposing a system there to help people get through this and have a better life.

John: Excellent. Yeah, that is great. I recommend people go to healthcareanonymous.com. It's a cool site and there's some testimonials and you explain a little bit about again, why you wrote the book and all that. Plus, it has the opportunity to buy boxes of copies of the book. Maybe if you're part of a team, you want to share it with other people. That would be a good starting point. I appreciate that. And I'll put the links to that and to breakthroughpoints.com in the show notes. Maybe we'll reach out to you again in a year or so and see if things are getting any better.

Dr. Simon Maltais: Yeah, this is the hope. I've gotten really good feedback and I've got a lot of opportunities now to speak and meet people and that's been great. Just spread a message of hope. One of the guys tends to summarize it pretty well. He says, we were called heroes. And now that the system has to recover from all this, there's only one word difference between "hero" and "zero". Unfortunately, that's what we're seeing. We're seeing people closing, getting fired, because they have to recuperate money somewhere from all those two years of COVID. So, it has a significant impact on everybody. I hope that your listeners will not only just get the book, but spread the message.

John: Your point is well taken. I don't think that the people in charge, whoever that is, realize the pain that physicians, nurses, others in healthcare have been enduring and the fact that they are leaving in droves and they're not being replaced effectively. And patients are already unhappy. Every patient I used to see was unhappy because I was rushed. I couldn't spend time with them. The system didn't work for them. Accidents happen, mistakes are made. Man, hopefully, something like this will be recognized and followed like you said, to fix it.

Dr. Simon Maltais: I was just reading this Harvard business review. The companies have adapted better, the tech companies. When you come in, you propose hybrid work and that kind of stuff. It's better received than our culture where there's more history where you have to wear the white coat, you had to be there in your office all day waiting. Actually, I've proposed now. I'm very fortunate. During COVID I've been proposing that model to a hospital. And actually, my three partners have the same. We're here, we work hard. We have this hybrid ability to take time off. And I think a lot of systems would benefit to have rested people and allow some of that flexibility.

John: And I think some of those big, massive companies are actually creating their own health systems like within their borders in a way, the Googles and that. Maybe that'll be an option down the road. All right. Well, Simon, I will let you get back to work. I thank you very much for talking about your book today and we'll keep an eye out to see how things progress over the coming years with this problem, not just with the sale of the book, obviously with this problem.

Dr. Simon Maltais: Well, thank you again for the invite, John. I'm very fortunate and I thank you for the invitation.

John: All right. You take care. Bye-bye.

Dr. Simon Maltais: Thank you.

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How to Become a Marvelous Medical Mystery Author – 231

John Jurica — Tue, 18 Jan 2022 11:00:17 +0000

Interview with Dr. Debra Blaine

Dr. Debra Blain is a marvelous medical mystery author. She was born in New York City and grew up on Long Island, New York.

Debra attended Baylor College of Medicine. She returned to New York for post-graduate training. For over thirty years, she has practiced Family and Urgent Care Medicine on Long Island and Queens.

She loves writing thrillers – even more than practicing medicine. Her first novel, CODE BLUE: The Other End of the Stethoscope, was released in 2019.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete.

Novel Writing

Her newest book, Undue Influences, was released in October 2021. It continues her campaign against greed and argues for the practice of integrity.

But don't be misled. It is as suspenseful and engaging as any thriller. During the interview, Debra explains why she enjoys writing, and the approach she followed to complete two books in a relatively short period of time.

Coaching

Debra is also a Certified Professional Coach, Master Trainer, and Certified Group Leader. She works with clients who are struggling to navigate the corporate world. She also coaches clients who wish to write and publish. And she continues to write herself.

Publishing for the Medical Mystery Author

Dr. Blaine described in detail the options for publishing a book. She explained that the three major approaches are self-publishing, traditional publishing, and hybrid publishing.

With self-publishing, the author maintains complete control over the process. She also receives essentially 100% of the royalties. However, it is more work and can be costly to hire editors and pay for marketing and printing.

Using a traditional publisher takes longer. It requires that an agent be hired, and produces a much lower royalty payment. Furthermore, the traditional publisher makes all final decisions. It owns the rights to your book and pays for all of the expenses of getting the book published.

Finally, the hybrid publisher provides some of the support of the traditional publisher. But more control and a higher royalty percentage remain with the author. This publisher may provide its own editors and will help get your book into major bookstores.

Summary

Debra is an awesome writer. In today's interview, she describes her writing journey. She explains the inspiration for her two books. And presents how to go about publishing a novel as a medical mystery author.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

Links for Today's Episode:

Dr. Debra Blaine's Website
Buy Code Blue and Undue Influences
Debra's LinkedIn Profile Page
How to Influence the World by Writing a Medical Thriller – 116
How to Be an Author and Nonclinical Career Expert with Dr. Heidi Moawad – 063
How to Become an Author, Consultant and Online Authority with Dr. Tom Davis – 047
NewScr!pt the BEST place to find career mentors and experts at your fingertips

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Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

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Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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How the Healing Power of Poetry Saved My Life – 228

John Jurica — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 11:00:12 +0000

Interview with Dr. Barbara Loeb

Dr. Barbara Loeb shares the healing power of poetry in this interview. She is an author, speaker, mentor, facilitator, and physician leader. And she is committed to promoting well-being, especially for people working within healthcare.

She believes that individuals devoted to caring for others often fail to take care of themselves. Her work is now focused on inspiring caregivers to do just that.

Dr. Loeb started her 40-year career in health care as a primary care physician growing an internal medicine group practice. To have a larger impact, she expanded her work into medical staff leadership roles as department chairman and medical staff president at Advocate Good Samaritan Hospital, part of Advocate Aurora Health.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete.

Consultant and Chief Medical Officer

After transitioning her practice to become part of Advocate Aurora Health, she moved into a number of chief medical officer roles for other health systems, hospitals, physician networks, and health plans. She also served as an independent consultant for the Studer Group, improving physician communication and leadership skills.

During her career, she became highly aware of the balance she had to maintain between her work and her personal life. From all these vantage points, she observed the fatigue, lack of self-care, and burnout that many peers experienced.

The Healing Power of Poetry

In her first book “How to Save a Life: Healing Power of Poetry,” Dr. Loeb utilizes the principles of presence, reflection, self-awareness, and self-compassion to create poetry that displays the personal healer’s journey. She inspires the reader to reflect on their own individual path to well-being. By sharing her poems and introspective travels, she reveals the great strength one can build by engaging in this process.

To cultivate her own well-being, she developed her own restorative ritual. It combines mindfulness, writing, and building deeper connections with patients and colleagues. She intensified this practice during the challenges of the pandemic.

Today, Dr. Loeb shares this knowledge with colleagues through speaking, writing, mentoring, and facilitating groups. Her focus is on building mindfulness and promoting narrative medicine and related initiatives. She notes that the healing power of poetry is a metaphor for it's effect on her professional and personal journeys.

Summary

Dr. Barbara Loeb describes her transition to the most recent chapter in her life. Some might call it retirement. However, Barb feels as productive as ever. And she is having a positive impact on those around her while doing what she finds meaningful.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.

Links for Today's Episode:

Download This Episode:

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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 228

How the Healing Power of Poetry Saved My Life

John: Dr. Barbara Loeb.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Hi, John. I'm glad to be here today.

John: It's good to see you again. We're doing a video just so we can do the interview. I remember talking to Barb very clearly because she was doing something at the time that was near and dear to my heart because I had been in hospital administration for a while. But today's interview can go in a little different direction. I think you'll all enjoy this.

With that though, tell us a little bit about yourself, the thumbnail version, and your background. What's been going on since we talked to you over two years ago?

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Well, John, two years ago when we talked, we talked a lot about how I prepared myself to take the plunge into executive physician leadership and gave some advice, but I didn't really realize at that time that I was beginning to go in another direction. There was an undercurrent there even long before the world changed for all of us, that something was sort of peaking. And I wasn't really aware until a few months later, things sort of started to happen.

John: Yeah, looking back there was nothing. I think there had been a little bit of a transition, there was a gap there, but I hadn't really heard that you said anything related to what we are talking about today based on what I know. I really want to see what's changed and learn more about what you've been up to. So, tell me more about that.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Well, first of all, I had a change in my career path, which was the first thing that happened, but simultaneously I actually had a little bit of change in my physical health. I had a back problem. I've had spinal stenosis surgery several years back. Actually, it's been almost eight, nine years now. But I started to have some relapse. And I realized at that time that I had spent my life really in a cycle of constant doing. First, as a young doctor, running with my kids to daycare, then to the office and writing prescriptions, seeing patients, and making a lot of critical decisions that were life and death and had to be done right now. And when I transitioned into a physician leader, I did the same thing just with a different focus. And at this time, right after we talked, I realized that it was time to take a pause. That I had spent my life focused on others and I needed to turn a little bit more towards what I needed to have my own well-being improved.

John: Okay. It seems like it's a common thing that comes up for physicians, obviously because we have this kind of shared pathway we go through during our careers and our lives. And for some of us, it comes earlier than others, but it sounds like a common thing. It'll be interesting to see what you've learned and share with others that are listening today. So, when you notice that, what kind of steps did you take to change or to do something different?

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Well, the first thing I decided to do was to move away from my administrative role and I decided to focus more on promoting wellbeing for myself and wellbeing for others in healthcare who were like me, who had not really attended to their own needs. I wanted to find a way to become more grounded and present and connected with myself. I turned back to the practice of mindfulness.

John: Okay. Now back to the practice, was that something you had done before or was this a new thing?

Dr. Barbara Loeb: When I was young, I had done a lot of mindfulness and my mother actually was a Buddhist. And I used to meditate and I used to do a lot of very creative things as well. They had all fallen by the wayside with this career of producing and the pressures and stress of the healthcare profession. And so, I thought, well, maybe one way would be to go to a retreat. And I signed up for a Zen retreat in California, a place called Deer Park Monastery that was founded by a very famous monastic Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh which many of you may have heard of.

And I also simultaneously started looking at ways that people were using mindfulness for healthcare people. There's a program out of the University of Rochester school of medicine, where they use mindfulness techniques in training to help physicians and connect with their patients and their colleagues and prove their resilience as well as their care. Those were two paths I started on simultaneously.

John: Okay. So that reminds me, I've had other guests that have been involved heavily with meditation. Some of them teach meditation. These are physicians. There's something about, I don't know, being so focused on intellectuality or concrete things and science and that some of us abandon the softer parts of our learning. And boy, that's pretty interesting though, that your mother was a Buddhist because there's a lot of knowledge there about how to approach this.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Yeah, she was. And my husband said that my mother's name was Judy, and he said, "Well, the Judy in you is coming out now, you're interested in art and poetry and meditation". I guess the Judy was coming out of me. I know it was the genetics or the background, but one of the things that I'd like to turn back to for a moment, as you mentioned about science, and this is a softer side. Yes and no, because there's a lot of science now about mindfulness. And if you study the works of Daniel Goldman or Richie Davidson, the neuroscience shows that cultivating mindfulness actually has a physiologic neurologic effect on your brain. And that our brain has neuroplasticity, the ability to grow and change.

We used to think the brain was like a fixed organ and that nothing would change, but there's been a lot of scientific evidence that the brain does change. And that long time meditators have thickening of their neocortex frontal lobe, which is our center of executive function. There's a lot of science now that shows that this can help us and also suppress some of our lower brain functions, a fight-flight-freeze, and the emotional overload that we have in these terribly difficult times and difficult challenging careers that we have in medicine.

John: Okay. I'm going to ask a little more about this because I want to get your perspective on it. Of course, meditation and mindfulness are not exactly the same thing. Is it? Maybe mindfulness is a form of meditation. What is your take on that? Explain that to some of us who are novices.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: I think meditation is a form of mindfulness. I think mindfulness is sort of an act of paying attention on purpose, being aware, being present, and allowing yourself to connect to what is actually here in the present moment, sensations, even thoughts. It's not eliminating any of those things, and it's not going up to the Himalayas and saying, "Oh, it's actually just focusing your mind and attention back onto the present moment, the things around you".

John: I know little about it, but I did read about it for a while. I've read several books about Buddhism and so forth. And the one time I decided to use it, I'm just giving my own example, this was 20 years ago, but I was very depressed, I was burnt out. I was going through a divorce. It was a lot of anxiety, a lot of thoughts that were out of my control seemingly. My approach to mindfulness was simply, if I was driving, I would focus on the license plate in front of me, focus my hands on the wheel. I'd go home and I earned a shirt and I would focus on that or I would chew a French fry and I would do it very slowly and I'd feel the crunch and the oil come out. Everything was focused on exactly what's happening right now. That's my take on my own personal use of mindfulness.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Well, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it while you're driving, maybe at a stoplight when you're waiting for it to turn green. There's a common exercise about noticing when you're at a stoplight or waiting in a line, but I was wondering, well, how was that for you?

John: Definitely, it would just push all the other thoughts out of my mind. And then I would relieve a lot of those physiologic responses. And I've thought about in the past trying to meditate or to take a course or something, and I haven't, but that's the closest I've come to it. I know a lot of people though, that have used it extensively and have been very pleased and have physically and emotionally, and mentally felt better.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Well, yeah, one of the things that you can do, or that is part of mindfulness is within your daily activities, as you mentioned. But sometimes as for instance, if you're a nurse and you're working in a COVID unit and you're very overwhelmed and you're just continuously doing things, taking care of patients. If in a moment, as you're walking from room to room, you begin to notice the sensation of your feet on the ground, or when you wash your hands, you feel the sensation of the water and the soap.

That gives a moment of you becoming back present in your own body, and also gives you a chance to decompress from this constant, "What do I have to do next?" And there's a lot of stress. Bringing yourself back into your body with sensations has a very calming effect and helps you build your resilience to face difficult times. So you can do things in your daily activities, such as some of the ones you did, some of the ones nurses and doctors and others caretakers can do. People find a very positive effect of doing that.

And then also when you're in a situation, you are able to notice what the sensations are of your body. Like, for instance, if you're in a conflict or you're in a situation where someone has died, your grief of loss, when you notice what's coming up in your body, you can actually sort of lean into it and ease some of that and give yourself a moment. You don't just have automatic tightening and clenching and different things that don't help your wellbeing. There's a lot of benefits to it in just daily life.

John: All right. I want to pause for a minute now, only because I know that you have a website. Do you address some of this on the website? Do you have some of the articles you've written?

Dr. Barbara Loeb: My website right now is more focused on my poetry. But I would like to expand into some of these other areas, neuroscience, et cetera. I would recommend if someone's interested in neuroscience to look into the Healthy Minds program from the University of Wisconsin in medicine because Dr. Richie Davidson is in charge of that. And then there's also for caregivers and doctors, and the healthcare people, there's the mindful practice program in the University of Rochester that talks about healthcare. There are a lot of things out there and you can certainly contact me if you want to hear more information about what programs are out there.

John: Excellent. Well, you did just mention the poetry. So let me just give the website, first of all, mind2heal.com. We'll do it again at the end. Somewhere in this process that you've described now, you did get into writing specifically writing poetry, which will be described on that site. Tell us how that happened and what was that process like?

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Well, it was interesting. There actually were three phases and I've turned it into what the three intentions for my book are because in mindfulness, we talk about beginning with what your intention is. Really the first writing came about at that retreat I mentioned. And the monastic was talking about in a hundred years from now, your name, your face, your voice, no one will know your identity that we all think is so important. Our name up in lights, it's so critical. No one will know who Barbara Loeb is, or John Jurica is. No one will know us.

So that actually freaked me out a little bit. And I thought, well, my great-great-grandchildren will be asking their parents who this Barbara person is. And I decided I needed to send them a message. I wrote my first poem, which was called "To All Generations with Love". And it was basically sending a message into the future that I'm with them, even if they can no longer know who I am. So that was the beginning of writing poetry. But I didn't know at that time that it was going to be a book.

John: Ah, so then you kept writing, right? Apparently.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Well, what happened then was the pandemic hit. Not a good time. Like many of you, I was already trying to figure out what my next life was. They always say in your previous life you figure out your next life. And I already told you about the first two lives and I was in my third life. And then the pandemic hit and all the plans I had, like everyone else, were destroyed. And in addition, unfortunately, I had some really significant losses. My father passed away of COVID in the first month of COVID on his 90th birthday in isolation. I couldn't be with him. He was in the hospital. They didn't have anything to treat him at that time. And then my mother-in-law, my husband's mom got COVID and she survived the COVID, but then it was downhill and she passed.

And in the middle of all that, my two-year-old grandson got hit by a car. And my husband and I had to rush to Colorado before vaccines were available and take care of the other four kids. They are five siblings. He luckily survived, but it was pretty stressful. It was a spinal cord injury. I realized I really needed to look at how to heal myself. And poetry, mindfully sitting, reflecting, and writing was very healing for me. And it opened the time that I hadn't spent in all those 40 years in healthcare to actually attend to my own self-care.

John: Okay. That kind of tells me that the title is very similar to what you just said. The healing that occurred because the title is "How to Save a Life: Healing Power of Poetry", right?

Dr. Barbara Loeb: That's right. And I always thought that I would write something or do something that would help healthcare people and their healing process was always healing others. And I realized that this poetry writing in a sense saved my life from going into a downward spiral in these really difficult times because it energized me and gave me a feeling of uplifting and hope. That was actually the second intention of the book. It was saving my own life with the healing power of poetry.

And also, it sorts of brought me to what I call the third phase or third intention when I realized that there were other people will like me, many, many, many thousands and thousands of doctors, nurses, and others that had spent so much time caring about other people, caring for other people that they had left themselves not attendant. And I thought, well maybe if they see my journey, this can help save their life metaphorically speaking, by connecting them with their inner wisdom and inspiring them to write or paint or do whatever it is, or even just sit and reflect and release their own ability for creativity and healing. The third intention was to share the methodology with others, for promoting their self-healing.

John: I don't want to get into too much detail, but how was that? What was it like? Was it difficult to turn those that you had written into a book to get the book published or self-published? Just a couple of sentences on that.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: It was a journey and I'm glad to connect with anyone who needs advice on that. I first published it through Amazon Self-Publishing. By the time I decided to make the book in my phase three, the third intention, I had a lot of poems already that I had written. In part, I had the material, but I had to do the editing and I used an independent vendor called Fiverr to edit and to format, which was very helpful. And I used my mother's artwork as an illustration. So that was really fun because it was a journey into the legacy of my family and I put it all together. It took a little bit, but there were a lot of good YouTube videos out there and webcasts that helped me and gave me advice on how to do it. I was able to accomplish it. I actually put the whole book together in less than six months.

John: Nice, nice. But you had already written a lot of it before that, right?

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Yeah. I had written the poems. I had to do the prolog and the introduction. And then at the end of the book, I actually have an appendix that explains

every poem, just a few sentences saying where I was when I wrote it, what I was thinking, what my intention for that particular poem was. And a lot of people have found that very helpful. Although the poems are not abstract, they're pretty clear. A lot of people like that little extra background.

John: Nice. Okay. So, I've interviewed many people that have written books, some self-published, some published by national companies, and things in between, but I don't usually have people read from their books. But I thought, wait a second, if you've got a book of poems, we should be able to have you read one of them for us and really give us an example of your poetry.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: I would love to.

John: All right, let's do it.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Yeah. I picked out one that is relatively short and it's about how we're driven from one thing to another. And I realize that the ability to change anything or do anything is to first become aware of the cycle of doing that I was in and that I'm in. So, it's called "Shiny objects".

"I'm floating in a sea of uncertainty, beneath the surface among shiny objects. Reaching for one I'm distracted by another. Turning back the first one disappears. Dazzled by yet another and another. I try to scoop them up, they slipped through my looped arms, gracefully dancing in slow motion just out of reach. I turn and search. My goggles are clouded. I swim to the surface gasping for air with one deep breath and one deep pause. I dive down again and again."

John: Thank you for doing that. I don't read a lot of poetry, but I always imagine that I'm not reading it necessarily the way the poet wrote it and with the inflection and the timing. And it's nice to hear someone actually read their own poetry and get the feeling and how it was. Because poetry has a certain rhythm to it.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Yeah. Well, I like reading it to myself because it reminds me of what I was thinking and what my intention was. And I hope that it inspires that in someone else to think, "Gee, I've been there".

John: Right. Now did you write poetry when you were younger? Was that part of growing up? Because it's sort of like, well, someone just starts writing poetry? Tell me about that just as an aside.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: When I was a teenager, I wrote a number of poems, including one that was like your epitaph. My teacher said, write your epitaph. But in the front of the book, I actually have a poem that I wrote when I was like 14 or 15 years old. I did write poetry then, but then there was a big gap. I journal from time to time over the years, but then life got in the way of anything creative and all I did was work, work, work, and raise my children and take care of my patients and become the executive and all those things. And there was no space.

John: Right. This has been quite a journey so far that you've described, but I know from briefly talking to you before we actually set up the interview today that it's kind of led into some other things. And we do have time here, so maybe you can tell us some of the other things that you're involved with that my listeners might find interesting.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: I definitely would love to. The first thing that came about was when I was talking about mindful practice. I originally was looking into how we can help other healthcare folks through mindfulness. I got involved with a program called Mindful Practice out of the University of Rochester school of medicine and dentistry. It's started by two physicians that are general physicians, Dr. Ron Epstein and Dr. Michael Krasner.

And basically, it talks about bringing mindfulness narrative, like the stories and dialogue into healthcare so you can connect better with yourself, your patients, and your colleagues. And I trained as a facilitator of this program. I would recommend it as something to check out. There are retreats and remote programs that people can attend. So that's the first thing I've been involved in. And also at the same time, I got involved with a narrative medicine program. I'm sure you're going to ask me what narrative medicine is.

John: Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Narrative medicine focuses on bringing what is called narrative competence into healthcare. Narrative competence means the ability for a person to acknowledge, absorb and interpret the accent stories and the plight of others around them, whether it be themselves, their patients, or their colleagues. That philosophy, that discipline was started at Columbia University with Rita Sharon. And she's really sort of the person who coined narrative medicine, but now it's quite spread throughout the country. And a lot of medical students and medical centers have courses in narrative medicine, which focus on close reading and reflective writing.

The program I've been involved with is through Advocate Aurora Health. We have a narrative medicine group that meets twice a month. And what we do in that group is we start with a meditation, a mindfulness reflection of some sort, and then we have a writing prompt. It's something that inspires us to write. And then we share in breakout rooms and then we have a closing reflection or meditation. And that has been very helpful in sort of stimulating me to write and bonding with a community of people. Just like the mindful practice, also a community of people that have like minds, that want to cultivate mindfulness. And this group created creativity and writing and humanities in healthcare.

John: Okay. Now you said two phrases that I'm not sure I know what they mean. Closed reading and reflexive writing. What was that?

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Okay. Close reading means when you read something more in a mindful fashion. In the very classic narrative medicine groups, they actually do a little more disciplined work around reading pieces whereas in an advocate auroras group we're a little bit more informal. But in classic narrative medicine, they have a particular way they read from the literature and then they write reflectively, meaning what comes up after the reading is a reflection in a way. And they do that in a more disciplined way. In our group, it's a little bit more open.

And we actually also have people in our group that are not directly healthcare workers, because everyone is part of the healthcare system on one side of the stethoscope or the other. It really helps by actually duplicating the relationship that you would have with the patients. We have to be able to relate to people regardless of what our role is and diminish that hierarchy of doctor-patient because that actually sometimes gets in the way of good communication and understanding of each other's stories.

John: That makes sense. If you're doing narrative medicine and are following the principles and you're not including the patient, it makes sense to be involved with people. Of course, we could all be patients too, but we have a different jargon than the average patient. It would be nice to do that together.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Yeah. I don't know if you have time to share this, but there are two things clinically that have been done that have been very helpful related to this type of discipline. Our narrative medicine group's founders, his name is Dr. David Thoele, and also Marjorie Getz. They're the two founders of that group. Dr. Foley is a pediatric cardiologist and he's created a three-minute mental makeover where what he does is he works with the patient and the patient's family and they write three things they're grateful for, summarize our life in six words and three wishes if they had Aladdin's lamp. And that process of writing and reflecting with patients changes the dynamics between the caregiver and the patient and creates a synergy, a relationship, a communication that really helps care.

And then the other one I wanted to mention is Dr. Joshua Houser, who is out of the Jesse Brown VA and Northwestern Memorial Hospital. He has a program called Poetry for Veterans. And what they do there is they read poetry with veterans. Particularly, he's in palliative care, so some of them have very severe diseases. And they've witnessed a change in the patient's perspective about their own life story and how they relate to their caregiver, how they relate to each other, not just as in a medical way, but as humans. And they also do that kind of thing with their staff. Those are two examples of reading and writing together that have introduced a different level of human connection into healthcare.

John: All right. Well, that's a lot to get my brain around, but it's very helpful. Thanks. Because I can look those things up and I will actually include some links to those as well for listeners that are interested.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: There was one more thing that I'm doing if you have time.

John: Sure.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: It's called the Maven project and it's a non-for-profit telehealth organization that supports free and charitable clinics and federally funded clinics. And we have peer consults, specialists can give peer-to-peer consults on difficult cases for these providers in these clinics of need. We do mentoring for healthcare folks, doctors, nurses, others, and we do medical education including a weekly or biweekly COVID education. So that's a group of seasoned physicians. And actually, we've engaged them now in our writing narrative medicine program as well. But their main program has focused on helping these free and charitable clinics by supporting their providers, their clinicians working there.

John: What would the mentoring most commonly be related to if somebody needed some help with something?

Dr. Barbara Loeb: There are two types of mentoring that I do. The first one is leadership mentoring. I use my background as a CMO and medical director for other physicians that are in these clinics that don't have the funds for professional mentors. They can't hire an agency or firm to do that. I use my professional background and I've mentored for my professional organization and others organizations. I use that background to mentor them, to help them reveal for themselves what their leadership path might be. And like in episode 93, if they're trying to make transitions, how they might do it.

And then we also do clinical mentoring. I mentor nurse practitioners that are in areas where they may have simpler clinical questions, but they don't have access to a clinical mentor right there. So, they'll present me with cases. I'm an internist for those who might not know. So, they present me with basic internal medicine cases and we just talk about what they might do. And if they need a specialty referral, I can refer them to one of our Maven project specialists, and then they can have a more in-depth conversation about the patient's issues.

John: Awesome. I will definitely put a link to the Maven project in the show notes as well. It's a lot to be doing, a lot on your plate, but it sounds like it's not stressing you out. You're feeling pretty good about

it all.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: I feel good. I think one of the things we all have in common, whether we're still pursuing a clinical career, a leadership career or other careers, because I know that's been the topic of conversation for you and other podcasts, we all have this deep desire to help other people and to share what we've learned. And these are just other pathways that I've used that I'm using to continue to do that because that also energizes me, not just the self-reflection, but what I could inspire someone else to feel or do or heal. It's very uplifting for me. Although sometimes it seems like a lot to me too, it's still very helpful in my own personal journey.

John: Very nice. I guess I wouldn't say that you're retired because you're doing so many different things. I'm supposedly retired now. I did my last clinical shift a month ago. But everyone that I've ever talked to, particularly physicians that are so-called "retired", they're as busy as they ever were. It's just how it goes.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Yeah. I always wonder what the word "retired" means. Does that mean we all went to sleep suddenly?

John: Hopefully not. Well, it might be a good sleep.

Dr. Barbara Loeb: We need the fairy dust for the prince charming to come and kiss me and wake me up.

John: Yeah. Well, before I let you go, though, we are getting to the end. I just want you to maybe think about my listeners. They're basically physicians for the most part who sometimes are frustrated, they're burnt out, they're looking for other options. Not that I really want every physician to not take care of patients because we all need physicians. But anyway, if you have any advice and basically what you've learned over the years, including the last four or five years, what advice would you have for them if they're feeling kind of frustrated and not really good?

Dr. Barbara Loeb: Well, my advice is sort of simple. I think the first step is to just take one breath and because we've been holding our breath for at least 20 months. And I also like to share this quote that sometimes is attributed to Victor Frankel. Although I hear that his family says he didn't say it, I still love the quote. "Between stimulus and response, there is a space. And in that space, we have the power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom."

What I would suggest to people is to find a moment to pause, notice, and reflect and go into that space so you can uncover really the wisdom that you most likely already have, but just haven't had the time to connect with it. And whatever it is, whether it's creativity or other things, you will be energized and move forward by that. Maybe doctors like to have a 1, 2, 3 plan of what to do, but I think we just have to stop first and allow ourselves to find what we already know. So, one breath.

John: All right, good advice. Slow down, take a breath and pay attention. Excellent. Well, Barb, I think I've taken up enough of your day so far, but we've learned a lot. I'm going to put links to everything. I would definitely say that listeners, you should visit the website. www.mind2heal.com and go to Amazon and look for the book. Again, there'll be a link to that. At mind2heal.com there are several different things that people can learn and see about the book. I think you've got some video deals where you're talking about different things related to what we've discussed today. Does that sound good? Did I miss anything?

Dr. Barbara Loeb: No, that's perfect. I really appreciate the opportunity. And it's been a lot of fun being with you again. I haven't seen you in so long. I haven't talked to you in so long. Thank you so much for allowing me to share this with the listeners. Thank you.

John: It's been my pleasure.

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The post How the Healing Power of Poetry Saved My Life – 228 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

What Are the Best Resources for Finding a Nonclinical Career? – 195

John Jurica — Tue, 11 May 2021 10:00:21 +0000

Getting Back to Basics

This week on the podcast, I decided to revisit the best resources for finding a nonclinical career. I was recently reminded that not everyone listening to this podcast has been with us since the beginning.

It is very easy for me to go deep into a very specific topic with a guest. Occasionally, it is helpful to revisit a basic question such as “How do I begin my career search?” Today we're going back to basics.

Let me explain what prompted me to choose today's topic.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete.

The Best Resources for Finding a Nonclinical Career

I received a call from someone who had read an article about nonclinical careers. The article mentioned the Physician Nonclinical Careers Podcast. And the caller asked where she should go to find out more about the topic.

So, I put together this list of low-cost starting points to begin her research. And I thought it would be a good resource for new listeners.

Here is the outline of the resources discussed in today's podcast episode:

Books

[These are Amazon affiliate links]

50 Nonclinical Careers for Physicians: Fulfilling, Meaningful, and Lucrative Alternatives to Direct Patient Care – by Sylvie Stacy, MD, MPH (2020)
The Positioned Physician: Earn More, Work Smart, and Love Medicine Again – by Michael Woo-Ming, MD, MPH (2020)
Careers Beyond Clinical Medicine – by Heidi George Moawad, MD (2013)
Beyond the Ward: A Doctor’s Guide to Careers Outside the NHS – by Dr. Paul Hercock (2018)

Podcasts

Physician Nonclinical Careers with John Jurica
Doctors Unbound – David Draghinas
Docs Outside the Box – Nii Darko, DO
The Career Rx – Marjorie Stiegler, MD
Next Level Physicians: Thriving Outside the Box – Maiysha Clairborne, MD
Rx for Success with Dr. Randy Cook
Bootstrap MD: Physician Entrepreneurs Podcast – Mike Woo-Ming, MD
EntreMD – Nneka Unachukwu, MD

COACHES (Physicians) for their WEBSITE RESOURCES

Heather Fork – doctorscrossing.com
Michelle Mudge-Riley – phphysicians.com
Starla Fitch – starlafitchmd.com
Maiyisha Clairborne – drmaiysha.com

FACEBOOK GROUPS

Physician Nonclinical Career Hunters – John Jurica and Laura McKain – 16,000 members
Physician Side Gigs – Nisha Mehta – 76,000 members
Alternative Careers for Doctors – 24,000 members
Remote Careers for Physicians – Jonathan Vitale – 8,000 members

Summary

One more website:

Heidi Moawad's Nonclinical Doctors – nonclinicaldoctors.com

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode that you can download or read.

Links for Today's Episode:

50 Nonclinical Careers for Physicians by Sylvie Stacy
The Positioned Physician: Earn More, Work Smart, and Love Medicine Again by Michael Woo-Ming
Careers Beyond Clinical Medicine by Heidi George Moawad
Beyond the Ward: A Doctor’s Guide to Careers Outside the NHS by Paul Hercock
Doctors Crossing Website by Heather Fork
Physicians Helping Physicians Website by Michelle Mudge-Riley
Starla Fitch MD Website
Dr. Maiysha Website by Maiyisha Clairborne

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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Transcription - PNC Episode 195

What Are the Best Resources for Finding a Nonclinical Career?

All right, let's get right into the best resources for finding a nonclinical career. And these are the low-cost research sources. These are the things you probably should start with if you're just getting started. And then once you get into it, you can get into some other types of resources, tools, and so forth. But let's start with books, podcasts, coaches. And really, I don't think I'm going to recommend the first thing you do is get a coach. But if you go to these coaches' websites, you're going to get a lot of information there, a lot of things that you can learn that are low cost. Facebook groups are another one. I might mention some other things at the end, some courses, memberships or professional societies, if I have time.

All right, let's start with books. Shouldn't that be the first and easiest place to start? There are a number of books out there, not as many as you might think. I'm not going to go in any particular order, perhaps reverse chronological in some ways, but I'm going to start with those who have been authored by people that I personally know and have talked to.

So, I would definitely get a copy of "50 Nonclinical Careers for Physicians: Fulfilling, Meaningful, and Lucrative Alternatives to Direct Patient Care" by Sylvie Stacey. That book came out in 2020. It was really about a year old if that, and it lists literally 50 nonclinical careers and then some. There's like an extra section for those that start their own business and things like that. There's a lot of types of careers and side jobs and full-time jobs and so forth that even I have not addressed on the podcast in the last 193 episodes. So, it's really probably the most popular book currently.

I also like to mention "The Positioned Physician: Earn More, Work Smart, and Love Medicine Again" by Michael Woo-Ming. This came out originally about three years ago, but I think he's got the updated second edition in 2020. So, that's more for the entrepreneurial type of person, but he's talking about things like weight loss, clinics, med spas, things like that, as well as consulting.

Then I have to go back to "Careers Beyond Clinical Medicine" by Heidi George Moawad. Dr. Moawad is a neurologist and she had her book published in 2013 by a traditional publisher that usually publishes textbooks. And it has a lot of information that was very thoroughly researched and I would definitely recommend that.
Oh, by the way, I didn't mention so much Sylvie Stacey, who wrote the "50 Nonclinical Careers" book. Again, she's been on the podcast. I'll probably put links to those episodes with those authors in the show notes.

Sylvia Stacey's background is mostly in public health but she was the founder of Look for Zebras, which is still out there. Although I don't believe Sylvie is still affiliated with that, she is definitely the author of the book.

All right. So, three books so far. And number four, I'm going to mention "Beyond the Ward: A Doctor's Guide to Careers Outside the NHS", partly because I interviewed Dr. Paul Hercock for the podcast, and he talked about his book partly because it's something for those in the UK. So, it's a little different from the others, which are geared more towards work in the United States. It's also a really good overview of working within the pharmaceutical industry and actually medical devices, which is really more of his background. So that's another great book to pick up.

I think most of these have Kindle versions. I like to get the hard copy if I can because I often refer back to them. Anyway, those are five books, a very low-cost way to find out about dozens and dozens and dozens of nonclinical careers, what it takes. And there's a lot of inspiration in there as well.
Next, I'm going to mention some podcasts. When you're a podcaster, you get to meet a lot of other podcasters and we often interview one another. Most of us don't have a hundred percent overlap in what we're doing. So, in some of these podcasts, you may listen and go, well, that wasn't really about a nonclinical career, but it likely is going to be something related, it might be how to get into a passive income type of side job or a side gig. There might be some inspirational stories about physicians who have done unusual things.

So, besides this podcast, Physician NonClinical Careers with John Jurica, I would say here's the list that I would start with. And most of them will have different interviews with people or just solo episodes about something related to careers or side jobs or side gigs, or maybe even hobbies.
I'm kind of going back chronologically here. So, Docs Outside The Box was probably the first podcast that I heard that dealt with a similar topic to mine. Nil Darko has done a lot. He's been out there for a while. Nii Darko is a trauma surgeon. He's written a book about how to podcast and done other things, and he continues to podcast on a regular basis. And so, this is a great one. Docs Outside The Box with Nii Darko.

These are all physicians by the way. Dr. David Draghinas is an anesthesiologist. He does the Doctors Unbound Podcast. So, if you haven't listened to that, it's definitely one you'd want to check out.

Marjorie Stiegler has a podcast called The Career Rx or The Career Prescription. It's awesome. She does a great job. She focuses a lot on marketing and branding and building authority and that kind of thing, but she talks about a lot of different careers and she happens to be an expert on pharma careers as well, because I think she's still working as a medical director in a pharmaceutical company.

And then we have one of my friends, Maiysha Clairborne, who does the Next Level Physicians: Thriving Outside the Box Podcast. She's a well-known coach and she's been doing her podcasts for a year or two. And she typically talks about mindset and other issues related to doing new things in your life and in your career.

Now there's one that I'm less familiar with which is the Rx For Success with Dr. Randy Cook. He is a part of the Doctor Podcast Network, which is the network that I am part of. And I'm absolutely certain, in fact, I think I haven't set a date, but he's on my list and he knows it and he'll be coming on the podcast some time in the next eight weeks I'm thinking. So, I would definitely check that. I've listened to a lot of the episodes and I think they're really good.

Then I mentioned Mike Woo-Ming's book, and you've got BootstrapMD Physician Entrepreneurs Podcast with Mike Woo-Ming. You definitely want to listen to that. He goes into a lot of things related to entrepreneurship and side gigs and making money on the side and full time and things like that.

And then I could go on, there's a lot of other podcasters out there, but I really do have to mention Dr. Nneka Unachukwu, who's been on my podcast twice. She once came on as a guest. And then I actually asked her to interview me about the Clinician's Career Cooperative back about six months ago or so, but EntreMD podcast with Dr. Una.

So those are some that I would definitely want you to check out if you're looking for just podcasts. You can search through those. There's a lot of potential listening there, but you should be able to tell from the titles, which of those would be most appropriate for what you're doing.

Now I did mention earlier that I was going to talk about coaches. I've probably met at least two dozen coaches and have friendships and professional relationships with most of them. I think coaching is awesome and you should have no trouble finding a coach.
I guess I'll digress for one minute and say that if you want to think about getting a coach, there are many physician coaches. Some are wellness coaches, some are burnout coaches, some are lifestyle or life coaches. Some are business, some are executive coaches. And some of them do all the above or overlap.

I think most of them would be more than happy to do a short intake or a short "get to know you" type of call. Sometimes they call it a discovery call. But I think you should actually talk to a coach before you commit to signing up with them. They'll give you references usually. But again, I'm mentioning them today primarily because of their websites where they usually have a lot of good things to read or download. Most of them have a lot of things going on there that might be helpful.

For example, Heather Fork. She's got a website, she's got a podcast. I should've mentioned her above, but you definitely want to check her out and check both her podcast and her website out, which has a lot of free material. And she also sells a course on how to write your resume. And it's not a video course. I think it's all written, there might be some videos involved, but it's really comprehensive. And it talks about the words you should use and the structure and how to do a cover letter. And so, you definitely want to check out Heather Fork. She's at doctorscrossing.com.

Michelle Mudge-Riley does Physicians Helping Physicians. She's been doing live courses for the last two years. I think she's done at least four or five of them in the last year or two. And although some of those were online as opposed to face-to-face. But she does have Physicians Helping Physicians. She's got a website, she's got her courses and she might still be doing some coaching, but it's really, again because of the website and the fact that she has been working in this field for so long.

Starla Fitch is a well-known coach. She's been around a while. And I would go to her website and just see what she's got posted there. Just look her up on Google Starla Fitch. Again, Dr. Starla Fitch.

And then Maiysha Clairborne, as I mentioned earlier with her website and she's also a coach, but she has a lot of different resources available, besides her direct coaching. She has a podcast and she also has written material and blog posts and guest posts. Her website is drmaiysha.com.

So those would be at least four good websites to review.

And as you get into any of these things, you'll hear other people mentioned. I would advise you to just check them out and see if any of them sound like they would resonate with you, either their content or their actual coaching services.

Now I should mention some Facebook groups. The first one is Physician Nonclinical Career Hunters Facebook group founded by Dr. Laura McCain back about four years ago. And I am one of the admins. Laura brought me on after the site had been up for about a year. And we're at about 16,000 physician members at the moment. And there's a lot of discussion in there about nonclinical careers and many of the coaches I've mentioned. And many, many others are in there. They respond to questions.

It is possible to post things in there anonymously. The way you do that is you direct message me or Laura McCain, and we will take whatever you'd like to post and put it in there. Now we do not allow you to sell anything. So again, this is just for helping physicians.

The other big one out there is Physician Side Gigs. It's a private Facebook group that is run by Dr. Nisha Mehta. It has about 76,000 physician members. All of these groups have international members in them. Although they vary in the amount that is mostly US-based, they're open to pretty much everyone who qualifies to be a member. You have to be very careful. You can't put anything in the Physician Side Gigs without the permission of the moderators in there as far as any kind of sales at all.

There's another one that I haven't spent much time in. I believe I'm a member of Alternative Careers for Doctors. It has 24,000 members. So again, it's a pretty active group that has been out there a few years. You might check that out.

And then there's Remote Careers for Physicians. Jonathan Vitale has started that one. It's got over 8,000 members already, and it's only been around about a year or so. That one focuses a little bit more on remote careers. And there are other Facebook groups where they do focus on a specific niche career. Let's say something like that.

There are some groups on LinkedIn. Although they don't really seem to be all that active. I do publish notices of my podcast episodes on LinkedIn and some of those groups, but the amount of engagement is limited. There is some engagement, but it's not as robust and as brisk as in the Facebook groups.

I'm getting near the end now and I'll say there's some other things. There are courses out there. There are memberships out there that you can join. I don't know that any would be a starting point. Forums. The Clinician Career Cooperative has been kind of in a holding pattern, but we're going to be pushing that and opening that back up and promoting that in the very near future.

But I would say certain professional societies can be very, very helpful to get started. So, this is just off the top of my head. Of course, I'm very fond of the American Association for Physician Leadership. The AAPL. I've been a member since the 90s. I'm on one of the sub-committees, for the certified physician executive designation. But it's a group of physicians for physicians by physicians that talk mostly about leadership and management. And of course, that applies to a lot of different industries. So, it's a place where you can get a lot of good information. The membership is very inexpensive. The courses tend to be a little on the expensive side, but really nothing out of bounds in terms of the level of the cost compared to other professional societies, I would say.

There are other groups like the AMWA - American Medical Writers Association. It's not just physicians, but there's a lot of content in there for physicians if you're looking to become a medical writer. There are associations for medical directors and physician advisors I've talked about in the past. I can't think of any other particular professional societies that I would mention at this point. Heidi Moawad, who wrote the book that I mentioned at the beginning, has a site called nonclinicaldoctors.com. It has jobs on it, and it has articles and I think even some videos.

So, I think those are the main resources that I would start with if I were starting out right now. There is a lot to look at, a lot to listen to in that list. And so, I guess I don't want to totally overwhelm you today. If I've missed anything glaring, I'm sorry. I know I have some associates and colleagues that probably do some awesome stuff that I failed to mention today. So, feel free to drop me a note or an email or something if I've missed somebody and I'll talk about it next time.

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How to Create Uncommon Success In Business and In Life – 187

John Jurica — Tue, 16 Mar 2021 10:00:24 +0000

Interview with John Lee Dumas of Entrepreneurs on Fire Podcast

In this week’s episode, John Lee Dumas, of Entrepreneurs on Fire, explains what it takes to create uncommon success.

JLD is the founder and host of the award-winning podcast, Entrepreneurs On Fire. With over 1 million monthly listens and 7-figures of annual revenue, he is spreading Entrepreneurial FIRE on a global scale.

His first traditionally published book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success is available for pre-order now at UncommonSuccessBook.com

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete.

By joining the UT Physician Executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills you need to find a career that you really love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office at (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Podcasting Icon

JLD is an icon in podcasting. He created his online empire starting with his daily podcast, now with over 3000 episodes. And anyone producing a podcast, or any online platform from blog to YouTube channel, will do well to emulate what he has done and what he shares with us each day on his show.

Most people are going to die in this world, having never identified their Big Idea. – John Lee Dumas

During our interview, he gave us a glimpse into his story and how it is reflected in the book. For example, 10 years ago, when he started out, he knew he wanted to produce a podcast. But he wanted to really stand out, so he did his research. He decided to focus on a topic in the business realm. But as he describes in the interview, he needed to niche down so he could dominate in his chosen subject. So he decided to focus on podcasts dealing with entrepreneurs.

You are going to win by creating the best solution to a real problem. – John Lee Dumas

But there were 7 such podcasts already addressing the topic. So, he niched down further, becoming the one and only DAILY podcast dedicated to bringing stories about entrepreneurial topics to his listeners every single day – something nobody else was doing.

How to Create Uncommon Success

Here are some of the 17 steps to create uncommon success that he mentions during our interview:

Find your BIG IDEA and your Zone of Fire (Chapter #1)
Overcome existing competition by discovering your niche – a void not being filled by anyone else (Chapter #2)
JLD's favorite chapter: creating a content production plan with Kate Erickson (Chapter #7)
The final chapter: keeping the money you make with Remit Sethi (Chapter #17)

This is the culmination of his 3,000 interviews, all boiled down. These are the tactics he has used to achieve success. And, according to JLD, the book outlines in detail how to implement the right tactics as you follow his 17 steps to create uncommon success.

Summary

I am so glad I was able to connect with JLD. He tossed out numerous value-bombs for us to consider. And I enjoyed getting a glimpse of what went into writing and publishing the book.

I recommend you pre-order a copy now because there are many awesome bonuses that disappear after the 23rd of March. They include a copy of the Podcast Journal, Mastery Journal, and Freedom Journal, each one a bestseller itself.

NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode that you can download or read right here.

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Today's PNC Podcast Transcript

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PNC Podcast Episode 187

How to Create Uncommon Success in Business and In Life

Interview with John Lee Dumas

John: I really love guests who can teach us something, who can inspire us and also have some resources for us to take advantage of. And so today my guest is John Lee Dumas. You podcasters will know this guy for sure, JLD. And with that, I want to welcome you to the podcast, John. Thanks for coming.

John Lee Dumas: I am fired up to be here. Thank you for having me. I love everything you have going on and you promise you're going to play the guitar later. So that's pretty fun.

John: Yeah, I'll do that right after you take off. All right. Well, we're going to get right into it. Part of the reason you're here is because you have a new book, which by the way, I've already pre-ordered and started to access the bonuses. So, we have to talk about that in a few minutes, but first I need to pick your brain.

One of the things that I hear from you from time to time is talking about this Zone of Fire. So, can you explain that concept to us?

John Lee Dumas: Most people are going to die in this world having never identified their big idea. I mean, it is literally within all of us, we all have a big idea. It is unique to us, just like a snowflake is unique, your big idea is unique to you. And all it takes is for you to sit down and really identify and uncover that big idea, because that is your Zone of Fire. That is what you want to be waking up every single day, excited to dive into and work the kind of work that you want. That lights your soul on fire. This excites you.

And guess what? This world needs more of that. This world needs more people waking up every day fired up to live in their Zone of Fire, to identify what that big idea is and execute it every single day. The world needs less of people waking up miserable, going to do something they really don't want to do or are burned out doing. We need the prior less of the latter.

John: That's awesome. There's no question about it. It's something that maybe when you wake up in the morning, you're not dreading, but you're actually looking forward to it and you jump out of bed and you want to do it. But that’s not enough because I think this is mentioned in your book. I heard you talking with Chris Ducker and some others in anticipation of this call. So, what does it take beyond just that Zone of Fire?

John Lee Dumas: So, here's the problem. So many people will identify their big idea. They'll identify their Zone of Fire and they get really excited and they're going to be like, “Oh yes, this is the thing. It's a great idea”. And guess what? It really is a great idea, but it is just step 1 of a 17 several map. That's it. So, it's like 5% of this journey. And so many people will just stop there and just be like, “Okay, I've got my big idea. Let's go”. But guess what? Their big idea is a great idea. Therefore, other people have identified that. Other people are living your big idea right now. You have competition that is crushing it right now in your big idea, which is a good thing if you look at it with the right mindset. Because that's proof of concept, that is validation that your big idea can really be something cool in this world. Something exciting, a real business, a lifestyle.

But here's the problem. You're going to be like a lamb walking into slaughter if you just identify this big idea and go all in because there's entrenched competition. So, you got to go to step 2 in this process of the 17 steps and you've got to discover the niche. Now, what do I mean by that? There's a void within your big idea that is not being filled. There's a market within your big idea that is not being served. And it's small, but guess what? It's an opportunity. It's going to give you the opportunity to get momentum, traction, to actually get moving forward. That is the niche that you need to discover. This can allow you to get that initial proof of concept, that initial traction, that initial momentum like a real quick step back.

My big idea back in 2012 was to launch a podcast. I would've gotten slaughtered. So, I niched down into the business podcasts. Okay, there's hundreds of them. Niche down a third time into a podcast interviewing successful entrepreneurs. Okay, there were seven. But still do I want to be the eighth best podcast interviewing entrepreneurs? I want you to be the best. So, what were they missing? What was a void in that entrepreneurial interview podcast space? Well, everybody was doing one day a week. What if I 10 X their quantity and became the first daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs?

Filling a void that I knew existed because I knew there were other people like me who wanted to listen to a podcast every day of an entrepreneur. And so, I filled that void and you and I are talking now 10 years later, 3,000 episodes later, a hundred million listens later, over 1.4 million listens because I found a void, I found a niche and I filled it. And by the way, I've turned that into a thriving media empire business as well that's generated well over $20 million since the launch of this podcast.

John: That's crazy. I think I'm going to do two podcasts a day. How about that? Will I get to where you are in a few years doing that?

John Lee Dumas: We'll be talking about that soon. We'll talk about it.

John: All right. Well, I have a ton of other questions, but it seems like every question I asked you is kind of related to something in the book. So, we kind of touched on what? The first two chapters of the 17. So, just go ahead and lay it all out for us any way you'd like to. Because I know as you describe what's in the book, we're just going to pick up these pearls. So, let's just do it.

John Lee Dumas: Well, let's just talk about my favorite chapter. Step seven, chapter seven. The average chapter in this book is 3,500 words. That's the average. This chapter is 13,500. It's like 5 X. All the other chapters combined. Just this alone is 5 X the average chapter, this one chapter. It is a business book in and of itself. And this is creating a content production plan. And this is going to be specifically relevant to your audience by the way, because listen, your audience is busy. They have jobs, they're doing this or doing that. They have a lot of things going on. What they need desperately is a content production plan.

So that time that they do have, that hour, that 30 minutes, that 90 minutes, whatever it is per day, to create the content they need to be creating has to be efficient, has to be planned, has to be repurposed, has to be so meaningful. And so, this 13,500-word chapter step seven, chapter seven, “Creating Content Production Plan”. That is the chapter your audience needs. I'm telling you they need to do chapters one through six to make sure they are ready for chapter seven. But once they get to chapter seven, hold onto those afterburners, because this is the book for you.

John: So, is this the secret behind execution, at least for an online business?

John Lee Dumas: So, what this is, is the culmination of the 3,000 interviews that I've done with over thousands of thousands and thousands of hours of these conversations boiling down to the 17 core foundational principles that all these entrepreneurs have been executing for decades and decades and saying, “Hey, these are the foundational principles that make a successful business. That turns somebody from a common success to an uncommon success”. Like let's get you there. So, this is the roadmap to follow for that. And it's not inspirational. It's not motivational. These are tactics. These are strategies that work in real businesses right now.

John: All right. So, this is the “How-to”. So, that's going to be fantastic because I think a lot of people are inspired, but it's the “How-to” that they lack. And especially if they've never done anything like this. Well, tell us why we should buy the book now? I bought it on pre-order because of all the bonuses, it was one of the reasons, but tell us about that process and when does it actually come out? Let's go from there.

John Lee Dumas: So, the book is released March 23rd, but like you're amazing host here do not to wait for March 23rd because we have five insane pre-order bonuses for anybody that pre-orders. And they all disappear by March 23rd. But just one of those pre-order bonuses, I'm shipping all three of my journals, The Freedom, Mastery and Podcast Journal to your door. We won't get into details about them. Just know that they are amazing, awesome journals. One is going to accomplish your number one goal in a hundred days. Another one is going to help you master productivity, discipline, and focus in a hundred days. The other one's going to help you create and launch your podcast, if you so desire in 50 days.

And this is the one bonus of five, that is absolutely insane. Because again, on my dime, I'm shipping all three of them to your door if you live in the USA. For those people outside of the USA, I still love you. I'm sending you immediate access to the digital packs via email which you’ll get, they are amazing, billable.

And then there are four other insane bonuses at uncommonsuccessbook.com. When you go there, you'll see the endorsements from Seth Godin, Gary Vaynerchuk, Neil Patel, Eric and Mandy Dorie Clark. I have a whole chapter there, chapter one. You can read it to see if you jive with my writing style. There's a video there of me explaining in more details about the book, explanations of all five bonuses, uncommonsuccessbook.com.

John: I probably would have just taken my time and bought the book. When I saw the bonuses, I'm like, you got to be kidding. Those journals have been out and have been so popular and I thought, “Oh, this is going to be my chance”. I already got one, but I didn’t get the other two. And then I've already looked at a couple of the videos, everything is fantastic. They're great. And the people you interview, of course, most of us know who they are. They are so well-known and they're experts.

Well, I'm excited. I want to read the book. I can't wait for the 23rd. So, I don’t know, I guess at this point, I just wonder if you have any last advice for physicians or anyone who's thinking of trying something new. How do you close the book out exactly? Maybe I'd want to get a little preview of that.

John Lee Dumas: Well, how I close the book out real quick is the final step, the final chapter is “Keep the money you make”, which believe me is so much harder than most people think. They look at these people that are making millions of dollars and are like, “They must have it made in the shade”.

Those people are struggling, not all of them, but they're struggling because guess what? After payroll and after expenses and after infrastructure and office space and taxes and all this jazz, there's never any money left over, believe me, unless you know how to do it, unless you know how to actually keep the money you make. So, I get into all the details there. I brought in a great financial guru. His name is Rami Satie, fantastic entrepreneur when it comes to that stuff. And it's just such an important chapter. That's how we close things out. Because listen, if you're going to work that hard to actually be making all this money by chapter 16, step 16, let's teach you how to keep that money that you're making, please. Like that is my final gift to you.

And the thing I want to end off is, is like this. You are going to win by creating the best solution to a real problem. So, whether you're a physician and you want to maintain there and you want to just find a better niche within that, when you become the best solution to a real problem, people beat a path to your door. Period. You see it in the physician world all the time.

And if you're looking to do a side hustle and kind of get out and expand your horizons and try something new and try this online entrepreneurial business world, that's the way you do it. You identify a void in the marketplace that needs a solution and you become the best solution to that problem. And people will find you, they will beat a path to your doorstep and you will win because you're the best. People don't want the second best. They don't want the 10th best. They want the best solution to a real problem that they have. Be that number one solution.

John: Very cool. “The Common Path to Uncommon Success” it's at uncommonsuccessbook.com. Check it out. I thank you so much for being in here today, JLD. I really appreciate the time and just sharing your wisdom with us. Thanks so much.

John Lee Dumas: Thanks, John. I appreciate you.

John: Alright, take care. Bye-bye.

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This Is How to Publish Your First Book – 182

John Jurica — Tue, 09 Feb 2021 11:00:30 +0000

Interview with Dr. Mandy Armitage

This week Dr. Mandy Armitage explains how to publish your first book. You might recall that she was interviewed in Episode #22 about medical writing.

She returns now to promote her new book and teach you how to self-publish your first book.

Mandy is a board-certified physiatrist, freelance medical writer, and consultant. Prior to transitioning to nonclinical work, she practiced musculoskeletal medicine.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country. It has over 700 graduates. And, the program only takes one year to complete.

Mandy earned her MD from Indiana University School of Medicine. She then completed her PM&R Residency at Carolinas Healthcare System. Then she followed that with a Sports Medicine Fellowship at Emory University.

She was a guest on the podcast almost three years ago to talk about medical writing. In addition to writing, she has worked as Medical Director for several health technology start-ups.

Publishing Her Book

Now she is back doing freelance medical writing and coaching other clinicians. And she just released a new book called From Clinical Practice to Medical Writing: A Career Transition Guide.

I enjoyed hearing about Dr. Armitage’s decision to write a book. During our interview, she walks us through the major steps she took to publish it:

Deciding on the goal of the book and creating an outline.
Writing the major content over a period of several months.
Engaging a series of editors to review the manuscript.
Hiring help with the internal design and structure of the content (including chapters, headings, subheadings, etc.).
Putting the files together and in the proper format (pdf, ePub, etc.).
Hiring someone to help with the cover design and text.
Putting it all together to create the final document in hard copy and electronic format.
Promoting the book.

Publish Your First Book

Mandy described the three ways an author can choose to go:

Traditional publishing
Hybrid publishing
Self-publishing

Traditional publishing is a difficult route for a first book. It generally involves hiring an agent and submitting manuscripts to multiple publishers. The publisher then owns the rights to the book and may edit it in any way it wishes.

Hybrid publishing involves engaging a firm that will help with editing and designing your book. The author will continue to control the manuscript. But the publisher will not provide an advance and will limit its marketing efforts.

With self-publishing, the author maintains complete control and will earn more on each book sold. However, the author will pay all expenses, including editing, marketing, and printing.

If you're driven and you want to make it happen, you can absolutely do it. – Dr. Mandy Armitage

Like many authors publishing a book to a niche audience, Mandy considered hybrid and self-published approaches. She chose the latter and maintains complete control.

Summary

The book is an excellent overview of the material Mandy has been teaching for years. It walks the clinician through these topics:

The types of medical writing.
How to prepare to become a writer.
How to build a freelance writing business.
The expected income a writer can achieve.
Answers to frequently asked questions about medical writing.

I encourage you to visit armitagemedicalwriting.com and purchase the book.

If you’d like to learn more about medical writing, check out my introductory course at nonclinicalphysicians.com/writingcourse.

Links for Today's Episode:

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Disclaimers:

The post This Is How to Publish Your First Book – 182 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

Why Should I Invest in a Passive Private Real Estate Deal? – 154

John Jurica — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 16:31:55 +0000

Interview with Dr. Peter Kim

In this week's PNC Podcast episode, we learn why private real estate deals are a great way to diversify income. And investing in real estate makes a very nice part-time side hustle.

Earlier this year, I was a participant in the Leverage & Growth Virtual Summit, organized by Dr. Peter Kim from Passive Income MD. It was a unique experience with about 50 experts providing valuable teaching over 2 weeks. I had a lot of fun participating as faculty. I also enjoyed watching the other videos that were posted. Many of you told me you found it helpful and inspirational.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

The UT PEMBA is the longest-running, and most highly respected physician-only MBA in the country, with over 650 graduates. And, unlike other programs, which typically run 1 – 1/2 to 2 years, this program only takes a year to complete. Recently, Economist Magazine ranked the business school #1 in the world for the Most Relevant Executive MBA.

While in the program, you'll participate in a company project, thereby contributing to your organization. As a result, the University of Tennessee PEMBA students bring exceptional value to their organizations.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations. And they've become entrepreneurs and business owners.

By joining the University of Tennessee physician executive MBA, you will develop the business and management skills needed to find a career that you really love. To find out more, contact Dr. Kate Atchley’s office by calling (865) 974-6526 or go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

Private Real Estate Investing Is a Great Side Hustle

I wanted to get Peter on the podcast to learn more about his background, and his online ventures. Is he still practicing? Why did he create Passive Income MD? What new projects has he developed? Why is passive private real estate investing such a good side hustle?

As I have interacted with physicians seeking nonclinical careers, I found that many achieve fulfillment and balance by starting side hustles to complement their clinical careers. You’ll remember, perhaps, that Peter Steinberg really loved his work as an expert witness, while still practicing urology. And Dave Draghinas balances his practice with his podcast and short-term real estate investing. Ideally, we ought to be passionate about these endeavors and they should help diversify our income.

Today, Peter discusses several important topics:

Why we should diversify our income streams;
Why private real estate investing is such a popular choice for passive income;
Which real estate investing options are ideal for busy professionals; and,
The Passive Real Estate Academy that he and his team have relaunched this month, and why you should enroll.

Peter really knows real estate, and it is so cool that he has spent the time and energy to create a place where we can learn from his successes and failures.

To learn more about his course, go to nonclinicalphysicians.com/prea (this is an affiliate link).

SUMMARY

Peter provides a brief explanation as to why generating passive income using private real estate deals is such an important topic to consider. It is easy to learn. Most physicians have incomes to make it an appropriate investment. It will help us hedge against possible job loss or cutbacks as we've during the COVID-19 pandemic.

And for a very short time, you can have access to a free Webinar, or consider joining his Passive Real Estate Academy, where he'll teach you everything you need to know about creating a passive income stream with certain types of real estate investments.

Links for Today's Episode

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

The Clinicians Career Cooperative Is Live

This is the ONLINE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS for nonclinical and unconventional clinical jobs and side gigs. It's a FORUM where you can ask questions of experts in multiple careers. We have some of the most influential names in career transition to mentor members in the Cooperative, including Maiysha Clairborne, Michelle Mudge-Riley, Tom Davis, Marjorie Stiegler, Phil Boucher, Mike Woo-Ming, Jarret Patton, Jill Wener, Christopher Loo, Lisa Jenks, Mandy Armitage, and Brent Lacey

There is an automatic Free Trial. So, this is a no-risk opportunity to connect with experts and begin your career transition today.

To check it out, head to the Clinicians Career Cooperative.

Imagine what it will be like 6 to 12 months from now to start a fulfilling career, and leave behind the headaches, long hours, and constant threat of a lawsuit. Joining the Cooperative is the first step on that journey!

So head over to the Clinicians Career Cooperative.

The Nonclinical Career Academy Membership Program recently added a new MasterClass!

I've created 16 courses and placed them all in an exclusive, low-cost membership program. The program provides an introduction to dozens of nontraditional careers, with in-depth lessons on several of them. It even includes my full MSL Course. There is a money-back guarantee, so there is no risk to signing up. And I'll add more courses each and every month.

Check out the home page for the Academy at nonclinicalphysicians.com/joinnca.

Thanks to our sponsor…

Thanks to the UT Physician Executive MBA program for sponsoring the show. It’s an outstanding, highly rated, MBA program designed for working physicians. It is just what you need to prepare for that fulfilling, well-paying career. You can find out more at nonclinicalphysicians.com/physicianmba.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Disclaimers:

Many of the links that I refer you to, and that you’ll find in the show notes, are affiliate links. That means that I receive a payment from the seller if you purchase the affiliate item using my link. Doing so has no effect on the price you are charged. And I only promote products and services that I believe are of high quality and will be useful to you, that I have personally used or am very familiar with.

The information presented on this blog and related podcast is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. It should not be construed as medical, legal, tax, or emotional advice. If you take action on the information provided on the blog or podcast, it is at your own risk. Always consult an attorney, accountant, career counselor, or other professional before making any major decisions about your career.

The post Why Should I Invest in a Passive Private Real Estate Deal? – 154 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

9 Excellent Books That Will Help Launch Your New Career – 153

John Jurica — Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:30:59 +0000

Getting Back to Basics

In this episode of the PNC podcast, John describes nine excellent books that will help educate you as you begin your career journey.

The first two books will get you in the right frame of mind. And they provide tools to help you to overcome the self-limiting beliefs that might hold you back. Then John presents four books written to assist you in your selection of a nonclinical career.

The last three of these excellent books are written to assist in your transition to a personal-brand business, freelance consulting, a cash-only business, or locum tenens. A locums job can be permanent, or a bridge to your nonclinical career.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations. And they've become entrepreneurs and business owners.

Links to the Nine Excellent Books

Here are links to the nine excellent books described in this episode (most of these are affiliate links):

SUMMARY

If you're just getting started on your career transition, these nine excellent books will provide the tools you need to take your first steps.

At a minimum, you should first read either Jenny Blake's Pivot or Gay Hendricks' The Big Leap. Then move to Michael McLaughlin's book, followed by Hiedi Moawad's book Careers Beyond Clinical Medicine and Sylvie Stacy's 50 Nonclinical Careers for Physicians. Finally, if you decide to follow one of these paths, then read the book listed below:

Personal Brand Entrepreneur – Rise of the Youpreneur by Chris Ducker
Freelance Consulting or Cash-Based Clinical Business – The Positioned Physician by Michael A. Woo-Ming
Locum Tenens – The Locum Life by Andrew Willner.

Links for Today's Episode

See the above book images to learn more about each one.

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

The Clinicians Career Cooperative Is Live

Maiysha Clairborne
Michelle Mudge-Riley
Tom Davis
Marjorie Stiegler
Phil Boucher
Mike Woo-Ming
Jarret Patton
Jill Wener
Christopher Loo
Lisa Jenks
Mandy Armitage
Brent Lacey

There is an automatic Free Trial. So, this is a no-risk opportunity to connect with experts and begin your career transition today.

To check it out, head to the Clinicians Career Cooperative.

So head over to the Clinicians Career Cooperative.

The Nonclinical Career Academy Membership Program recently added a new MasterClass!

Check out the home page for the Academy at nonclinicalphysicians.com/joinnca.

Thanks to our sponsor…

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Disclaimers:

The post 9 Excellent Books That Will Help Launch Your New Career – 153 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.

50 Outstanding Ways to Dump an Awful Career for a Bright One – 147

John Jurica — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 13:12:05 +0000

Interview with Dr. Sylvie Stacy

In this episode of the PNC podcast, Dr. Sylvie Stacy returns to discuss how physicians can dump an awful career and find a career that is right for them. She also tells us about her brand-new book 50 Nonclinical Careers for Physicians.

Sylvie was a guest on the show for the first time almost two years ago. Since then, her blog, Look for Zebras, has grown. And she has created a Nonclinical Career Quiz and published her long-awaited book.

Our Sponsor

We're proud to have the University of Tennessee Physician Executive MBA Program, offered by the Haslam College of Business, as the sponsor of this podcast.

Graduates have taken leadership positions at major healthcare organizations. And they've become entrepreneurs and business owners.

Look for Zebras

The name of Sylvie’s blog comes from a saying common in medicine that goes, “When you hear hoofbeats, look for horses, not for zebras.” Sylvie says to do the exact opposite in your career.

In too many situations, doctors settle for what she calls the horse careers. Horse careers may be stressful and unrewarding; they may not compensate well or offer room for advancement; they may not value your specific skill set, but they are easy to come by.

Instead, Sylvie says that physicians looking to dump an awful career should look for zebras. Zebra careers are the rare opportunities that perfectly fit your interest in skills, help you achieve work-life balance, compensate you fairly, and make you feel valued.

“For many physicians who aren't really satisfied with their current jobs, a transition to a nonclinical career may be an excellent solution for the frustration that they're facing. But for others, really all they need is a change to a different type of organization that has a different culture.” – Dr. Sylvie Stacy

Find the Right Career for You

Now, Sylvie has added another resource to Looking for Zebras: the Nonclinical Careers Quiz. This personality-based assessment asks 50 questions, such as:

What type of work makes you feel most rewarded?
What activities do you enjoy participating in?
Are you introverted or extroverted?
How do you enjoy spending your free time?
Are you willing to travel for your job?
Is it important for you to be able to work from home?

After completing the questionnaire, you receive a nonclinical career option that should align with your skills and interests. Included is a job description and a list of some typical responsibilities of the position. Pursuing it will certainly help you dump an awful career.

Read the Book and Dump an Awful Career

Lastly, Sylvie discusses her recently released book, 50 Nonclinical Careers for Physicians: Fulfilling, Meaningful, and Lucrative Alternatives to Direct Patient Care.

She wrote the book to help physicians:

Understand what nonclinical career options are available to them,
Help them match their skillsets to the right opportunity, and
Distinguish the important differences between careers, which can frequently be lumped together under the nonclinical umbrella.

In each of the ten major sections of the book, Sylvie also included a profile of a professional working in that field.

Summary

In the episode, Sylvie also answers questions common for physicians who want to dump an awful career and find a new one. She offers suggestions to those trapped in the mindset that they are unqualified to take on a new role, and those who feel a moral obligation to practice medicine, even in the face of their unhappiness and burnout.

Links for Today's Episode

Look for Zebras Web Site
L4Z Clinical Career Quiz
50 Nonclinical Careers for Physicians by Sylvie Stacy [affiliate link]
Nonclinical Career Academy

Download This Episode:

Right Click Here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.

The Clinicians Career Cooperative Official Launch Was June 1, 2020.

This is the ONLINE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS for nonclinical, and unconventional clinical, jobs and side gigs. We have started with some of the most influential names in clinical career transition, including:

Maiysha Clairborne
Michelle Mudge-Riley
Tom Davis
Marjorie Stiegler
Phil Boucher
Mike Woo-Ming
Jarret Patton
Jill Wener
Christopher Loo
Lisa Jenks
Mandy Armitage
Brent Lacey

There is an automatic 7-day Free Trial. So, this is a no-risk opportunity to connect with experts and begin your career transition today.

To check it out, head to the Clinicians Career Cooperative.

Follow 4 Easy Steps:

After clicking the link and heading to the Cooperative and watching the Welcome Video…

click the Teal Colored JOIN NOW button, then,
select the annual or monthly membership by clicking the Sign-Up Link, then
add your registration information, and
click REGISTER HERE to join the Cooperative.

It's that simple.

So head over to the Clinicians Career Cooperative.

The Nonclinical Career Academy Membership Program just added a new MasterClass!

Mike Woo-Ming's 4-Part Masterclass about freelance consulting.
Writing Masterclass with Charlotte Weeks.
Locum Tenens Masterclass with Dr. Andrew Wilner
Nontraditional Careers: Cash-only Practice, Telemedicine
Hospital and Health System Jobs
Pharma Careers
Home-based jobs
Preparing for an interview, and using LinkedIn
And more…

And to make it even easier, listeners to this podcast can get a one-month Trial for only $1.00, using the Coupon Code TRIAL at nonclinicalphysicians.com/joinnca.

Thanks to our sponsor…

If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it on Twitter and Facebook, and leave a review on iTunes.

Podcast Editing & Production Services are provided by Oscar Hamilton

Disclaimers:

The post 50 Outstanding Ways to Dump an Awful Career for a Bright One – 147 appeared first on NonClinical Physicians.