Interview with Dr. Chirag Chaudhari – 432
Today's guest explains how to find the best syndication opportunities when investing in real estate.
Dr. Chaudhari starts by outlining his path from early rental properties to leading large pooled investments in apartments, storage, land, short-term rentals, and energy deals. He shows how busy professionals can use education, structured due diligence, and carefully chosen partners to diversify beyond traditional retirement accounts while keeping their primary focus on clinical work.
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From Rentals to Syndication Opportunities
Before he ever led large syndications, Dr. Chirag Chaudhari started where many physicians do: with a few individual properties on the side. He and his wife used work bonuses to buy model homes from national builders, then leased them back to the builder for several years. This was a great way to start that produced cash flow without the usual headaches of tenant management. Over time, the portfolio grew, but so did the workload. This led Chirag to look for a more scalable, less hands-on approach.
That search led him into passive real-estate investing courses, masterminds, and limited-partner positions in more than 25 syndications. He invested in several asset classes, including multifamily, storage, land, and short-term rentals. As returns came in and experience accumulated, friends, colleagues, and family started asking to invest alongside him. This naturally evolved into group investments and negotiating better terms on behalf of a larger pool of investors.
Finding Strong Syndications
Today, he focuses on finding strong syndications by spending months vetting each opportunity: reviewing sponsors, running background checks, stress-testing assumptions, and matching the deal structure to investor goals.
Depending on what people need (steady cash flow, long-term upside, or income tax write-offs), he curates options that range from apartments and land to short-term rentals, preferred-equity funds, and energy projects such as oil and gas.
Summary
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari’s path from individual rentals to leading group investments highlights how education, due diligence, and diversified syndications can help professionals move beyond traditional retirement plans. Listeners who want to learn more or join his newsletter can visit thesyndicationdoctor.com, where they can also book a call and explore current offerings.
NOTE: Look below for a transcript of today's episode.
Links for Today's Episode:
- Dr. Chirag Chaudhari's The Syndication Doctor Website
- Dr. Chaudhari's LinkedIn Page
- The Syndication Doctor's Current and Past Investment Opportunities
- The Best Real Estate Investment For Today’s Physicians – Part 1
- The Best Real Estate Investment For Today’s Physicians – Part 2
- Revisiting How to Use Real Estate Investing to Go from Burnout to Financial Freedom – 307
- https://nonclinicalcareeracademy.com/
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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 432
Frustration Inspires The Best New Businesses
- Interview with Dr. Chirag Chaudhari
John: Hello listeners and viewers. You may have noticed that I’ve been inviting guests recently who found new ways to diversify their incomes. And today’s guest is a good example of that, and I can’t wait to hear about his recent experiences investing, and actually how he helps other physicians do the same thing. With that, Dr. Chirag Chaudhari, welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Thank you so much. Really appreciate you having me.
John: All right. One thing we usually start with is kind of a little bit of the clinical background. So before we get into the investing, tell us about your medical training. I know you were an ER physician, and I guess we want to know whether you’re still doing some of that or not. It’d be interesting. Tell us about your background.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, absolutely. So I’m a PGY 21, and so been out in practice for some time now and do emergency medicine out in Maryland. Been at the same hospital system since finishing up residency, and I was the chairman of that department for eight years and sort of, you know, heading up hospital leadership.
And came to a point where, you know, I was the president of our medical staff, and the next step was sort of that associate chief medical officer position. And I interviewed and kind of came down to a couple of folks, and I ended up not being the guy for the job, which was a gut punch and not something I had sort of experienced through academic medicine up until that point.
And so that was sort of the pivot for me— figuring out, if not then, then what? And my wife and I had always been interested in real estate. We had a number of properties of our own, and so that really started what I call the beginning of my real estate fellowship and really getting deeper into finding out about real estate and different opportunities and joining masterminds.
But still, full-time, I’m the director of quality and informatics at my hospital. I do now about a shift a week in the ER— just enough to stay dangerous, I like to say— and enjoy that, but really enjoy sort of the newfound knowledge and skill set that real estate has afforded me.
John: All right. And it sounds like you’re using those executive skills in the hospital setting still, with a little bit of clinical. And you— I think you did a lot of coursework through the AAPL, correct?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: I did. Yep.
John: I love that. I’ve been part of— a member since, I think, the mid-nineties at least. So I’ve spent a lot of time with them.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, no, it’s great. They’re a great group.
John: Yeah. All right. So now a lot of focus on investing, and most of it, I think, is in real estate. But kind of give us— yeah, give us a little bit about, you know, what you got into first, what things you’ve tried, what you love the best, and just kind of give us an overview of all that in real estate.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, no, absolutely. So it started, you know, sort of early on becoming an attending and having more income than I was accustomed to and used to. And, you know, the traditional model is to put that away into the market and into a variety of different funds and hoping that that’s sort of the retirement package and will serve you well in your retirement years.
So instead of that, we took— anytime we would get bonuses from work and things of that nature, we would buy property. And so we would buy a number of homes, and that was going to be our retirement plan— just to sort of retire off that cash flow.
And we took the angle that we would buy model homes from, you know, the nationwide builder that was just selling their model homes. They didn’t want to own them, and so they would sell them to investors and then rent them back for a number of years until they sold out that particular community. And it was great, because as a landlord, you’re not really— there’s no tenant. It’s just the owner of that community, and they’re taking care of anything that comes up.
So for many years, you don’t have to worry about, you know, actually being a landlord, and you just get monthly paychecks, and it was terrific. And so we did that for a number of years. And then from there, we started doing some masterminds and doing things a little bit more intelligently with regards to our portfolio.
John: Okay. Yeah. I never heard of that strategy before. I’ve interviewed several people and talked to others outside the podcast, and that sounds like a very good starting point. How did you find those?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: So we actually owned— when we moved in for residency, we moved into a home. We were one of the residents that actually purchased, you know, during residency. And as a result of that, we would occasionally get emails from the home builder, and, you know, they would say, “Are you looking to invest? Are you looking for a property?”
And we were in Maryland at the time, and in our area, real estate was pretty expensive, but just across the border in Pennsylvania, not as much. And so our first home was actually in Pennsylvania. And we— you know, for a very nominal down payment— we were able to have a second home and be able to kind of start our real estate portfolio and investing into real estate.
And then, you know, we would repeat that several times over until we had a few properties being able to cash flow.
John: Nice. So when did you start this, the first investment in real estate?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Probably about 2006, 2007.
John: Okay.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yes. It's been a little while ago.
John: Yeah, got a lot of experience. Then— so then what did you segue into? What did you begin to focus on, and what are you focusing on these days?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: So the more properties we owned, at some point it became a decent amount of work. And early on, when they were just the home builders, that was minimal work, and it was great as a young attending. I could work as much as I wanted to as an attending and not have to worry about, you know, calls from tenants and doing things and maintenance and that sort of stuff.
And so it worked out really well, but it got to a point where we had enough properties and sort of didn’t want to do more of the active. And so I took a passive real estate investing course and learned about getting into syndications and being sort of a partial owner of a property, whether it be a multifamily or different asset class such as storage or land even.
And my wife and I, you know, invested in a number of those— now in over 25 different syndications as just limited partners in a variety of different asset classes to be able to sort of diversify our risk.
Then, sort of by getting into those, one thing sort of leads to another. And the ones that are doing well, we went back and said, “Hey, instead of our single investment, what if we brought you 20, 30 investments and sort of grouped them? What could you do for all of us that would be better? Could we get lower minimums? Could we get higher returns and negotiate a nicer return for all of us collectively?”
And so I’ve been doing that now for a couple of years.
John: Okay. And so you’re recruiting others to participate in the— I guess in what you’re sort of leading. Is that what I’m understanding?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, I think it sort of started off very— just, you know, word of mouth, and, you know, other folks and physicians in our community and at my hospital sort of, you know, getting a little bit of wind of what I was up to and what I was doing and got a little bit real-estate curious, if you will, and, you know, began to ask if they could also invest. And so that’s how it sort of started.
And then, not realizing there was, you know, a strong interest for these types of investments, you know, started doing it more seriously. And so when my wife and I would go in, we would always do our own due diligence and look at the assets very carefully. But now we’re bringing in anywhere from five to, say, twenty-five million dollars into a project. And that’s a very different— that’s my father, that’s my cousins, that’s my colleagues at work that are coming in. So it’s a much more important task, if you will.
And so that due diligence— we do anywhere from four to five months per deal. And we do deep dives into the partners that we work with and the sponsor, and criminal background checks, and, you know, really get into the weeds of the deal and understand it backwards and forwards so that we’re able to, one, you know, as much as possible ensure that it’s going to be a good deal for all of us as we get into it.
But we owe that to everyone else who, you know, maybe doesn’t want to do as deep of a dive, doesn’t have the time, really enjoys what they’re doing clinically— you know, doesn’t want to necessarily take the amount of time it does to really do a good job of looking at a specific opportunity.
John: No, that’s great, because that’s something that I’ve been interested in recently. So we won’t get into that, but it is nice when you have some of those skills and experience and, you know, you’re just there to share a little bit of your assets to invest in something and hopefully will do well.
So is it beyond now just, let’s say, friends and family at this point? Because I see you have a website and I see you on LinkedIn talking about some of these things. Who are you recruiting now for some of these bigger projects?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, I think it has taken on a little bit of its own life in that sense. And we’re sort of at the friends-of-friends-of-friends now who are hearing about things. And so that circle continues to get a little bit larger. And they hear about the returns, they hear about the investment opportunities, and I think they will hop on a webinar we may be hosting or something, or just have a conversation with me.
And I think, you know, as physicians, we tend to be super risk averse. We tend to be very conservative. We don’t trust anyone, but we trust another physician. And there’s a little bit of a respect and a common language and a dialogue where we sort of understand one another.
So, you know, being able to speak the real estate language and understand these deals and opportunities and, you know, speak intelligently with another physician colleague is great. And so I think that helps, but we have attorneys now investing, we have dentists, we have pilots. There are folks from all sorts of different fields now that are coming in and interested in sort of our opportunities.
John: Now, as I was looking at some of the materials that you have out there, like your website— which maybe you can tell us about— but it seems like you’ve got, I think, a newsletter, or you’re doing things to educate. This is part of marketing, of course, but it’s educating, you know, because we go into medicine, and unless we’ve done real estate before, we have no idea. We just know we want something that’s relatively safe, will grow at a reasonable rate, give a good return.
So what are some of the resources you have for getting people to understand and feel comfortable?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, I think you’re spot on. I think, you know, a lot of folks do sort of crave that knowledge, and we try to host a webinar at least every other month or so on some educational topic that would be of interest to folks looking to get into, you know, different opportunities, whether it could be real estate or a different asset class. But that knowledge is so important.
I do a monthly newsletter where, you know, I send out some education, send out any offerings that, you know, may be either coming down the pike or that we have open at the time, and send out recordings of webinars so people can sort of listen to old webinars, learn from them, see— you know, and learn the different terms that are used in syndications and these opportunities.
And always happy to meet with anyone and have that conversation.
John: So what’s the easiest way to get into your circle of influence and education? Is that the website?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah. Yeah. My website is thesyndicationdoctor.com, and so that has our current offerings. It has a calendar on there so you can book an appointment with me. You can jump on the newsletter there as well. So that would be the easiest way.
John: Okay. I’ll put that in the show notes for sure with whatever other information we want to have them get about you. Tell us more about the syndications in terms of— what exactly is a syndication? Keep it brief, but you know what that means. And I suppose you can sell pretty much anything, you know, in that method. So what kind of syndications have you been participating in or creating now for the most part?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, so I think, you know, a lot of this is driven by friends and colleagues and what they’re looking for. So we’ve done a number of different asset classes, but put simply, a syndication is a number of folks who are pooling their capital together to buy a large asset. And so it could be a very large apartment building that has, you know, 400 units, and it could be a land opportunity where you hold that land for a period of time and then rezone it and resell that to another buyer.
We have done a debt deal, like a preferred equity deal, where there’s just a very standard interest rate, like a 12% annual payout. And so that’s much safer. You’re much higher in what’s called the capital stack, and so very low-risk type investment. And we’ve done ground-up construction— a couple of projects in San Diego where we’re putting up, you know, brand-new apartments. And so that’s also been super interesting.
And then this year we had folks ask for tax relief. So many of our syndications will offer passive pass-through losses. And so any kind of passive income that people have made, it will count against that. But we have a lot of folks who don’t have real estate portfolios, who don’t own real estate, and who work, you know, tremendously hard and pay a large burden of taxes.
And so they wanted to be able to offset their active income— so 1099 income, W2 income. And there’s a few ways to do that, but one of the easiest ways is energy syndications. So oil and gas is a good way to do that, where you’re investing into what are called IDCs, or intangible drilling costs. Those carry with them tax offsets off your active income. And so 80 to 90% of your investment comes off your taxes in the calendar year that you invest.
So, put simply, somebody who invests 100K would get 80 to 90K off of their active income this year. And in our tax bracket, that’s a check equal to a little bit over 30K or so. So it’s automatic return on your investment.
John: Maybe we’ll talk about that a little bit more in a minute. But one of the things that I found as I’m starting to look at these kinds of things is that the features of each arrangement or project are different, and maybe you can explain a little bit about that. You know, sometimes we’re looking for, you know, just an interest rate or a return over time. Sometimes that goes on a long time. Sometimes it’s short. Sometimes it’s more or less getting a quick turnaround.
But what do people look for, in your experience, in these syndications, and why are certain things of value?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, no, I think that’s a really good question. I think it’s very unique to the individual investor. Some of them want monthly cash flow, and they just want predictable, reliable monthly cash flow. And there are certain investments that will offer that.
There are others where they want just the biggest sort of return that they can get for their investment. Even if it means no cash flow for three or four years, they’re willing to pause on that to get a much higher return in the end. And so there are certain investments— for example, land has a good way of doing that because there’s no cash flow, there’s no depreciation.
The land investments that we do, we actually pay fully in cash. So we had a $50 million purchase that we did earlier this year. It’s great— very low risk, almost zero, because there’s no leverage, there’s no bank to take it away from you. We own it outright; we’re on the deed. So the biggest risk is time— how long will it take for that land to then be resold?
But if you’re willing to wait, there’s three- to five-X multiples. So if you put in a hundred, you’ll get back three to five hundred K, usually in three or four years. So that’s a significant amount of income, very low risk. And so it really depends on the individual investor and what they’re looking for.
John: Well, I’ll get into my situation just because it’s another example you can comment on. So, you know, most of the people, sounds like, that you’re working with— not all of them, I’m sure. Like you said, your father might not be in your situation. He may be more like my situation, which is near retirement or at retirement.
And so as I started to look at syndications, I’m thinking, okay, something that maybe will have at least five to ten years of some income that’ll just kind of cover things. And it’s almost like an annuity. Is that a correct assessment?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, I think so. I think you want to be a little bit careful in just the type of asset that you’re investing in. Some are going to be safer than others and sort of less risky. But absolutely, there are going to be those that have monthly cash flow that is predictable, that is safe.
You know, sometimes unfortunately, for that safety and for that predictability, there’s a slightly less equity multiple or, you know, overall earning. But a lot of folks are okay with that because they just want that predictability and that reliable passive income. And so, yeah, absolutely. There are methods to do that.
John: Well, let’s get back to the oil and gas then. This sounds scary to me. I mean, you mentioned one of the benefits, but yeah, just tell us what made this interesting to you and to where you really would even dedicate this much effort and possibly a syndication to do one of these deals.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah. I think you’re right. I think oil and gas is to be feared. I think there’s a lot of folks who get into oil and gas that don’t do well because there’s a lot of folks out there that maybe are not doing things as well as they could be or cutting corners.
So the opportunity that we have is where we are only aligning with the large sort of companies that are out there— the Exxon, the ConocoPhillips— and we’re assuming less than a 10% stake of any well that they have. And so because of that, we’re able to do 50 to 100 different wells. And so again, we’re diversifying risk. We’re in multiple different states and able to offset those active taxes.
What’s nice is the investment will yield probably a 30% tax sort of write-off from the investment. Thirty percent of that, after the 80 to 90%, is going to come off the active income in our tax bracket around 30%. And then in cash flow, we’re expecting— conservatively— 20%. It could be as high as 40, but we’re going to say conservatively 20%.
So within the first year, you have a 50% return of your capital. So if you invest a hundred K, you should anticipate a 50K return in that first year, which is the highest return we’ve ever been able to offer. That’s a significant return on investment early, where you can then compound that and put that into either another vehicle, you could use that as cash flow— whatever it is that the investor is looking for.
But to have that return that quickly is very enticing, and oil and gas offers us that opportunity.
John: You mentioned some risks involved, and I can imagine some, but I was thinking— and not to get political— but there was a time when it seemed like energy was kind of being shut down as we’re looking at windmills and things, and not oil, I guess is what I’m saying.
And now it seems like it’s a phase where, okay, the spigots are open, so to speak, to go ahead and invest and grow. I mean, what happens in three years is probably the big unknown. Is that accurate in your assessment? Is that one of the things anyway?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, I think so. And I think we’re all about alternative energy sources, and that’s critically important. But the truth is oil and gas isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. It is a human need, if you will. It’s in everything. It’s in furniture. It’s in medical equipment. It’s in sailing bags. It’s in things we touch every day and use every day.
You know, we had an economist on our team that looked at the last 70 years of oil and gas production, the impact of wars, the impact of presidencies, and, you know, all of these kinds of things, and put all of that into our analysis model to try to figure out what does this look like 10 years from now? And the deal goes five to seven years, but, you know, what is the volatility for oil and gas? Because we are tied to production. We are tied to oil and gas prices.
And so we’ve chosen $40 a barrel as a breakeven point, as a very conservative and low breakeven point. And so because of our underwriting and how conservative it is, we anticipate doing really well. You never know. And again, that’s why I said you’re right to be fearful, because it is— it’s not an apartment building where you have, you know, guaranteed rents and things. And not that that’s guaranteed even in an apartment building, but it is a very different asset class, you know?
So we always recommend never putting all of your eggs in one basket. But it’s a pretty good basket if you’re looking for tax benefits.
John: Well, like I said, my experience is limited. I am involved in one syndication and looking at others, but they all seem to have a deadline. Like, okay, this is the deal, it’s going to be closed on this date. Now what you’ve done— typically in the oil and gas, are these ongoing? Can people get in over time, or is it boom, you’ve got to be in by December 31st or January 10th or whatever?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, they typically will have deadlines. I would say oil and gas is a little bit less forgiving in terms of deadlines because you need to be able to buy all of your assets and wells in the calendar year that you get your tax benefits in. And so we do have to wrap up that in calendar year ’25 so all the investors can get the tax benefits in year ’25. And so that will wrap up by late November, early December.
But other syndications are tied to the closing, and the close— you know, sometimes closings can be delayed for large apartments and land and those kinds of things. And so there’s some flexibility, but typically they do need to go to escrow, they need to go to close, and so usually there’s some finite date that will be out there.
John: So do you have projects right now that you're still recruiting investors for?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: We have two. We have one that is going to be shut down actually within the next week or so, but that’s an elite short-term rental fund with really high-end Airbnbs that they’re doing a fund. And so it’s multi-million-dollar homes that are out in Sedona and Indio, California. And they put in lazy rivers in the backyard and pickleball courts and you name it.
John: Oh yeah.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: And they’re really sort of recession-proof because the folks that are staying there are able to stay there kind of regardless of what the economy is doing. And so that’s a really fun asset class that’s finishing up. And then oil and gas. But we’re looking at doing at least six to eight a year, typically— so usually two a quarter. And we want to do different asset classes because they appeal to different folks. So next year we’re looking at a mobile home park, storage, we’ll likely do another land unit and land deal, and likely a multifamily offering as well.
John: All right. So that sounds good. That’s going to be a lot of opportunities, and yeah, and yet you’re still doing some practicing and working at the hospital. So that’s cool.
Well, let’s see. What advice do you have for, I don’t know, physicians in various stages of their life for investing? It sounds like you’re a big proponent of, you know, real estate, but you know, colleagues like, you know, that were doing what you were doing or were feeling certain desires to build some more diversification in their income. What advice do you have for people to kind of figure it out?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, I think knowledge, right, is power, to be a little cliche, and really to learn. And whether it's courses or conversations with folks that are doing something a little bit different.
You know, we talk about sort of 401Ks and 457 and oh 403s being money jail, right? And you get, you know, typically six to eight different offerings that you're able to park funds into. But out in the private market, there's so many other opportunities, many of which do significantly better than the market is able to do in a much shorter timeframe. It really enhances the velocity of sort of wealth creation.
And so you don't want to do that without an education, without a knowledger or a mentor. But finding somebody that's done this before you and learning from them is a great way. And again, you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket, right? And you do want to reach out to different offerings and opportunities.
John: All right. Well, this has been very interesting. I think we’re going to have to follow how things go over the next year or so. If this podcast is still going, we’ll have you come back. But tell us again where we’re going to go if we want to kind of keep track of that newsletter.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, absolutely. So the website again is thesyndicationdoctor.com. Join on the newsletter. Happy to set up a meeting to chat and figure out, you know, where your interests may be or steer you in the right direction in terms of courses. I’ve taken many, so happy to recommend those as well.
John: Okay. Good. Good. All right. Well, I think we’re about out of time, so I really appreciate you coming on today and sharing this knowledge and opportunity with us. I really appreciate it. Sure. Thanks for being here.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks again for giving me the time. Really appreciate it.
John: All right. We'll hopefully see you again down the road. With that, I'll say goodbye.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Bye bye.
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Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 432
Frustration Inspires The Best New Businesses
- Interview with Dr. Chirag Chaudhari
John: Hello listeners and viewers. You may have noticed that I’ve been inviting guests recently who found new ways to diversify their incomes. And today’s guest is a good example of that, and I can’t wait to hear about his recent experiences investing, and actually how he helps other physicians do the same thing. With that, Dr. Chirag Chaudhari, welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Thank you so much. Really appreciate you having me.
John: All right. One thing we usually start with is kind of a little bit of the clinical background. So before we get into the investing, tell us about your medical training. I know you were an ER physician, and I guess we want to know whether you’re still doing some of that or not. It’d be interesting. Tell us about your background.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, absolutely. So I’m a PGY 21, and so been out in practice for some time now and do emergency medicine out in Maryland. Been at the same hospital system since finishing up residency, and I was the chairman of that department for eight years and sort of, you know, heading up hospital leadership.
And came to a point where, you know, I was the president of our medical staff, and the next step was sort of that associate chief medical officer position. And I interviewed and kind of came down to a couple of folks, and I ended up not being the guy for the job, which was a gut punch and not something I had sort of experienced through academic medicine up until that point.
And so that was sort of the pivot for me— figuring out, if not then, then what? And my wife and I had always been interested in real estate. We had a number of properties of our own, and so that really started what I call the beginning of my real estate fellowship and really getting deeper into finding out about real estate and different opportunities and joining masterminds.
But still, full-time, I’m the director of quality and informatics at my hospital. I do now about a shift a week in the ER— just enough to stay dangerous, I like to say— and enjoy that, but really enjoy sort of the newfound knowledge and skill set that real estate has afforded me.
John: All right. And it sounds like you’re using those executive skills in the hospital setting still, with a little bit of clinical. And you— I think you did a lot of coursework through the AAPL, correct?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: I did. Yep.
John: I love that. I’ve been part of— a member since, I think, the mid-nineties at least. So I’ve spent a lot of time with them.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, no, it’s great. They’re a great group.
John: Yeah. All right. So now a lot of focus on investing, and most of it, I think, is in real estate. But kind of give us— yeah, give us a little bit about, you know, what you got into first, what things you’ve tried, what you love the best, and just kind of give us an overview of all that in real estate.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, no, absolutely. So it started, you know, sort of early on becoming an attending and having more income than I was accustomed to and used to. And, you know, the traditional model is to put that away into the market and into a variety of different funds and hoping that that’s sort of the retirement package and will serve you well in your retirement years.
So instead of that, we took— anytime we would get bonuses from work and things of that nature, we would buy property. And so we would buy a number of homes, and that was going to be our retirement plan— just to sort of retire off that cash flow.
And we took the angle that we would buy model homes from, you know, the nationwide builder that was just selling their model homes. They didn’t want to own them, and so they would sell them to investors and then rent them back for a number of years until they sold out that particular community. And it was great, because as a landlord, you’re not really— there’s no tenant. It’s just the owner of that community, and they’re taking care of anything that comes up.
So for many years, you don’t have to worry about, you know, actually being a landlord, and you just get monthly paychecks, and it was terrific. And so we did that for a number of years. And then from there, we started doing some masterminds and doing things a little bit more intelligently with regards to our portfolio.
John: Okay. Yeah. I never heard of that strategy before. I’ve interviewed several people and talked to others outside the podcast, and that sounds like a very good starting point. How did you find those?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: So we actually owned— when we moved in for residency, we moved into a home. We were one of the residents that actually purchased, you know, during residency. And as a result of that, we would occasionally get emails from the home builder, and, you know, they would say, “Are you looking to invest? Are you looking for a property?”
And we were in Maryland at the time, and in our area, real estate was pretty expensive, but just across the border in Pennsylvania, not as much. And so our first home was actually in Pennsylvania. And we— you know, for a very nominal down payment— we were able to have a second home and be able to kind of start our real estate portfolio and investing into real estate.
And then, you know, we would repeat that several times over until we had a few properties being able to cash flow.
John: Nice. So when did you start this, the first investment in real estate?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Probably about 2006, 2007.
John: Okay.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yes. It's been a little while ago.
John: Yeah, got a lot of experience. Then— so then what did you segue into? What did you begin to focus on, and what are you focusing on these days?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: So the more properties we owned, at some point it became a decent amount of work. And early on, when they were just the home builders, that was minimal work, and it was great as a young attending. I could work as much as I wanted to as an attending and not have to worry about, you know, calls from tenants and doing things and maintenance and that sort of stuff.
And so it worked out really well, but it got to a point where we had enough properties and sort of didn’t want to do more of the active. And so I took a passive real estate investing course and learned about getting into syndications and being sort of a partial owner of a property, whether it be a multifamily or different asset class such as storage or land even.
And my wife and I, you know, invested in a number of those— now in over 25 different syndications as just limited partners in a variety of different asset classes to be able to sort of diversify our risk.
Then, sort of by getting into those, one thing sort of leads to another. And the ones that are doing well, we went back and said, “Hey, instead of our single investment, what if we brought you 20, 30 investments and sort of grouped them? What could you do for all of us that would be better? Could we get lower minimums? Could we get higher returns and negotiate a nicer return for all of us collectively?”
And so I’ve been doing that now for a couple of years.
John: Okay. And so you’re recruiting others to participate in the— I guess in what you’re sort of leading. Is that what I’m understanding?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, I think it sort of started off very— just, you know, word of mouth, and, you know, other folks and physicians in our community and at my hospital sort of, you know, getting a little bit of wind of what I was up to and what I was doing and got a little bit real-estate curious, if you will, and, you know, began to ask if they could also invest. And so that’s how it sort of started.
And then, not realizing there was, you know, a strong interest for these types of investments, you know, started doing it more seriously. And so when my wife and I would go in, we would always do our own due diligence and look at the assets very carefully. But now we’re bringing in anywhere from five to, say, twenty-five million dollars into a project. And that’s a very different— that’s my father, that’s my cousins, that’s my colleagues at work that are coming in. So it’s a much more important task, if you will.
And so that due diligence— we do anywhere from four to five months per deal. And we do deep dives into the partners that we work with and the sponsor, and criminal background checks, and, you know, really get into the weeds of the deal and understand it backwards and forwards so that we’re able to, one, you know, as much as possible ensure that it’s going to be a good deal for all of us as we get into it.
But we owe that to everyone else who, you know, maybe doesn’t want to do as deep of a dive, doesn’t have the time, really enjoys what they’re doing clinically— you know, doesn’t want to necessarily take the amount of time it does to really do a good job of looking at a specific opportunity.
John: No, that’s great, because that’s something that I’ve been interested in recently. So we won’t get into that, but it is nice when you have some of those skills and experience and, you know, you’re just there to share a little bit of your assets to invest in something and hopefully will do well.
So is it beyond now just, let’s say, friends and family at this point? Because I see you have a website and I see you on LinkedIn talking about some of these things. Who are you recruiting now for some of these bigger projects?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, I think it has taken on a little bit of its own life in that sense. And we’re sort of at the friends-of-friends-of-friends now who are hearing about things. And so that circle continues to get a little bit larger. And they hear about the returns, they hear about the investment opportunities, and I think they will hop on a webinar we may be hosting or something, or just have a conversation with me.
And I think, you know, as physicians, we tend to be super risk averse. We tend to be very conservative. We don’t trust anyone, but we trust another physician. And there’s a little bit of a respect and a common language and a dialogue where we sort of understand one another.
So, you know, being able to speak the real estate language and understand these deals and opportunities and, you know, speak intelligently with another physician colleague is great. And so I think that helps, but we have attorneys now investing, we have dentists, we have pilots. There are folks from all sorts of different fields now that are coming in and interested in sort of our opportunities.
John: Now, as I was looking at some of the materials that you have out there, like your website— which maybe you can tell us about— but it seems like you’ve got, I think, a newsletter, or you’re doing things to educate. This is part of marketing, of course, but it’s educating, you know, because we go into medicine, and unless we’ve done real estate before, we have no idea. We just know we want something that’s relatively safe, will grow at a reasonable rate, give a good return.
So what are some of the resources you have for getting people to understand and feel comfortable?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, I think you’re spot on. I think, you know, a lot of folks do sort of crave that knowledge, and we try to host a webinar at least every other month or so on some educational topic that would be of interest to folks looking to get into, you know, different opportunities, whether it could be real estate or a different asset class. But that knowledge is so important.
I do a monthly newsletter where, you know, I send out some education, send out any offerings that, you know, may be either coming down the pike or that we have open at the time, and send out recordings of webinars so people can sort of listen to old webinars, learn from them, see— you know, and learn the different terms that are used in syndications and these opportunities.
And always happy to meet with anyone and have that conversation.
John: So what’s the easiest way to get into your circle of influence and education? Is that the website?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah. Yeah. My website is thesyndicationdoctor.com, and so that has our current offerings. It has a calendar on there so you can book an appointment with me. You can jump on the newsletter there as well. So that would be the easiest way.
John: Okay. I’ll put that in the show notes for sure with whatever other information we want to have them get about you. Tell us more about the syndications in terms of— what exactly is a syndication? Keep it brief, but you know what that means. And I suppose you can sell pretty much anything, you know, in that method. So what kind of syndications have you been participating in or creating now for the most part?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, so I think, you know, a lot of this is driven by friends and colleagues and what they’re looking for. So we’ve done a number of different asset classes, but put simply, a syndication is a number of folks who are pooling their capital together to buy a large asset. And so it could be a very large apartment building that has, you know, 400 units, and it could be a land opportunity where you hold that land for a period of time and then rezone it and resell that to another buyer.
We have done a debt deal, like a preferred equity deal, where there’s just a very standard interest rate, like a 12% annual payout. And so that’s much safer. You’re much higher in what’s called the capital stack, and so very low-risk type investment. And we’ve done ground-up construction— a couple of projects in San Diego where we’re putting up, you know, brand-new apartments. And so that’s also been super interesting.
And then this year we had folks ask for tax relief. So many of our syndications will offer passive pass-through losses. And so any kind of passive income that people have made, it will count against that. But we have a lot of folks who don’t have real estate portfolios, who don’t own real estate, and who work, you know, tremendously hard and pay a large burden of taxes.
And so they wanted to be able to offset their active income— so 1099 income, W2 income. And there’s a few ways to do that, but one of the easiest ways is energy syndications. So oil and gas is a good way to do that, where you’re investing into what are called IDCs, or intangible drilling costs. Those carry with them tax offsets off your active income. And so 80 to 90% of your investment comes off your taxes in the calendar year that you invest.
So, put simply, somebody who invests 100K would get 80 to 90K off of their active income this year. And in our tax bracket, that’s a check equal to a little bit over 30K or so. So it’s automatic return on your investment.
John: Maybe we’ll talk about that a little bit more in a minute. But one of the things that I found as I’m starting to look at these kinds of things is that the features of each arrangement or project are different, and maybe you can explain a little bit about that. You know, sometimes we’re looking for, you know, just an interest rate or a return over time. Sometimes that goes on a long time. Sometimes it’s short. Sometimes it’s more or less getting a quick turnaround.
But what do people look for, in your experience, in these syndications, and why are certain things of value?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, no, I think that’s a really good question. I think it’s very unique to the individual investor. Some of them want monthly cash flow, and they just want predictable, reliable monthly cash flow. And there are certain investments that will offer that.
There are others where they want just the biggest sort of return that they can get for their investment. Even if it means no cash flow for three or four years, they’re willing to pause on that to get a much higher return in the end. And so there are certain investments— for example, land has a good way of doing that because there’s no cash flow, there’s no depreciation.
The land investments that we do, we actually pay fully in cash. So we had a $50 million purchase that we did earlier this year. It’s great— very low risk, almost zero, because there’s no leverage, there’s no bank to take it away from you. We own it outright; we’re on the deed. So the biggest risk is time— how long will it take for that land to then be resold?
But if you’re willing to wait, there’s three- to five-X multiples. So if you put in a hundred, you’ll get back three to five hundred K, usually in three or four years. So that’s a significant amount of income, very low risk. And so it really depends on the individual investor and what they’re looking for.
John: Well, I’ll get into my situation just because it’s another example you can comment on. So, you know, most of the people, sounds like, that you’re working with— not all of them, I’m sure. Like you said, your father might not be in your situation. He may be more like my situation, which is near retirement or at retirement.
And so as I started to look at syndications, I’m thinking, okay, something that maybe will have at least five to ten years of some income that’ll just kind of cover things. And it’s almost like an annuity. Is that a correct assessment?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, I think so. I think you want to be a little bit careful in just the type of asset that you’re investing in. Some are going to be safer than others and sort of less risky. But absolutely, there are going to be those that have monthly cash flow that is predictable, that is safe.
You know, sometimes unfortunately, for that safety and for that predictability, there’s a slightly less equity multiple or, you know, overall earning. But a lot of folks are okay with that because they just want that predictability and that reliable passive income. And so, yeah, absolutely. There are methods to do that.
John: Well, let’s get back to the oil and gas then. This sounds scary to me. I mean, you mentioned one of the benefits, but yeah, just tell us what made this interesting to you and to where you really would even dedicate this much effort and possibly a syndication to do one of these deals.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah. I think you’re right. I think oil and gas is to be feared. I think there’s a lot of folks who get into oil and gas that don’t do well because there’s a lot of folks out there that maybe are not doing things as well as they could be or cutting corners.
So the opportunity that we have is where we are only aligning with the large sort of companies that are out there— the Exxon, the ConocoPhillips— and we’re assuming less than a 10% stake of any well that they have. And so because of that, we’re able to do 50 to 100 different wells. And so again, we’re diversifying risk. We’re in multiple different states and able to offset those active taxes.
What’s nice is the investment will yield probably a 30% tax sort of write-off from the investment. Thirty percent of that, after the 80 to 90%, is going to come off the active income in our tax bracket around 30%. And then in cash flow, we’re expecting— conservatively— 20%. It could be as high as 40, but we’re going to say conservatively 20%.
So within the first year, you have a 50% return of your capital. So if you invest a hundred K, you should anticipate a 50K return in that first year, which is the highest return we’ve ever been able to offer. That’s a significant return on investment early, where you can then compound that and put that into either another vehicle, you could use that as cash flow— whatever it is that the investor is looking for.
But to have that return that quickly is very enticing, and oil and gas offers us that opportunity.
John: You mentioned some risks involved, and I can imagine some, but I was thinking— and not to get political— but there was a time when it seemed like energy was kind of being shut down as we’re looking at windmills and things, and not oil, I guess is what I’m saying.
And now it seems like it’s a phase where, okay, the spigots are open, so to speak, to go ahead and invest and grow. I mean, what happens in three years is probably the big unknown. Is that accurate in your assessment? Is that one of the things anyway?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, I think so. And I think we’re all about alternative energy sources, and that’s critically important. But the truth is oil and gas isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. It is a human need, if you will. It’s in everything. It’s in furniture. It’s in medical equipment. It’s in sailing bags. It’s in things we touch every day and use every day.
You know, we had an economist on our team that looked at the last 70 years of oil and gas production, the impact of wars, the impact of presidencies, and, you know, all of these kinds of things, and put all of that into our analysis model to try to figure out what does this look like 10 years from now? And the deal goes five to seven years, but, you know, what is the volatility for oil and gas? Because we are tied to production. We are tied to oil and gas prices.
And so we’ve chosen $40 a barrel as a breakeven point, as a very conservative and low breakeven point. And so because of our underwriting and how conservative it is, we anticipate doing really well. You never know. And again, that’s why I said you’re right to be fearful, because it is— it’s not an apartment building where you have, you know, guaranteed rents and things. And not that that’s guaranteed even in an apartment building, but it is a very different asset class, you know?
So we always recommend never putting all of your eggs in one basket. But it’s a pretty good basket if you’re looking for tax benefits.
John: Well, like I said, my experience is limited. I am involved in one syndication and looking at others, but they all seem to have a deadline. Like, okay, this is the deal, it’s going to be closed on this date. Now what you’ve done— typically in the oil and gas, are these ongoing? Can people get in over time, or is it boom, you’ve got to be in by December 31st or January 10th or whatever?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, they typically will have deadlines. I would say oil and gas is a little bit less forgiving in terms of deadlines because you need to be able to buy all of your assets and wells in the calendar year that you get your tax benefits in. And so we do have to wrap up that in calendar year ’25 so all the investors can get the tax benefits in year ’25. And so that will wrap up by late November, early December.
But other syndications are tied to the closing, and the close— you know, sometimes closings can be delayed for large apartments and land and those kinds of things. And so there’s some flexibility, but typically they do need to go to escrow, they need to go to close, and so usually there’s some finite date that will be out there.
John: So do you have projects right now that you're still recruiting investors for?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: We have two. We have one that is going to be shut down actually within the next week or so, but that’s an elite short-term rental fund with really high-end Airbnbs that they’re doing a fund. And so it’s multi-million-dollar homes that are out in Sedona and Indio, California. And they put in lazy rivers in the backyard and pickleball courts and you name it.
John: Oh yeah.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: And they’re really sort of recession-proof because the folks that are staying there are able to stay there kind of regardless of what the economy is doing. And so that’s a really fun asset class that’s finishing up. And then oil and gas. But we’re looking at doing at least six to eight a year, typically— so usually two a quarter. And we want to do different asset classes because they appeal to different folks. So next year we’re looking at a mobile home park, storage, we’ll likely do another land unit and land deal, and likely a multifamily offering as well.
John: All right. So that sounds good. That’s going to be a lot of opportunities, and yeah, and yet you’re still doing some practicing and working at the hospital. So that’s cool.
Well, let’s see. What advice do you have for, I don’t know, physicians in various stages of their life for investing? It sounds like you’re a big proponent of, you know, real estate, but you know, colleagues like, you know, that were doing what you were doing or were feeling certain desires to build some more diversification in their income. What advice do you have for people to kind of figure it out?
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, I think knowledge, right, is power, to be a little cliche, and really to learn. And whether it's courses or conversations with folks that are doing something a little bit different.
You know, we talk about sort of 401Ks and 457 and oh 403s being money jail, right? And you get, you know, typically six to eight different offerings that you're able to park funds into. But out in the private market, there's so many other opportunities, many of which do significantly better than the market is able to do in a much shorter timeframe. It really enhances the velocity of sort of wealth creation.
And so you don't want to do that without an education, without a knowledger or a mentor. But finding somebody that's done this before you and learning from them is a great way. And again, you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket, right? And you do want to reach out to different offerings and opportunities.
John: All right. Well, this has been very interesting. I think we’re going to have to follow how things go over the next year or so. If this podcast is still going, we’ll have you come back. But tell us again where we’re going to go if we want to kind of keep track of that newsletter.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, absolutely. So the website again is thesyndicationdoctor.com. Join on the newsletter. Happy to set up a meeting to chat and figure out, you know, where your interests may be or steer you in the right direction in terms of courses. I’ve taken many, so happy to recommend those as well.
John: Okay. Good. Good. All right. Well, I think we’re about out of time, so I really appreciate you coming on today and sharing this knowledge and opportunity with us. I really appreciate it. Sure. Thanks for being here.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks again for giving me the time. Really appreciate it.
John: All right. We'll hopefully see you again down the road. With that, I'll say goodbye.
Dr. Chirag Chaudhari: Bye bye.
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