This Is the Best Way to Reclaim Your Energy and Confidence

Transcription PNC Podcast Episode 423

This Is the Best Way to Reclaim Your Energy and Confidence

- Interview with Dr. Suzanne Rutherford

John: Today's guest has taken her commitment to nutrition and fitness beyond the usual physician's approach. She is here to discuss what she created, how you might benefit from it, and how you might pursue a similar path if you wish. So Dr. Suzanne Rutherford, welcome to the PNC podcast.

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: Thank you so much for having me. I look forward to our conversation.

John: Let's see, you're probably only my second or third guest that is that lives in Canada. No, this is going to be really good. I think the audience is going to enjoy it. And I think you, I don't know, you coach more women than men, I think, from what I know.

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: Yeah, actually, my coaching is just for women physicians. Yes. Yeah.

John: My audience is about 80% women, I think, the last time I checked. So for whatever reason, I think it's because of the stresses of working clinically and looking for options. And so it affects, it seems to affect women more. But anyway, why don't you tell us about yourself? Before we get into the coaching and fitness, just like clinically, what have you done over the last so many years of your career? And then we'll get into the nonclinical part.

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: Yeah, of course. So I graduated medical school in 2003. So I'm fairly seasoned. I was a little less traditional in my approach in that I graduated medical school 36 weeks pregnant. So I was and I actually graduated in Australia. So in Australia, they have a rotating internship still after you graduate before you pursue your residency of choice.

I basically graduated, had my baby and started my rotating internship when my youngest was three months old. So that was interesting and challenging in and of itself. In Australia, they were very, very welcoming to new approaches and sort of doing things a little bit outside the box. Myself and another colleague, Dr. Karina Sims, she and I created the very first job share internship ever to have been happened in Australia. So that allowed us to be mothers and doctors at the same time and pursue our training. So I did stay in Australia for a few years of training.

And then when I was pregnant with my second, decided to move back to Canada because being close to family really was priority. So I came back and started my residency and family practice. Again, pregnant, I like to start these pregnant for some reason. So did my family medicine training and all of my exams and things like that with two little ones at home. I after I had my second and I finished my family medicine residency, I joined a community, a small rural community outside of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

Just like many rural doctors, I wore many hats. I had my family practice. I worked as an emergency doctor in the community hospital. I worked as inpatient medicine as a hospitalist. I also did local palliative care as well. So did that for over a decade, wore all the hats, loved them. But I did realize that one thing about medicine, in order for me, anyway, I'll just speak from my own personal experience, to continue to find joy in it, and to continue to find contentment in it, it needed to change as my seasons of life changed.

And mainly when I speak about my seasons of life, it's what my family needed, particularly my children. So that has looked different over the years. So and so I, to be quite frank, I've made my job, my clinical job look different through the years.

I am now recently like fresh off the two weeks all the way two weeks, and I'm now an empty nester. My youngest is headed off to university. My daughter is in her last year of university. So it's just my husband I. And so more recently, I have changed the way work looks, because I needed my life to look different when my house was sitting empty without kids. So I gave up my clinic work that really sort of tied me down to particular hours.

And I now just do strict inpatient medicine, hospice medicine, between a hospital in Ottawa, Ontario, and a hospital, believe it or not, in Victoria, BC, which for those of you who might not be aware, is on the opposite side of the country. And I'm starting to do more locum work in the hospice. I'm just moving around, my husband works remotely. And we are not tied down to children anymore. Not that I was ever tied down. I loved my job as a mom, but we have a newfound freedom. And I'm trying to take advantage of that. So taking my hospice job on the road more.

John: Basically, both of you can work remotely and pretty much decide where you're going to be as long as you've got a decent internet connection.

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: Yes, my hospice work is in person, but I am just again using just trying to explore the country a little bit more. There's hospice medicine here in Canada anyway, is in high demand, particularly if you're willing to go more rural. So I'm just, yeah, picking up different rotations and just taking the job on the road a little bit. And right now it's serving me. Five years from now, you might be seeing something different, but right now that's what's serving me.

John: All right. Well, before we get into the next phase of what you're doing, just a question talking about the locums or the temporary work, is it easy in Canada? You know, in the US, it's kind of a hassle because you have to get licensed in every state you might want to work in. So how is it there? Is it a little easier than going through all that paperwork?

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: No, it's still a pain. If you just want to do straight locum, particularly in the really rural remote, like if you're willing to go up north, they make it quite seamless and they do all the work for you. And you can get more temporary licensing and privileges just for locum work.

Because like, for instance, when I applied to British Columbia and I do regular work there, I had to get full separate licensing. It was equally a pain in the butt. There's talk from our government at the federal level about making a standardized licensing protocol across the country.

But as we know, talk is one thing and the actual making it happen in the real world is another. So it is definitely a deterrent. And when physicians talk to me about, I just love you moving around, it sounds so exciting. I definitely it's not all rainbows and butterflies. There was a lot of work to that. For me, it's worth it. You know, it's a bit of short-term pain for long-term gain, but it's not for everyone, but it definitely is working out well for me.

John: Okay. We might have to have you come back and talk just about that kind of work. But my last question on that is, do you know offhand how easy it would be for a US physician to look for that kind of work in Canada, or would it be a lot of major hoops to jump through?

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: It's much less hoops than, and it's very province specific. So here in Canada, which I think is similar to the States, but I'm sorry, I'm probably someone ignorant to your healthcare systems and the workings of, but it's every sort of every province runs its own separate healthcare system. It's almost like multiple countries within one.

How things are done in Ontario is very different than how things are done in British Columbia. And that includes the licensing. But I do know as a whole, particularly with everything going on in the current climate, we are definitely making it easier for US physicians to come. And I know I can speak from personal experience. I work in Victoria, British Columbia, which if you've never visited, it is like a spectacularly beautiful part of the country. And no doubt it is a large, it has a large drawing card for many US physicians, partly because their winters are much easier than ours here in Ontario.

We've actually just even in the last year signed on many more US physician internists who have now become my colleagues. We're working alongside and I'm absolutely loving having them and their expertise come and join us. So I know British Columbia in particular has removed a lot of the hoops and barriers and made it easier for nursing too, I think.

John: Excellent. Well, that's, that's, we've already helped our audience with that. Okay, but now let's move up to the present. And there's another thing that you're doing that has nothing to do with, with that topic. So why don't you explain that and how you got into it?

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: Yes. I am also co-founder of the Fit Physician. So it is a program that helps women physicians prioritize their own health, particularly through resistance training, exercise and evidence-based nutrition. How it came to be, it's kind of an interesting story. So I have always been interested in the nutrition and fitness space ever since I was actually in high school. In my undergrad, before going to medical school, I actually minored in nutritional sciences.

It's always been an interest of mine. It was put on a bit on the back burner through medical school, partly because as you, your listeners heard from my story, I was busy trying to graduate medical school, finish residency and have babies all at once. I just had to make life as hard as possible.

You can imagine my own sort of nutrition and fitness and self-care really was not a priority. I was just simply trying to survive that period of my life. I was far from thriving through it.

When I came out the other end and my son was one year old and I had, was starting my practice and I'd finished my exams and I was a solo independent practitioner. I really realized quickly how much my own health and wellness had taken a backseat. And I really felt terrible. Just energy levels were poor. I didn't feel good in my own skin. It affected how I was honestly, it affected how I practiced medicine because I just didn't have the same energy.

I just felt, I just didn't feel like myself. I knew the problem because I had always been prior to medical school and residency training, I'd been pretty focused in on my nutrition and exercise. I knew what the missing part was.

That wasn't the problem was not identifying the problem. It was just finding the solution. So I really started to dedicate committed to myself that I was going to start finding time for exercise and better nutrition.

I partnered up with a personal trainer. So I hired a personal trainer who I've hired many personal trainers throughout my life. This one was particularly good. And I knew right away his expertise, particularly in training women was above and beyond most. And he gave me a program that essentially I could do anywhere. So my biggest problem was up to that point, I was joining gyms, and I was trying to do programs where I had to accommodate their schedule, where really I needed something to accommodate mine, because each workday looked different.

At that time some days I was in clinic nine to five. Other days, I was working night shift overnight and emerge. You know, there were seven days I've called 24/7. Every day looked different. I really couldn't keep to a gym schedule or class schedule. So this particular trainer designed a program for me that I could do it wherever if I could go to the gym, there was a gym program, if I had to do it at home, he there was something there for me, he even designed programs I could do in my call room.

And all of a sudden, I realized I was getting exercise back into my life in a meaningful way. And I just saw how that basically snowballed into so many positive effects, mainly how I felt, obviously, myself, my own energy levels, but how that also radiated out to my patient care, my how I was able to parent my children, how I was able to be more present patient with my husband, all of the things that we see when you're feeling better about yourself, and you start taking care of yourself.

I approached him one day, and I said, You know what, I have so many women, colleagues, physician colleagues that are struggling with the same thing. And you're you found the solution for me. So how can we share this.

And so he and I brainstormed, I put it out in my local Facebook community physician mom community group said, Hey, does anybody want to try a 12 week program, we'll do we'll give you workouts to do and build this community. And really, it was just sort of a fleeting, like, hey, I found something that worked, maybe it would work for you too. And we put it out. And that was, gosh, probably eight years ago. And since then, we've had hundreds and hundreds, if not more 1000s of women come through our program. And now that's where the physician came to be.

The physician, that's who we are, we are they, it's myself, and Jake Wright, who's that personal trainer who I told you about, who co-founded, we now have a team of other personal trainers, and another physician who does nutrition coaching alongside myself. These are all carefully selected people that really understand the challenges of being a woman physician, and what we need in order to really have programs that are sustainable to our life and our demands. And that's what we do. It's individualized coaching, resistance training and nutrition coaching in a community based atmosphere so that the women who are part of the program are all connected with each other. So they have each other for support as well. It's really been quite magical.

And definitely what was a fleeting idea and almost felt like a hobby at the beginning has really turned into something quite beautiful and definitely a passion that has led me to be able to continue to find joy in my career, including medicine.

John: Well, I'm sure there's a big need for that here my audience and others so I think they'd like to know a little what the feel is and what it's like. How much is it live? Is it commiserating in a like a Facebook group or something? Is it something that's recorded partly? How does that work? If someone's interested, they really want to get fit, they're willing to spend a few hours every week, at least to do that.

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: Yeah, so what it is, is first and foremost, it's you have a discovery call. So that's where you meet with one of our team members, one of our and basically, the biggest thing to recognize is it's not the program isn't meant to be a one size fits all, we really need to figure out what each individual woman physician needs from the program, and we design it for them.

For some women that it looks different for every woman some women really want to focus on their strength training and have a lot of time to commit to that maybe their new empty nesters like me or that stage in their life.

Some are new mothers that don't have the amount of time, they just need things that are quick and sustainable can be done anywhere, whatever it is, some have access to full gyms, some have fairly elaborate home gyms, some have no equipment at all. So no matter where they're at, we are able to design something. So the first the first point of contact is a discovery call just to see what are your wants or needs.

Every woman comes to us for different reasons. Some come looking for just more energy again, feeling just better in their own skin, definitely body composition changes, fat loss muscle gain, some come looking for longevity understanding that as we cross, particularly midlife and beyond our strength, our muscle mass is something we really need to actively intentionally preserve. So we the first call is really about finding out what they want from us and helping design that.

From there, they're paired up with a one of our personal trainers who all have a kinesiology degrees are all very experienced. Very, like I said, that's one particular thing I'm very proud about is how there's a lot of varying degrees of personal trainers out there, you can go and get a weekend course, we are very particular about who we choose. Sometimes you're a detriment.

We need we need more. And we're quite picky about who we select. But they get paired with a personal trainer who then designs the program that fits for them. And what's beautiful about it is you can say, look, I'm three days of call where I'm stuck in a call room, 14 hours, they're like, okay, we'll do one, if you have time, we'll do a call room workout, we'll design that for you. If you've got, if you prefer to work out at home, we can design that for you. If you prefer gym workouts, we'll design that for you.

They're all personally designed based on where the woman is starting. She may never have lifted a weight in her life, or she might be an advanced weight trainer we have, they can design something to suit for all. So that's the fitness part.

And then what they do is they design the programs every week, they check in via zoom calls. So one on one zoom calls with your coach check in, see how things are going. Once per month, they get fitness assessments.

That's where they're actually all virtually but over zoom doing the workouts with the personal trainer who's then saying I want to see you push it here, I think you could lift heavier here, let's try this, or let's readjust your form, those sort of things. From the nutrition point of view, it's myself and Dr. Karina Sims, that that name that that female physician who I told you was my job share partner way back when we first had babies in our internship. She and I have always had a similar passion when it comes to the nutrition space. She and I do the nutrition coaching. That's where we set the women up with their individual plans for nutrition. And then we check in regularly through a variety of things.

But generally, what the women find most helpful is what we call the nutrition office hours, we run them six days a week. And that's where you can just jump on and you have either Karina or I and whatever ladies who you know, who's that time will fit will jump on and you can ask all your nutrition questions, get all of the evidence base and any hurdles or issues you're having, we help troubleshoot. What really is helpful is you're also on with other women physicians who have the same hurdles, we all have the same challenges.

So often a lot of the learning is obviously they ask us questions as nutrition coaches, and we answer but also getting ideas and hearing what's working for other women and strategies and brainstorming is really can be really helpful too.

John: One of the things I found as I've gotten older is that I can come up with a plan for myself, but to actually implement it in real time, without any kind of supervision is not good. So let's say that I've got a plan for the exercise for the next two weeks or whatever it is. Sometimes certain exercises take there's a certain technique in that. So, how do they get that kind of feedback? Say, am I doing this properly? Is this the way I'm supposed to do a burpee or whatever it might be weights?

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: For sure, that's exactly it. When they have their initial assessment with the personal trainer, they go through all those foundational moves this is what a squat looks like. Also, too, we have lots of women who have specific injuries or things that need to be worked around.

Again, this is where working with someone one on one who designs a program for you as an individual versus you as an individual trying to fit yourself into a program or a class or some sort of that's not individualized. This is the difference. So yes, they work with the personal trainer.

And also with those with those weekly zoom check ins, it's a great time to say, you know what, when I'm doing a lunge, I feel a tweak on my inner knee, what's going on there, and they say, show me what you're doing. And then they make the adjustments and they correct that. So yes, it is not an online fitness app, where there is no one on the other side, you're just getting fed programs, we have, there are lots of those.

And honestly, if you're a listener, and that's working for you, that's great. I mean, at the end of the day, all I care about is that my fellow colleagues, both women and men are taking care of themselves, ideally through some form of strength training. And if you found one of those apps, and that's working for you, great.

But for many people, like you just said, it without the accountability piece, it's hard to keep consistent. And that's where a lot of the women find the program really helpful. They've got the weekly check ins from their personal trainer, they've got the regular weekly check ins, or even could be daily check ins, if they choose with their nutrition coaches, so that they know, someone's sort of watching them.

And that helps them keep the Hawthorne effect, right, john, it's our we're more likely to change our behaviors if we know someone is watching. And that is real and true. The biggest thing is that our we always say we are there for accountability, but it's always accountability with empathy, meaning we're not watching, you're not going to be scolded if you don't get your workouts in or you're not getting your nutrition.

Particularly myself, Dr. Sims, like we understand your challenges, we are you we are those women position, women positions who are busy trying to hold everything together. So our accountability and our coaching really does come with a lot of empathy and understanding as well.

John: I think some physicians are fairly analytical, or maybe all of them, other particular required biometrics or measurements of certain sorts, or is it kind of up to the individual consultation? How does that work?

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: Yeah, oh, yes. With physicians love their data. And that's true. And I'm one of them. I can relate. Again, it's very individual. There's a variety of different things, just like so the nutrition, it can be done through food tracking, that works really well for a lot of women. And we have a system, how we can help and we set targets and goals and help them with their food tracking. That's very helpful and very effective, particularly if you're looking for body recomposition changes. And when I say that I'm talking about fat loss and muscle gain. But for some people, that can be very toxic. It's the same thing we can use scale weight can be used in a very data driven way.

Other particularly, and I will speak for women, and I will say, have very toxic relationships with the scale. That is also how we approach the nutrition. And the actual progress indicators is very individual to each person in front of us based on their history based on their, their exposure to diet culture, what they've been raised by what they saw their mothers doing, it's a very, it's very nuanced.

And it deserves individual conversations. And it's something that we address all the time. But I can tell you, we have regardless of where you're coming, or whether you hate the scale, don't hit the scale, whether you want to food track, don't food track, we have ways that you can achieve your goals without causing any sort of emotional harm that way. It's not again, it's not a one size fits all, we see what each individual needs.

John: Another thing that always comes up is going to be cost. And I'm not expecting you to lay out the cost, per se, or the fees. But is it is there like something where someone who just like needs a touch point once a week versus someone who like needs a lot of coaching on fitness and exercise and so forth, I assume it might vary from person to person.

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: We do require a six month commitment to the full package. And the reason being is I really find we've tried it different ways. And we really find the success comes with the full package. And it's when I say success, I mean, true, foundational fundamental change, meaning things that will stick.

We've all done the one offs and the programs, but what matters to us is that when you finish with us, you have new fundamentals and just basic principles to the way you live your life that will stick with you. So these aren't fad diets.

These aren't quick fixes. These are just, I now look at the way I move my body differently, and I have certain expectations and of myself, and the way I move my body intentionally to feel good and the way I feel my body. So there are six months is really how long it takes.

And a lot of that is not just from a workout right away. Women physicians, I found, we're very good at being told what to do and doing it, meaning if we're if a plan is given to us, we will follow the plan. And you know, the workout plans are there.

Nutrition takes a bit more time, because it's everybody's different. Everybody has different preferences. Everybody has different philosophies, the way they eat, they approach, everybody has different family dynamics, feeding small children versus picky eaters.

That takes a little bit more time to work out. And but it's the mindset part. It's so much of what we what we work with is helping women physicians get rid of the all or nothing, right, get rid of the need to be perfect all the time, start to understand it really is about consistency, not perfection. It really is about progress, small progress, versus trying to get it perfect all the time. That takes time, but those changes are what lasts. And you know, there's nothing more amazing to me.

And it will still to be one of my most favorite things and all of my professional hats that I wear is when I hear women say I feel so much better about myself. But even more than that, like I have a better relationship with food, I've let go, like the food noise is quieted down the guilt around all of those things that are often coming with us, particularly with any woman who's coming because they want to lose weight, there is a lot of that that needs to be deconstructed a lot of food rules that need to be deconstructed. So, that takes time.

We do look for that six months, and you are getting personalized, individualized coaching. So there is a higher price point on that. Once you've been with us for six months, we have something called the legacy program, where it's like a once per month check in and it's a lower price point. But that's only once you've been through the six months of the individualized coaching.

John: Well, I'm going to have some other questions from a different angle in a minute. But I want to stop here and tell us again, the website, the physician, and so forth. I looked on there, there were a ton of testimonials or success stories and all that. Is that the best way to go?

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: And then also you want to mention the other social media site, really who you're going to be working with, I especially in any sort of coaching space, but the fitness and nutrition, I think it's important for you to feel who these people are, what our philosophies are, what our personalities are approach.

One of the best ways to learn a little bit more about Jake and I, in particular, we have the Fit Physician podcast. And in the podcast, we there's so much wonderful information in the evidence based nutrition and fitness space, we have wonderful guests we have, but it really gives you a feel for our approach.

And because our program does come with a price tag that is not it's something to be considered, I really do encourage our clients to spend some time listening to our podcast, where I you will really get a feel for my approach to nutrition, Jake's approaches to fitness and just our personalities in general, because just like any other sort of coaching, it really is about finding the person who feels right to you.

Again, the podcast is a great way and it's just a great way to get some really, really good information. Maybe you don't need coaching, maybe you are curious, though, a little bit about more evidence based nutrition or fitness, that would be a great place to go. We also share a lot of our content on Instagram at the Fit Physician coaching, a really great way to see some of our content as well. And then yes, the website as well www.thefitphysician.com.

John: What occurs to me, a lot of times what happens when I have a guest in a podcast, and we're talking about something like coaching or something similar to this, it's always, there's always a little component and say, but that's what I want to do. There's a lot of physicians out there to are like when I found out really medical school and residency what I really cared about was diet and exercise and natural things, not necessarily doing surgery to correct the coronary artery disease or something. I guess a couple questions.

First of all, what was it like creating a business? And do you have any advice if someone says I'm just going to go off on my own and try and learn what I can maybe get some certifications and do this by myself locally. And about having a partner, that's some businesses are a little scared about having partners, because you know, if you'd have a disagreement, the whole thing might fall apart.

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: In there live that not with this one, but I've been practice owners and clinic owners. If there's one thing medical school does not teach us is anything business related. At least not in Canada and not in Australia, where I may be different in the States, but we really were not, we were not taught to be business people. So, yeah, the one thing I would say is, truly and honestly, this side gig, which it's as much as my gig as my clinical gig. It started as a side gig and now my proper job, which I love, but it didn't start out like I didn't create it to be that. It was simply my passion.

And I thought I had a solution. I found a solution that would help fellow women colleagues physicians. So it wasn't like me looking for an out from clinical medicine. I still love my clinical medicine. I've loved it to variable degrees. And as I've already explained, I've moved it around to make it look different so that I can continue to like it. But it was, this was not something that I just sort of looked for as an exit.

It just came to be mainly because of my passion for it. So I would encourage anyone, if you're really passionate about something, finding ways to pursue that and turn it into something I think could never go wrong. Passion is the best driver, I think, for success.

What we always say is remembering your why is the most powerful driver to keep the momentum going. And my why truly was to help my colleagues feel better the way fitness and nutrition made me feel better. Like I remember the stark change in the way I lived my life.

And I wanted to be able to share that. It doesn't come without challenges. And I will be the first to say my best worst, my best piece of advice would be know what you don't know and be willing to sort of delegate, which can be hard. I think physicians were very type A personalities. We, we aren't always the best delegators. We prefer to do ourselves because we trust ourselves and not always the work of others.

But I have to say my partner, Jake, has been such an instrumental part to we wouldn't be where we are, if we didn't have the skills and strengths of each other, but the fact that we also recognize our own weaknesses. So I am the idea guy, john, it, you could almost argue I'm a touch ADHD, but maybe not. Meaning I have big ideas, and I want, but I'm not always great at the nitty gritty details of the execution.

I know what I want to achieve. But then once we get down to the more nitty gritty finite, finite things, I get a bit bored. And then I go on to my next idea. That's a that's a bit how my brain rolls. So Jake is the executor. He does the more finite, finite details and things like that. And I think recognizing in early in the piece, what you're good at, and what you're not as good at, you either need to commit to being better.

Finding time to learn about those things and be or find someone to join your team, whether it be in partnership or as an employee type, but find people in your team who can take over that role and do that. Because I can tell you, if I hadn't recognized the fact that I'm a great thinker, but not always a great executor to the finer detail, this wouldn't be off the ground.

I would be on to my 10th idea, and it would still not be off the ground. Like that's just the reality. But Jake is the doer. He's also extremely, extremely knowledgeable in marketing and sales. And he's made a point of learning and really investing in that. And so I've pushed him encouraged him to do that while he pushes and me encourages me to learn where I need to and grow where I need to and continue to balance out with each other.

And so far, knock on wood, we have not had any, any major altercations. But like I said, in other businesses in the past, I have and it is a reason for concern. And it is you do definitely want to proceed with caution when you're partnering with anyone.

John: Some businesses wouldn't get off the ground if there weren't other people involved, obviously, and the successful businesses, they almost always have some team they may all report to you, but you have to have a team because nobody can do everything. So but I think I've seen several settings where without a partner or even a larger group doing something, it wouldn't have gotten off the ground. So if you can do it on your own fine, but if not, then don't be too proud to say I need to bring someone in but have a very, very, very, very good attorney.

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: Yeah, that's true. Very, very detailed agreements. And that's what I mean by the finer details and not in business, but in previous ones, I have definitely been burnt by thinking it's all going to be fine. We're friends now. Well, how would we ever end up? Yeah, it doesn't always work out that way.

John: I don't think I've mentioned this on the podcast before. But when I was in a three man group, and you know, early in my career, we had no contract, we had no agreement, it was all based on let's just do this. And looking back, I'm thinking, Oh, my God, what was I thinking? Because I would never do that today. But you know, I did separate from them. And somehow we made it work. But my attorney is blew his mind that we had no agreement.

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: What we did when we were young, and didn't know any better.

John: That's right. Okay, well, that that's really, this is a lot to think of. But this has been very interesting to me. And it kind of inspires other people, hey, if you're really into this, then maybe you can do it. And if you really need it, then you know where to go. So again, give us the first is the podcast, the Fit Physician.

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: Yeah, the Fit Physician podcast and or Instagram handle at the Fit Physician coaching.

John: Okay. And I'll put those in the show notes along with anything else related to that and links and so forth. Well, then it's really I just want to thank you for taking the time and talking with us today. It's been very inspiring, inspirational and very interesting. So I thank you for being here, Suzanne.

Dr. Suzanne Rutherford: Thank you for having me.

John: You're welcome. Bye-bye.