Interview with Dr. Emma Nichols – 370
In this podcast episode replay, Emma Nichols, PhD, explains what it takes to be a freelance medical writer.
She is a medical writer herself and runs a medical writing services company that hires other medical writers. She also teaches scientists and healthcare professionals, including physicians, how to build successful freelance writing businesses.
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[From the original post in 2018:]
Working as a freelance medical writer is a great nonclinical career for several reasons:
- You can start by working part-time.
- There is a lot of flexibility.
- The demand for writers continues to grow.
- A large cash investment is not required to start.
My guest, Dr. Emma Nichols, addressed all the topics listed above in today’s interview.
Find Freedom as a Freelance Medical Writer
She has a doctorate in molecular biology. And, she’s a seasoned medical communications professional. She specializes in continuing medical education and news writing. Her company, Nascent Medical, provides expert medical writing services using a team of experienced MD- and PhD-level writers.
As she was building her company, she needed to vet and train capable writers. That led to the development of a course to train freelance medical writers about the business. Dozens of physicians have launched their own writing careers based on Dr. Nichols' training.
I’ve personally spoken with several writers who have recommended her course. So, I thought she’d be an excellent guest for the podcast.
Emma provided some great advice for those considering a career in medical writing. She described the benefits of a career as a freelance medical writer. And she outlined the personality traits that best fit such a career. She suggested that writers start out by writing part-time to see how well they like it.
Other Resources to Help You Be a Freelance Medical Writer
Emma mentioned the American Medical Writers Association (aka “AMWA”). It's a good resource for physicians considering a writing career. She also suggested looking at the Regulatory Affairs Professionals Society if you're interested in technical writing.
Emma also produces a course for professionals that has taught hundreds of them to be freelance medical writers. You can learn more about her course at 6weekcourse.com.
If you'd like another perspective on medical writing, you should also listen to my interview with Mandy Armitage in Episode #22.
Thanks again for listening. I hope to see you next time on Physician NonClinical Careers.
Links for today's episode:
- Emma Nichols, PhD, LinkedIn Profile
- Emma Nichol's Writing Services: Nascent Medical, LLC
- Emma Nichols' Freelance Medical Writing Course
- Regulatory Affairs Professionals Society
- American Medical Writers Association
- Dr. Armin Feldman's Pre-trial Pre-litigation Medical Legal Consulting COACHING Program
If you liked today’s episode, please tell your friends about it and SHARE it on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.
Right click here and “Save As” to download this podcast episode to your computer.
How to Be a Freelance Medical Writer Today - A PNC Classic from 2018
John: All right! I'm so happy to welcome Dr. Emma Nichols to the PNC podcast today. Hi Emma, how are you?
Emma: Hi. I'm great and excited to be here. Thank you.
John: You know, I usually kind of try to mention at the beginning of the interview how it is I came to know the guest. And I was interviewing somebody about a year ago about medical writing, which is a very interesting topic for physicians who are looking for a nonclinical career. And I had already seen your name written somewhere in a blog post somewhere and she mentioned that she had gone through your course. And she really liked it and she mentioned some of the things that I'm going to ask you about.
So, it came up again a few weeks ago and I said, "Well I'm going to track down Dr Nichols and see if she'll come on the podcast." So you were kind enough to say yes. And so here we are. Thanks for joining us.
Emma: Yeah, no problem. I'm excited. Thanks.
John: So I mean, you've been doing teaching of writing from what I can tell for at least 12 years, but can you tell us like how you got into the teaching? What were you doing, what was your background educationally, and then how did you get into teaching us physicians and other professionals how to write?
Emma: Yeah, interesting. So in '94 is when, which really ages me, but in '94 is when I started at Emory and it took me six long, painful years to get my PhD in molecular biology. And so going through the PhD I didn't really want to go into academia. I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I'd put all this time into studying science, working in a lab and I wanted to get my, finish up my PhD, but I'm like, what can I do with my degree and not have to work 80 hours a week and make $50,000 a year if I'm lucky? You know? That kind of thing. So I was looking for career options and I came across science writing, looked more into it, found that it was a thing and started pursuing that right in the middle of graduate school, getting my PhD.
I also started working on a Master's in technical writing and just with the goal of finishing up my degree and going into freelance writing. I didn't really know about medical writing, but science writing is what I heard about. And then, medical writing I found to be a subset. So that's what drew me in to that. So I was able to do that, the freelance right after I finished my PhD and I said, "You know what, God, higher power, whatever it is, if this works out, I'm going to help other people do this."
That are miserable in their graduate school and a lot of MDs of course, also have a tough time. It's such a difficult thing to do, be an MD these days. So I get a lot of MDs that want to consider medical writing as a career.
John: So now, what kind of writing were you doing back then?
Emma: Well I started trying to get freelance work while I was in graduate school and really that was right when the internet was really taking off, which is funny to say nowadays, right? But it was about 2000, 2001 and WebMD called me up on the phone. WebMD is huge now, but the CEO of WebMD called me up, I'm in Atlanta. Can you do some writing for us? And so that's what it was back then. I just started trying to take on all kinds of writing work, medical writing work, whatever I could get my hands on basically.
John: So then how long were you doing that before you actually started teaching others to write?
Emma: Right. So from about 2000 to 2010 I worked full time, it was a real conveyor belt. I had clients, I was very busy and I often had to turn work away, which was great. But then I started trying to subcontract out and it would fail miserably and have to redo the work all night or it was just a big mess. But around 2011 I was getting so many questions about how to get into medical writing and also the subcontracting thing. I wanted kind of a way to figure out who would be good at subcontracting before I gave any work to them.
So out of that kind of evolved what I call it, the six-week course. And so that was 2011, so seven years ago and I didn't realize it, but that turned out to be the best writing test that I could put a subcontractor through. So a relatively new or inexperienced writer with an MD or PhD would go through the course and I would teach them how to get their website set up and all about the different kinds of medical writing.
Emma: And in six weeks' time I could tell who was going to do well and try to get them some paying work, which would be really great. And so that's morphed into what we have now, which is kind of an online platform. It was all written back then and I've written a book on the whole thing which is similar to, it just describes medical writing. So that's how I did it. And I would say the course doesn't really teach writing because you can learn writing many different places, but it teaches about what medical writing is and the different kinds. And then it also teaches about the business of how to work with clients and get set up. So that's what I do. I don't teach writing per se, so more like getting into it.
John: So it's really to actually create or to use medical writing as an actual business or a way to earn a living. But why don't you, since you brought that up, could you briefly give us an overview of what the different types of medical writing are and kind of what your particular expertise is in terms of the course?
Emma: The two main types of medical writing, I would split it into two. You've got regulatory writing, which is all the documents that the FDA requires to get a drug from start to finish, and that's a massive industry and I don't do any of that kind of writing. There's people that specialize in that. I find it a little dry and it's not my area of expertise. If somebody is very interested in that, they should check out RAPS.org. That's Regulatory Affairs Professionals Society, and I think they even have courses and training and all of that. So that's a good place to start for that.
Emma: And then the other type of medical writing is non-regulatory, so that will be many different kinds. So CME, Continuing Medical Education with which MDs of course are very familiar. All right, so that can be manuscripts, slide decks presented at meetings and all kinds of CME. It's supposed to be fair and balanced. We try to make it that way.
John: Right.
Emma: And then there's also feature articles, right? So you can write those for clinicians, but also for the lay public. So there's all that broad range of different audiences that can use medical writing. There's medical news, which is a lot of what we do, through my company. Manuscripts ... Oh, and a big one is Needs Assessments, which is a part of a grant that's used to try to get funding from a pharma company to pay for these educational programs. So the needs assessments is a big thing that we do too. A lot of those.
I'm trying to think if there's anything else. Any kind of web content that's medical related, we do.
John: Okay. Very good. Very good. Let me step back because you know, we're getting sort of into the nitty gritty here, but I guess one of the things I wonder what your experience has been, what is it that is positive about medical writing?
In other words, what ... I've known a few that have tried and it maybe didn't work out, and a few that just love it. Do you have a sense of who would be a good medical writer, or what are the positives and the good things about this as a career?
Emma: Yeah, it's very interesting because not everybody is cut out for it. You need to be ... If you're like a people person and you enjoy clinical practice and interacting with the patients all the time and then you become a medical writer and you're isolated all day long working computers, some people that's a living death and to other people that's just fine. You know? Just no more patients, I'm just going to sit at my computer and write all day long. So you have to evaluate your personality. I described myself as kind of a friendly introvert.
I like my own company most of the time, but it's good to have a sort of a people skill or customer service kind of approach. So kind of somewhere in the middle. It's good if you're detail-oriented, obviously a lot of what we do doesn't really get checked up over. So if you're not good at writing in the right figures and units, then you should not do medical writing. You have to be very accurate. But you also have to be able to see the big picture of like, is this piece suitable for my audience? Is it going to get my point across?
If you have a kind of a teaching instinct, which a lot of doctors do, then that characteristic for medical writing ... If you can put yourself in the mind of the end user. Like if you're explaining to a patient how something works, then you have to think about what that patient would need to hear in a way that they can process it. So medical writing's a lot like that. Kind of an empathy you have to have. All right? And then being organized to like, because especially when you're freelancing you have different clients and different stages of payments and billing and invoicing and the business side of things too. You got to stay a little organized. That's like any kind of freelancing is like that.
John: All right, very good. Well, let me ask you this then. So that gives me a good picture of the type of person. That could maybe be me, kind of mostly introverted. I like talking to people at times, but I don't get energized by being in crowds. That's for sure.
Emma: If you go to our medical writing conference where a bunch of librarians is what we're like. We're geeky, a little bit geeky and mostly women actually it's 75% women usually that do medical writing.
John: No, it's good to know that because-
Emma: I don't know if I fit in or not.
John: Well, you know, a lot of physicians are looking for that next career and one of the things they have to do is sort of like a self-assessment. Am I really suited for this particular type of work? So those, no those are good insights.
Emma: I would say a question that you might not ask me. So I wanted to be sure to say this, but a lot of times I'll get clinicians entering into my course and I think one thing that clinicians can do sometimes is work part-time. And so that's a good way to transition over into medical writing. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. So if you're able to do that. I do have clinicians that are with my company that write with me and obviously still practice medicine. So it can be very good to be able to juggle that.
John: Well that's good that's another thing to know because there are certain types of careers you can't do that in. It's pretty much an all or none. So you could definitely get your toe in the water and see if you like it. And if you do then maybe make the transition over time.
Emma: Exactly.
John: Excellent. Okay. Well let me ask you this now. What is it like to be in your course? I'm imagining it includes some feedback from you or others about how our work is doing as we're progressing. Is that right?
Emma: Yeah. Yeah. And I recently just kind of overhauled it. Basically, there's six weeks' worth of modules that you can do. And the first one is about medical writing, the next one's writing news, writing CME, feature article writing, setting up shop and then running your business. So it's six weeks, but you don't have to do it in six weeks. You can do it however long you want. And then we do have feedback and actually that's now, we've just changed it so it's in the form of tests and so you just take like a test and we have experienced writers who and myself too, that will look at that, provide feedback, send it back and you can use those as samples to get started. Because whenever you get your first clients are like, "Well what have you written?" And so that's good to have some samples. Even if they're not published, it shows that you can do the work. That's basically what it's like.
John: That sounds pretty well organized and kind of hit all the major aspects of the, actually the whole career and not just trying to write and perfecting your writing, but doing the work associated with it and the business side.
Emma: Exactly. And we also have a support like Facebook group that, we have a closed Facebook group and I'll hop in there and answer questions. And so it's not like you're on your own when you're trying to set up business, setup shop.
John: Right. Now you had said earlier about how this course became a way to identify writers maybe for your own business and one of the people I spoke to talked about sort of putting this writing, submitting articles, maybe getting them accepted and kind of creating a portfolio, but she made it sound like that your company was actually sort of helping her get some of those writing assignments. How does that work?
Emma: Yeah, so we play, me and my assistants pay close attention to who comes through the course and if somebody has the exact right background and does a good job, you know? Yeah. We'll try to get you work in and set you up with a client and you're encouraged to go out and get your own clients and the modules and everything to help with that. But yeah, wherever possible we try to give real work.
John: Yeah. So. Okay. So I'm trying to just imagine what the course is like. So part of the course, as you said, since it's about trying to develop your business, we'll teach you how to find sources of journals or CME providers or others who are looking for freelance writers basically is how I take it.
Emma: Exactly. And mostly these days ... I mean it used to be you could email people and they'd respond, but these days it's much more, people don't want to get your email. It's too much spam going on. But there's networking and AMWA meetings and making connections. A lot of people that are MDs have academic connections that they haven't thought of. They have hospitals, in the academic institutions there's medical communications. So all those places, that's a warm connection that you should try to reach out to, to get your first clients.
John: Okay, great. Now let me ask you this. I ask most of my guests this question. I think it applies to our interview here today and maybe a little different from the one we talked about in terms of the personality and so forth. But can you recall any maybe major mistakes that a fledgling physician writers have made? You know, as they're trying to advance this career, things they should avoid?
Emma: Well you know the beautiful thing about getting into this is there's no downside. It's not like you're buying huge pieces of equipment or ... There's no risk. Most doctors are like, "Well, what about the litigious side? What about the errors and omissions?"
Emma: And I'm like, you know, there's never- and I jinx myself. But there's never really been a lawsuit against medical writers. It's not the same because you've got several layers of people checking your work and ultimately a thought leader, a medical thought leader would be kind of their name is on a lot of it. So. But anyway, so big mistakes. The biggest mistake, the general mistake that I see that is so easy to avoid, the thing that drives me crazy that I see among some writers is that they don't follow the directions. All you need to do is follow the directions.
So, you've got your medical knowledge, your writing ability, and then your brain, which is going to be important in medical writing. And then just following what the client wants. Like you got to find out what the client wants. Sometimes they don't always tell you properly, but you need to get a sample of what it is they're looking for. Ask questions. And I guess when you're starting out you think, "Well maybe this is a stupid question and I shouldn't be asking it."
But yeah, just follow the directions, including down to the font that's used, whatever. And try to think of what your customer needs. And I've written ... I've made the same mistake, like I've written the wrong piece because I didn't get the right angle on it and then I've had to redo it. So that's no fun.
John: No, that's really good. I hadn't even thought about that, but as you were discussing that, I remember I do some editing for a CME provider. They provide manuscripts and then they give CME credit if you complete a quiz or something. But in any event, I asked them about writing for them. I had never actually written for them, but I was like editing and I was kind of reviewing it from the standpoint of accreditation because I've been involved with CME accreditation. And they said, "Okay, I we'll just send you the author guidelines."
And they sent me this four-page document and I said, wow. I mean it was very detailed, but I can see how, if I just didn't pay attention and sent something in, it's like, hold on, we told you it can't look like that, you know?
Emma: Right. Exactly. And I will say too, this is an important point for clinicians going into medical writing. When you say you're an MD, I don't know what this is like, but I would imagine, when you say you're an MD, people are like, "Wow."
There's a wow factor to it and you have a certain respect that you garner because you've obviously gone through medical school and MD and everything. And when you say you're a medical writer, people don't really know what that is. And you lose that wow factor, and it's dull, honestly. I don't think it's dull, but people find it dull. You don't talk about medical writing, they don't even know what that is. So when you transitioned over from being an MD to a medical writer, there's that. There's a disconnect. But being a medical writer you don't have to deal with patients. You can work your own hours, you can make just as much money as a doctor. You know, many benefits. So that's the tradeoff.
John: The other's downsides of being a practicing physician and any career. But yeah, I would think that people that go into it, they're definitely looking at those upsides. The flexibility, the managing their own time. Maybe like you said, it's a freelance, it's your own business. So there's definitely some positives there once you ... But it takes time I'm sure, to build that portfolio to build the clients that are coming back maybe for repeat business.
Emma: Yeah. So everybody that hires a medical writer, most everybody, is going to need a need that person again or need that service again, which is great. So that's a good part about the business. I've seen people get really busy, especially with work, the really good people that write for us. We just put more, lots of work on them because they happen to fit what we need and they just are off and running in like three months, a month, like immediately. And so it doesn't have to take a long time to get, it depends how hard you work, you know?
John: No, that's good to know because I think some physicians are thinking, "Well it's going to be a year or two before I get to a point where I really have that consistent income."
Emma: Doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be.
John: Well I know you've been teaching this course for a while, but I understand that you're kind of relaunching it now. I'm sure you do this every once in a while. So you've got a webinar coming up that's free. What's that about?
Emma: Yeah. Thank you for mentioning that. So October 25th, which I think will be after when this podcast comes out. So that's great. October 25th, Thursday at 2:00 PM. I'm giving a ... Let's see. It's called Freelance Medical Writer: A Lucrative Work-From-Home Career Choice. It's a free webinar. It's going to be about 45 minutes or so. You can ask questions and then I'll tell you at the end a little bit more about the six-week course if you're interested in that.
And let's see, the best way to sign up to that is to go to the website which is 6weekcourse.com. And check it out. Just click on that to register. It's free and that's about it. Ask any questions you want.
John: We'll definitely put that in the show notes. So there'll be a link right there that they can link to and get signed up for that. If they have any interest in writing as a potential career, I think that'd be probably be about the quickest way to learn. What's going to be the content of the webinar?
Emma: Let's see what I put on my little notes here. It is ... okay. So what skills and background needed for freelance medical writing? So what's about that. And then what types of clients and work can you get? And then how much can you make? And what's it like?
So, I cover those things.
John: Awesome. That's good. That would pretty much answer their questions and if they had any, reservation, they might be able to get past it. I mean part of it is just the fear of trying something new. So if you can get access to something like that and answer their questions.
Emma: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, it is a big deal I think. Especially for clinicians they've had the support of their friends and family to go through medical school and now they've got this great career and why would they possibly want to throw that away to do something like set up their own writing business? What is that? So yeah, there's a lot of reservations for a lot of people, but you got to be happy, right? You've got to have the life that you want.
John: Yeah. No, you have to do a job that, you know, brings you some joy and happiness. And if you're burnt out or you're just ... The thing is, some of us decided to go into medicine when we're basically young adults or teenagers and then we find out 15 years later, well maybe it wasn't really what I wanted to do. So there's lots of different options and medical writing is a good one.
Emma: Yeah. And you know, the MD is just such a great degree to have for ... Like I have a PhD and I'll never know about the clinical side and I've written about medicine. But yeah, to have that MD is very helpful.
John: Absolutely. That's very encouraging. What else would you like ... What the other advice or comments or anything else you want to tell us about your business? Easy way to get a hold of you?
Emma: So my email's on my 6 week course website, but definitely you can reach out also through LinkedIn if you're interested, if you're on LinkedIn. I'm trying to think ... Words of parting advice. I mean if you do seriously want to make a transition, definitely you can just try to take on a little writing work somehow, if you can get that, I don't know. And see if you actually enjoy it. Because I have people come through the course that, they thought they would enjoy it, but that turns out it's not for them. So that's also good to find that out before you, you know, may completely quit your job and, and go set up a new business. Definitely try to try it out if you can.
John: That sounds like a good idea. I know there's a subset of physicians that just, I think, like to write and so it definitely they will be able to have lots of opportunities to do that before jumping in. So. Well, I really appreciate all the information you've given us today Emma. It's been really interesting.
Emma: Yeah.
John: I know there's a whole cohort of my listeners that are interested in writing because I get occasional emails and comments, so I think they'll get a lot out of what you've told us today and if they have any further interest, they should go to a 6weekcourse.com and follow up and attend the webinar. It'll be very informational.
Emma: Great. Well thank you so much. I really appreciate being given the opportunity to talk about it and wish you the best of luck, and your listeners too. That's great.
John: Thanks a lot. Well with that, I guess I'll say goodbye.
Emma: Bye. Thanks so much.
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How to Be a Freelance Medical Writer Today - A PNC Classic from 2018
John: All right! I'm so happy to welcome Dr. Emma Nichols to the PNC podcast today. Hi Emma, how are you?
Emma: Hi. I'm great and excited to be here. Thank you.
John: You know, I usually kind of try to mention at the beginning of the interview how it is I came to know the guest. And I was interviewing somebody about a year ago about medical writing, which is a very interesting topic for physicians who are looking for a nonclinical career. And I had already seen your name written somewhere in a blog post somewhere and she mentioned that she had gone through your course. And she really liked it and she mentioned some of the things that I'm going to ask you about.
So, it came up again a few weeks ago and I said, "Well I'm going to track down Dr Nichols and see if she'll come on the podcast." So you were kind enough to say yes. And so here we are. Thanks for joining us.
Emma: Yeah, no problem. I'm excited. Thanks.
John: So I mean, you've been doing teaching of writing from what I can tell for at least 12 years, but can you tell us like how you got into the teaching? What were you doing, what was your background educationally, and then how did you get into teaching us physicians and other professionals how to write?
Emma: Yeah, interesting. So in '94 is when, which really ages me, but in '94 is when I started at Emory and it took me six long, painful years to get my PhD in molecular biology. And so going through the PhD I didn't really want to go into academia. I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I'd put all this time into studying science, working in a lab and I wanted to get my, finish up my PhD, but I'm like, what can I do with my degree and not have to work 80 hours a week and make $50,000 a year if I'm lucky? You know? That kind of thing. So I was looking for career options and I came across science writing, looked more into it, found that it was a thing and started pursuing that right in the middle of graduate school, getting my PhD.
I also started working on a Master's in technical writing and just with the goal of finishing up my degree and going into freelance writing. I didn't really know about medical writing, but science writing is what I heard about. And then, medical writing I found to be a subset. So that's what drew me in to that. So I was able to do that, the freelance right after I finished my PhD and I said, "You know what, God, higher power, whatever it is, if this works out, I'm going to help other people do this."
That are miserable in their graduate school and a lot of MDs of course, also have a tough time. It's such a difficult thing to do, be an MD these days. So I get a lot of MDs that want to consider medical writing as a career.
John: So now, what kind of writing were you doing back then?
Emma: Well I started trying to get freelance work while I was in graduate school and really that was right when the internet was really taking off, which is funny to say nowadays, right? But it was about 2000, 2001 and WebMD called me up on the phone. WebMD is huge now, but the CEO of WebMD called me up, I'm in Atlanta. Can you do some writing for us? And so that's what it was back then. I just started trying to take on all kinds of writing work, medical writing work, whatever I could get my hands on basically.
John: So then how long were you doing that before you actually started teaching others to write?
Emma: Right. So from about 2000 to 2010 I worked full time, it was a real conveyor belt. I had clients, I was very busy and I often had to turn work away, which was great. But then I started trying to subcontract out and it would fail miserably and have to redo the work all night or it was just a big mess. But around 2011 I was getting so many questions about how to get into medical writing and also the subcontracting thing. I wanted kind of a way to figure out who would be good at subcontracting before I gave any work to them.
So out of that kind of evolved what I call it, the six-week course. And so that was 2011, so seven years ago and I didn't realize it, but that turned out to be the best writing test that I could put a subcontractor through. So a relatively new or inexperienced writer with an MD or PhD would go through the course and I would teach them how to get their website set up and all about the different kinds of medical writing.
Emma: And in six weeks' time I could tell who was going to do well and try to get them some paying work, which would be really great. And so that's morphed into what we have now, which is kind of an online platform. It was all written back then and I've written a book on the whole thing which is similar to, it just describes medical writing. So that's how I did it. And I would say the course doesn't really teach writing because you can learn writing many different places, but it teaches about what medical writing is and the different kinds. And then it also teaches about the business of how to work with clients and get set up. So that's what I do. I don't teach writing per se, so more like getting into it.
John: So it's really to actually create or to use medical writing as an actual business or a way to earn a living. But why don't you, since you brought that up, could you briefly give us an overview of what the different types of medical writing are and kind of what your particular expertise is in terms of the course?
Emma: The two main types of medical writing, I would split it into two. You've got regulatory writing, which is all the documents that the FDA requires to get a drug from start to finish, and that's a massive industry and I don't do any of that kind of writing. There's people that specialize in that. I find it a little dry and it's not my area of expertise. If somebody is very interested in that, they should check out RAPS.org. That's Regulatory Affairs Professionals Society, and I think they even have courses and training and all of that. So that's a good place to start for that.
Emma: And then the other type of medical writing is non-regulatory, so that will be many different kinds. So CME, Continuing Medical Education with which MDs of course are very familiar. All right, so that can be manuscripts, slide decks presented at meetings and all kinds of CME. It's supposed to be fair and balanced. We try to make it that way.
John: Right.
Emma: And then there's also feature articles, right? So you can write those for clinicians, but also for the lay public. So there's all that broad range of different audiences that can use medical writing. There's medical news, which is a lot of what we do, through my company. Manuscripts ... Oh, and a big one is Needs Assessments, which is a part of a grant that's used to try to get funding from a pharma company to pay for these educational programs. So the needs assessments is a big thing that we do too. A lot of those.
I'm trying to think if there's anything else. Any kind of web content that's medical related, we do.
John: Okay. Very good. Very good. Let me step back because you know, we're getting sort of into the nitty gritty here, but I guess one of the things I wonder what your experience has been, what is it that is positive about medical writing?
In other words, what ... I've known a few that have tried and it maybe didn't work out, and a few that just love it. Do you have a sense of who would be a good medical writer, or what are the positives and the good things about this as a career?
Emma: Yeah, it's very interesting because not everybody is cut out for it. You need to be ... If you're like a people person and you enjoy clinical practice and interacting with the patients all the time and then you become a medical writer and you're isolated all day long working computers, some people that's a living death and to other people that's just fine. You know? Just no more patients, I'm just going to sit at my computer and write all day long. So you have to evaluate your personality. I described myself as kind of a friendly introvert.
I like my own company most of the time, but it's good to have a sort of a people skill or customer service kind of approach. So kind of somewhere in the middle. It's good if you're detail-oriented, obviously a lot of what we do doesn't really get checked up over. So if you're not good at writing in the right figures and units, then you should not do medical writing. You have to be very accurate. But you also have to be able to see the big picture of like, is this piece suitable for my audience? Is it going to get my point across?
If you have a kind of a teaching instinct, which a lot of doctors do, then that characteristic for medical writing ... If you can put yourself in the mind of the end user. Like if you're explaining to a patient how something works, then you have to think about what that patient would need to hear in a way that they can process it. So medical writing's a lot like that. Kind of an empathy you have to have. All right? And then being organized to like, because especially when you're freelancing you have different clients and different stages of payments and billing and invoicing and the business side of things too. You got to stay a little organized. That's like any kind of freelancing is like that.
John: All right, very good. Well, let me ask you this then. So that gives me a good picture of the type of person. That could maybe be me, kind of mostly introverted. I like talking to people at times, but I don't get energized by being in crowds. That's for sure.
Emma: If you go to our medical writing conference where a bunch of librarians is what we're like. We're geeky, a little bit geeky and mostly women actually it's 75% women usually that do medical writing.
John: No, it's good to know that because-
Emma: I don't know if I fit in or not.
John: Well, you know, a lot of physicians are looking for that next career and one of the things they have to do is sort of like a self-assessment. Am I really suited for this particular type of work? So those, no those are good insights.
Emma: I would say a question that you might not ask me. So I wanted to be sure to say this, but a lot of times I'll get clinicians entering into my course and I think one thing that clinicians can do sometimes is work part-time. And so that's a good way to transition over into medical writing. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. So if you're able to do that. I do have clinicians that are with my company that write with me and obviously still practice medicine. So it can be very good to be able to juggle that.
John: Well that's good that's another thing to know because there are certain types of careers you can't do that in. It's pretty much an all or none. So you could definitely get your toe in the water and see if you like it. And if you do then maybe make the transition over time.
Emma: Exactly.
John: Excellent. Okay. Well let me ask you this now. What is it like to be in your course? I'm imagining it includes some feedback from you or others about how our work is doing as we're progressing. Is that right?
Emma: Yeah. Yeah. And I recently just kind of overhauled it. Basically, there's six weeks' worth of modules that you can do. And the first one is about medical writing, the next one's writing news, writing CME, feature article writing, setting up shop and then running your business. So it's six weeks, but you don't have to do it in six weeks. You can do it however long you want. And then we do have feedback and actually that's now, we've just changed it so it's in the form of tests and so you just take like a test and we have experienced writers who and myself too, that will look at that, provide feedback, send it back and you can use those as samples to get started. Because whenever you get your first clients are like, "Well what have you written?" And so that's good to have some samples. Even if they're not published, it shows that you can do the work. That's basically what it's like.
John: That sounds pretty well organized and kind of hit all the major aspects of the, actually the whole career and not just trying to write and perfecting your writing, but doing the work associated with it and the business side.
Emma: Exactly. And we also have a support like Facebook group that, we have a closed Facebook group and I'll hop in there and answer questions. And so it's not like you're on your own when you're trying to set up business, setup shop.
John: Right. Now you had said earlier about how this course became a way to identify writers maybe for your own business and one of the people I spoke to talked about sort of putting this writing, submitting articles, maybe getting them accepted and kind of creating a portfolio, but she made it sound like that your company was actually sort of helping her get some of those writing assignments. How does that work?
Emma: Yeah, so we play, me and my assistants pay close attention to who comes through the course and if somebody has the exact right background and does a good job, you know? Yeah. We'll try to get you work in and set you up with a client and you're encouraged to go out and get your own clients and the modules and everything to help with that. But yeah, wherever possible we try to give real work.
John: Yeah. So. Okay. So I'm trying to just imagine what the course is like. So part of the course, as you said, since it's about trying to develop your business, we'll teach you how to find sources of journals or CME providers or others who are looking for freelance writers basically is how I take it.
Emma: Exactly. And mostly these days ... I mean it used to be you could email people and they'd respond, but these days it's much more, people don't want to get your email. It's too much spam going on. But there's networking and AMWA meetings and making connections. A lot of people that are MDs have academic connections that they haven't thought of. They have hospitals, in the academic institutions there's medical communications. So all those places, that's a warm connection that you should try to reach out to, to get your first clients.
John: Okay, great. Now let me ask you this. I ask most of my guests this question. I think it applies to our interview here today and maybe a little different from the one we talked about in terms of the personality and so forth. But can you recall any maybe major mistakes that a fledgling physician writers have made? You know, as they're trying to advance this career, things they should avoid?
Emma: Well you know the beautiful thing about getting into this is there's no downside. It's not like you're buying huge pieces of equipment or ... There's no risk. Most doctors are like, "Well, what about the litigious side? What about the errors and omissions?"
Emma: And I'm like, you know, there's never- and I jinx myself. But there's never really been a lawsuit against medical writers. It's not the same because you've got several layers of people checking your work and ultimately a thought leader, a medical thought leader would be kind of their name is on a lot of it. So. But anyway, so big mistakes. The biggest mistake, the general mistake that I see that is so easy to avoid, the thing that drives me crazy that I see among some writers is that they don't follow the directions. All you need to do is follow the directions.
So, you've got your medical knowledge, your writing ability, and then your brain, which is going to be important in medical writing. And then just following what the client wants. Like you got to find out what the client wants. Sometimes they don't always tell you properly, but you need to get a sample of what it is they're looking for. Ask questions. And I guess when you're starting out you think, "Well maybe this is a stupid question and I shouldn't be asking it."
But yeah, just follow the directions, including down to the font that's used, whatever. And try to think of what your customer needs. And I've written ... I've made the same mistake, like I've written the wrong piece because I didn't get the right angle on it and then I've had to redo it. So that's no fun.
John: No, that's really good. I hadn't even thought about that, but as you were discussing that, I remember I do some editing for a CME provider. They provide manuscripts and then they give CME credit if you complete a quiz or something. But in any event, I asked them about writing for them. I had never actually written for them, but I was like editing and I was kind of reviewing it from the standpoint of accreditation because I've been involved with CME accreditation. And they said, "Okay, I we'll just send you the author guidelines."
And they sent me this four-page document and I said, wow. I mean it was very detailed, but I can see how, if I just didn't pay attention and sent something in, it's like, hold on, we told you it can't look like that, you know?
Emma: Right. Exactly. And I will say too, this is an important point for clinicians going into medical writing. When you say you're an MD, I don't know what this is like, but I would imagine, when you say you're an MD, people are like, "Wow."
There's a wow factor to it and you have a certain respect that you garner because you've obviously gone through medical school and MD and everything. And when you say you're a medical writer, people don't really know what that is. And you lose that wow factor, and it's dull, honestly. I don't think it's dull, but people find it dull. You don't talk about medical writing, they don't even know what that is. So when you transitioned over from being an MD to a medical writer, there's that. There's a disconnect. But being a medical writer you don't have to deal with patients. You can work your own hours, you can make just as much money as a doctor. You know, many benefits. So that's the tradeoff.
John: The other's downsides of being a practicing physician and any career. But yeah, I would think that people that go into it, they're definitely looking at those upsides. The flexibility, the managing their own time. Maybe like you said, it's a freelance, it's your own business. So there's definitely some positives there once you ... But it takes time I'm sure, to build that portfolio to build the clients that are coming back maybe for repeat business.
Emma: Yeah. So everybody that hires a medical writer, most everybody, is going to need a need that person again or need that service again, which is great. So that's a good part about the business. I've seen people get really busy, especially with work, the really good people that write for us. We just put more, lots of work on them because they happen to fit what we need and they just are off and running in like three months, a month, like immediately. And so it doesn't have to take a long time to get, it depends how hard you work, you know?
John: No, that's good to know because I think some physicians are thinking, "Well it's going to be a year or two before I get to a point where I really have that consistent income."
Emma: Doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be.
John: Well I know you've been teaching this course for a while, but I understand that you're kind of relaunching it now. I'm sure you do this every once in a while. So you've got a webinar coming up that's free. What's that about?
Emma: Yeah. Thank you for mentioning that. So October 25th, which I think will be after when this podcast comes out. So that's great. October 25th, Thursday at 2:00 PM. I'm giving a ... Let's see. It's called Freelance Medical Writer: A Lucrative Work-From-Home Career Choice. It's a free webinar. It's going to be about 45 minutes or so. You can ask questions and then I'll tell you at the end a little bit more about the six-week course if you're interested in that.
And let's see, the best way to sign up to that is to go to the website which is 6weekcourse.com. And check it out. Just click on that to register. It's free and that's about it. Ask any questions you want.
John: We'll definitely put that in the show notes. So there'll be a link right there that they can link to and get signed up for that. If they have any interest in writing as a potential career, I think that'd be probably be about the quickest way to learn. What's going to be the content of the webinar?
Emma: Let's see what I put on my little notes here. It is ... okay. So what skills and background needed for freelance medical writing? So what's about that. And then what types of clients and work can you get? And then how much can you make? And what's it like?
So, I cover those things.
John: Awesome. That's good. That would pretty much answer their questions and if they had any, reservation, they might be able to get past it. I mean part of it is just the fear of trying something new. So if you can get access to something like that and answer their questions.
Emma: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, it is a big deal I think. Especially for clinicians they've had the support of their friends and family to go through medical school and now they've got this great career and why would they possibly want to throw that away to do something like set up their own writing business? What is that? So yeah, there's a lot of reservations for a lot of people, but you got to be happy, right? You've got to have the life that you want.
John: Yeah. No, you have to do a job that, you know, brings you some joy and happiness. And if you're burnt out or you're just ... The thing is, some of us decided to go into medicine when we're basically young adults or teenagers and then we find out 15 years later, well maybe it wasn't really what I wanted to do. So there's lots of different options and medical writing is a good one.
Emma: Yeah. And you know, the MD is just such a great degree to have for ... Like I have a PhD and I'll never know about the clinical side and I've written about medicine. But yeah, to have that MD is very helpful.
John: Absolutely. That's very encouraging. What else would you like ... What the other advice or comments or anything else you want to tell us about your business? Easy way to get a hold of you?
Emma: So my email's on my 6 week course website, but definitely you can reach out also through LinkedIn if you're interested, if you're on LinkedIn. I'm trying to think ... Words of parting advice. I mean if you do seriously want to make a transition, definitely you can just try to take on a little writing work somehow, if you can get that, I don't know. And see if you actually enjoy it. Because I have people come through the course that, they thought they would enjoy it, but that turns out it's not for them. So that's also good to find that out before you, you know, may completely quit your job and, and go set up a new business. Definitely try to try it out if you can.
John: That sounds like a good idea. I know there's a subset of physicians that just, I think, like to write and so it definitely they will be able to have lots of opportunities to do that before jumping in. So. Well, I really appreciate all the information you've given us today Emma. It's been really interesting.
Emma: Yeah.
John: I know there's a whole cohort of my listeners that are interested in writing because I get occasional emails and comments, so I think they'll get a lot out of what you've told us today and if they have any further interest, they should go to a 6weekcourse.com and follow up and attend the webinar. It'll be very informational.
Emma: Great. Well thank you so much. I really appreciate being given the opportunity to talk about it and wish you the best of luck, and your listeners too. That's great.
John: Thanks a lot. Well with that, I guess I'll say goodbye.
Emma: Bye. Thanks so much.
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